lpope Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've heard way too many times that 16m is a joke, especially for DPS because damage output is so high. Healers can kill adds while DPS stays on boss... Do you guys really want 1 million crits and 600k hp? 16 man is a joke compared to 8 man because you have 10 dps / 2 tanks / 4 heals compared to 4 dps / 2 tanks / 2 heals. You essentially have 20% more dps, so yes it's going to be easier. And for NiM mode DF / DP, the Nightmare buff is now gone so the heal requirement is back to HM levels but you are overgeared for it if you've started picking up Dread Master stuff. And in no way are we at the 1 million crit, 600k HP levels. We are talking about lvl 60 dps being what should be about 4700 dps being brought back to 4200 dps and heal crits going from what should be 14,000 back to 10,000. And IMO, the dps levels are inflated a little bit because of the recent buffs to dps like Pyro PT, Madness Assassin, and the like. Not because they got the gear wrong, but like anything else BW does, they buff / nerf things way too much rather than doing very small incremental adjustments and tweaking them more often. Smaller changes more often would fix a lot of these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) 16 man is a joke compared to 8 man because you have 10 dps / 2 tanks / 4 heals compared to 4 dps / 2 tanks / 2 heals. You only need 1 tank and 1 healer for 8m. In fact you only need 4 players for some bosses. Edited November 4, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) And hopefully DDs learn how to play their role, again. Not just blame healer/tank for not doing DDs role. Like you, I got all kinds of hopes for this game but some of the more current design moves baffle me. Leveling up may be a illusion for you, its mostly fun for me, but thats besides the point Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking fun but I'm also not fooled into thinking I needed to level up just so BW can bring me back to to where I was at 55. IT could be fun and entertaining if just the story planets were released. Doesn't need the leveling really. I will need more proof then you claiming that lvl 60 in BIS 198 gear post 3.0 <= lvl 55 in BIS 186 gear pre 3.0 This is from the livestream: Q: Can you explain lower damage at level 60 A: If you are at 186 gear at 55, when you login your DPS will come down. If you equip the 198 gear and be level 60, your DPS will be similar to current 55s with 186 gear. SNIP..... None of that matter because you are getting exactly what BW is giving you. You are being nerfed. You are going to see less DPS when 3.0 comes out and you will "level up" and get 198 gear to get back to where you were at level 55 pre-3.0. Thats BW's goal. Edited November 4, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You only need 1 tank and 1 healer for 8m. In fact you only need 4 players for some bosses. Yes, some fights can be done with only 1 tank and 1 dps geared tank with a shield and only 1 healer on some fights. That is an exception, not the rule. I don't think I would want to try and do HM / NiM Bestia or Brontes with only 1 tank and 1 healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 This is from the livestream: Q: Can you explain lower damage at level 60 A: If you are at 186 gear at 55, when you login your DPS will come down. If you equip the 198 gear and be level 60, your DPS will be similar to current 55s with 186 gear. That's from Dulfy's notes, not from actual stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) That's from Dulfy's notes, not from actual stream. Who do you think answered? How do you think she got her answer? Edited November 4, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallwyn Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 This is from the livestream: Q: Can you explain lower damage at level 60 A: If you are at 186 gear at 55, when you login your DPS will come down. If you equip the 198 gear and be level 60, your DPS will be similar to current 55s with 186 gear. I will have to watch it again, as i guess i missed it three times by now. Still, this is not proof. It may be a poorly formed explanation for all i know. Reading your "paraphrase" clearly makes me feel that way. After i crunch my numbers tonight, i will be more capable of forming an opinnion how big of a "nerf" this really is. I have yet to see any "numbers" from your side of the argument. But in the end, only when ppl gear up into 198 BIS gear and start parsing their damage will anyone be able to claim one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I will have to watch it again, as i guess i missed it three times by now. Still, this is not proof. It may be a poorly formed explanation for all i know. Reading your "paraphrase" clearly makes me feel that way. After i crunch my numbers tonight, i will be more capable of forming an opinnion how big of a "nerf" this really is. I have yet to see any "numbers" from your side of the argument. If your in beta Iwould not advise posting anything in that manner. Just FYI.... Thats from Dulfy's Q&A with BW. I highly doubt they are all lying. But in the end, only when ppl gear up into 198 BIS gear and start parsing their damage will anyone be able to claim one way or the other. In the end, BW is nerfing your DPS at 60 to be near equal to what you would be doing now in full 186 at 55. There are not many with that gear set level. Everyone will feel the crunch come 3.0 - Some will feel it more than others. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Who do you think answered? How do you think she got her answer? Some of us prefer to hear information straight from the source, not basing everything off of a one sentence cliff note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Some of us prefer to hear information straight from the source, not basing everything off of a one sentence cliff note. Where do you think she got her answer? It's called the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallwyn Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 If your in beta Iwould not advise posting anything in that manner. Just FYI.... Im not part of the Beta. As i explained before, all my info is directly from the last BW stream about "general changes coming to combat in 3.0". They opened up the character screen, hovered the mouse over the MH weapon and over Accuracy, Surge and Crit. Thats my source. And from seeing the mods on the MH i can easilly figure out how to build BIS gear with. Its not that hard actually. Obviously i have no clue as to what stats/proccs the new Relics will have nor do i have an idea about the earpiece/implant stats. Thats why i will use 186 gear for those slots. Should get me close enough. Thats from Dulfy's Q&A with BW. I highly doubt they are all lying. So what, i tell alot of things when the day is long... I never said anyone is lying, i only indicated that this may be a malformed explanation. In the end, BW is nerfing your DPS at 60 to be near equal to what you would be doing now in full 186 at 55. There are not many with that gear set level. Everyone will feel the crunch come 3.0 - Some will feel it more than others. It's as simple as that. Im sorry to say, but you seemed more determined to propagate your "message" then to discuss this rationally based on observations and facts. I wont be responding to your posts untill i do my math. Till then, have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Im not part of the Beta. As i explained before, all my info is directly from the last BW stream about "general changes coming to combat in 3.0". They opened up the character screen, hovered the mouse over the MH weapon and over Accuracy, Surge and Crit. Thats my source. And from seeing the mods on the MH i can easilly figure out how to build BIS gear with. Its not that hard actually. Obviously i have no clue as to what stats/proccs the new Relics will have nor do i have an idea about the earpiece/implant stats. Thats why i will use 186 gear for those slots. Should get me close enough. That will get you close if there were no other changes in the system. We already know that we lost the 3% accuracy from our trees and I believe they said that accuracy rating was getting buffed slightly to compensate. How much is unknown, so we don't know much power are we are going to lose to get back to 100% accuracy. You also have to factor in the new abilities and / or changes to base damage on existing abilities which hasn't been fully divulged yet. So doing the math with what you know now, is probably not going to be all that accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Nothing wrong with dps? Just what 2 Marauders can do: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/c/5401305 Rob Hinkle and Eric Musco. (I think they're pretty high up in the company). FF to 3:00 FROM THEIR STREAM AND THEIR MOUTH: "Players at 60 will be back to where they are at 55". That's not conjecture. That's not lying. That's the Devs / Math guys talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/c/5401305 Rob Hinkle and Eric Musco. (I think they're pretty high up in the company). FF to 3:00 FROM THEIR STREAM AND THEIR MOUTH: "Players at 60 will be back to where they are at 55". That's not conjecture. That's not lying. That's the Devs / Math guys talking. this isn't even a reading comprehension exercise, not sure what it is... ppl in denial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) this isn't even a reading comprehension exercise, not sure what it is... ppl in denial? So, only thing that matters is big numbers? Edited November 4, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Nothing wrong with dps? Just what 2 Marauders can do: Seriously? Newsflash, I can solo lvl 45 heroics at lvl 50 with no companion. Hell I can even solo lvl 50 HM FPs @ 55. Being vastly over-leveled and / or over-geared for content isn't a measure of anything. Now if you can find someone 2 manning Nefra SM in 162s or 168s (no videos from when the exploit existed, plz), I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Seriously? Newsflash, I can solo lvl 45 heroics at lvl 50 with no companion. Hell I can even solo lvl 50 HM FPs @ 55. Being vastly over-leveled and / or over-geared for content isn't a measure of anything. Now if you can find someone 2 manning Nefra SM in 162s or 168s (no videos from when the exploit existed, plz), I'd be more inclined to agree with you. How can two Marauders be overleveled for Athiss or Hammer Station? Hint: watch all the videos in the list before saying something "smart". Edited November 4, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 So, only thing that matters is big numbers? ppl in denial and ppl trolling and ppl pretending they were just trolling to save face (lol) - mmo msg boards have it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Today , 04:37 PM | #389 EDIT REPORT POST QUOTE http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/c/5401305 Rob Hinkle and Eric Musco. (I think they're pretty high up in the company). FF to 3:00 FROM THEIR STREAM AND THEIR MOUTH: "Players at 60 will be back to where they are at 55". That's not conjecture. That's not lying. That's the Devs / Math guys talking. ************ Posting again so we don't lose focus or get off track. EDIT: ppl in denial. Sad but true. Edited November 4, 2014 by Lotharofxev Forgot something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) ppl in denial and ppl trolling and ppl pretending they were just trolling to save face (lol) - mmo msg boards have it all I'm going to go with denial. I think gamers just don't want to believe they are at 55 doing "X" . An expansions comes out and they are immediately nerfed. They will spend the next 5 levels getting to 60, thinking and creating this illusion of leveling up but all they did was get back to where they were at 55 before the patch. And all done so BW can keep DF/DP difficult to play for all level 60 players and give them an alternate way to get gear (probably through comms not actual gear). I refuse to believe BW was so incompetent that DPS was to high and somehow they let it slip by them because if that was true, how in the hell can I believe they will get it right now when they are using the same system of metrics that failed them in balance to start with. And if it's being done to hinder power creep, how does it actually fix anything? Is BW going to keep us at level 55 forever but persist in the illusion of leveling up? Next expansion is level 65 but in 4.0 BW is going to reset you below 55 again and you will level to 65 to get back where you were. That way old ops stay relevant. It doesn't actually fix anything but it does allow them to keep those 2, tired and worn out, nearly a year old OPs in play. Edited November 4, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Posting again so we don't lose focus or get off track. You're still ignoring few important parts of that stream but it's fine. Keep generating entertainment for me and few others. Edited November 4, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I will have to watch it again, as i guess i missed it three times by now. Still, this is not proof. It may be a poorly formed explanation for all i know. Reading your "paraphrase" clearly makes me feel that way. After i crunch my numbers tonight, i will be more capable of forming an opinnion how big of a "nerf" this really is. I have yet to see any "numbers" from your side of the argument. But in the end, only when ppl gear up into 198 BIS gear and start parsing their damage will anyone be able to claim one way or the other.abilities and skills have changed so much within specs that we are still a ways away from knowing optimal gear/stat configs...and specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You're still ignoring few important parts of that stream but it's fine. Keep generating entertainment for me and few others. Really? Why don't you list some of the more relevant parts to the discussion then? We showed you how DPS is being nerfed and a very plausible reason as to why but I still bet you don't believe it. So , help us out on these important parts that are relevant to the discussion at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 There are none so blind as those who will not see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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