J_Fred Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 And what would a guild bank need 7.5 mil for anyways? Guilds who really wanted a ship/stronghold should already have them by now. I'm just not seeing the need for so many credits in a guildbank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'll say it again - I am 1000% against having guilds get credits generated out of nowhere. Take a large-size guild (say, 150 - 200 players?) that runs endgame content on a regular basis. I can whip up about a million credits on my own doing endgame stuff over the weekend on a single character. Now, even 5% of that just being generated and entering the economy - 50,000 credits - would be fairly sizeable. Now, multiply that by 150. 7,500,000 credits being generated by a guild for free. In a weekend. With no skin off anyone's back. I'm more opposed to the "credit boon" than I am to an optional credit tax. At least with the tax, you're not having even more credits entering the game to somewhat curb inflation, as that 50,000 or 7,500,000 wouldn't be in addition to the 1 million each player made - it'd be a part of it. Be against it all you like - I'm 100000% FOR it. Free credits for the guild because running a guild isn't a timeless task. Guilds are a good thing for the game and guilds should be rewarded for improving the game for their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 To answer the idea where it would be a guild perk (automatic to guild, not distributable to the player (i.e. player gains nothing), and a bonus Credit earning)... again... NO. Money generated from nowhere is not a good idea... devalues the credits out there... inflation of costs, etc. We don't need more credits in the game... prices can be outrageous as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 XP and credits are two different things entirely, unless I can now take all the XP my level 55s have earned since hitting the cap and can now buy that Cathar Honor Sword I've been dying to get. You're missing the point. It is a bonus to being part of a guild, just like the credit would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 And what would a guild bank need 7.5 mil for anyways? Guilds who really wanted a ship/stronghold should already have them by now. I'm just not seeing the need for so many credits in a guildbank. I could see a use for large amounts of cash like that in a guild bank, but used responsibly. Run an event - open to even non-guildies - and have cash prizes or use the cash for actual item prizes. Free advertising, and a chance to get some new recruits into your guild - and if you don't have a guild ship, then it's a way to get a guild ship. Of course, it won't help if someone decides they're going to clean out the build bank and leave because they saw it only as a crop ripe for harvesting, but that's a risk every guild takes that has a bank with someone in a position to take things out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Money generated from nowhere is not a good idea... devalues the credits out there... inflation of costs, etc. Ummmm....this is a game...ALL credits are generated out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 No we don't raise those costs. And to individual players, credits are easy to grind. Guilds are dependent on donations...this would be a tiny reward for having a guild, something I believe is very important to MMOs. I don't think it's stupid at all. You are right, credits are easy to grind. Any competent player at max level should be able to support their own repair costs (if a PvEer), nano stims, and gear. Why do you feel guilds are dependent on donations? For what exactly? I was a GM for over a year. Outside of purchasing two guild tabs with my own funds, there was nothing we needed additional credits for. All of my raiders and pvpers were self sustainable. This is beginning to sound like an overreaching GM looking to get paid if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrica Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 What in the hell would a guild need to have a fee for? other than buying a guild bank which is about 1.6 mil for two tabs from what I remember, I don't see any reason for guilds to be charging people for anything. Sounds like someone wants to line their pockets on the backs of their guildees. As noted above, such a system would be exploited to no end by large guilds. guild repairs, extra guild tabs, stronghold and flagship come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ummmm....this is a game...ALL credits are generated out of nowhere. Not exactly Tux, you know what I meant... the guild did nothing to earn the credits... therefore its money for nothing. As a GM myself, I understand your point behind it taking work (sometimes a lot of work) to run a guild. But GM's choose that... as a part of their game play experience. If the guild needs money there are other ways, that are a guild experience. Run dailies together... etc etc etc If the guild wants to expand their ship, ~5 Mill per door... its just another guild activity that the guild can do as a team to earn the credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I could see a use for large amounts of cash like that in a guild bank, but used responsibly. Run an event - open to even non-guildies - and have cash prizes or use the cash for actual item prizes. Free advertising, and a chance to get some new recruits into your guild - and if you don't have a guild ship, then it's a way to get a guild ship. Of course, it won't help if someone decides they're going to clean out the build bank and leave because they saw it only as a crop ripe for harvesting, but that's a risk every guild takes that has a bank with someone in a position to take things out of it. I would have expected every guild that wanted to have a guild ship and put forth an effort into attaining one would have it by now. Cash prize events are optional, and should be funded by donations, not forcing everyone in a guild to pay into it. The point I am trying to make is that there is no cost or fee outside of the guildship, (which tbh is not difficult to grind or craft your way to 50 mil creds with a few guildees) that would hinder you or anyone from experiencing the game's content. Guilds have survived this long without taxes. I'd say that is evidence enough that this system is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You're missing the point. It is a bonus to being part of a guild, just like the credit would be. lets do the math. lets say I earn 100k a day doing "ops and dailies". Lets put my repair costs at 10% from operations a few wipes here and there adds up. Currently I take that 100k donate 10% to the guild, I keep 90% and GB has 10% now anyone can use that, in general I will get less than the 10% out since others will probably not put any in, but that is my choice to share. In the end I end up with no more credits than what I "earned' and the economy says the same as is (current credit sinks remain the same and same "growth" can be predicted) since 100k - 10% guild tax + 10% guild repair = 100k With guild tax, I make the same 100k + an extra 10% goes into the guild bank. With the same 10% repair costs I will have an extra 10%. Meaning the current credit sinks and such will be off by that same % and more credits will enter the economy than current sinks were designed to balance. 100k + 10% guild tax + 10% guild repair = 110k SO I effectively gain 10% free credits by doing nothing but using guild repair. Now, in the past, the amount of credits was basically passed from one person to the next so the total in the economy was stable, In this case, an extra 10% goes into the economy and nothing is there to show for it. This would be essentially the same thing as removing my 10% repair costs or other form of credit sink from the game. It in essence ADDS more into the game with no counter balance of removing them. Would you be all for giving a 10% extra drop rate to people? Does this not make a guild a requirement to play since you will have 10% LESS income out of a guild than in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 guild repairs, extra guild tabs, stronghold and flagship come to mind Guild repairs are not necessary to the existence of a guild or their participation in end game activities. Players should be paying for their own repairs, period. Guild tabs again, are not necessary for a guild's existence. That being said, two tabs should cost roughly 1.6 mil, if you have to tax your way to that amount of credits your doing it wrong. Flagship is the only guild feature that is required to participate in a segment of a game event, this one being Conquest (there are personal conquests out there for those who do not have guilds or a ship). If a guild has enough members to be able to post on the conquest leaderboards, it should not be difficult for them to grind the 50 mil credits needed for the ship's purchase. Small guilds, while they may want to have a ship, do not actually NEED them, as they won't be able to compete with the larger guilds that dominate the leaderboards. As I am sure is common knowledge by now, if you don't post in the top 10 of a planet you don't get the guild rewards. If you don't post in the first spot you don't get your conq title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You're missing the point. It is a bonus to being part of a guild, just like the credit would be. You're missing the point of how it would impact non-guildies and (overall) every single player in the game. Injecting XP into the game is relatively low-impact, as after a certain point, you can't do anything with XP. 1 XP is worth as much as 1,000,000,000 XP. It can't buy you gear. It can't buy you medpacks. It can't buy you a repair on your gear. It can't get you that really neat weapon from the GTN. It can't level you past the current level cap. Credits, though? If you inject a bunch of credits into the economy - even more than there are right now - the cost of literally everything will go up. Who will be the least impacted? People in those large guilds that get massive credit amounts generated by tons of people running Makeb over and over. Who gets impacted the most? The people who are just starting out, guildless, or with a single level 55 guy. They're stuck making "base values" of credits. Doesn't sound so bad, until you consider the massive price increase of even the most basic crafting materials when Conquests were implemented. Costs of everything in the game will go up even more than they are right now, because there's not enough credit sinks in the game to offset the current generation of credits in the game. The answer to "there's too many credit sinks in the game" is not "make more credits" at this point. It's "spend more wisely." There's enough credits and ways to make credits in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sorry too many numbers and normally the word tax means... Tax but if he said free money for guilds from players then I'd be like OH YA!!! But they would never do that with all the credit sinks they've been doing. This Reaver is an idiot... Wait that's ME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 connection with the conquest, which caused a great waste of game currency many guilds, we also no exception. We are already beginning to experience problems with replenishment GB , we do not have enough credits. Were you hacked? Did the amount in your guild bank suddenly decrease with no log explanation? Or did you spend 50 million on a guild ship, find out (after the fact) that you're never going to be # 1 due to guild size (or some other variable) and spend millions on crafting in that discovery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You, like most people, miss the whole point of taxing. The palyers loose nothing, they pick up 100 credits that goes to their pocket while the 10% guild tax generates 10 credits that go into the guild bank. Makes sense? If not....well, I frown on you sorry... as long as when I get 100 credit drops they dont get 10 credits of that leaving me with 90 I am ok with that. If you take money that I earned without my permission though, no. I have never gotten anything from my guild bank and the guild ship gets put in orbit around a planet tha has no bonuses for what I do. I see no need to bleed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 as long as when I get 100 credit drops they dont get 10 credits of that leaving me with 90 I am ok with that. If you take money that I earned without my permission though, no. I have never gotten anything from my guild bank and the guild ship gets put in orbit around a planet tha has no bonuses for what I do. I see no need to bleed me. sure, just increase all credit sinks by the same 10%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it would be far better to implement a system of tithes, where the player, not the guild, is in control of how much is donated from drops directly to the guild. Yes, it should be a percentage of money earned. It would be purely a convenience and save players from having to walk to a guild bank. It should be at the player's discretion how much and when they donate. I do not support players generating extra money on top of their earnings for their guild. I do not support guilds demanding money or getting money for nothing from their members. What works in other games would destroy the economy here. If a player chooses to donate some of their own money to the guild, that is fine. I would support making that process a little easier. But I would not support a tax or a system that unbalances the current credit generating system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 No. No taxes. A better solution would be like in WoW - you loot 5% credits EXTRA which go to the guild bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 lets do the math. *made up number and stuff* Why would it be 10% first of all? And so freaking what?! A few guilds have 2-5% more $ than they do now...it's not game breaking and chances are they'd use those funds for guild repairs and other guild activities. A GOOD cause! I'm fully in support of a way to fund guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 sure, just increase all credit sinks by the same 10%... Sure, as long as that extra 10% only goes to guild banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sure, as long as that extra 10% only goes to guild banks. thats the problem, goes to the guild bank which can thus be used for repairs on my armor. Thus it is essentially a x% boost in my income with zero change in any of the credit sinks. It would be no different than dropping the repair costs by some x% in the end I have access to more funds being in a guild that I normally wouldn't . If not in a guild I have 100% income rate, in a guild I have 100% + GB% since I have full access to the GB. Where as currently GB takes from one and gives to another (donation) what this does is give EVERYONE a fixed % increase in available credits with no change in current credit sinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In connection with the conquest, which caused a great waste of game currency many guilds, we also no exception. We are already beginning to experience problems with replenishment GB , we do not have enough credits. I think the part in bold is key as to why guild tax requests are popping up fairly frequently now. Well there is a much simpler solution for guilds who are draining their reserves due to that "win by any means necessary" approach towards conquest. Don't buy 580,824 mats to craft 16,245 invasion junk for the next couple of weeks and settle for #5, 8 or even 10 as opposed to #1 while you replenish your guild bank through existing means. There are 52 weeks in a year so taking a few of those off from conqnest in order to refill guild resources is really not that big of a deal. Life will go on just fine. No one forced any guild to blow their wad of credits on trying to conquer planets. That is a conscious decision players made for their guilds so living with the consequences is just part of the equation. Asking for the guild revenue system (which has worked just fine since day one) to be changed just to support that reckless spending habit is not a reasonable request by any stretch of the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's too bad the OP can't convince his guild to keep his/her guild funded, but other guilds are not having that problem. This suggests that the problem may be the OP's guild, not the lack of a guild tax. Good guilds do not need a tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 thats the problem, goes to the guild bank which can thus be used for repairs on my armor. Thus it is essentially a x% boost in my income with zero change in any of the credit sinks. How exactly is that a problem? It's a miniscule reward to a guild for what they do. Guilds are good for this game. Guilds form raid groups, ranked PvP groups, un-ranked PvP groups, they craft the latest items because they run the high end content, they sell mats that others might otherwise never get, they write guides, they teach new players ops/FPs/WZs, they strengthen the community in every way. There's absolutely no reason in my mind why you shouldn't be able to reward a guild bank a few credits for the actions of their members. It would be a tiny perk, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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