Please, change the rules for "Needing" on gear.

[Lt-Snake]

So you'd rather have me do 1/2 the work I could on my main, just so you'd be able to accept that I beat your need roll?

 

C'mon, man...

 

sound like you are trolling at this point:p:p

[Loadsamunny]

So you'd rather have me do 1/2 the work I could on my main, just so you'd be able to accept that I beat your need roll?

 

C'mon, man...

 

And what about everyone else that immediately needs gear in the group? What about the Tank who is struggling to keep you and everyone else alive and would benefit greatly from a new pair of boots. Or the Healer struggling to keep the Tank alive who could get a lot more healing power out of an off-hand. You're saying that you would roll need on those items when they need them much more, RIGHT NOW, than your alts that you're not even playing at the moment?

[Halinalle]

Maelstrom Prison.

3x Consulars, 1x Smuggler

 

80% of gear that dropped was smuggler gear. I got most of it even though I didn't even "Need". But since I have 2 companions who use Cunning, I'm not complaining.

 

In how far does it make the run "smoother" when you need things that one of your alts can use (that currently does not contribute to the run) instead of letting the guy that is currently running with you and could use that item on the toon he is participating in the run at the very moment to gear it up take the item?

 

This. Maybe I'm stupid but that sure would make it even "smoother".

Edited October 28, 2014 by Halinalle

[KTap]

the whole point of running story mode is so undergeared people get better gear. if u come on your main with Bis gear and start needing on all the drop for your alt, how will the undergeared people get to where u are with your main{ in terms of being geared} if you take everything for you alt?? thus stealing their chance at performing better down the road..all for the sake of a smoother run for the moment.

 

What is wrong with you guys you're pretending like I have a better chance at the gear than you do or something

 

If I'm running story mode it's to get comms or gear for alts. What makes you think your character is more valuable than my alt?

 

Please answer this. Would you really rather have me need it on my alt, while doing significantly less to contribute?

[Loadsamunny]

Maelstrom Prison.

3x Consulars, 1x Smuggler

 

80% of gear that dropped was smuggler gear. I got most of it even though I didn't even "Need". But since I have 2 companions who use Cunning, I'm not complaining.

 

I don't mind when someone needs on something for an alt or a companion, as long as they ask first and make sure it's okay with the others. What Ktap is implying is that he doesn't do this, he just rolls need on ANYTHING his alts can use without even asking of the rest of the group is okay with it, even if someone else in the group needs it more right away?

 

Which is shameful. Doubly so right now because of the influx of fresh 55's without any gear.

[Loadsamunny]

What is wrong with you guys you're pretending like I have a better chance at the gear than you do or something

 

If I'm running story mode it's to get comms or gear for alts. What makes you think your character is more valuable than my alt?

 

Please answer this. Would you really rather have me need it on my alt, while doing significantly less to contribute?

 

If you're rolling need for an alt, that means you don't actually NEED the gear right this second, because you're not playing the alt. Group members DO need the gear right away because they are playing the character they're trying to gear. It's a matter of priority and etiquette. Immediate group members get priority, alts get secondary consideration. Ask any organized raid team from any guild and you'll get an answer like the one I gave you.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Loadsamunny

[KTap]

I don't mind when someone needs on something for an alt or a companion, as long as they ask first and make sure it's okay with the others. What Ktap is implying is that he doesn't do this, he just rolls need on ANYTHING his alts can use without even asking of the rest of the group is okay with it, even if someone else in the group needs it more right away?

 

Which is shameful. Doubly so right now because of the influx of fresh 55's without any gear.

 

I said alt, not alts. I would be running on one of my alts behalf, since they are undergeared and a detriment to the group.

 

You're saying that me gearing an alt while making your run more efficient is shameful. That is ridiculous

 

I'm done in this thread, if you guys don't get it yet, you never will.

Edited October 28, 2014 by KTap

[Loadsamunny]

I said alt, not alts. I would be running on one of my alts behalf, since they are undergeared and a detriment to the group.

 

You're saying that me gearing an alt while making your run more efficient is shameful. That is ridiculous

 

I'm done in this thread, if you guys don't get it yet, you never will.

 

KTap is confirmed troll. Do not converse with him any further.

[Halinalle]

I said alt, not alts. I would be running on my one of my alts behalf, since they are undergeared and a detriment to the group.

 

You're saying that me gearing an alt while making your run more efficient is shameful. That is ridiculous

 

I'm done in this thread, if you guys don't get it yet, you never will.

 

Because most of us have alts with all 4 main stats that would mean only one thing: you Need on everything.

Would Master Looter be better choice for you? I know it gets you on many ignore lists but at least you have 100% chance to get that gear for you alt.

[Lt-Snake]

What is wrong with you guys you're pretending like I have a better chance at the gear than you do or something

 

If I'm running story mode it's to get comms or gear for alts. What makes you think your character is more valuable than my alt?

 

Please answer this. Would you really rather have me need it on my alt, while doing significantly less to contribute?

 

yes becuz next week you'll do better since u got an upgrade:p

[Lt-Snake]

KTap is confirmed troll. Do not converse with him any further.

 

Comfirmed™

[Turajin]

I said alt, not alts.

Doesn't matter if you have 1 alt or 1000 - if the toon you are currently using has not use for that item, but a group member has use for that item on toon he is using at at the moment, you should not need that item. You may greed, and if that player that actually might need it doesn't need it (and thus picks greed, too), then you get you're chance to get that item for your alt.

 

And it does not help make the run "smoother" because you might keep a toon running with you from getting an item that he needs at the very moment to improve his skills and thus make the run even more smoother.

 

You're saying that me gearing an alt while making your run more efficient is shameful. That is ridiculous

No... ridiculous is putting your alt (that does nothing for the current run) above the player that actually does the run and actually needs the item for the toon he is doing the run with. Well, no, it's even more than ridiculous - it's selfish anti-social behaviour.

 

You want the items for your alt? Do the run with you're alt. Or ask politely wether it is ok do collect stuff for you're alt. But stop your "I make it smoother by using this toon instead of that toon, so I the allmoighty godsent supermegahyperuberplayer have the right to need on everything I want while everyone helse should be glad enough he doesn't have to pay to bath in my shining light of allmightyness"-BS-blahblah...

 

I'm done in this thread, if you guys don't get it yet, you never will.

Well, I say everyone is getting it except you...

[HBCentaurion]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

 

I think you guys are talking past each other, and that you need to differentiate between:

1. Loot from Flashpoints
   
2. Loot (tokens) from Operations
   

 

With regards to (1), I agree that you only Need for the character you are on and Greed for companion / alts.

 

For (2), I agree with Ktap. In an HM / NiM Operation I would rather have a BiS character that needs for alt then to have that undergeared alt in the raid. I don't know what server you guys are on, but on TRE the norm for HM / NiM PUGs is one token piece each (bracers / belts / implants are an exemption) independent on how geared the character you are on is.

 

 

EDIT: Are you guys serious that you would prefer an undergeared alt in oriconion gear for an operation rather than a BiS 186 geared main that needs for the said alt? :confused:

Edited October 28, 2014 by HBCentaurion

[Lt-Snake]

I said alt, not alts. I would be running on one of my alts behalf, since they are undergeared and a detriment to the group.

 

You're saying that me gearing an alt while making your run more efficient is shameful. That is ridiculous

 

I'm done in this thread, if you guys don't get it yet, you never will.

 

a successful troll thread well done :p:eek:

[Divona]

OP.

 

This is common issue with most MMO's and you cant have perfect system in place to please all players playing group content and figuring out who can need and who shouldn't. I haven't got issues lately in FP's. All those who needed something also really helped their gearing. I have only needed few times for alt BUT i asked before doing that from group. And if i see someone needs that gear in group being quite fresh level 55 i dont even bother to ask or roll need for that obviously.

 

I have seen very few ninjas on my server for my entire playtime since beta in this game. I think it depends on server and attitude in general of servers. I'm in EU btw

[Turajin]

Are you guys serious that you would prefer an undergeared alt in oriconion gear for an operation rather than a BiS 186 geared main that needs for the said alt?

This still doesn't make sense to me: the alt that is not used in the OP is completely irrelevant. Player A has one toon he uses at the moment, player B also has a toon (of a different class) he uses at the moment. A mob drops an item player B can use on the toon he is currently using, and that could improve hat character. If it does, that player has the 'right' to need on the item (because he does actually need it to improve this specific toon he is currently using), and everyone else either greeds or skips. If he doesn't need it (because his gear, or at least the item at hand, is already as good or better than the item dropped), he'll greed too (or skips), and everyone who picked greed has the same chance of getting it.

 

I still don't understand of what concern that currently not used undergeared toon is.

[HBCentaurion]

So it is OK for you guys that I rock up in an operation in purple 156, doing crap DPS / eHPS - possibly leading to wipes and need on everything that drops, rather than coming on my BiS 186 main that does thrice the DPS / eHPS (leading to a much more smoother run) and Need tokens for my alt that I want to gear up?

 

I don't understand that logic.

Edited October 28, 2014 by HBCentaurion

[MeinChurro]

Maybe (at least for some gear) they are needing on gear to legacy swap to their alts?

 

I would rather have a better geared player needing for alts than that undergeared alt slowing us down and needing the gear.

 

I agree that this is a problem, but what you're suggesting isn't a good solution imo.

 

Maybe the people who are needing for their companions could just stop being lame... I'm such a dreamer

That is what I need for. If a guildmate or another player actually needs it more I will trade it to them. Otherwise, I need on stuff for alts/companions.

[Turajin]

So it is OK for you guys that I rock up in an operation in purple 156, doing crap DPS / eHPS - possibly leading to wipes and need on everything that drops, rather than coming on my BiS 186 main that does thrice the DPS / eHPS (leading to a much more smoother run) and Need tokens for my alt that I want to gear up?

 

I don't understand that logic.

But keeping everyone else form gearing up their mains just that you can gear up your alt(s) is more logic?

 

Again, we are talking about situations where one of the toons present needs that exact item because he has, so far, not everything geared up to 186 gear. Where is the logic in not letting someone who is participating and really does need the item to get it just so you can gear up some alt? You want to gear up your alt? Play it - or use your "everything on 186" in groups where everyone else is also "everything on 186". But when there is someone in your group who is not fully geared, that one has the right to get the stuff before ou picking for your alt(s).

[HBCentaurion]

But keeping everyone else form gearing up their mains just that you can gear up your alt(s) is more logic?

 

Again, we are talking about situations where one of the toons present needs that exact item because he has, so far, not everything geared up to 186 gear. Where is the logic in not letting someone who is participating and really does need the item to get it just so you can gear up some alt? You want to gear up your alt? Play it - or use your "everything on 186" in groups where everyone else is also "everything on 186". But when there is someone in your group who is not fully geared, that one has the right to get the stuff before ou picking for your alt(s).

 

But how do you know that character is his Main - especially in PUGs? Of course, guild runs are different and I'll pass on loot so a guildie can gear up his main.

 

Bottom line is that there is no difference (except for making things more difficult) between showing up in a raid with a 156 character and needing on everything or a 186 character needing for an alt . You are still needing on loot.

Edited October 28, 2014 by HBCentaurion

[Turajin]

But how do you know that character is his Main - especially in PUGs?

At least it is the toon he is currently using...

 

Bottom line is that there is no difference (except for making things more difficult) between showing up in a raid with a 156 character and needing on everything or a 186 character needing for an alt . You are still needing on loot.

Bottom line is the one showing up in a 156 character (which may be the only one toon he has, or the highest leveled/best equiped toon) obviously needs those items for the toon present, while the 186 guy doesn't need it for the present toon. That's all that matters. Wether there is an alt or some comp or some comp of an alt or some guy in the guild that knows someone who has and alt whos comp might need it doesn't matter. The toon at hand needs it, he has the right to klick "need". Everyone else, wether they intend to sell it, give it a comp, and alt or some other being, can klick on "greed". That is the only bottomline.

[Halinalle]

But how do you know that character is his Main - especially in PUGs? Of course, guild runs are different and I'll pass on loot so a guildie can gear up his main.

 

Bottom line is that there is no difference (except for making things more difficult) between showing up in a raid with a 156 character and needing on everything or a 186 character needing for an alt . You are still needing on loot.

 

That only leads to situations like this:

Shadow tank in 156/162 + Veracity implants/earpiece + 4 piece 146 set bonus gets kicked from SM CZ tFP because he is undergeared.

[LordArtemis]

I usually convince everyone to roll need at the onset of the run. This prevents any greed and gives everyone a fair chance at the loot roll.

 

I would like to see tokens drop instead that you could turn in for gear, but short of that I would just like to see the greed and need options removed....the best option, IMO, would be limiting your choices to only roll or pass.

[agamemnon-]

So it is OK for you guys that I rock up in an operation in purple 156, doing crap DPS / eHPS - possibly leading to wipes and need on everything that drops, rather than coming on my BiS 186 main that does thrice the DPS / eHPS (leading to a much more smoother run) and Need tokens for my alt that I want to gear up?

 

I don't understand that logic.

 

 

That low geared player can't gear up if others are needing on loot for a character they aren't playing at the moment. I don't get why that concept is difficult to understand.

 

We are heading down a Catch-22 road; you can't get gear unless you run this op, but you can't run this op unless you are geared.

 

Ive been in SM ops with a few 156 geared players. The general attitude has been things like "It's story mode, you'll be alright" and "well, this is your grand chance to geared up." In fact, that is how I got up to 180; being in groups that didn't mind a player with a few 156 pieces. I was contributing some before, but now I contribute far greater. Short term pains for long term gains.

[HoloTweed]

Maybe (at least for some gear) they are needing on gear to legacy swap to their alts?

 

I would rather have a better geared player needing for alts than that undergeared alt slowing us down and needing the gear.

 

I agree that this is a problem, but what you're suggesting isn't a good solution imo.

 

Maybe the people who are needing for their companions could just stop being lame... I'm such a dreamer

 

NEEDING should be for the played character ONLY, not for alts or companions or GTN. If someone wants a piece of gear for some other reason, they should ASK first. Almost every time I've seen someone ask, if another character didn't need the gear, everyone was fine with it.

 

Needing on non-character gear without a request gets a Kick vote from me every time. Don't even care if it's a Tank.