Wherein Ellie rethinks her reaction to concerns over 12xXP

[EllieAnne]

I admit it. Those of you that were concerned that with 12xXP people would level too fast and not know how to play their class . . . well I thought y'all were QQing about nothing. I mean most of us have leveled other toons - maybe not up to 55 but enough to know some basic DPS/Healing'Tanking skills right?

 

I owe you all an apology.

 

I ran KDY a couple of times last night and OMG I don't think most of my groupmates had any clue what to do. Do you want to talk about the group I filled in for who were at the end of the flashpoint who couldn't understand (even after I told them 3 times) that a DPS needs to hit the adds and not me who is a healer. How about the person building the ship that had no idea that there were clues to the puzzles so he just picked ones at random claiming he knew what to do. Or how about the second run where I had to DPS because the DPS was healing ME (remember I'm a healer). If I didn't start DPSing it would have been a circle-heals of ineffectualness. Actually a circle-heals might have been warranted as the group would scatter and pull mobs then try to run to another groupmate leading to yet another wipe.

Yes! Multiple wipes on KDY!

 

So I now agree with you. Maybe if this 12xXP only applied if you had a toon (maybe a toon in each faction) that had made it through Corellia then it wouldn't be so bad but if last night were any indication this 12xXP for noobs is leading to a lot of people who cannot play their class. Yes I said it! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS!!!

[tmblake]

They all need to read the other thread that gives a wonderful guide to the game mechanics. Because OMG they have no clue....But most players don't visit the forums, they just play the game. :/

[hadoken]

None of what you're describing is unique to this event, though. All that stuff was already happening

[branmakmuffin]

I ran KDY a couple of times last night and OMG I don't think most of my groupmates had any clue what to do. Do you want to talk about the group I filled in for who were at the end of the flashpoint who couldn't understand (even after I told them 3 times) that a DPS needs to hit the adds and not me who is a healer. How about the person building the ship that had no idea that there were clues to the puzzles so he just picked ones at random claiming he knew what to do. Or how about the second run where I had to DPS because the DPS was healing ME (remember I'm a healer). If I didn't start DPSing it would have been a circle-heals of ineffectualness. Actually a circle-heals might have been warranted as the group would scatter and pull mobs then try to run to another groupmate leading to yet another wipe.

Yes! Multiple wipes on KDY!

 

So I now agree with you. Maybe if this 12xXP only applied if you had a toon (maybe a toon in each faction) that had made it through Corellia then it wouldn't be so bad but if last night were any indication this 12xXP for noobs is leading to a lot of people who cannot play their class. Yes I said it! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS!!!

I have not had nearly as many experiences like you seem to have had. Usually it's just one person in a tactical who is severely undergered or unaware of the tactics required. For most tacticals, it's easy enough to cover for a "noob" (except maybe in Meltdown and Manaan). Maybe Kuat is more vulnerable to "noobishness." I never run Kuat at 55 unless GF "forces" me to do it for the daily bonus.

[Gomla]

Yeah, this is only because of fast levelling.

 

Nothing at all to do with terrible players.

 

None of what you described from the puzzle to the heals to DPS not doing what they were supposed to has anything to do with class mechanics.

 

Those were just terrible players, it wouldn't have mattered if they levelled quickly or slowly they would still be terrible players.

[Kalfear]

I admit it. Those of you that were concerned that with 12xXP people would level too fast and not know how to play their class . . . well I thought y'all were QQing about nothing. I mean most of us have leveled other toons - maybe not up to 55 but enough to know some basic DPS/Healing'Tanking skills right?

 

I owe you all an apology.

 

 

lol Elle, well its definately a bigger issue now but hardly a new issue

I run allot of flashpoints every day over multiple characters and trust me, in GF the knowledge for some players wasnt very high to begin with.

 

Once had a HM Flashpoint where a commando with 35k health hammer shot and self healed the entire flash point

When we asked him to do things like interupt or use other skills he was dumbfounded.

At first I just figured he bought account from someone

but after numberous other Flash points I started to blame KDY and xp boosts as the bigger issue.

 

12x xp just exaggerates that already existant issue 12 fold.

 

LOL yesterday I enter HM GF with my sage healer. Full 180 gears, has done hm and nightmare ops. First character I ever got to 50 in original game and I started at the start.

 

So I pop into HM and get HM Corperate Labs, and much to my chagrin my tank is at 27k health, 2 DPS are at 23-25k health

hmmmm, ok I say to myself, still doable if players knowledgeable of their classes

and the sentinel leaps ahead into first big fight

Tank clearly has no shield or absorb stats on his gear and health dropping like a rock

2 DPS have moved onto different targets spread out so now they all dropping and im almost outta force power to heal them

Tank goes down, just to much damage going on.

finish first fight and im out of power

Goto rez tank and sentinel at 35% health leaps into next fight

 

I let sentinel die intentionally and rez the tank, they kill the solo droid

 

Fight ends and I type

 

"Hey guys, I'm sorry but you just don't have the gear to be handling this hm flashpoint. Sorry but Im going to drop from group as not much sense going forward. 1 under geared person can be adjusted for but 3 under geared just to much to ask for"

 

silence for couple few seconds

 

Sentinel "you're just a terrible healer"

 

LOL and welcome to ignore! Yet another brain dead sentinel hits the ignore list. What a shocker

 

But this WHOLE ISSUE in this group could have been avoided if XP wasn't so easy and fast to get.

 

LOL, I did get a good laugh outta it though and a new story to tell folks about hehe.

GF is like Telemarketers, there is some good and cool folks but there is also a endless supply of idiots that become butt end great stories

[TUXs]

None of what you're describing is unique to this event, though. All that stuff was already happening

This^^

 

Bad players are just bad and they don't care if they take others down. Nothing new with this event and the quality of players.

[hadoken]

This^^

 

Bad players are just bad and they don't care if they take others down. Nothing new with this event and the quality of players.

 

I might actually say it would take a better player to level effectively under the 12xp rule than traditionally, as you do have to plan out your gear or your skill/companion use better (since you outlevel gear so much faster).

[Huckdabuck]

None of what you're describing is unique to this event, though. All that stuff was already happening

 

And we have a winner.

[Deewe]

So I now agree with you. Maybe if this 12xXP only applied if you had a toon (maybe a toon in each faction) that had made it through Corellia then it wouldn't be so bad but if last night were any indication this 12xXP for noobs is leading to a lot of people who cannot play their class. Yes I said it! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS!!!

I'd vote for 1x55 on each faction or at least 2x55 on any.

 

And not only because of the hard mode ones but because with the XP boost players are missing tons of content, wich is fine for players who already did it.

[AlaricSevGirl]

Voice chat and not pugging...seems you need to do both.

[Fantasme]

And that is why you should stick out of all 10-54 FP's and everything else during such events.

Double-xp is fine, but 12x just made the "problem" bigger.

 

But just so you know, if they can't learn it through tactical flashpoints and such, where should they learn it then?

Heroics 4 isn't even close to a good "lesson" of how you should play your class in a group, so they have to start somewhere.

[Costello]

I never thought I would agree that bonus XP was a bad thing.

 

But in this case it seems to have some really big issues if you play it how it is advertised i.e. an option to just run the class stories. The first of course is the gear, you out level your gear fast. So even if you try to keep your gear up to date its class story, gear grind, class story, gear grind. Where you may as well be running the missions to get the coms and credits etc. But much as I did you can use your other characters to help gear up.

 

Then the experience is chat with quest giver, drive half way across the map, complete the mission which maybe as little as a conversation or kill one person, go back to the quest giver. Drive to the next area, speak to the quest giver, drive half way across the map, kill maybe 12 people, go back to the quest giver, drive to the next area.

 

I spent most of my time on my speeder getting from A to B trying to avoid the hundreds of hostile creatures people that stood in my way. The experience is sped up but it hasn't condensed the fun its made the experience far more about using a speeder to get from one half of the map to the other which could be duller than running it normally.

[SteelPiranha]

People queuing as a healer and dps'ing isn't a 12xp event problem or even a "KNOW YOUR CLASS" problem (per se). This has been happening since the inception of the Group Finder tool. It's purely not paying attention to which roles are checked when queuing....I've made that mistake a few times when using an alt that has heal/dps abilites.

 

Regarding the 12xp:

I would even go as far to say that the 12xp bonus has actually taught me to use my abilities and CDs more resourcefully as my gear is almost always severely subpar.

 

Edit: Why exactly are we talking about KDY being affected by 12xp anyways? Isn't KDY bolstered and takes the groups composition into account?

Edited October 22, 2014 by SteelPiranha

[TUXs]

Regarding the 12xp:

I would even go as far to say that the 12xp bonus has actually taught me to use my abilities and CDs more resourcefully as my gear is almost always severely subpar.

 

Absolutely! People seem to be too use to running over geared 55's through level 50 FPs. You need to play smarter is all...you can get away with 2-3 sets of armor (if that) from 1-55. My companion, Mako, is still in her starter gear from level 10 (mostly).

[Jadescythe]

Just level more alts. And keep your 55 activities to those you would normally do solo or with people you know. Otherwise expect everyone to be incompetent, 12x XP or not.

[ikinai]

Just level more alts. And keep your 55 activities to those you would normally do solo or with people you know. Otherwise expect everyone to be incompetent, 12x XP or not.

 

I expect myself to be incompetent so that I'm surprised when I'm not. Plus it lowers my expectations of everyone else in the group for me. I imagine running an FP as a group of Richard Lewis', we are basically a comedy of errors and painful failure. And yet we somehow succeed.

[MediumD]

But just so you know, if they can't learn it through tactical flashpoints and such, where should they learn it then?

Heroics 4 isn't even close to a good "lesson" of how you should play your class in a group, so they have to start somewhere.

 

SWTOR doesn't show you (or force you to learn) how to use interrupts, manage threat, or gear properly. Consequently, PUGs are filled with noobs with gloves on their feet and helmets on backward. That's not a problem of 12xp, that's a problem of game design. I shouldn't have to read a guide on Dulfy to gear my powertech, for example.

 

12xp actually forces me to approach fights differently, since I'm usually undergeared until level 47. I have to use taunts, roots, interrupts, and HM to manage the fights, instead of just facerolling a rotation.

[Warrgames]

They all need to read the other thread that gives a wonderful guide to the game mechanics. Because OMG they have no clue....But most players don't visit the forums, they just play the game. :/

 

I was in tact last night with a PT tank that stayed 20m away from the boss. I linked him that guide and Dulfy guide and he quit group and placed me on ignore.

[Muljo_Stpho]

I don't know if it was strictly a 12x XP problem or just a more general problem going on, but last week I had one where I was queuing as my level 55 operative healer (geared in mostly 162/168 mix with some leftover 156 still equipped) and got matched into a group "in progress" in (HM50) Lost Island with group members all around level 51-52 and all with about 10k-12k health. In this case, "in progress" meant that they had maybe fought 1-2 of the mobs on the path to the first boss already before losing their previous healer.

 

It ended in a spectacular failure at the first boss, of course. But getting to that point... It was weird. Someone must have had some idea about things because the group was trying to take the offroad shortcuts instead of going through every enemy on the path, but we got pulled into one fight that we were trying to sneak past because one of the dps attacked the neutral droid near the mob for some reason. After that fight they said "woops, I didn't realize it could do that."

 

We wiped on the mob before the first boss fight, and then that boss made short work of us when we tried to fight it. The tank and one of the dps left at that point. Then I decided to leave as well.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Muljo_Stpho

[Sangrar]

None of what you're describing is unique to this event, though. All that stuff was already happening

 

this entirely, those players no matter what were very likely to not know even if there was no 12xp, there are just some people who are like that and never bother to listen to their teammates.

 

It was a problem when the game launched, is a problem now, and will forever be a problem, in many games not just this one. 12XP is just the latest excuse to blame it on but again who says those players would have done any better even without 12xp anyway? some people are just like that

[DawnAskham]

KDY is a magnet for the utterly clueless.

 

When you zone in, do a cursory inspection and pay attention to the first pull or two once you start the run.

 

If the people have lots of empty slots, horribly outdated gear, and run around the first scenario like a bunch of idiots - assume they are idiots and leave - trying to stick it out isn't worth losing your sanity.

 

As for 12x XP having ripple effect, that is true.

 

From tacticals to HMs I have ended up with the woefully under-geared and clueless players more in the last week than I probably have in the entirety of the game.

 

I've gotten people with less than 20K HP in Manaa running off on their own and pulling packs of that nasty trash, only to die in a couple of hits, then after being rezzed, running off to do it all over again.

 

I've gotten a group in HM Czerka with the tank barely at 30K and lots of crappy mods (the Bioware troll mods full of alacrity and accuracy), the healer at 20K and struggling hard - though doing a reasonable job given their gear, and the other dps sitting just under 25K that when attacking a normal on his own couldn't kill it without spending quite a bit of time.

[ivanhedgehog]

I admit it. Those of you that were concerned that with 12xXP people would level too fast and not know how to play their class . . . well I thought y'all were QQing about nothing. I mean most of us have leveled other toons - maybe not up to 55 but enough to know some basic DPS/Healing'Tanking skills right?

 

I owe you all an apology.

 

I ran KDY a couple of times last night and OMG I don't think most of my groupmates had any clue what to do. Do you want to talk about the group I filled in for who were at the end of the flashpoint who couldn't understand (even after I told them 3 times) that a DPS needs to hit the adds and not me who is a healer. How about the person building the ship that had no idea that there were clues to the puzzles so he just picked ones at random claiming he knew what to do. Or how about the second run where I had to DPS because the DPS was healing ME (remember I'm a healer). If I didn't start DPSing it would have been a circle-heals of ineffectualness. Actually a circle-heals might have been warranted as the group would scatter and pull mobs then try to run to another groupmate leading to yet another wipe.

Yes! Multiple wipes on KDY!

 

So I now agree with you. Maybe if this 12xXP only applied if you had a toon (maybe a toon in each faction) that had made it through Corellia then it wouldn't be so bad but if last night were any indication this 12xXP for noobs is leading to a lot of people who cannot play their class. Yes I said it! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS!!!

 

doing the puzzle in KDY has NOTHING to do with knowing how to play your class. it has to do with morons that dont want to wait the 30 seconds it takes to do the puzzle. there are people that have been playing their main since launch and dont know how to play their character. penalizing the rest of us wont solve a thing.

[Banegio]

Like it or not that's the direction the game is heading.

 

The dev is actually addressing the concerns by adding bolster to gf and making it 16m. Really who needs to know roles let alone mechanics.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Banegio

[EllieAnne]

I can get past not knowing the flashpoints or the fights or even how to play well with others, but it's more than flashpoint idiocy. DPSs that don't know how to damage adds. People who think stealth means you can squeeze between mobs or active probe droids. And a lot of people trying to DPS and heal and not doing much of either.