DomiSotto Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Dear Sirs, I want to bring to your attention that majority of the human population is female in gender. Please, consider to remember that when designing for SWTOR and other games. Been playing since 1997, and got used to being shafted each and every time. However, the gender being completely excluded as even one token option for a potential class Protagonist is the whole next level of being ignored as a part of a player base. EDIT: Holy crow. Sorry, sorry, sorry folks! I know it is wiser and more mature to say it doesn't matter, but today something about it got to me. I apologize for sour-grapes. I was wrong and blew it out of proportions. I am also glad people stuck up for BioWARE, it's nice. The only thing I am going to object to is attributing criticism of non-Player characters (Satele or Zash, etc) to me; it was not the intent. I meant the Protagonist and the Protagonist only i.e. the Player Character portrayal in that article about the classes and class stories. I wish I had a chance to apologize before it dragged people into 10+ pages of old-fashioned flamefest, and I am particularly sorry to anyone who got the collateral damage by association. Edited October 16, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What are you talking about? BioWare games - specifically SW:TOR - are pretty much the most representative entries in the entire video games market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to know what you are referring to also. Most of my characters are female, I enjoy the aesthetic a lot more. If I am going to be looking at an *** for hours a day let it be a female one..... ahem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dear Ma'am, Please take into account gamer specific statistics not average world wide statistics when relating male/female to SWTOR. It's true, females almost make up 50% of gamers, but that vast majority of females are mostly console gamers. In SWTOR, you're very outnumbered by males. I agree, though, we need more skimpy outfits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. Edited October 16, 2014 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. I just think they pulled some old concept art out of their storage to pretty up the page. Wouldn't call it iconic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. Satele Shan has been awfully bossy to my Jedi Guardian lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Please take into account gamer specific statistics not average world wide statistics when relating male/female to SWTOR. It's true, females almost make up 50% of gamers, but that vast majority of females are mostly console gamers. And if efforts would have been made to not be so openly male-oriented, that would open up new player base and a market expansion. Working instead of the already loyal audience is stagnating. Again, not ONE of the classes is an image of a female. Even a chanmail bikini one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 They all have a bit of armour concept art to convey the general tone of the classes. All of which is done on a single body type before being iterated on to fit alternate body types. I would call this a nitpick, but that would be giving it too much credit: this is a complete non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazaani Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ... trolls can be females too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ... trolls can be females too! That is not a fair comment Domi is a long time and respected member of this community. And she has a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) What earth are you ta--- I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. You may want to update your thread's initial post with that. Because as it stands it looks like your complaint is that TOR and Bioware's other games do not have female protagonists. Which is just completely wrong. So one article on the home page doesn't have any female characters represented and this means females are "being shafted" all the time? I'm not about to go and start counting, but I think there's a fairly good representation of both genders as protagonists in the game's official media. I dare say you're overreacting. Edited October 16, 2014 by Pscyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 That is not a fair comment Domi is a long time and respected member of this community. And she has a point. Not when females are extraordinarily well-represented in BioWare games, including SW:TOR. This is one of the very few havens in the video game world where the "female demongraphic" is not ignored or treated separately from "core gamers." BioWare is nothing if not the leader of gender equality in this industry. To rag on them for showing off some concept art (which is about the armour, not the person wearing it) is just petty and trivializes BioWare's role in the industry. I have my issues with them, but this is definitely not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dear skinnies, I would like to cordially remind you that 1 in every 3 American adults is PLUS-SIZED and that obesity is growing as an accepted lifestyle choice and approach to personal health across the civilized, progressive world. The PR team's inexcusable ignorance of this fact is on problematic display with not ONE single character design used in this article using the type 4 body. Fat people have been a critical pillar in the Star Wars fandom since its birth in the 70s and there's really no excuse for you dudebros not to recognize that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Not when females are extraordinarily well-represented in BioWare games, including SW:TOR. This is one of the very few havens in the video game world where the "female demongraphic" is not ignored or treated separately from "core gamers." BioWare is nothing if not the leader of gender equality in this industry. To rag on them for showing off some concept art (which is about the armour, not the person wearing it) is just petty and trivializes BioWare's role in the industry. I have my issues with them, but this is definitely not one of them. Well I would like to see the female equivalent of those armours also, she is not alone there. And I still say calling her a troll is just rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dear Sirs I think Nicole and Pokket would take offense to you classifying all of Bioware as males, by the way. I just wanted to point out the irony in that you did the same thing you're complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well I would like to see the female equivalent of those armours also, she is not alone there. And I still say calling her a troll is just rude. True. That being said, I do have a little insight into the industry on this topic as my brother is a graphic designer. Concept art is created on a single "body type." The designers take that art and extrapolate its design to that of other body types. There are no fat body types there, nor skinny, etc. - the default model is created and then applied to other body types. Often that process is automated by the engine, but as we see with BioWare, alterations can be made to make a model more appropriate for other body types. In short, there is no female equivalent of this concept art. That's just not how this process works. And again, it's an extremely petty thing to bring up given the very obvious role of BioWare at the forefront of gender equality in gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. I honestly did not even notice their genders at all anyway its just concept art pictures on one page. In the actual game it self, you see female npc's common in mobs, as bosses, you see them as quest givers, companion characters, and important npc's in class story, there are as many character creation options and variety as males do, and there is a full story and voicing for females for quests and class story just as much and of as good quality as males do. so while females might not have all been equally represented in the event page ( I doubt that they purposefully left females out though) in the actual game itself Bioware definitely knows females exist, and I do not think any gamers were alienated over one article like that. Edited October 16, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. Yea, that is pretty crappy. They should be more conscious, especially considering how many armor styles are very different on the two genders. But then consider this is the same company that it took until Mass Effect 3 to start publicly showing the female Shepard as a canon/definite part of the universe in marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. BW should have made an effort to include a more balanced representation in the article's artwork (actually it shouldn't have been an effort, they shouldn't be defaulting to 100% male in the first place). BUT, by the same token I do appreciate that all of the main page's splash images (except the one with only spaceships) include female characters, and (while it is outright sad that this is noteworthy) not a single one of those characters is put in a sexualized pose at that. Other Sci-Fi MMOs like ST:O and other Disney properties like the Avengers could take a page from BW in that regard. I think the way your initial complain was phrased may be a bit... overbroad, given BW's overall track record as a company - Satele Shan, Chancellor Saresh, General Garza, Lana Beniko, and others are strong and compelling characters in this game. I can appreciate being annoyed, even upset, by seeing "just one more example" of the serious bias that exists in this industry - which often reaches outright stomach-churning levels - but with BW at least, instances like this one seem to be the exception, not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I can appreciate being annoyed, even upset, by seeing "just one more example" of the serious bias that exists in this industry - which often reaches outright stomach-churning levels - but with BW at least, instances like this one seem to be the exception, not the rule. I think even this is unfair. This concept art is not about showcasing character. This armour artwork is about just that - the armour, displayed on a standardized model to keep scale and dimensions understandable and consistent when translating them into in-game models. Turning this into a gender issue just just silly. Edited October 16, 2014 by CelCawdro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorlac Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 For real? Like someone already mentioned, those were probably not even created specifically for this. They're probably shocases for the clothing styles of the classes for internal use. Why would they create versions for both genders when one is enough to get the picture? And even if they were newly created, do you really think they did it on purpose? The artist in all likelyhood didn't give this any thought and considering artistic freedom, he shouldn't have to. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equality in areas where it really counts as in income, access to education, the breaking up of antiquated role models, etc. but this is just taking it a bit too far IMO. I wonder if any male would've complained if all the concept art was showing females and I highly doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. Nice troll. How do you know one or more of them isn't trans-gender? Way to discriminate by looks alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I think even this is unfair. This concept art is not about showcasing character. This armour artwork is about just that - the armour, displayed on a standardized model to keep scale and dimensions understandable and consistent. Turning this into a gender issue just just silly. Your own language is showing part of the problem. The male gender should not be the "standardized model". Men are not the "norm" and females a special exception. There should be examples of both present (perhaps not for each design but overall). The industry really needs to start realizing this. Edited October 16, 2014 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am talking about all 8 classes in the 'class levelling event' having an iconic protagonist image for every class shown as a male. ALL of them. seriously? this is your issue? you know its people like you that give feminism a bad name when your pointlessly try to claim gender inequality in something (like these images) so trivial. ... trolls can be females too! i guess so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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