Why is the Seneschal's Pack higher priced?

[undiess]

So Levram, in what point in that fancy post would you account for the fact that 90% of packs contents sell for under 100k credits, majory of those selling under 100k sell for 20k or less. The majority of the pack content is not worthwhile to players and reflected in what people are actually willing to pay and price in-game.

 

Seeing a price go up for the packs for SWTOR developer bottom line without any real benefit added is what stings most people. It's a same 'ol pack with the same random chance to get something worth-while, with the price just upped a bit. People won't mind spending more if there is something more that their getting for it.

 

If SWTOR Developers needed to meet their bottom line, they should meet it by producing better content for the packs, and/or improving the chance for higher quality items from packs via paying more per pack.

 

Raising just to raise to meet a goal, without bringing any additional worthwhile content is lazy and consumers are smart enough by now to realize this, hense back lash.

Edited October 16, 2014 by undiess

[Sangrar]

Since cartel market prices are rising, it would be awfully nice if subscriber cartel coin rewards were increased greatly across the board.

 

no that would not work, especially with the referral links that produce for some people enough cartel coins that they never have to spend a cent on them, if they increased rewards then no one would actually have a reason to buy cartel coins and that would defeat the entire point of the cartel market.

[Icestar]

To me they proved with this pack that it really is all about the money.

 

They should learn that a happy customer is a buying customer. I will not buy another hypercrate to get a decoration anymore, not when they overprice it and has something as simple as a decoration at a insane low droprate.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Icestar

[Arkerus]

To me they proved with this pack that it really is all about the money.

 

They should learn that a happy customer is a buying customer. I will not buy another hypercrate to get a decoration anymore, not when they overprice it and has something as simple as a decoration at a insane low droprate.

 

Businesses are all about the money, news at 11.

 

And yes, voting with your wallet is the right things to do if you are unhappy.

[Icestar]

Businesses are all about the money, news at 11.

 

And yes, voting with your wallet is the right things to do if you are unhappy.

 

Exactly, I was wrong to have faith that they actually wanted the cartel market to be a fun part of SWTOR like when then they reduced the prices and let more player share the fun.

[Deewe]

Raising just to raise to meet a goal, without bringing any additional worthwhile content is lazy and consumers are smart enough by now to realize this, hense back lash.

Not sure it's lazy, but more an intended move, ie also make objects more valuable, as more expensive, and so more rare.

 

Now most of the players feel there isn't that much work involved in creating the items in the pack from reskins and eventually slight meshes changes. It seems this is one of the main problem here. People would not care for the actual pricing provided they'd get a fair trade for their hard earned money.

 

From my experience the 2 former packs sold very well because, not only the price was lowered, but also because people got a decoration from all the packs. Which was either looked after or sold well on the GTN.

 

So for now they have multiple avenues

• Keep things as is and well most certainly see a decrease in number of sales and total income, plus grow some unhappy customers.
  
• Keep the price as is and buff the content:
  
  • Add one or two specific item on top of what you already get. Like as you now always get a deco, you'd always get a dye too, or a dye and a crystal, or a weapon. But the category of the item(s) has to be a certainty.
    
  • Or make sure to create really new items for packs.
    

  [*]Decrease the price of the packs and keep selling existing assets or reskins.

[Arkerus]

Exactly, I was wrong to have faith that they actually wanted the cartel market to be a fun part of SWTOR like when then they reduced the prices and let more player share the fun.

 

I'm not sure you understand how the real world works. Trust me when I say the first two packs didn't have a lower price because of "fun". Bioware creates "fun" and products that people want to play. That is how they make money. But they didn't lower the price on the first two packs because some guy burst into a board room and said "HEY, LET'S JUST GIVE THEM SOME FUN!!!!"

[OddballEasyEight]

If you have to try its not edgy.

 

People can ask all they want, I reserve the right to have a laugh at people acting like it matters.

 

Real money doesn't matter?

Because we are talking about something that ostensibly cost real money.

[OddballEasyEight]

They won't answer because the answer is obvious - to maximize profit.

 

But it won't... which is why people are asking. It doesn't make sense.

[OddballEasyEight]

*snip*

 

That was a really long way of saying they can change their prices any way they want and they'll try to maximise profits.

 

Something that's been discussed plenty of times already in this thread and alot of people actually say this will decrease their profits because they won't be buying any packs this time (or just one as opposed to more than one with the lower price).

[jankiel]

To put it simple:

 

Darth Bioware: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further

[aeterno]

But it won't... which is why people are asking. It doesn't make sense.

 

I don't like it and as I've said it seems strange to me pack prices arent better attuned to CC bundle prices BUT I'm pretty sure it will personally.

 

We here may not buy or buy less but I'd bet the price went up because they came to the conclusion the lower price doesn't move enough additional packs to mitigate the lower per pack revenue. I'm pretty sure whoever is calling the shots over this in Austin is not eyeballing things on a whim and is using a larger data sample than these forums.

[Bluejayoo]

Aaaaand that would only apply if they had changed the price frequently throughout the lifetime of the cartel packs.

 

Rather they applied that principle in the past has no bearing on rather they applied it now. I find your lack of understanding of basic logic disturbing.

 

Also here is a quote from Bioware where they state explicitly that they follow this policy.

 

"Do items put in the Galactic Trade Network sell?

Yes. We have metrics, as well, on what sells, and for what price, which we compare to their drop rates. This gives us a great idea on adjustments we should make for future packs (the drop rates and the pack contents themselves) - which means that our next round of packs will be better, and the ones after that will be better again. "

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5738442#post5738442

 

 

In the future if you want to extend your whining about a 'company adjusting prices on a entertainment product' to personal attacks to those that don't agree with you, please at least try to be educated about it.

[Callaron]

It was nice while it lasted, and it actually managed to pry a good 9k CC from my grasp.

Now I'll go back to my old modus operandi. AKA wait until the pack goes on a massive discount of 60-80%.

(Got my faction all maxed out anyway )

Edited October 16, 2014 by Callaron

[Darth_Wicked]

It was nice while it lasted, and it actually managed to pry a good 9k CC from my grasp.

Now I'll go back to my old modus operandi. AKA wait until the pack goes on a massive discount of 60-80%.

(Got my faction all maxed out anyway )

 

Pretty much the same here. Their loss I guess.

[Levram]

That was a really long way of saying they can change their prices any way they want and they'll try to maximise profits.

 

Something that's been discussed plenty of times already in this thread and alot of people actually say this will decrease their profits because they won't be buying any packs this time (or just one as opposed to more than one with the lower price).

 

I simply tried to lay out the full underlying economic rational for why pack prices are variable, as it appears that many players either do not accept or understand a simple statement such as "they can change their prices any way they want and they'll try to maximise profits."

 

Forum posters represent a tiny fraction of the entire player base of this game. A few anecdotal posts from a dozen players that they are not buying packs this time around provides no evidence that the higher pack price is bringing in less total revenue.

 

In fact, there were several people who provided the exact opposite anecdotal evidence in this thread, that even though they had a negative opinion of the new pricing, they still spent their coins.

 

The only people who know whether purchase volume in combination with the original pack pricing, the lower pack pricing, or this middle pack pricing is bringing in enough revenue to meet their internal financial targets for each individual pack are the Developers.

 

Just finished opening my hypercrate (my virtual coin wallet is crying) and the only thing I can tell is that there were maybe slightly more certificates?

 

all the packs have now a lower price. Lower prices go to more buying from players. Why not the senechal ?

 

the answer will be interesting. I will wait before buy 3-4 of it.

 

ok, i buy some...

 

Well, I had already re-upped my CC's, so I bought a hypercrate anyway.

 

Well, let's just say I reverted to my old ways of buying just one hypercrate...

 

Because they knew i am going to buy few of them asap because of jedi robes.

 

well they kinda shot em selfs in the foot with me as I normaly buy 2x hypercrate but I only bought 1 this time...

 

I had just enough coins for a HC with the previous price of around 4500 then this happens.

 

I got a bunch of armor boxes out of 17 packs.

 

I'm disappointed by the price raise, but not angry about it. i was expecting it to stay at 210 (to keep in line with the rest of this shipment), but the price raise just means I'm only buying one hypercrate instead of 2 as I had planned. Oh well.

 

As closure, roundly $2.20 per pack is way too expensive. I bought even 28 of them (i.e. $60)

 

Insane low drop rate of anything good tbh. I bought 18 packs,...

 

I had stocked up on cartel coins (10k Monday night) in anticipation of getting 2 hypercrates. No doubt Bioware was expecting me to plunk down another $40 to absorb the price increase, and still get the two hypercrates.

 

Instead I just spent the coins I'd already bought; I chose instead to absorb the price increase by receiving less product (about 1.5 hypercrates),

 

Had a 24 pack, well there are more items per pack, just thought it was worth saying that. Does that make it worth it? guess each individual has to decide that for themselves.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Levram

[Levram]

So Levram, in what point in that fancy post would you account for the fact that 90% of packs contents sell for under 100k credits, majory of those selling under 100k sell for 20k or less. The majority of the pack content is not worthwhile to players and reflected in what people are actually willing to pay and price in-game.

 

Seeing a price go up for the packs for SWTOR developer bottom line without any real benefit added is what stings most people. It's a same 'ol pack with the same random chance to get something worth-while, with the price just upped a bit. People won't mind spending more if there is something more that their getting for it.

 

If SWTOR Developers needed to meet their bottom line, they should meet it by producing better content for the packs, and/or improving the chance for higher quality items from packs via paying more per pack.

 

Raising just to raise to meet a goal, without bringing any additional worthwhile content is lazy and consumers are smart enough by now to realize this, hense back lash.

 

The value proposition takes into account the total Value of a pack that is offered, as assessed by each individual player. If we take the numbers you created at face value, 90% of the contents of a pack are contributing a very small amount to the total Benefit of the pack, let's assume "0 Benefit." Therefore the entirety of a pack's Benefit, as related to content, is coming from 10% of the items included when opening it.

 

Assuming that a pack purchase will be made by any player who's personal Value assessment of a pack is positive (i.e. greater than 0) we can work with the following equation (note, I am excluding "pack mix" and "item drop-rates" from the Benefit portion of the equation and "pack availability" from the Cost portion for simplicity):

 

Value = Benefits - Costs

Value = [ Benefit from "low credit value" items + Benefit from "10%" items ] - Coin cost

Value = [ 0 + Benefit from "10%" items ] - 300

 

Therefore, in order for this equation to result in a positive Value for this player, the Benefit they assign to the "10%" items must be greater than 300 in order for a purchase to occur.

 

So, in answer to your question of "in what point in that fancy post would you account for the fact that 90% of packs contents sell for under 100k credits, majory of those selling under 100k sell for 20k or less," I say that the low credit value items have a negligible impact on a player's Value assessment of a pack. Their purchase decision is based almost solely on the Value they assign to the "10%" items.

 

I would also remind you that these value proposition assessments are based on each player's individual opinions. Just because a Sea Green crystal from the latest pack ultimately ends up selling for a low credit value, that does not mean that certain players did not assign a high Benefit to those crystals when they were making purchases early in a pack's lifecycle. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

As for the rest of your response, you are missing a couple of the fundamental points of my original post, the key one being, whenever you use phrases such as "without any real benefit added," "producing better content for the packs," and "additional worthwhile content," those are personal value proposition assessments that are made by each player. For the "Revanites" of the player base, Seneschal's Pack may very well be, to them, the pack with the greatest benefit, best content and most worthwhile addition that has ever been released, simply because it contains a statue of Revan which they assign a large Benefit to.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Levram

[Deewe]

In fact, there were several people who provided the exact opposite anecdotal evidence in this thread, that even though they had a negative opinion of the new pricing, they still spent their coins.

Indeed but as stated by most, it's not something they are that happy with and won't spend more.

 

Now that being said, took some time to check the values of the items I got out of the 28 packs I bought versus day 1 GTN prices. For each item I took the second lowest price.

 

Short version :

• Total Decos + items: 7.753.000 credits for $60.*
  

 

Decos:

1. Altar of Skulls 2*1.750k
   
2. Arrangement: Tribal Campfire 2*45k
   
3. Banner: House Thul 2*65k
   
4. Battle-Worn Imperial Placard 2*50k
   
5. Cage of Tormented 1*145k
   
6. Computer Station (Emergency) 2*25k
   
7. Flag: House Thul 3x2 6*20k
   
8. Hunter’s Planning Table 1*750k**
   
9. Merchant Stall: General Goods 3x30k
   
10. Planter: Blood Razor Fern 4*65k
    
11. Shackled Crystal Sconce 2*120k
    
12. Small Holo Table 4*75k
    
13. Statue of the Throned Sith 2*125k
    
14. Voss-ka Street Lamp 4*50k = 200k
    

 

Total decos per today market value 6.225.000 credits

 

• Rark K-21 4*2k
  
• Ikas XK-13 1*10k
  
• Tirsa Paramount 1*10k
  

 

• Czerka EW-94 Probe 1*7k
  
• Model SpearPoint 1*5k
  

 

• Sea Green Crystals x 3 (75k the most expensive)
  
• Baby blue/pink dye 3*10k
  

 

Total various items market value: 1.528.000 credits

 

 

*Not including all the junk and mundane objects though.

 

**Interesting enough seems the hunter's planning table was the most rare out of the list as there where only 3 on the GTN, versus at least 2 pages for the altar of skulls or other rare items.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Deewe

[JattaGin]

To add my 2 cents: I bought a hypercrate of the new pack (as I always do) and in my humble opinion, it was so far the worst crate I ever got. There was absolutely nothing special inside. I got dozens of the Shackled Crystal Sconce and enough boxes with pieces for this extremely ugly cyborg set that I could equip all my 16 chars with it (slightly - not overly - exaggerating here to make a point).

 

The first two packs of this shipment were not only cheaper but contained much, much better stuff. This hypercrate was even more worthless than all the previous worthless ones. Very disappointed. Even more than usually.

Edited October 16, 2014 by JattaGin

[Drockter]

Well, I'm surprised that so many people consider Eric's answer to not actually be a reason. I'll flesh out the underlying context of his response.

 

 

Electronic Arts

 

Electronic Arts (EA) is a publicly traded company that has the primary responsibility to its shareholders to increase its value over time, thereby increasing the value of each shareholder's investment in the company. Operating in a market economy as a publically traded company, shareholders primarily look to the trends in EA's revenue growth and quarterly net profits to determine whether the company has increased its value over time.

 

As stated in EA's 2014 Annual Report, as part of the "Our Strategy" section, "A cornerstone of our strategy is to leverage established intellectual properties (which we call “brands”) to create year-round gaming experiences on multiple platforms, each capable of delivering additional content and revenue over extended periods of time."

 

SWTOR

 

SWTOR, being one of EA's current brands, is a contributing factor to the company's overall revenue and factors into its "bottom line" net profit calculations. Therefore, SWTOR itself needs to demonstrate a positive trend in revenue and net profit in order for the EA executives in charge of overall strategic decisions to continue to green-light the ongoing financial investment that EA is making for the future development of SWTOR.

 

The SWTOR team, working under the overall EA strategic objectives of positive growth in revenue and net profit, make game-level development decisions to identify how to most effectively and efficiently achieve those goals on an ongoing basis. Certain decisions are made based on long-term strategic plans, for example, creating the content for the Shadow of Revan expansion. Other decisions are able to be implemented, essentially, instantaneously, such as in the Cartel Market as it provides a dynamic pricing environment where the cost of items can be updated at will.

 

The Cartel Market

 

EA's Annual Report addresses how SWTOR's Cartel Market fits into their overall strategy in a subsection on "Digital Revenue Growth."

 

"...we also derive significant and increasing revenue from the delivery of games, additional content and services through online and wireless networks, which we refer to as 'digital revenue.'...We believe that digital revenue, which is frequently higher-margin relative to packaged goods sales revenue, will continue to increase in relative and absolute terms."

 

Therefore, the SWTOR developers are accountable to EA for, in the most general of terms, positive financial results "over extended periods of time" using increasing digital revenue streams. This results in the SWTOR developers constantly striving to generate as much revenue as possible in each revenue stream that they control. Altering pricing in the Cartel Market is one option available to them. Ultimately, future Cartel Market pricing decisions for packs and hypercrates will be based on past financial results and expected future performance based on the contents of each new pack released.

 

Player Impact

 

EA creates a "value proposition" with each individual player. As per Wikipedia, "A value proposition is a promise of value to be delivered and acknowledged and a belief from the customer that value will be appealed and experienced." This can be thought of as a value equation for each player where:

 

Value = Benefits - Costs

 

While players have an overall assessment of the total Value they personally receive from SWTOR as a whole, each Cartel pack can also be seen as having a unique Value to players as a standalone item.

 

SWTOR's Developers adjust the Benefits (i.e. contents, mix and drop-rate) and Costs (e.g. coin cost and availability period) of each pack. As long as a player's personal value equation remains positive for a given pack, a purchase is made. Therefore, to continue SWTOR's digital revenue growth, and thereby growth in revenue for the brand over extended periods of time, the Developers will attempt to find a value proposition for each pack which results in the following equation:

 

Purchase volume x Coin cost of pack = Internal financial target

 

 

Conclusion

 

EA is not a charity and SWTOR is not a present. The game is a revenue stream for a publically traded corporation. The goal of the game's Developers is to create as many positive value propositions as possible to keep players involved in the game and spending money.

 

The control that an individual player has in this relationship is to financially demonstrate which side of their personal value proposition they are experiencing, whether positive or negative. A player spending coins on the current pack definitively indicates that they experienced some level of a positive value proposition. It may be higher or lower than the Value they have experienced with prior packs, but it is still positive.

 

The only part of the Developer’s equation that is visible to the player population is the coin cost of a pack. Without knowing both purchase volume and the Developer’s internal financial target, it is impossible to assess the success of any given pack’s price point.

 

What isn’t a mystery is the variability observed in the price of a pack.

 

/Thread

 

Very well stated... maybe not what people want to hear, but very well explained.

[DarthDymond]

versus at least 2 pages for the altar of skulls or other rare item.s

Wow, guess these packs are still selling pretty well despite the price up-tick if there are that many dropping (and being sold instead of unlocked).

 

BW'll have their data soon on how well the packs are selling at the new price-point, so I guess we'll see how they're priced going forward. Even if they had a 30% drop in sales compared to the last pack, they'd still be breaking even.

[Drockter]

So Levram, in what point in that fancy post would you account for the fact that 90% of packs contents sell for under 100k credits, majory of those selling under 100k sell for 20k or less. The majority of the pack content is not worthwhile to players and reflected in what people are actually willing to pay and price in-game.

 

Seeing a price go up for the packs for SWTOR developer bottom line without any real benefit added is what stings most people. It's a same 'ol pack with the same random chance to get something worth-while, with the price just upped a bit. People won't mind spending more if there is something more that their getting for it.

 

If SWTOR Developers needed to meet their bottom line, they should meet it by producing better content for the packs, and/or improving the chance for higher quality items from packs via paying more per pack.

 

Raising just to raise to meet a goal, without bringing any additional worthwhile content is lazy and consumers are smart enough by now to realize this, hense back lash.

 

The GTN price is set by the players, not EA/Bioware/Devs

 

So, to answer that question; people bought a large number of packs (crates), one of the more common drops have a large supply, and obviously not a high demand. The GTN sellers are undercutting eachothers prices in order for their posted item to sell, not enough people are buying those more common items, and therefore with the constant undercutting, the price has fallen to very low levels.

 

If you do not think the pack is worthwhile, dont buy the pack. I certainly have not. Then again, I rarely buy the packs...eventually the item hits the GTN, and if you wait long enough, the perceived player value of the item drops, and I pick it up then... if at all.

[Alssaran]

The GTN price is set by the players, not EA/Bioware/Devs

 

That's only partial true. Bioware can have a rather strong influence on the pricing in the GTN by adjusting the rarity and droprate of said items.

 

A good example would be the Vrook Lamar Chestpiece. It was the one item I was looking forward to obtain for my Jedi-Guardian, yet I can hardly get it. It's 3,5 Million credits on the GTN because it apparently drops rarely. If Bioware would adjust the rarity and let it drop more often, the price would go down.

[Arkerus]

I simply tried to lay out the full underlying economic rational for why pack prices are variable, as it appears that many players either do not accept or understand a simple statement such as "they can change their prices any way they want and they'll try to maximise profits."

 

Forum posters represent a tiny fraction of the entire player base of this game. A few anecdotal posts from a dozen players that they are not buying packs this time around provides no evidence that the higher pack price is bringing in less total revenue.

 

In fact, there were several people who provided the exact opposite anecdotal evidence in this thread, that even though they had a negative opinion of the new pricing, they still spent their coins.

 

The only people who know whether purchase volume in combination with the original pack pricing, the lower pack pricing, or this middle pack pricing is bringing in enough revenue to meet their internal financial targets for each individual pack are the Developers.

 

This is exactly it. The complaints in this thread can simply be boiled down to human irrationality or complaints that the "price is too damn high!"

 

This latest action by Bioware is very NORMAL. There is nothing so out of bounds it warrants some kind of claim of dishonesty or foul by Bioware.

 

If someone is really that upset with the price-value then they can simply vote with their wallet. It will show up on Bioware's radar as under selling and they may do something about it. But I suspect that people won't vote with their wallets. They simply enjoy complaining and then grumble as they buy it anyway.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Arkerus

[Vinak]

Hey folks,

 

I talked with our team to get an answer to the adjusted price. The first thing to keep in mind is that our pack prices can fluctuate, both up and down. Even within a specific shipment, each pack is subject to its own pricing. In this case the pricing of the early packs in the shipment were at a reduced rate. Even though the price of the Seneschal’s Stronghold Pack is 300cc per pack, this is still cheaper than the standard pack pricing we had previously at 320cc per pack. I apologize for any confusion around pack pricing.

 

-eric

So...When can we expect a 1944cc refund? Cause I aint buying any more packs till I get it. Unless we get a satisfactory answer to the question... That doesn't sound like "cause we felt like it" in PR(BS) speak.

 

I just assumed the packs were the same price as before. I shouldn't have to make sure the price hasn't randomly increased every time I decide to buy something from the Cartel Market. Real shady business practice in my opinion.

 

 

I'll settle for the next hypercrates priced at 2592cc as restitution.

 

 

Half sarcasm...But not kidding regarding never buying any more crates at that price point. I had bought 2-3 crates prior to the price drop over the course of....I dunno. Nearly a year now. But went ahead and bought every new crate cause I thought the prices were much more reasonable.

 

Guess it's back to not buying crates. Good job EA.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Vinak