What could make speeder racing feasable?

[TUXs]

Here's an idea, Bioware....

 

Try speeder (pod) racing as a mini warzone event!

HELL NO! Then people will pretend it's "PvP" content just like they do with GSF. Call it crafting or leveling or anything else content...just don't associate it at all with PvP.

[ninjonxb]

When I am in GSF there can be upwards of 10 or more ships dogfighting in the same area and I don't experience lag. Swoop bike racing you won't need to calculate the third axis and it would be on a predefined track. Limiting to only four racers at a time would make it feasible, plus it would make for a faster queue time.

 

There would be less data.

However you wouldn't notice the lag in GSF like you would in Racing.

 

In GSF it can always be sending you the data of where the ship was and you react based on that data.

Any lag that comes from the fact that you are technically firing at a ship that on that ships screen is no longer in that position is all masked by the server calculations and the lack of split second scoring like in a legitimate race.

 

A legitimate race can't have this mask. If you see a player in a position and at the same time on that players screen they are infact 3 feet ahead, it is a big deal when you are legitimately racing head to head.

 

It is obviously possible to overcome this (racing games have been doing it for years), But I don't think (i could be wrong and they actually spent more time on GSF then I thought they did) the way networking in GSF is implemented is a solution.

[Vashforth]

It may sound stupid but if they were to have a feature within the race that during the last 100 meters all players stealthed from other players view so no one could tell who wins until the score board appears. Once entering the last 100 meters Baron Deathmark announces that a player has entering the "cloaked last stretch where anything can happen!" or something corny like that. It could in essence mask the issues they have with lag and determining the winner. Edited October 21, 2014 by Vashforth

[ikinai]

It may sound stupid but if they were to have a feature within the race that during the last 100 meters all players stealthed from other players view so no one could tell who wins until the score board appears. It could in essence mask the issues they have with lag and determining the winner.

 

Unfortunately it isn't really a matter of the graphics side of things. It has more to do with latency in the client communicating with the server. The server still needs to calculate where you and all the other racers are, even if you are stealthed. It's pretty much what Ninjon has been discussing, in that the server has to recalculate those positions quickly on the server. That's where the issues arise. If they could overcome that problem, then yes we could have swoop bike or pod racing. The only thing close to it so far is GSF, and even it is less math intensive than the racing would be.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ikinai

[Vashforth]

Unfortunately it isn't really a matter of the graphics side of things. It has more to do with latency in the client communicating with the server. The server still needs to calculate where you and all the other racers are, even if you are stealthed. It's pretty much what Nixon has been discussing, in that the server has to recalculate those positions quickly on the server. That's where the issues arise. If they could overcome that problem, then yes we could have swoop bike or pod racing. The only thing close to it so far is GSF, and even it is less math intensive than the racing would be.

 

Being stealthed would only prevent other players from having screen shots and video showing proof they were actually first (from their clients POV). Our clients do lie to us all the time and having others not visible during the last stretch would mask the inconsistencies and make the server not have to continuously communicate super precise throughout the race until the end.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Vashforth

[Deewe]

There would be less data.

However you wouldn't notice the lag in GSF like you would in Racing.

 

In GSF it can always be sending you the data of where the ship was and you react based on that data.

Any lag that comes from the fact that you are technically firing at a ship that on that ships screen is no longer in that position is all masked by the server calculations and the lack of split second scoring like in a legitimate race.

 

A legitimate race can't have this mask. If you see a player in a position and at the same time on that players screen they are infact 3 feet ahead, it is a big deal when you are legitimately racing head to head.

 

It is obviously possible to overcome this (racing games have been doing it for years), But I don't think (i could be wrong and they actually spent more time on GSF then I thought they did) the way networking in GSF is implemented is a solution.

Best example: at a time a friend of mine and I played SWTOR together PC next to each other.

 

What we noticed is that our respective character position on each PC wasn't synced, client side.

 

I.e. his characters would stand closer or farther than what I was seeing on my screen.

 

So it comes down to this:

Unfortunately it isn't really a matter of the graphics side of things. It has more to do with latency in the client communicating with the server. The server still needs to calculate where you and all the other racers are, even if you are stealthed.

Network syncing.

 

It can and it has been done in other games. It's just the way the game handles character positioning (and many other things among them network syncing) isn't that optimized.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Deewe

[LordArtemis]

Quite a few good replies and ideas. Interesting read. Please keep them coming.

[Djiini]

What could make speeder racing feasible?

 

Well, a game engine that isn't terrible...

[Deewe]

What could make speeder racing feasible?

 

Well, a game engine that isn't terrible...

Well more going back to the white board to redo all positioning calculations and syncing.

 

That would also improve response times for everything like OP, WZ and such.

PvP would be smoother too.

[LordArtemis]

Well, from my perspective, a few things.

 

Would likely need to be a new server, new equipment.

Seamless models, no errors, low poly and low textures. FPS is the main concern, with client/server communication running a close second.

 

This is why I suggested a single tunnel track, with speed boost pads, obstacles, npcs that could interfere, traps, etc. that could all effect your time, best time wins, daily, weekly and leaderboard.

 

One could customize their speeder like GSF, soup it up to have better performance, better armor or knockoff protection, better control, etc.

[Deewe]

Well, from my perspective, a few things.

 

Would likely need to be a new server, new equipment.

Seamless models, no errors, low poly and low textures. FPS is the main concern, with client/server communication running a close second.

 

This is why I suggested a single tunnel track, with speed boost pads, obstacles, npcs that could interfere, traps, etc. that could all effect your time, best time wins, daily, weekly and leaderboard.

 

One could customize their speeder like GSF, soup it up to have better performance, better armor or knockoff protection, better control, etc.

You are right, don't think the current architecture would allow them to run these races on non instanced instances, whatever the poly counts... well unless speeders goes at 2 miles an hour...

 

Then again, even instanced they need quite a fast speed to make it interesting. So network synchronization would be of an issue (cf their prototype).

 

My guess at this point is they can make speeder racing but it would have to be single player only.

 

Then depending how successful it is they could see whether it's worth the development cost to redo the client server data synchronization.

 

However what they could to is drop in game circuit and let players organizes the races by themselves. While there will be lag and it won't be perfect regarding who's really the winner it could still provide fun to the players, especially if you drop NPC rabbits there too.

[LordArtemis]

You are right, don't think the current architecture would allow them to run these races on non instanced instances, whatever the poly counts... well unless speeders goes at 2 miles an hour...

 

Then again, even instanced they need quite a fast speed to make it interesting. So network synchronization would be of an issue (cf their prototype).

 

My guess at this point is they can make speeder racing but it would have to be single player only.

 

Then depending how successful it is they could see whether it's worth the development cost to redo the client server data synchronization.

 

However what they could to is drop in game circuit and let players organizes the races by themselves. While there will be lag and it won't be perfect regarding who's really the winner it could still provide fun to the players, especially if you drop NPC rabbits there too.

 

I have an idea....instead of moving the player forward, they can run a hamster wheel setup. I have seen this done a few times, it works under certain specific situations when dealing with network communication lag.

[Deewe]

I have an idea....instead of moving the player forward, they can run a hamster wheel setup. I have seen this done a few times, it works under certain specific situations when dealing with network communication lag.

Not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

Mind elaborating plz?

[LordArtemis]

Not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

Mind elaborating plz?

 

You move the environment instead of the player. The player remains in a fixed spot, doing no more than moving left or right. The environment that surrounds you moves instead to give you the illusion that you are moving forward.

 

It is much easier to communicate position this way since the model is rotating around you.

 

Like a hamster wheel....it simply spawns boosts and slowdowns inside the pipe that it rolls to you until the race ends.

[NecroMayre]

You move the environment instead of the player. The player remains in a fixed spot, doing no more than moving left or right. The environment that surrounds you moves instead to give you the illusion that you are moving forward.

 

It is much easier to communicate position this way since the model is rotating around you.

 

Like a hamster wheel....it simply spawns boosts and slowdowns inside the pipe that it rolls to you until the race ends.

 

Simulation doesn't work with 3rd person or in a race with multiple people.

[Deewe]

You move the environment instead of the player. The player remains in a fixed spot, doing no more than moving left or right. The environment that surrounds you moves instead to give you the illusion that you are moving forward.

 

It is much easier to communicate position this way since the model is rotating around you.

 

Like a hamster wheel....it simply spawns boosts and slowdowns inside the pipe that it rolls to you until the race ends.

Get it now!

 

Not sure it would improve the lag as you still have to sync all players, be it their position of the surrounding ones.

[Wickedesigns]

The way players imagine it :

 

You visit a planet or planets and areas that speeder arenas are based... Outside the arenas, are vendors, events (like a theme park), also purchase speeder parts to make it faster or better looking... We can purchase or craft our own speeders with special rare and unique parts, etc. Each 6 months or so, bioware makes speeder racing events with great rewards.

 

The way bioware if they ever do it, will present it to us.

 

A kind of instanced like star fighter arena, without interaction of the real game world, without visiting, watching, buying things . Only with tokens, with no need to craft or modify the way we want the speeders and it will be forgotten in less than a month.

 

Boom! On point.

[LordArtemis]

Simulation doesn't work with 3rd person or in a race with multiple people.

 

It would work with 3rd person IMO, but you are correct in my view in saying that it would not work with multiple people. It would have to be single player, best time kind of thing. Something like what was in KotOR.