LordArtemis Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Ok, it has been noted by the devs that speeder racing was attempted, but they faced technical problems, namely that they could not get past server lag (seems Bioware suffers from this problem as well). One solution might be to allow the latency to be handled and position reported from the client side, but that might open up the ability to cheat (since player can hack and modify information being sent to the server). I thought about another possible solution. When working on parts of a game that streams content constantly, lag can be created from problems rendering objects on the client due to processing lags on the server side (which might be the case here). One possible solution that I have seen implemented is to reduce the rendered objects to a minimum. In the original KotOR game, there was a racing feature in which you would race down a tube. This is something that could be done here, but the tube itself could be very low poly...a smooth tube, seamless, with properly joined polys for a seamless mesh and basic textures. The player and speeder could also be a special single object mesh with simple textures. I would like to hear some ideas from the community. Let me know what you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Collisions... Can a speeder race be a speeder race if there's no collisions ? Personally, I think that's the first step needed, because regardless of lag or anything, if it doesn't feel like a race, it will be bad anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Collisions... Can a speeder race be a speeder race if there's no collisions ? Personally, I think that's the first step needed, because regardless of lag or anything, if it doesn't feel like a race, it will be bad anyway. Well, perhaps, but I was thinking that the race could be a best time race on a single player track instead of one where multiple players compete....something like what was in KotOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would honestly rather have swoop racing like the original kotor than the pod-racing they mentioned. Server lag would become far less of an issue because it would be more or less individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmblake Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I don't understand why they can't just make it like KotOR. Make it solo and you're racing against other player's times. They could make it ranked like warzones are, and come out with different tracks maybe weekly or something (they could be randomly generated with booster pads and obstacles in different locations, different maps, etc). There would be no "lag" to speak of because it would be one person and not a bunch of people trying to deal with each other. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. It would add pod-racing into the game like we knew in KotOR (which would make sense, since this is an indirect sequel) and would give people a larger variety of things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If it's single player, what's the point? Surely there are more features with some kind of multiplayer aspects that could be conceived and added... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmblake Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If it's single player, what's the point? Surely there are more features with some kind of multiplayer aspects that could be conceived and added... The majority of the game is single-player and can be done as a single-player, they're even going through the Forged Alliances content and making it so singe-player people can do it. It is an MMO that was originally created to be story-driven; I only ever saw it as a single-player game with lots of real-life people running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) The majority of the game is single-player and can be done as a single-player, they're even going through the Forged Alliances content and making it so singe-player people can do it. It is an MMO that was originally created to be story-driven; I only ever saw it as a single-player game with lots of real-life people running around. Right, but all of those have at least some capacity to make them social. That is to say, you can invite 3 people into your story phases and you can group up with other people to do even the Forged Alliance plot lines. Having solo-able options is one thing... developing an exclusively solo feature seems to be the line I'd prefer them not to cross. Edited October 20, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What could make speeder racing feasable? a) Easiest solution: single player Pod/Swoop racing. b) Redo network syncing from scratch. My guess it speeder racing doesn't work due to the way network handling has been designed and coded. Long time ago peeps done some network packet analysis and found out even when one character was just jumping vertically, there was quite a heavy bunch of data been sent to the server. I.e the client was sending much more than only just handling over the Y axis change. They did some improvements but well as long as they have a non optimized client / network sync it can't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 a) Easiest solution: single player Pod/Swoop racing. b) Redo network syncing from scratch. My guess it speeder racing doesn't work due to the way network handling has been designed and coded. Long time ago peeps done some network packet analysis and found out even when one character was just jumping vertically, there was quite a heavy bunch of data been sent to the server. I.e the client was sending much more than only just handling over the Y axis change. They did some improvements but well as long as they have a non optimized client / network sync it can't be done. If they're going to make it solo, I'd almost prefer them to make it a mobile app / app for PC that lets you do a couple races a day for a small credit gain, maybe a 25k total daily cap per account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewan Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What about instead of having active speeder races, having a spectator sport where you manage a racer and watch the result, which would be based on your racer's stats? For example, something your racer might have good speed so they can do bursts, but the opponent has good defense, so they are less likely to get knocked off. The race adds in other players and generates some random opponents, throws in some random events, then you watch the race and see if you win. (This idea is based on the FFXI Chocobo Racing Circuit.) You lose out on the fun of actually driving around the circuit, in exchange for the fun of managing your racing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's going to come off as snark but it's true: a better game client Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I don't know why they even bothered trying to implement Pod Racing. I'd much rather have Swoop Racing like in KOTOR 1 & 2. Edited October 20, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Single player but versus mode - hourly/daily reset on best track times, best time wins a "token". That would be the best way to pretend lag doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Single player but versus mode - hourly/daily reset on best track times, best time wins a "token". That would be the best way to pretend lag doesn't exist. I would think that whatever they did for GSF they could repurpose it to run 4x races of swoop bikes. GSF seems fairly stable, so having 4 swoops racing against each other might be doable. Any more than that might be a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I don't see why it wouldn't be so hard to develop a Super Mario Cart like in game content just for S&Giggles's. Would anyone take it seriously? Maybe... I think it would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would think that whatever they did for GSF they could repurpose it to run 4x races of swoop bikes. GSF seems fairly stable, so having 4 swoops racing against each other might be doable. Any more than that might be a bit much. My guess is ships are way slower than what would be a swoop race to be interesting unless you are more into a loaded donkey and turtles type of races... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Collisions... Can a speeder race be a speeder race if there's no collisions ? Personally, I think that's the first step needed, because regardless of lag or anything, if it doesn't feel like a race, it will be bad anyway. This plus all speeders go the same speed so "..." And they cant realistically add collisions without eliminating push though which would open up a world of grief. You basically can't eliminate push through without forcing on the PvP flag because a player blocking some location cannot be removed by other means and GM response is measured in days not minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I don't understand why they can't just make it like KotOR. Make it solo and you're racing against other player's times. They could make it ranked like warzones are, and come out with different tracks maybe weekly or something (they could be randomly generated with booster pads and obstacles in different locations, different maps, etc). There would be no "lag" to speak of because it would be one person and not a bunch of people trying to deal with each other. I see no reason why they couldn't just do this. It would add pod-racing into the game like we knew in KotOR (which would make sense, since this is an indirect sequel) and would give people a larger variety of things to do. There would be lag (can't do it client side else open up to cheating), but I'd be all for this anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyranos Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) The way players imagine it : You visit a planet or planets and areas that speeder arenas are based... Outside the arenas, are vendors, events (like a theme park), also purchase speeder parts to make it faster or better looking... We can purchase or craft our own speeders with special rare and unique parts, etc. Each 6 months or so, bioware makes speeder racing events with great rewards. The way bioware if they ever do it, will present it to us. A kind of instanced like star fighter arena, without interaction of the real game world, without visiting, watching, buying things . Only with tokens, with no need to craft or modify the way we want the speeders and it will be forgotten in less than a month. Edited October 20, 2014 by Oyranos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I have actually attempted speeder racing with some friends as a way to test an event idea for my guild. As is speeder racing is probably the most balanced way to have a head to head matchup where skill is the only deciding factor. if your hand twitches or you press a turn button to soon you are gonna mess up and lose. Speeder racing as is, currently is also pretty boring unless you find a good place to set up a "track" and you put some kind of reward system behind it. Even then it kinda sucks after a few rounds... I wish I had a suggestion to toss in here, but I don't I just really wish there was a way to make Speeder racing happen, even if we were restricted to just the smaller speeders or the "Reward Speeders" that you get from competing the classic Ops in SM and HM and the classic Flash points. Allowing us to put Dye Modules in those speeders to customize their look would be pretty cool though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyranos Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) If speeder racing gives me the following I would love it, or else I pass (as always). 1) be able to craft or purchase the base model I wish to have... 2) totally modifiable, like the spaceships, for better speeds or better stamina, sabotage the others, etc. 3) many arenas in the form of a stadium in different planets. Not like pvp or GSF with a queue methodology. to move into boards or the specific planets , interact with vendors who sells special parts, crafting mats, etc and if we wish to race, to apply outside the stadium in the racing organizer npc or via boards... The whole point is, to make you feel that u taking part in a racing arena, active way of gameplay... Because the whole queue and instanced thing, is not working, it always makes it borring to be bothered. Things I hate 1) to give me the chance as a new player, with a click of a button to enter the super wow arena with a super wow speeder and race... that is borring 2) everything via tokens this is the passive way of playing speeders... Take an example the conquest, its a proof what players like... Its active and makes u do many things. Even though, most of us do crafting, pvp and fps/ops Not GSF. Edited October 20, 2014 by Oyranos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKasadaRhur Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Here's an idea, Bioware.... Try speeder (pod) racing as a mini warzone event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I would think that whatever they did for GSF they could repurpose it to run 4x races of swoop bikes. GSF seems fairly stable, so having 4 swoops racing against each other might be doable. Any more than that might be a bit much. I would guess... Lag with something like GSF is easier to mask since you are more focused on killing someone with all of the calculations happening server side and being fed back to you. With Pod racing that lag is horrible if you imagine a scenario where you are in first and second place is only 1 second behind you. Issue with pod racing is that they either need to do a major rewrite of their server tech to get things more in sync. Or do what some racing games do. And try to predict what the other person is going to do and hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I would guess... Lag with something like GSF is easier to mask since you are more focused on killing someone with all of the calculations happening server side and being fed back to you. With Pod racing that lag is horrible if you imagine a scenario where you are in first and second place is only 1 second behind you. Issue with pod racing is that they either need to do a major rewrite of their server tech to get things more in sync. Or do what some racing games do. And try to predict what the other person is going to do and hoping for the best. When I am in GSF there can be upwards of 10 or more ships dogfighting in the same area and I don't experience lag. Swoop bike racing you won't need to calculate the third axis and it would be on a predefined track. Limiting to only four racers at a time would make it feasible, plus it would make for a faster queue time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts