One free advanced class change as mitigation for revamping classes

[Deewe]

Honestly I personally don't care for the AC change if they don't add it.

Although I would have indeed welcomed one or two tokens.

 

But then don't come back later on when you find out the changes were deeper than you thought they would and the 12x XP boost is a not alive anymore.

 

Because you asked for this.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Deewe

[Essence_of_Light]

Honestly I personally don't care for the AC change if they don't add it.

Although II would have indeed welcomed one or two tokens.

 

But then don't come back later on when you find out the changes were deeper than you thought they would and the 12x XP boost is a not alive anymore.

 

Because you asked for this.

 

Kay

 

/5char

Edited October 8, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[Malastare]

@ Malastare wont Disciple system reduce the FotM chances since developer can balance the class more easily/predictably and not have to worry about over powered hybrid builds?

 

It should, yes. FotM will always exist, because its an expression of human behavior, not game rules. However, the removal of hybrids, or rather: the removal of the ability to invest skill points in the major skills of multiple trees, will make it far easier to balance the game and we should see less instances of players with imbalanced combinations of skills.

 

I'd still like to see hybrid classes, and I sincerely hope that we see a few hybrid Disciplines show up in the future. No need to redesign all the abilities, just assemble a hybrid Discipline from existing abilities. I wouldn't expect it at launch (let them see the thing in action before they add new stuff...), but it would be a nice option down the road.

[Sorwen]

I'm all for a one time change even though I have no reason to use it. The whole "No AC change" was way back before they were totally changing the system. Allowing a one time change because of it makes total sense. The change to the system make the possible need to change AC a Customer Service and QoL issue.

 

I do worry where my Guardian is going to sit with the forced into roles the new system is going to create, but an AC change wouldn't save me from that.

[Deewe]

I do worry where my Guardian is going to sit with the forced into roles the new system is going to create, but an AC change wouldn't save me from that.

I read ya then again the AC change would have been only a mitigation and a gesture from BioWare.

 

As well as some people welcome changes, 97% hate it because our brain is lazy and always takes the easiest, i.e. well known, route

Edited October 8, 2014 by Deewe

[azudelphi]

I'm all for a one time change even though I have no reason to use it. The whole "No AC change" was way back before they were totally changing the system. Allowing a one time change because of it makes total sense. The change to the system make the possible need to change AC a Customer Service and QoL issue.

 

I do worry where my Guardian is going to sit with the forced into roles the new system is going to create, but an AC change wouldn't save me from that.

 

What new roles?

 

You currently have Tank and DPS as your roles because you have 2 DPS trees (Focus and Vigilance) and 1 Tank tree (Defense).

 

In 3.0 you will have 2 DPS Disciplines (Vigilance and Focus; Focus may be renamed but essentially the same) and 1 Tank Discipline (Defense).

[Reno_Tarshil]

Really Reno? This is all you can add?

 

He just made a thread yesterday saying how he was unsubbing and waiting for his sub time to run out, so why would he care about asking for this if he's just going to leave?

[MillionsKNives]

What new roles?

 

You currently have Tank and DPS as your roles because you have 2 DPS trees (Focus and Vigilance) and 1 Tank tree (Defense).

 

In 3.0 you will have 2 DPS Disciplines (Vigilance and Focus; Focus may be renamed but essentially the same) and 1 Tank Discipline (Defense).

 

I think he's talking about being a DPS/Tank. So that he could do both roles and be terrible at both of them. Or at least that's what I've gotten from those lamenting the fact that they'll be stuck in a certain role.

Edited October 8, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Heezdedjim]

What new roles?

This. There are none.

[azudelphi]

I think he's talking about being a DPS/Tank. So that he could do both roles and be terrible at both of them. Or at least that's what I've gotten from those lamenting the fact that they'll be stuck in a certain role.

 

Well, as I understand it... a tank has an advantage at the moment by skipping some of their tank trees to go into another tree for a survivability utility-type thing. Example, going for Shock Absorbers in the Tactics Tree to reduce AoE damage by 30%.

 

My guess is that moving forward, a pure built Vanguard will have access to that ability through the Utilities section. So the identity of a tank is as designed and they can reduce aoe damage for fights where that is applicable.

[Anzel]

I can't wait to see the rest of the live streams so I can decide how to switch my AC's around. I hope they announce details of the AC switch soon.

[azudelphi]

I can't wait to see the rest of the live streams so I can decide how to switch my AC's around. I hope they announce details of the AC switch soon.

 

Just to clarify... this thread is based on a request for an AC switch. There aren't any signs that there will actually be an AC change in 3.0.

[Jaxtes]

I can't wait to see the rest of the live streams so I can decide how to switch my AC's around. I hope they announce details of the AC switch soon.

 

I like your confidence Anzel can you give me some.

[Sorwen]

I think he's talking about being a DPS/Tank. So that he could do both roles and be terrible at both of them. Or at least that's what I've gotten from those lamenting the fact that they'll be stuck in a certain role.

I was fine at both. Soloed to 55 that way with no problems and it made it easier then dealing with "pure" builds. It may not be the min/max or god raid build, but I don't raid so couldn't care less. It may not have lived up to whatever elite standard you feel it should have, but I had no complaints.

 

As to the original question as to new roles I mean what ever comes out of the forced progression of the AC. While they said they are using some of the existing powers they've removed and added others. That makes them new even if the end result is still a tank it isn't the same tank that people chose to play the character for in the first place. We are not talking some minor changes to a tree this time, but a total recreation how ACs work.

 

As I said it doesn't affect me as I wouldn't switch my AC, but I can understand why some might.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Sorwen

[azudelphi]

I was fine at both. Soloed to 55 that way with no problems and it made it easier then dealing with "pure" builds. It may not be the min/max or god raid build, but I don't raid so couldn't care less. It may not have lived up to whatever elite standard you feel it should have, but I had no complaints.

 

As to the original question as to new roles I mean what ever comes out of the forced progression of the AC. While they said they are using some of the existing powers they've removed and added others. That makes them new even if the end result is still a tank it isn't the same tank that people chose to play the character for in the first place. We are not talking some minor changes to a tree this time, but a total recreation how ACs work. As I said it doesn't affect me as I wouldn't switch my AC, but I can understand why some might.

 

What you are referring to in the 2nd paragraph isn't "role", it's "identity". From that standpoint, the class designers have stated that while each will be tweaked, the identity of pure builds are going to remained unchanged. In essence, the tank will be the same tank, the dps will be the same dps. Not identical, but with a 5 level increase, new abilities were inevitable anyways.

[EvenHardNiner]

He just made a thread yesterday saying how he was unsubbing and waiting for his sub time to run out, so why would he care about asking for this if he's just going to leave?

 

If he made a thread yesterday, why didn't you post in that one? By posting in this thread and saying that, you've gone completely off topic and have contributed nothing to this thread, and you are obviously trying to get a negative response from the OP and you're trying to start an argument. I'm just telling you how it is.

Edited October 8, 2014 by EvenHardNiner

[LordArtemis]

Well, I was disappointed to see they would keep the current roles in place (I wanted to see tank/healer/dps roles in each AC) I am very happy to see that AC change is, at least for now, not an option.

 

I hope that this new system finally gives real meaning to your AC choice.

[Reno_Tarshil]

If he made a thread yesterday, why didn't you post in that one? By posting in this thread and saying that, you've gone completely off topic and have contributed nothing to this thread, and you are obviously trying to get a negative response from the OP and you're trying to start an argument. I'm just telling you how it is.

 

Stop going off topic with your personal attacks.

[Sangrar]

2) Classes don't change

• They do. Ex: no more assassin madness. So if you where more into madness than assassin you then have to roll a new character.
  

 

In the live stream they pointed out they changed the name, and altered the skills specifically to fit assassins, but in essence its still madness, just from now on it will differ from the madness that Sorcerers have to allow different balancing to match each classes needs.

 

 

to sum it up, its madness but with a new name and more of an assassin specific focus

[theUndead]

If he made a thread yesterday, why didn't you post in that one? By posting in this thread and saying that, you've gone completely off topic and have contributed nothing to this thread, and you are obviously trying to get a negative response from the OP and you're trying to start an argument. I'm just telling you how it is.

 

No your not. You're doing exactly what you think he is doing. Going off topic and restoring to personal attacks. See if someone makes a thread, says they are unsubbing, then makes more threads on very stupid ideas, then yes it is perfectly reasonable to have someone, in this case Reno call them out on it. You're the one attempting to start an argument not him.

[Deewe]

He just made a thread yesterday saying how he was unsubbing and waiting for his sub time to run out, so why would he care about asking for this if he's just going to leave?

Actually I didn't. Seems to me you miss identified me for someone else, but no big deal here

 

Then again as mentioned above, I don't mind there won't be AC changes even if I would have welcomed a few tokens.

 

But then I foresee some forum agitation when people will find out the true changes and associated impact. Especially when the XP buff will be off and players will realise rolling atls will make them not having all perks they had on their former character: gear, pets, mounts and so on.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Deewe

[Sangrar]

Actually I didn't. Seems to me you miss identified me for someone else, but no big deal here

 

Then again as mentioned above, I don't mind there won't be AC changes even if I would have welcomed a few tokens.

 

But then I foresee some forum agitation when people will find out the true changes an associated impact. Especially when the XP buff will be off and players will realise rolling atls will make them not having all perks they had on their former character: gear, pets, mounts and so on.

 

I do not even know if it is possible to change advanced classes, doesn't that decision affect your character for the rest of the game or something? we do not know how its built exactly but advanced class might affect more than we realize. And if for whatever reason the system was made that way, we cannot expect bioware to go that far out of the way for something that we were told at the beginning was permanent and that as an MMO was always subject to change

 

 

Either way, advanced classes have always had balancing tweaks and changes done before. We never needed an advanced class change. Even certain abilities and skills have been added and removed. And all in all the classes are still geared towards the same combat roles.

 

And again, as I said, only the name "madness" for assassins has changed. beneath it its the same spec geared toward the same playstyle except more geared specifically for assassins than to be shared between two different classes with different sets of abilities. So basically only the names and the system for skills, or should I now say disciplines have changed, the rest is balancing stuff that would probably have happened anyway.

[Sorwen]

Honestly if they were going this way I would have preferred they go the whole way and get rid of ACs all together. Let path, utility, and gear choice dictate it. Its like the weapon restrictions on some powers, it all makes no sense. ACs are also a bigger root of balance issues than the actual individual trees. You have the classes fighting themselves for balance even before you try vs the other classes. Edited October 8, 2014 by Sorwen

[Jaxtes]

I do not even know if it is possible to change advanced classes, doesn't that decision affect your character for the rest of the game or something?

 

As far as most of people have notices it only affects PvP achievements everything else is tied to your base class or faction.

[Jadescythe]

Honestly if they were going this way I would have preferred they go the whole way and get rid of ACs all together. Let path, utility, and gear choice dictate it. Its like the weapon restrictions on some powers, it all makes no sense. ACs are also a bigger root of balance issues than the actual individual trees. You have the classes fighting themselves for balance even before you try vs the other classes.

 

To be fair, the weapon restrictions at this point are because there are about 6 bajillion abilities in the game and they would have to recreate animations for all of them for single/double sabers.