DON'T DO IT. Level Increase and Skill tree removal for Dicsiplines concept

[Drake_Hound]

shaman and hunters are OP af on WoW right now...

 

I don't care about being OP, I didn't like the mechanics how much it changed for those two classes.

Anyway since I don't have anything to take care off anymore in MMO, I can say for myself.

He I don't like it, why am I even playing it?

 

Solves a lot of heated arguments with people, who really care.

They love it so be it, I don't like it, I don't have to play it.

The faster people understand that, the more time we can laugh about things.

 

Laughing is healthy for everybody , I mean to die of laughter I can't imagine a beter way to depart this world

[robertthebard]

It's funny, because this is what's got me looking forward to actually playing my 55s again. They've been sitting around, running dailies when I need credits for crafting, for months, because there's no sense of advancement. Now I'll be able to have that back, for 5 levels anyway. So I'm looking forward to it.

 

The changes to the skills doesn't bother me much either. I'll play around with it, figure out what I like, and go from there.

[Diefenbaker]

So you were right about 2 things. Wow. Amazing. I'm sure every game dev will want to make their design decisions from now on.

 

Other MMORPGs did such changes as well and it worked for them. It worked for LOTRO, it worked for WoW. Sure, WoW is no longer where it used to be subscriber wise, but that is primarily because every Tom, Dick and Harry is now making MMORPGs (which I personally really don't like), thus there is more competition and more stuff for people to check out. And even then, WoW is still dominating the market.

 

As for Galaxies, will people ever stop beating that dead horse? Galaxies failed for a lot more reasons than just the class changes.

 

Also, your try hard superiority and pretend knowledge is very boring and putting me to sleep.

[jedip_enguin]

Releveling and regearing all my 55's doesn't

sound like fun, so I'll probably go FTP or quit.

 

This your first MMO or something? The gear/level treadmill has been a fundamental part of most MMO's for some time now.

 

If you cant make your peace with this then most MMO's are going to upset you.

[Drake_Hound]

It's funny, because this is what's got me looking forward to actually playing my 55s again. They've been sitting around, running dailies when I need credits for crafting, for months, because there's no sense of advancement. Now I'll be able to have that back, for 5 levels anyway. So I'm looking forward to it.

 

The changes to the skills doesn't bother me much either. I'll play around with it, figure out what I like, and go from there.

 

The changes to the 5 levels doesn't bother me. The changes to the skill not really for most of my toons.

But then again as said before, it really doesn't affect me either way, if I find something not fun.

I simply stop playing it, enough things I can do with my free time.

 

So if the skill changes are not to my liking, I just stop buying prepay cards and go do something else more fun with my time, just like now am just posting on the forums, while playing other games.

Am curious about developers response to this issue.

[Drake_Hound]

So you were right about 2 things. Wow. Amazing. I'm sure every game dev will want to make their design decisions from now on.

 

Other MMORPGs did such changes as well and it worked for them. It worked for LOTRO, it worked for WoW. Sure, WoW is no longer where it used to be subscriber wise, but that is primarily because every Tom, Dick and Harry is now making MMORPGs (which I personally really don't like), thus there is more competition and more stuff for people to check out. And even then, WoW is still dominating the market.

 

As for Galaxies, will people ever stop beating that dead horse? Galaxies failed for a lot more reasons than just the class changes.

 

Also, your try hard superiority and pretend knowledge is very boring and putting me to sleep.

 

LOTRO it worked well? Lmao it didn't really bring in the influx they wanted.

MOP people came back for one more time the wow magic, instead common complaint I heard from them.

The system was too simple and boring, even from lazy nolife people who like things simple.

If WoW MOP was such a great hit, while all the bleeding,

 

When people said WOTLK was a failure after Ulduar, I said no while boring the arena raids, it will bring back more people. WOTLK number proof all those forum haters wrong, that without hardcore there isn't a wow.

So how much hype hate want to hate WOTLK the subscription and income went up.

Same as how much you hate tortanic, the game is doing well and very well and stable, without all those hate posters.

 

Infact I can only see growth with 5 more levels , since it is a soft reset for everybody.

But changing skill tree is like a hard reset ( and I hope I am wrong it isn't done to dumb the game down)

Look need more info then a covered screen shot, maybe they covered it for a reason.

Cause showing a uncovered one, if you think the system would be great shows veteran swtor players enough. Especially the utilities.

[MsMalice]

I'd rather they add new content and a level increase than not, otherwise the game gets boring and there'll be nothing left to do. The only thing I hate is the amount of money it'll cost me to re-augment all my gear again ugh, and I just started gearing my sniper! I also don't like the disciplines idea but what can you do? They'll be new ops, skills, leveling area, daily areas and eventually new pvp maps (I hope). :)

[Aries_cz]

Look need more info then a covered screen shot, maybe they covered it for a reason.

Cause showing a uncovered one, if you think the system would be great shows veteran swtor players enough. Especially the utilities.

 

I will agree with you on this one thing - we need more info how it is going to be implemented, before jumping to conclusions (which is what you sort of did). We know next to nothing about the system, except it is going to give you the main abilities (which you had to take) by itself, and allow you to make some tweaks to fit your playstyle. So sort of like the talent trees are now, but with removal of hybrids, which are a nightmare to balance.

 

The image is not covered on purpose, it is an art mockup (the watermark gives it away), something pretty common in any kind of layout development, when you do no know how exactly is it going to look yet, or what stuff is going to be where.

 

Let us see what the stream today will show, and then start raising hell, mkey?

 

Oh, and a sidenote: predicting GW2 and Wildstar to be flops was not that unique nor hard

Edited October 7, 2014 by Aries_cz

[deltadt]

OP, if you find the idea of 5 more levels painful, the problem is that you're burned out and need to take a break from this game. Not all of us are sick and tired of it, and some of us are really excited about the 5 new levels. I suggest you unsub and uninstall for a few months. When you come back, everything will seem better.

 

unsubbing is one thing but taking it off the hard drive and then putting it back on after a few months for this game with it's size is not the best idea unless your at the point where your done with game and not planing to come back to it.

[Drake_Hound]

Lmao GW2 to be a flop was not unique man people were so hyped up by it. LoL

You should have been there at that time, it was going to be the WOW killer, after tortanic,

 

And I have been with wow for more then 8 years, I also know the third year things were dying down.

Infact burning crusade brought magic back to wow.

 

Look at GW2 now for all that hype and nerd trolls, who ever said they were wrong

None of those dweeps. Really SWTOR made a mistake by releasing us to level 50.

But one mistake we as gamers should be greatfull for, even if it costed us a lot of DEV people.

Infact if they released to level 35 (the part where things were still polished and done) waited 6 months to release to 50 SWTOR would have been in a different shape that at no cost at all to anybody.

 

Infact it would have done the casual 1 million people and biowarefans much beter service preparing them for MMO experience. By letting them gear up properly instead of rushing undergeared and underskilled (especially companion wise) trough belsavis and voss.

 

See simple decisions that means life or death, saying till level 35 wasn't enough. Sorry first 2 million people wanted a story mmo, no fun in stories if you can't finish it.

 

See my view points differ from a lot of people view points. But who was beter in the end?

[well]

And trust me am not wrong about those things, especially with this community involved.

SWTOR carved it's own niche in the market, and this will upset the regulars more then anything else.

 

Then any pvp or pve balance. We grown to love this system cause of the indepth and the possibility of overpoweredness.

And honestly nobody is asking for perfect balance, just combat those cheaters more.

Which is already a impossible task maybe, but changing the skill tree at this point in the game.

Is major NOT a thing to do.

 

ah well this is my conclusion and people may disagree, but I am usually right about those things.

Don't think you will reverse decision but trust me, the work put into making the new tree pales with the number of layoff next year, cause of bleeding subs.

 

People might get older and less skilled, but the younger generation love learning curves and exploiting.

Skill tree is one that put those things into perspectief while in a controlled envoirement. (aside from those cheats)

 

Are you French or do you have a mouse in your pocket? You have the right to you opinion not mine.

[Drake_Hound]

Are you French or do you have a mouse in your pocket? You have the right to you opinion not mine.

 

You have right to have a opnion about me, without racist remark murican swallow some more meds and eat some GMO junk.

 

They are healthy for you lmao assumptions two can play this game,

[VinceTam]

For some one that doesn't care any more, Drake_Hound sure is a prolific poster lmao!!!

[Aries_cz]

Hype is not the same as cynical predictions, a good stand I took from TotalBiscuit. It is good to be excited, but be skeptical about everything.

I was not in GW2 (because I do not like "Tolkien-ish" fantasy that much, and I was not interested in what they said they have), but I was here on the forums, and I read most of the predictions... It was fantasy MMO (place from which WoW is not going to fall off any time soon), and not that much interesting stuff presented. Extrapolating a "this is going to suck" result from that is not difficult.

I was with WoW, but on a private (read, illegal) server with TBC, so I cannot really judge how it was, but I did read some pretty crazy horror stories about early days. And I got turned off by WotLK, which done things to lore I just hated (not to mention, all my gear was suddenly worthless and inferior to random greens from mobs, bleh).

 

As to SWTOR waiting to release, I will agree, that it should have been released when stuff from 1.2 was done. What SWTOR did not have was endgame most people expected (and BW assumed they had more time, not accounting for majority of players to put the crazy amount of hours we did when it launched). You do not see that many complaints from people who got to max level around 1.2, or started playing after that.

But stuff up to level 50 was done good and was possible, what was absent was the stuff after. So holding at level 35 would probably do more harm than good.

 

I will not claim I was skilled MMO player, nor that I was well geared (getting mods was a pain before The Great Commendation Unification), but I never had any problems with story or planetary missions anywhere. I did die few times, sure, but mostly because I cocked up something, like interrupting the guy who was bringing down the cavern ceiling at my head, or pulling more than I could few, etc...

Edited October 7, 2014 by Aries_cz

[howieloader]

For some one that doesn't care any more, Drake_Hound sure is a prolific poster lmao!!!

 

I really hope English is not his native language... I challenge you to find one sentence he's posted without at least two errors...

[Drake_Hound]

For some one that doesn't care any more, Drake_Hound sure is a prolific poster lmao!!!

 

I do things that I think is fun, having fun doesn't mean I care!

As long I can laugh about things, and this is just a way of free enlightment

 

Others charge you money to have a mistakes pointed out or hindsight explained.

In the meantime am just having fun.

[Drake_Hound]

Hype is not the same as cynical predictions, a good stand I took from TotalBiscuit. It is good to be excited, but be skeptical about everything.

I was not in GW2 (because I do not like "Tolkien-ish" fantasy that much, and I was not interested in what they said they have), but I was here on the forums, and I read most of the predictions... It was fantasy MMO (place from which WoW is not going to fall off any time soon), and not that much interesting stuff presented. Extrapolating a "this is going to suck" result from that is not difficult.

I was with WoW, but on a private (read, illegal) server with TBC, so I cannot really judge how it was, but I did read some pretty crazy horror stories about early days. And I got turned off by WotLK, which done things to lore I just hated (not to mention, all my gear was suddenly worthless and inferior to random greens from mobs, bleh).

 

As to SWTOR waiting to release, I will agree, that it should have been released when stuff from 1.2 was done. What SWTOR did not have was endgame most people expected (and BW assumed they had more time, not accounting for majority of players to put the crazy amount of hours we did when it launched). You do not see that many complaints from people who got to max level around 1.2, or started playing after that.

But stuff up to level 50 was done good and was possible, what was absent was the stuff after. So holding at level 35 would probably do more harm than good.

 

I will not claim I was skilled MMO player, nor that I was well geared (getting mods was a pain before The Great Commendation Unification), but I never had any problems with story or planetary missions anywhere. I did die few times, sure, but mostly because I cocked up something, like interrupting the guy who was bringing down the cavern ceiling at my head, or pulling more than I could few, etc...

 

This is where your experience and mine differ, was in beta so leveled to 29 I think in one day, had to redo it at headstart finished roughly around 50 in 3 days, then replayed again at EU cause back then there was no possibility of raiding in the states or even finishing endgame HM with the latency problems.

 

So I gotten to know two types of people those early birds who were same as me "hardcore"

And the late comers who are more casual, the early birds most of them sticked around.

The casual had problems huge problems, cause they are not the MMO people that beg for help ask for help.

They are selfsufficient people in RL, why you put those with level 25 gear into belsavis where all they did was DIE die die in a buggy too hard aerea.

 

Same story as makeb why the boost suddenly for the casuals the cleaning up of mobs ? It was way too. Difficult for casual crowd that setting, some people still have problems soloing omnicron or heroics, when all my toons can do it.

It doesn't make me a beter player, just beter understanding of mechanics.

Also beter understanding why certain people cannot solo stuff, will never be able to solo stuff.

 

Now general consensus this game was released too early, sure but how long you going yo keep it in beta after 7 years? The consensus that releasing unfinished buggy content works for hardcore.

But not for the casuals. Sure we will see with the new 2 planets released the same flaw as makeb and omnicron.

Why cause it is in there interest the first weeks to make things hard !

How many will be turned off by that hardness or hate leveling race, how many even hate to die during questing let alone PvP (dying is part of the fun )

 

Let alone how many are skilled enough to tank or heal undergeared in HM? Let alone undergeared get max dps out of there toon. People only remember the success or what they want to remember.

But I always see it from two points of view, and cause I don't care anymore . Can be even more objective!

[Turajin]

So don't buy the expansion and you won't have to. Stay at lvl 55 and play the game as you have been.

Hmmm... actually, that is the question: while levelling up to lvl 60 will be part of the expansion, will the new discipline system be a part of the game only for those who ordered the expansion, or will that part be a general update for the whole game (with and without expansion)?

 

In other words: will both systems be in the game parallel to each other (since some people buy the expansion and some don't)?`An if, how will these two systems be balanced among each other?

[Drake_Hound]

Hmmm... actually, that is the question: while levelling up to lvl 60 will be part of the expansion, will the new discipline system be a part of the game only for those who ordered the expansion, or will that part be a general update for the whole game (with and without expansion)?

 

In other words: will both systems be in the game parallel to each other (since some people buy the expansion and some don't)?`An if, how will these two systems be balanced among each other?

 

This is a simple fact, the new discipline will be forced onto all, they can't have two different core mechanics running side by side. Would be totally unbalancing the principle of the biggest selling point of new system.

 

Making the game easier for the new people who cannot cross the treshhold of difficulty.

But those same people who cannot cross that treshhold will not enjoy endgame either!

So waste of time , they are not dumb or stupid people, infact nope they just don't see the point of chasing a carrot

Edited October 7, 2014 by Drake_Hound

[Aries_cz]

Ok, I was not that hardcore, it took me about 7 days of /played to get to level 50 (IIRC, it has been a while), but I did not skip most conversations, I believe I even did all heroics on most planets, before I ran too far ahead of most population.

As a side note, I also was in beta for a short amount of time (back when there was EA branch in Czech Republic, they gave me a "preview access" for a while), but I think I had to cut it short when ending Republic Taris (obligated to by the review access demands)

 

On the point of people being undergeared. I have to admit I have never seen ANYONE this early in the game to be so undergeared on Belsavis, because they would have ran into problems much earlier. Personally, I used up all my planet comms when leaving the specific planet to get few pieces of gear (mainly mods for my pants, as I hated skirts on my Sage), but most of it was drops and it was enough.

 

As for bugs making stuff undoable, I will admit I had to be among the fortunate ones, who did hot hit any sort of problems like that (I recall maybe one time on Belsavis, where the area bugged out on me when camera was pointed in a specific way, which lead to boss murdering me, but that is it)

 

Cleaning up mobs on Makeb is a interesting thing, but it was a major complaint since day one, because it was a sharp contrast to other planets, and people were not used to something kicking them down from speeders all the time.

Soloing Heroics on your own is pretty difficult, and you can do it only because you are overgeared for the content and understand mechanics (it is much harder to clear Oricon in Rakatan gear (Makeb mod vendor) than it is in 180s). And Oricon is pretty specific in that you must use interrupts, stuns and abilities that lot of people are not accustomed to from their solo play (which is not a bad thing in my opinion, but these lessons should come sooner).

[robertthebard]

This is a simple fact, the new discipline will be forced onto all, they can't have two different core mechanics running side by side. Would be totally unbalancing the principle of the biggest selling point of new system.

 

Making the game easier for the new people who cannot cross the treshhold of difficulty.

But those same people who cannot cross that treshhold will not enjoy endgame either!

So waste of time , they are not dumb or stupid people, infact nope they just don't see the point of chasing a carrot

 

That's not much of a prediction, since they state that it will be implemented game wide on release.

 

Not a stupid question at all! You do not need to purchase the expansion to get Disciplines. They will roll out, game-wide, with the launch of 3.0. You can find more details on that towards the bottom of the Shadow of Revan page.

 

-eric

 

Source

[Leafy_Bug]

I look at this thread and ask myself how many are scared more of them messing up rather than the introduction of this new concept? Am I the minority here who thinks they will mess it up big time given their track record? I would sit back and accept BW's failure when we will transition to this new system but the way they fix things freaks me out.

 

BW does not test thoroughly the most basic of functions and we end up beta testing them on live servers. How can we even fathom a positive outcome with this system? This will break the game so badly when people will find a combination of 'utility skills' that will make them breeze through content and pvp.

 

Are we forgetting the numerous bolster fiascos that took 6 months to fix? This overhaul, whilst needed, is a big change and I do not see Austin's team having the resources to do it right. Call me whatever insult you may want but one thing is certain : wishful thinking to believe that they will not mess this up.

[t-darko]

This is a warning to you.

 

Don't Do It !!!!!!

 

Level increase and Skill tree removal in same update?

 

You are going to break TOR financially by doing this.

This will then cause the eventual downfall of TOR in

a very short time.

 

Level increase is painfull enough, but to change very

structure of the game at the same time is utter madness.

 

There is no point to Level increase except as a Business

to delay people, from being maxxed out on stats.

 

As for the ditching of a tried and true system, for a Next Gen

concept, is maybe not that bad, but to do it, at the same time

is exactly the kinda of thinking that crippled a previous Star Wars

MMORPG, Star Wars Galaxies, when it introduced the NGE.

 

Of course we all know how well that worked out.

 

BTW it was a TRAGIC failure

 

Releveling and regearing all my 55's doesn't

sound like fun, so I'll probably go FTP or quit.

 

I do not know what i will do, but i hate supporting stupidity financially.

 

Can I have your stuff . . . ?

[Prototypemind]

I look at this thread and ask myself how many are scared more of them messing up rather than the introduction of this new concept? Am I the minority here who thinks they will mess it up big time given their track record? I would sit back and accept BW's failure when we will transition to this new system but the way they fix things freaks me out.

 

BW does not test thoroughly the most basic of functions and we end up beta testing them on live servers. How can we even fathom a positive outcome with this system? This will break the game so badly when people will find a combination of 'utility skills' that will make them breeze through content and pvp.

 

Are we forgetting the numerous bolster fiascos that took 6 months to fix? This overhaul, whilst needed, is a big change and I do not see Austin's team having the resources to do it right. Call me whatever insult you may want but one thing is certain : wishful thinking to believe that they will not mess this up.

 

Honestly, this is my biggest concern. They will be rolling out new content, including new Ops and new HM FPs, which will certainly bring players back and have old players--myself included--finding more reason to play. At the same time, they will be introducing a major change to the game, something that has yet to be pulled off in any MMO without hitches. There have generally been problems here even with implementing small tweaks to a few classes at a time, so I can't say that I have much faith in a change to the core of all classes and abilities going off without a hitch.

 

I can't say that the thought of trying to do new top-level content on a new system exactly seems exciting. It will be all the worse if it screws up things like set bonuses, i.e., somehow making certain ones no longer viable and some ridiculously OP. Better to be a pessimist for now and be pleasantly surprised later I suppose =p

[Eldrenath]

So you were right about 2 things. Wow. Amazing. I'm sure every game dev will want to make their design decisions from now on.

 

Other MMORPGs did such changes as well and it worked for them. It worked for LOTRO, it worked for WoW.

 

Are you referring to LOTRO's class changes since their last expansion pack in late 2013? If so I will have to respectfully but vehemently disagree with you, and my experience in LOTRO is the only reason I am wary of these class changes. It most certainly did not work out for LOTRO: the system in its implementation saw a huge reduction in the number of skills available, and massively dumbed down play. There was definitely a problem with skill bloat in LOTRO, but they used a cleaver instead of a scalpel. Characters lost TONS of skills, and the number of things you could do was hugely reduced.

 

And the result was not good at all for LOTRO. Shortly after the expansion they had huge layoffs. Content release slowed down. There has been no mention of another expansion. Many are now complaining of dead servers. In my personal experience, the guild I had been in since 2007, with almost the same leadership since launch, left LOTRO. Granted, the skill revamp was not the only thing: there were other significant factors, such as the fact that they released no new instances or raids at the new level cap. But the class changes were not popular, and I really don't think anyone would have considered them a success.

 

My experience in LOTRO is the only reason I'm really wary of this change. If it truly means we can pick and choose more but still have the same amount of skills then I'll be happy. If it means that now I have 50-75% fewer skills on my hotbar, I will not be happy at all. I just don't want the ESO experience. I loved that game, the story, the look, the classes. But only having 5 skill hotbar killed it for me. Made it soooooo boring.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Eldrenath