Please Consider Adding a Solo Version of Forged Alliances

[midianlord]

Yeah, I'm late to the party, but I haven't seen it specifically in the thread yet, so:

 

Could you guys scale the end-missions of the Seeds of Rage/The Shroud arcs to group size, including solo?

 

Specifically, these:

 

Empire -- [HEROIC 4] The Alchemy of Evil, and [HEROIC 4] All the Pieces + The Shroud's Last Stand

Republic -- [HEROIC 4] Uprooting the Last Seed, and [HEROIC 4] Dark Design + The Shroud Revealed

 

Every other mission in those arcs does this, but the end ones don't, and I'd like to finally not carry them around from when 2.0 was barely dropped :/

 

(I don't mind having to group for this or that on occasion, but the problem with these is that most of the rewards are kinda "meh," as far as incentive to group goes, but the main problem is that no-one --and I mean no-one-- seems to want to make a group for those, and never has.)

Edited October 11, 2014 by midianlord

[Raansu]

No, that game had something forced and artificial.

 

Or do you consider community by definition to be something people only do when they're forced to combine their efforts just to survive?

 

Anyone who has played FFXI will tell you hands down that game had the strongest and best community out of any MMO. Everything required teamwork/grouping up and I made a ton of friends in that game because you had to actually SOCIALIZE to do anything. SWTOR everyone just solos and does their own thing. You have to go out of your way to get any sense of community in this game and almost every game since the days of WoW.

 

If I wanted to solo everything I'd play a single player game. There was no greater reward than working as a team to down kirin back in the day. Good two hour long fight fighting 5 other bosses at the same time while trying to burn down kirin.

[DarthDymond]

Anyone who has played FFXI will tell you hands down that game had the strongest and best community out of any MMO. Everything required teamwork/grouping up and I made a ton of friends in that game because you had to actually SOCIALIZE to do anything.

FFXI game that way -------->

[Raansu]

FFXI game that way -------->

 

< Still plays it.

[Ad-Astra]

Yeah, I'm late to the party, but I haven't seen it specifically in the thread yet, so:

 

Could you guys scale the end-missions of the Seeds of Rage/The Shroud arcs to group size, including solo?

 

Specifically, these:

 

Empire -- [HEROIC 4] The Alchemy of Evil, and [HEROIC 4] All the Pieces + The Shroud's Last Stand

Republic -- [HEROIC 4] Uprooting the Last Seed, and [HEROIC 4] Dark Design + The Shroud Revealed

 

Every other mission in those arcs does this, but the end ones don't, and I'd like to finally not carry them around from when 2.0 was barely dropped :/

 

(I don't mind having to group for this or that on occasion, but the problem with these is that most of the rewards are kinda "meh," as far as incentive to group goes, but the main problem is that no-one --and I mean no-one-- seems to want to make a group for those, and never has.)

 

I agree with this,still have these missions in my log, cant do them as cannot get a group to do it, the loot is Linda meh, and don't drop often, attempted solo, silly idea, cost me alot in damage repairs. Level 60 inc might help, and increase in gear and mods might help later. I cam only wait and hope to finish these.

[theUndead]

Your comment about less people grouping, if they don't have to, to me, stated that you prefer people being grouped, regardless of whether that is to their preference or not. I may not have understood it in the way you mean it, and if so, I apologize, but that is what it implied, when I read it.

 

It might have been the way I wrote it. What I meant to say was that yes, I prefer grouping, but that does not mean others have to do it if they do not wish it. I was simply pointing out that I believe if a group heavy instance had a solo option with say the same rewards for example that would take away the carrot for raiding groups IMO.

 

 

I am saying, that compared to making new content, adapting existing things, should take comparatively less time. And for those players, who would gain access to existing content because of such a feature, it would be new content. If that causes a delay of some months for other content, then personally I can live with it. Though I understand perfectly well, that there would be heated arguments about it. To me it is all about giving and getting. I don't mind giving to the soloist, even if I have to wait a bit longer for new content myself. There might even be a few flashpoints I'd get to explore more in depth with such a feature. Though not many.. But this is my personal opinion and I respect fully, that we will always disagree.

 

You and I will have to disagree on the point about time management. See to me, if a major update is delayed for whatever reason, it is detrimental to the community as a whole. I also do not like waiting too long for new content. Yes I am extremely patient but I feel this might just add an even longer wait and that to me, is worrying. I am not saying that the devs should not consider it, I am just expressing how I would take it. You seem to be okay with it, while I wouldn't be.

 

All games evolve, even TOR. And while it might not have seemed a good idea to the DEVs in the beginning, why should they not, at some point, change their point of view? Plenty of other games developers have.

 

You are correct on this point. I need to remember that even hardcore philosophies may change with time.

 

I am not sure where exactly you got this from. But you understood it from something I wrote and so, I'll address it. Of course there should be new content focused around groups. I just hope that that same content would also be accessible to soloists. One does not exclude the other, if the content is instanced and provided with different settings and thus a possibility for different mechanics.

 

As for being a MMO, the very idea of MMOs seem to be changing these years from catering to hardcore players and primarily grouped play, to a more casual-friendly approach, with cooperative and solo play in the focus. (Note a distinguish between group-play and cooperative play. ESO and GW2 are great examples of that difference)

More and more players seem to fall into the casual category, just as more and more players seem to prefer an abundance of solo content. Because of that, more and more devs cater to these types of players, since apparently, this is where the money is. I do not think this wrong, in fact I like the change.. And yes, we will probably disagree on that as well. I'm perfectly alright with that.

 

Should there not be group content then? Of course there should. There will always be a lot of players, who prefer such content, even if they/we, in time, are no longer the majority. But content can be made available to both soloists, group-casuals and group-hardcores at the same time. That is the approach I'm advocating. Will it take somewhat longer to make? It might, in fact it probably will.. Is the delay worth it, to let the content be available to a wider range of players? I strongly believe so

 

I suppose I am one of those players that miss the days when all activities in an MMO were group orientated. Yes, I concede that times are changing and better or worse companies are in fact catering to the more casual player. This is the nature of change I suppose. So while I maintain my opinion I will acknowledge that you have a very valid point in this regard. So no we do not disagree completely.

 

I have said before that I am in fact glad that pure soloist players do in fact get content they enjoy. I am not advocating for that content to be removed or anything like that. I am simply saying that as a raider, I feel that the content I enjoy which is strictly group orientated at the moment should stay that way. I mean it is interesting to me how many times I have been accused in this thread and no not by you, that I am forcing others to toe my line or my way of thinking. I am not but, the last few posts are starting to make me feel that I am forced to toe a line and I do not think that is fair. To address your last point here, do I think it is worth a delay for new content that will encompasses more players? No sadly I do not.

 

I apologize, if I offended you, but again, you implied that more solo content would make people group less and that this is a bad thing. I perceived and still perceive this as an attitude, where players should be forced to group, even if they would prefer not to.

 

As for Ops being more important than solo content, then we must agree to disagree. To me they are of equal importance. Not that I don't want more Ops, I do, I just wish for them to be made in such a way that the lowest difficulty settings can be available to soloplayers, or even 2-4 man groups with companions. (For Ops, that might be a compromise, even the soloists would agree with) FPs should not have mechanics, on the lowest difficulties, that bar soloists at all. Such mechanics should be reserved for higher difficulties. And it is not impossible to make such diverse mechanics, even if doing so would take longer. It would appeal to a wider range of players, and that in itself makes it worthwhile.

 

You did not offend me. I was annoyed more at another poster, you were actually quite pragmatic in your responses to me so thank you for that. I do not necessarily think Ops content is more important, but rather more important to me. I do not think the devs should cater to me, or my play style. I am just expressing, like you, my particular play style.

 

While I still believe that Ops should not have mechanics changed at all. Perhaps, your compromise about no rewards or a "training wheels" instance, maybe I could support. As long as the rewards for say NIM Ops remain strictly for groups.

 

I just want to take this opportunity to apologize to any people I may have offended with my opinions here. I am all for people having fun, I really do.

[theUndead]

It will take much less time and cost far less money to adjust the difficulty of an encounter making it accessible to the independent player than it would be to make a whole new encounter, and given the market share of players would add content for independents for a fraction of the cost/time. This is more bang for the buck. It would increase player retention.I doubt companion AI has to change a bit. As to that last the idea, at least as I envision it, is that group content remains group content, otherwise unchanged. It is only that someone not in a group, or in a duo, could be provided an equivalent-difficulty version of the same encounter. That means increased scalable content for a fraction of the cost to the developer. To scale existing content difficulty to the number of players? Relatively little.Much less time than you appear to think. In many cases it is an Excel exercise, though granted some puzzles would present a challenge that might not be worth it. I would expect the devs will identify those quickly and efficiently.Why not?Let's look at that a minute in a different way than has been done (that I have seen). If the only reason people group for content is that it can't be done solo, what does that say about grouping? If the only reason you group is because the game cannot be played otherwise, and if the consequence of removing the incentives to group would result in no one grouping, then grouping itself is a problem. Is that what you really want us to take away from your argument? IF the developer has to provide the enticement of greater rewards to get people to group, then is grouping something that players would choose to do without those enticements? Doesn't sound like it. Bioware makes the carrots bigger to offset the chastisement of the stick involved in grouping. That means that Bioware is fully aware what a PITA grouping can be.

 

I am sorry that you feel the need to be so hostile towards me. I seem to have really upset a few people here:( Anyway, perhaps you are correct in your belief that it may not be as long as I thought. However, call me old fashioned if you wish but I do prefer the approach of the best rewards being awarded to group activities. It may not be right with you but it is right with me.

 

I also acknowledge that it could very well the grouping that is the issue, but that does not change the fact the vast majority of content in this game is solo already and I feel as a group player that if the last truly social experiences are made with solo players in mind then I feel infringed upon. Yet, as I said in another post, perhaps a training wheel of sorts for Ops with no rewards? Maybe I could get behind.

 

I will NOT however accept Novas point of view that claims ALL activities should be solo able. I'm sorry but that to me screams of a totally solo game and this is not a total solo game it is still an MMO.

 

What are you rambling about ? I never said I want ops doable in solo, mate. It's group content, designed to be done with multiple people. I think doing them solo would defeat the purpose / design.

 

What I'm saying is that : If people cry for group content to be redone in solo version (which I'm personnaly don't asking, I don't know where you read that), they should expect little to no loot. End of line. However, I'm fine with them asking that, it doesn't bother me. If they want to to group stuff in solo, fine, good for them, I think it's less fun because some mechanics would be dumbed down, but fine. But they shouldn't expect fat lootz for doing a dumbed-down version of the content.

 

Fair enough, I probably read it wrong. But that is the thing people ARE calling for Ops for example to be soloable and that the loot that is offered to groups be handed out to soloists. I won't mention the name but if you read a more recent voice by a person who is quite vocal about it then you will see.

 

But again I am sorry for miss reading your post.

[DomiSotto]

If I wanted to solo everything I'd play a single player game. There was no greater reward than working as a team to down kirin back in the day. Good two hour long fight fighting 5 other bosses at the same time while trying to burn down kirin.

 

You would. I like SP games. That's my background. But SWTOR blew my mind away and made me feel in love with a game like it was 1997 again and I started Baldur's Gate. What SWTOR has that the SP games do not are:

 

-Setting. Save for KOTOR/KOTOR2 that are dated now & we have all played already 10 years ago, there is zip

-Massive, absolutely massive amount of content and things to do. Months into it, and I am only finished 2 class stories & figured out how to do most things

-Continuous support and evolution of content. People may complain about CS, but SWTOR is playable and problems are fixed. Compare that to KOTOR2 that is unplayable and in-comprehensive without the mods.

-Multiplayer mode that does not suck. I love playing with my husband when he has a chance, and that's the only game we can actually do it in a fun way. I am trying to get him to 2-man Flashpoints, but he is not up to speed yet. Levelling together is fun though, and makes H4+ accessible.

-Altoholism and Legacy system. I absolutely love how alts interact and everything goes into the same bucket! I have never seen anything like that in an SP

-A total freedom of choice for Protagonist. A lot of famous SP games railroad you into 1 protagonist and restrict your choices a LOT for the 'sake of the story'. Well, here Bio delivers an unprecedented amount of customized content for your very special protagonist.

-And, it's child-friendly. I can't play Mass Effect with my kid hanging around.

Edited October 11, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Fantazm]

But that is the thing people ARE calling for Ops for example to be soloable and that the loot that is offered to groups be handed out to soloists.

 

I'm pretty much 99% a solo player in this game, but that's just dumb.

 

If they were soloable that'd be great, I'd appreciate it I won't lie about that but the rewards given out should obviously be scaled down.

 

Personally I wouldn't care if you got nothing at all.

[Ad-Astra]

Mmo games are evolving to help casual players, at the end of the day, they pay same as everyone else so should be catered for. So along with that should be storyline essential to the game be made available to solo players to do at their own pace, fp's and H4's will inevitably become soleable, this under the current skill tree set, may change with the new set up, however ops will never be soleable due to the game mechanics think it would take too much time to change these, time better spent on new content similar to Makeb and class content. I wish space.was freeroam, current pve on rail system is not good, the current pvp warzone system isn't good either, Imo, they are what they are. In regards to opinion everyone is welcome to their opinion, that's what is good about these forums. But..we all need to be careful not to be nasty to folk because there opinion differs to yours,or you disagree,or you call into question someone's ability or understanding of said game mechanics etc, we all need to learn, the system will challenge us all. Really looking forward to the next update.

[Shipwright]

Nice, this is a nice addition.

[LordArtemis]

Well, to sum up my point....

 

Main storyline does not belong behind a gate. The story should not be held hostage to promote grouping IMO.

 

Group and PVP content should have it's own unique mini story arcs that represent incentive to participate in those types of activities. They do not need to be solo capable IMO. However, making tactical versions would be fine IMO.

 

All flashpoints should have Tactical, SM, HM and Nightmare versions IMO, with appropriate rewards.

 

Also....

 

SM PuGs are the domain of lesser skilled and undergeared players. If you choose to PuG in an SM, you should suck it up and drive on. You are choosing to play with scrubs, accept that you are not where you belong and learn to live with it.

 

You always have premades.

 

HM is the domain of pro players. If you are a lesser skilled, undergeared player or general scrub you do not belong. You should not hinder the enjoyment of pro players with your lack of win. If you wish to participate in HM, learn the raids and the fights, gear properly, and learn your rotations. Or stick to PuGs in SM.

 

If you are running a tactical flashpoint, you are taking class in kindergarden. Understand where you are and who you are playing with, and accept it. Tacticals are flashpoints with training wheels. Do not expect players to be ready for the Tour de France.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Sintuner]

Funny you should mention that, we are actually going to do that very thing! It is really important as we head into Shadow of Revan that players have seen the Forged Alliances storyline. Although we will certainly never force you through it, we want to make it so that if you haven't played through it, you have an opportunity to see the whole storyline, even by yourself if you choose!

 

-eric

 

This is bit OT but..

This being a video game, Gameplay enhances the story and story enhances the gameplay. They are not 2 seperate, isolated things.

 

I've never seen instanced level cap group content that, game play-wise, was as irrelevant and meaningless as The Rakata FP. None of the fights there require anything from the group. There are no fights to learn, challenges to beat. It is ridiculously easy, simple, straightforward and stupid FP. I'm assuming nobody in history of SWTOR has ever seen a group fail there.

 

Ok, so Bioware wants literally everybody to be able to experience it. From your 5 year old kid brother to 95 year old grandmom, everybody must be able to finish he flashpoint (revan omg whoa) without any difficulties at all. Great. Gameplay-wise, place basically feels like a tutorial to video games. It is very difficult for anyone who has reached lvl cap in this game to feel like game wasn't assuming they are extremely bad players. Good luck selling a story of "omg big stuff happens" in that environment.

 

Rakata FP is a setting for stories like " Now, press W to move forward..good job. Can you reach that circle?". It is not a place where it feels you should experience anything relevant. There is no game to be played in it.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Sintuner

[OlBuzzard]

Oh boy do I wish for something like this to happen...

 

Sadly every serious attempt to get some normal responses on such a request usually seems to get swamped with folks screaming how we dare to ask for solo content in an MMO...

I agree with you and OP. Sometimes the issue is light side and dark side point decisions that are all too frequently made for you (if you don't get the role so to speak).

The development team should not sacrifice the story driven design of the game, but by that same token group decisions should not take away from how a particular player may (or may not) choose to agree with the over all group decision.

Making allowances for both is IMHO the better choice to make.

There will always be areas where only group raids or group efforts will be necessary in order to complete a section or gain a particular drop.

(just my opinion)

[Ulrah]

I decided long ago that "raiding" is simply not a part of mmo's that I wish to participate in. I have better things to do with my time than listen to nerd rage over voice comms. Also, I schedule my game time around those "more important things", not the other way around... I refuse to reserve time for a game.

 

To this end, having almost every story line I start in this game end in an ops more or less removes my initiative to even start new story lines. Which makes me wonder why I'm a subscriber?

[Drockter]

I decided long ago that "raiding" is simply not a part of mmo's that I wish to participate in. I have better things to do with my time than listen to nerd rage over voice comms. Also, I schedule my game time around those "more important things", not the other way around... I refuse to reserve time for a game.

 

To this end, having almost every story line I start in this game end in an ops more or less removes my initiative to even start new story lines. Which makes me wonder why I'm a subscriber?

 

I hear ya on the nerd rage thing. Thankfully (despite evidence to the contrary here on the forums) nerd rager =/= your typical raider. I rarely see too many ragers in SM content (might be my experience, and may not be everyones). Generally if someone starts up about being undergeared (at least in SM), most of the raid shuts them down pretty quick. Hard Mode/NiM, yeah... thats when people begin really paying attention to gear rating. 99% of the time, if someone is new (or undergeared), and just announces it (at least in the teams I form), there is never a problem. Its only after a few wipes (and a few times asking if anyone is new), that people get upset when someone finally announces that they havent done that particular op before.

 

If I see someone under geared (can generally tell from HP at the onset), I'll shoot them a tell... just to be sure they understand what they are getting into...a lot of times it is Alts of others, just hitting 55... with the 12xXP that is more common now. If they are new, and its not too far undergeared, we can carry in SM.

 

TLDR; Don't let the few nerd ragers deter you from doing ops. If you have 156 Gear (story mode Oricon), you are good to go for SM Ops through Dread Palace (and including Dread Palace if you have several 180 geared folks). Don't expect it to be a faceroll, and you may have to work at it... but no reason you cant do it..

[DomiSotto]

I totally agree with everything LA said.

[LordArtemis]

I totally agree with everything LA said.

 

Thanks

[Ulrah]

I hear ya on the nerd rage thing. Thankfully (despite evidence to the contrary here on the forums) nerd rager =/= your typical raider. I rarely see too many ragers in SM content (might be my experience, and may not be everyones). Generally if someone starts up about being undergeared (at least in SM), most of the raid shuts them down pretty quick. Hard Mode/NiM, yeah... thats when people begin really paying attention to gear rating. 99% of the time, if someone is new (or undergeared), and just announces it (at least in the teams I form), there is never a problem. Its only after a few wipes (and a few times asking if anyone is new), that people get upset when someone finally announces that they havent done that particular op before.

 

If I see someone under geared (can generally tell from HP at the onset), I'll shoot them a tell... just to be sure they understand what they are getting into...a lot of times it is Alts of others, just hitting 55... with the 12xXP that is more common now. If they are new, and its not too far undergeared, we can carry in SM.

 

TLDR; Don't let the few nerd ragers deter you from doing ops. If you have 156 Gear (story mode Oricon), you are good to go for SM Ops through Dread Palace (and including Dread Palace if you have several 180 geared folks). Don't expect it to be a faceroll, and you may have to work at it... but no reason you cant do it..

 

Your reply was well thought and considerate, thank you for that.

 

That said, you didn't address my final question. I have played enough mmo's to know that I simply don't enjoy anything beyond small scale group content. The real question becomes what many have asked in this thread (typically with posts of exactly the opposite tone of yours): Why am I, a mostly solo player, playing a game that doesn't even let me finish the story lines that I start?

 

People can claim all they want that "this is an mmo and you should **** if you don't want to group with me." The truth, however, is that the game style of this particular mmo is, and has always been, much more appealing to the more solo-oriented mmo player like myself. From this thread, even if we are the minority in the SWTOR population, I think it is clear that a great many players play the game like myself. Again, a direct result of the game's design (at least initially).

 

I have played EVE for over 10 years and not once, ever, have I seen players attacked for playing mostly solo. Large scale group play is NOT the only point of mmo's...

 

So if the trend continues, the ragers are actually correct - more solo-oriented players like myself should find a different mmo to play.

[Drockter]

Well, I can't answer the question on why you sub. Only you can do that. But, I am willing to bet that you do enjoy the story content that is available for soloists, or small group content (Flash Points).

 

While I may be a grouper... the game has a significant amount of story that, for the large part, was designed to be played alone. Even while you are grouped with others.. in your class mission you answered, you decided.

 

There are story lines that I absolutely enjoyed while leveling. Operative is one of my favorite. But, the way I look at it, the first 50 levels was you establishing yourself as a hero of the galaxy, and end game is about you taking your place with the other hero's to do battle with even more powerful enemies. These enemies are simply too powerful to be faced alone. Thats how I see it. Yours may be a different view.

 

What I'd say, honestly... is give the group content a chance. I think experience and atmosphere is a large part of it. Finding the right people is paramount to making that work for you. I'm not saying you'll turn into a hard core raider leaving the story in the dust... but, you might just enjoy yourself. If you are on JC... look me up... I'll run with ya. I am perfectly ok watching cut scenes, perfectly ok with wiping (several times if it necessary to learn the mechanic).

 

Final thought, I don't know who has the clear majority here... Soloists or Groupers... my guess is that neither holds a commanding majority... there is room for all play styles. Be it Solo, Group, RP, eRP, PvP, whatever. Its a game... enjoy it.

[Lord_Robert]

It might have been the way I wrote it. What I meant to say was that yes, I prefer grouping, but that does not mean others have to do it if they do not wish it. I was simply pointing out that I believe if a group heavy instance had a solo option with say the same rewards for example that would take away the carrot for raiding groups IMO.

 

First of all, let me say that this is a very, very thoughtfully written post and it is a joy to read and reply to it.

As for Group Heavy instances, I am a strong believer in story being available to everyone. But that rewards should reflect the effort needed to receive them. In essence, let's say that an operation was designed about being available to both solo and group players. First of all it should have several different difficulty modes. The lowest one should be a strictly story-driven experience for the solo player. The devs could even put more story into this difficulty, fleshing out the operation a lot more than is currently the trend. Here I'm thinking adding video-sequences (I can't recall what those are actually called just now), that will be either cropped or removed in the group-difficulties. Mechanics here should be the same tank and spank, as you see in difficult solo-content. This could probably be achieved by cutting extra bosses and adds and limiting a few other things.. Things that would be available in the later difficulties.

 

The end-rewards for this difficulty could either be a few comms, a companion gift, or a piece of gear suitable for the solo-player.. Maybe something in line with what you get from a long daily..

 

On top of this, the most basic difficulty should be difficulties designed strictly for group content. This is where the mechanics should really come into play and they should be every bit as group-centered, as they have ever been. The difficulties here should be pretty much similar to now, with SM, HM and NiM. And with differing rewards, respective of the difficulty. To those who want the best rewards available for everyone, the answer should be no. Simply because of two things: a) You don't need the best gear to complete the easier content and b) Players who complete the most difficult content should be rewarded accordingly. That is part of the carrot for doing so and it is a feature I would be very sad to see disappear. To me, those rewards are part of the reason, why I am pushing myself as a player, to eventually be good enough to compete on the highest difficulties. Heck, there should be even more titles available for people who complete HMs and NiM difficulties. (As well as some for the lesser diffs.)

 

In other words, I want to be inspired towards pushing myself. But I do not want to be limited in my story, for not doing so or for falling short. I believe both could be achieved in a way that satisfies all.. And with the direction in which MMOs as a whole seem to be moving, something akin to what I have described, could well one day be the norm..

 

But I think I've ranted enough on this subject. ;-)

 

You and I will have to disagree on the point about time management. See to me, if a major update is delayed for whatever reason, it is detrimental to the community as a whole. I also do not like waiting too long for new content. Yes I am extremely patient but I feel this might just add an even longer wait and that to me, is worrying. I am not saying that the devs should not consider it, I am just expressing how I would take it. You seem to be okay with it, while I wouldn't be.

 

Well, I will be the first to acknowledge that my opinion does not reflect all players and likely not even the majority.. As long as we all state our opinions with that in mind and in a polite manner, we can disagree and discuss in ways, where we don't insult one another.. Just like you and I are doing here.

 

 

You are correct on this point. I need to remember that even hardcore philosophies may change with time.

 

Thank you. I in turn will agree heartedly, that not all change is necessarily for the better and that not all things should change, merely for the sake of being changed.

Sometimes, what people want and what they need, are two different things. A wise dev sees that difference and responds accordingly. Thus, while MMOs might become more and more casual- and solo-friendly, forgetting the hardcores and the group-minded players would be a travesty. And may do more harm to a game than anything else, seeing as while the casuals may bring the money, the hardcores are the ones inspiring to new mechanics, new intricacies and new challenges. A good game should cater to all of us. And thus, with a bit of luck, find success.

 

 

I suppose I am one of those players that miss the days when all activities in an MMO were group orientated. Yes, I concede that times are changing and better or worse companies are in fact catering to the more casual player. This is the nature of change I suppose. So while I maintain my opinion I will acknowledge that you have a very valid point in this regard. So no we do not disagree completely.

 

I have said before that I am in fact glad that pure soloist players do in fact get content they enjoy. I am not advocating for that content to be removed or anything like that. I am simply saying that as a raider, I feel that the content I enjoy which is strictly group orientated at the moment should stay that way. I mean it is interesting to me how many times I have been accused in this thread and no not by you, that I am forcing others to toe my line or my way of thinking. I am not but, the last few posts are starting to make me feel that I am forced to toe a line and I do not think that is fair. To address your last point here, do I think it is worth a delay for new content that will encompasses more players? No sadly I do not.

 

You actually bring up a very valid point here. None of us should be forced to play in ways, we do not prefer. That includes the raiders.

Likewise, while I may prefer more time spent on developing content open for all, that is not more righteous or just than you preferring content centered around groups, i.e. Ops. We may have different opinions and desires, but that does not make one of us more entitled to have the kind of content we want, than the other.. Again, it is the job of the devs to toe the line between us all and provide each of us with updates, that while not completely satisfactory to any one group, does its best to give all of us something we want. Otherwise, why should you or I stick around?

 

In other words, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and it is just as valid as mine.

 

 

You did not offend me. I was annoyed more at another poster, you were actually quite pragmatic in your responses to me so thank you for that. I do not necessarily think Ops content is more important, but rather more important to me. I do not think the devs should cater to me, or my play style. I am just expressing, like you, my particular play style.

 

While I still believe that Ops should not have mechanics changed at all. Perhaps, your compromise about no rewards or a "training wheels" instance, maybe I could support. As long as the rewards for say NIM Ops remain strictly for groups.

 

I just want to take this opportunity to apologize to any people I may have offended with my opinions here. I am all for people having fun, I really do.

 

Good. I was worried about that. I try to express my opinion in ways that do not attack the messenger, but rather the message, if you get my meaning.

 

While I do support rewards given for all quests, as I said earlier, the rewards should fit the effort to get them. And thus the easiest difficulty should never be rewarded the same, as the hardest (Or those in between). One could argue that just as enjoying the story could in itself be a reward, so could completing the hardest content. It is probably a fair argument, but not one I personally support. Simply because harder content requires better gear, just as it does higher skills. That and because I want something to push me further. I want to have a reason to try out for the harder content and when I complete it, I want something to show for my efforts.. That is basic human nature and will always be a major factor in why, we as people and players, do the things we do.

 

Thank you for a thoroughly enjoyable post and a nice discussion. :-)

[Gleneagle]

Then why play an online game at all? The ENTIRE POINT of an online game is to play with others. If you're just going to go off and do your own thing and not group up then there is no point in even playing this genre. There are plenty of single player games to satisfy your needs. Skyrim is perfect for you, go play that.

Other hand I don't want to be running the storyline great guns only to run smack-dab into an encounter that attempts to strong-arm me into dependency on whoever happens to be nearby. For example the Consular Chapter 2 storyline on Quesh, Attis Station. And naturally some egotist will come along directly and tell us they had no difficulty whatsoever and deride and try to shame me because that is sure to make me want to group up with them (NOT).

 

I'm not antisocial and I like having most people around but I very much dislike slamming into a wall face-first. It isn't enjoyable, it is frustrating, and I grow angry with the design when it requires me to 'enjoy' grouping just because some idiot socio-psychological study decided that groups and guilds translate to increased player retention. I disagree with such simple minded hypotheses. People are individual, and what may encourage retention for some people will trigger an undesirable response from others. I reject such unsubtle and obstructive attempts at coercion as anathema to my enjoyment.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Gleneagle

[Gleneagle]

...I want to be inspired towards pushing myself.

I appreciated your post, but I want to underscore that I am one who gets enough challenge in my line of work and much prefer to relax with a game rather than be 'pushed' by artificial challenges or strong-armed into grouping with people whose playstyles (and attitudes) are incompatible with mine. Some of us get enough stress in our daily lives and would rather settle in with an inspiring adventure story, actually receiving rewards, however virtual, from our efforts. After solving other people's problems all day and then surviving yet another harrowing commute I want to have fun in my game.

 

Content designed for people with more testosterone than challenges in their everyday life doesn't work for me.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Gleneagle

[Gleneagle]

I can agree with the idea that the hardest challenges should yield the greatest rewards, but I don't think that instances that require a group to accomplish should simply be evaluated 'hardest'. If you need four people to accomplish a mission that mission's systemically quantifiable difficulty should be quartered because four players cooperated to accomplish it. Edited October 14, 2014 by Gleneagle

[Raansu]

Other hand I don't want to be running the storyline great guns only to run smack-dab into an encounter that attempts to strong-arm me into dependency on whoever happens to be nearby. For example the Consular Chapter 2 storyline on Quesh, Attis Station.

 

Not a single one of the class quests requires a group. If you're struggling on the consular mission then you need to upgrade yours and your companions gear. You're not being strongarmed into anything when it comes to the class missions.