Elminster_cs Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 We have to see. There are lot of problem solved with this, but also lot of problem introduced. We have to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GettoGecko Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 And from the sound of it, you still can. Sure, no doubt about it, but with less options than before. Well they say with more, but if you have the choice between 1% more HP or 0.1% more dogde you still have a choice but it won't have an effect if you take none or either of them. Most choices in WoW are like this, an the ones who have an effect are "must have", so nothing change in the end only hybrinds are gone which is good for the balance team, but they did a good job since 2.0 and as a player I only see less options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyranos Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 a good idea is for bioware to create a tool, like demo skill tree optimizer, so we can test it, how it looks, whats the options, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymac Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This reminds me of when they removed the resource free attacks you could use against impaired enemys, like the Bounty Hunter's shoulder slam. Instead of putting in a little work to make it functional , just take the easy way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquadro Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 If I have to relearn all my specs from scratch, on 7x55s, plus pointlessly level to 60, I'll probably switch to something else. Why start over and end up someplace you have already been. This Exactly this 1000x this What they want is for you to completely change what you know Is scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta_V Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 This Exactly this 1000x this What they want is for you to completely change what you know Is scary Oh, FFS. Point me to a quote that says anything of the sort. What they *have* said, is that specs will continue to largely play the same. What they have said is this: Instead, we created three Disciplines per Advanced Class, named and themed after the original Skill Trees (for example the three Disciplines for Commando are Combat Medic, Gunnery, and Assault Specialist, all very familiar names, themes, and play-styles from the skill tree era). [/Quote] And this: One of the most important goals for Disciplines was to make sure that the player had real choices that actually mattered as they advanced throughout the game. So after we finished pulling out all of the skills that we thought were really important for a Discipline’s play style and rotation, we took the remaining skills from each of the three Advanced Classes, cut some of the extraneous ones, created some exciting new options, polished old favorites, and put them into a selection pool available to all members of that Advanced Class. [/Quote] So they have explicitly stated that they have kept the key talents and abilities of each spec, and folded them into the Discipline system, rather than having you select them in a skill tree. All of the other talents, such as defensive buffs for dps, have been pulled from all 3 of a given AC's specs and placed into a single pool that all 3 Disciplines have access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquadro Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Oh, FFS. Point me to a quote that says anything of the sort. What they *have* said, is that specs will continue to largely play the same. What they have said is this: And this: So they have explicitly stated that they have kept the key talents and abilities of each spec, and folded them into the Discipline system, rather than having you select them in a skill tree. All of the other talents, such as defensive buffs for dps, have been pulled from all 3 of a given AC's specs and placed into a single pool that all 3 Disciplines have access to. Just so you wait New builds, new specs....translates in 6+ months pf garbage PvP wise to rebalance all the new **** they just created Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeluvzu Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 First time? Really? Have you seen this image? Lol, this guy knows his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 New builds, new specs....translates in 6+ months pf garbage PvP wise to rebalance all the new **** they just created With 5 extra levels they had to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmors Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think at first glance it look like the same thing WoW did but then I think the utility selection part of disciplines will give us some choices in the matter and still allow for some unique builds. I think this is to ensure that low level classes get all the abilities they need to define their roles. For example, a healer will get their more important healing abilities earlier on now and a tank will get taunt and their damage reduction abilities earlier on now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) WoW always has skill trees, not some weird system aimed to amalgamate and dumb down reading tooltips Not really. The current WoW "skill trees" come down to six tiers each with three choices. Classes have three "specialties" to choose from. Each specialty determines the skill tree you must use and most major talents are preselected based on your specialty. You cannot choose skills, or even glyphs, that do not match your specialty. I hope the SWTOR system is similar. With a system like this you can still individualize, tweak, your build but even if you have no idea where to look to copy the "most effective" build you should still have a viable build. I'll hold judgement until I see the final implementation. P.S. And, has someone has already mentioned, hybrids would no longer be a possibility. Edited October 7, 2014 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I wouldn't judge too soon, I can see good and bad in this idea, but until we get the proper demonstration tomorrow it may be too early to tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat_maban Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Settle down everyone. All your rotations and abilities will mostly be the same. They will change some stuff as they did change some stuff in 2.0 but they will simply change how you "spec" and make it more variable and have less defined builds Everyone knows all the specs and if your not running a specific spec then your a noob. There will be more deviation from the known specs now as you will able to play slightly different. Will you still have snipe ? almost certainly. Are you still going to be able to cast tracer missile ? of course ! they are not rebuilding the characters they are streamlining and adjusting how we spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forren-Midosea Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Settle down everyone. All your rotations and abilities will mostly be the same. They will change some stuff as they did change some stuff in 2.0 but they will simply change how you "spec" and make it more variable and have less defined builds Everyone knows all the specs and if your not running a specific spec then your a noob. There will be more deviation from the known specs now as you will able to play slightly different. Will you still have snipe ? almost certainly. Are you still going to be able to cast tracer missile ? of course ! they are not rebuilding the characters they are streamlining and adjusting how we spec. yup, and i like it. however... why no dualspec? its like omg no, gonna pray for it another 3 years.... and by dualspec i mean not hybird, but to be able to "wear" 2 types of gear and "use" 2 types of skill trees (upcoming disciplines) at the same time, and just by one click change them, without milions of clicks to switch one part of gear to another and respec whole tree and such.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I wonder if you are stuck into a "discipline" once you initially select it? Can you imagine the uproar from the "AC change" fraternity? Don't worry, they will be selling "discipline reset" tokens on the CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) it occurs to me why. Skill trees got complicated when more levels were added and therefore more skills were added. 2.0 threw off balance as a result last time. Adding more skill to the skill tree would complicate it more. So I can see why they would implement a different system as a result made to handle level increases better. Edited October 7, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llFROSTll Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The people that are doing this are ruining the game don't go to world of warcraft!! You will lose your player base if you change it like this its boring lame you don't have your own character choice your own build making it annoying so please swtor don't just don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I just hope that it takes away the "Standard" builds that we have right now. I hate having to have the exact same build and such as every other DPS/Healer on the server. If it gives us more freedom to customize our spec without sacrificing performance, I'm all for it. The only difference people will have are utility abilities. Every class that picks a certain spec will have exactly the same abilities. If anything it will increase the amount of cookie cutter builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwence Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Here is my problem - who decides what the standard build is? I always take the "Increase force by 50" or "Aim +9%" options but very rarely waste points on something that will raise crit chance or healing or endurance 1-2%. So is the standard build going to be based on statistics i.e. what skills do most people use? Will it take into account all of the skills we feed points into to get 5 per line? A committee of players or BW employees? If so then what style of play is represented? looks like you should thank bw, they will be indirectly improving your characters with the new system who in their right mind would not put points into increase crit %?? every class/spec gains benefits from that, even tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwence Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 only thing that will suck is if the abilities in any given skill tree that require more than 1 point to max out are not given the top tier in the new discipline system for example, any primary stat boost in a skill tree usually requires 3 points to max fully, if they only do 1 point in the new system and it is equivalent to the base as it is right now i.e. 3% cunning instead of 9% cunning. then that will suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 This is a major, major change This is going to impact every class and basically force everyon to re-learn a class and respec Is unbelievable. I am very concerned, will the game be fun again Hard to believe you're not joking or trolling, but just in case you're not ... ... you'll get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) well if they are changing the abilities, then they can control the general amount of damage and such by each player. given the small amount of choices we will be given,no one will be super build and almost unstoppable. I wonder if augments and such will be the next thing worked on,not that it needs it, just maybe they will put a cap on the amount of power/acc/other stats. I was a player when City of Heroes added their cap of 3 of same type in a power, who knows they may add a only allowed x number of boost points per stat.to me they are almost turning this into a admusiment park game. come in fight a few mobs think you are great and powerful. then sub. or they might put the booster that makeb has on all planets,and you can get by with green items so the market for blue and purple will decrease Edited October 19, 2014 by MadHobbit final thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrintoSFJ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 They are not asking us to redo our entire lives. they are asking us to read the new skills/abilities they are adding to the game and learn it. if someone can't do such simple thing then they are failures as human beings. And dumbing down the game and making it more casual friendly has nothing to do with this change, every single game currently in the market that provide that old D&D style tree system are suffering the same thing : copy-paste optimal built with too many unnecessary skills/perks left untouched or players forced to use unnecessary perks just to maintain minimum point usage restriction. overall that skill tree system is an old monster that was killed by it's creator even before WoW came out but many rpg games still use that kind of skill tree simply because they want to give players an illusion of "freedom" and apparently it works on morons who think they have freedom to build how they like when they are literally being pushed by the system to spend points in the optimal way they were intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) only thing that will suck is if the abilities in any given skill tree that require more than 1 point to max out are not given the top tier in the new discipline system for example, any primary stat boost in a skill tree usually requires 3 points to max fully, if they only do 1 point in the new system and it is equivalent to the base as it is right now i.e. 3% cunning instead of 9% cunning. then that will suck Even if they only give 3% cunning (or 0%) instead of 9% it's easily fixed. They can for example make each point of mainstat a tad more powerful and/or increase the damage of your skills accordingly. If we lose 3% accuracy, they can make it that much easier to get another 3% from gear or just increase the standard 90% acc to 93%). Edited October 19, 2014 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Another thread laden with exaggerations, spite, snide comments, insults, and people who can't make their point without childishly attempting to belittle and target other posters. (No one quoted intentionally... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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