adamqd Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I wonder if we can use different weapons if we want, too (Within reason) make it even more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorturedFox Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Just started liking the game, but if you dont want my money thats fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vairden Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 "I see a contradiction here. It seems the real reason why you left WoW is that you've just found a game that suits your tastes better. Fair point Trollokdamus; I should have said, it was the single biggest reason. Before this announcement, I still consistently cited that change as the main reason I lost interest in WoW and began looking at other games. When I found SWTOR, and saw that skill trees were available, I decided to try it. I found that I did really enjoy having skill trees again, and I fell in love with the story element; even despite all of those broken cut scenes back at the beginning. Ah memories... < :^) That is probably a better description of my history/perspective. It does, however, highlight the truth in your response. This game suited my tastes better. And now it appears they are removing the elements that did so, which leaves me pessimistic about the upcoming changes. Here's hoping they really shine with the upcoming details. No pressure, Eric, David, and community team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandoforlife Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think this is a good idea. It makes it so not everyone is 100% cookie-cutter, and balancing classes should be simplified (hopefully). As long as it's done with common sense (for the love of God DON'T let Operative healers get increased damage absorption from shield probe, keep that in Lethality and out of utilities) it could really help struggling classes. Depending on what new abilities/traits they add, this could really help out Mercs in arenas. Overall, psyched for the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandoforlife Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I wonder if we can use different weapons if we want, too (Within reason) make it even more realistic. That would require a change in animations. So probably, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTux Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Fair point Trollokdamus; I should have said, it was the single biggest reason. Before this announcement, I still consistently cited that change as the main reason I lost interest in WoW and began looking at other games. When I found SWTOR, and saw that skill trees were available, I decided to try it. I found that I did really enjoy having skill trees again, and I fell in love with the story element; even despite all of those broken cut scenes back at the beginning. Ah memories... < :^) That is probably a better description of my history/perspective. It does, however, highlight the truth in your response. This game suited my tastes better. And now it appears they are removing the elements that did so, which leaves me pessimistic about the upcoming changes. Here's hoping they really shine with the upcoming details. No pressure, Eric, David, and community team... If you came here only for tree skills, sadly you are leavin on december, but if you came here as a Story fan, wich is the case of most of us, you will still enjoy the Far Far Away galaxy universe. and sincerely, you dont have to worry about the subscribers, they are not here for tree skills. i played a bunch of MMO on my damned geek life, and never installed one or changed it for tree skills reason during the last 16 years experience. Tree skills or i quit attitude is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorwen Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Maybe you could just pay WoW for their code as it would be a lot simpler than thinking for yourselves. Your attempt to follow WoW was dismal so why are you going to attempt to follow WoW still? Why not take this opportunity to make Star Wars instead of continuing with Star WoW? If following WoW was a secret recipe to success there wouldn't have been so many failed MMOs. No matter how hard you try you can't cut down a tree with your head. You're not a woodpecker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshieDrew Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I know this will sound like a Paid Advertisement for Bioware blaring on our televisions at 3:30 AM... but I would like to point how awesome it is/was to see a MMORPG Team say that they are looking forward to the communities feedback. Seriously, for those of us who have played various MMORPG's over the years, this is the opposite experience of what many of us have encountered. Lip service? I don't think so and here's why: 1) We are constantly getting updates for hot/bug fixes - many of which were reported by the players on the forums. (Sure, lots of things still need to be fixed but I don't think anyone could accuse the SWTOR Team of sitting idle, lacking of action) 2) OMG, Content! How many times in how many games have we played over the years that all we ask and beg for the most is content only to be met with nothing but non-responsiveness and disappointment. I think I could play SWTOR full time and still not have time to do everything I want to do every day. 3) Where it comes from! Anyone who knows me can tell you without any doubt that I am not into the emotional, feel good, lets all hug nonsense ... but I think this once I will put that aside and give some credit where I think it's due. Maybe the SWTOR Team just has great writers on staff who can present the community with a major developer/game change and still leave some warm, fuzzy feelings of community and partnership with all the fancy writing but I think there is a sentiment of being heart-felt and genuine. I feel like the the team is excited about the game, listens to the community, and is continuing to put their efforts into making it more awesome. I'll jump off the soapbox now ... to the SWTOR Team: I am so excited for the expansion and the trailer is just awesome. For me, it felt like a Family Holiday Moment remembering all the good times I spent playing KOTORI/II as I am doing my little "It's Revan! Happy Dance" ... I have had the best MMORPG experiences thus far in SWTOR and wanted to thank all the geeks and geekettes for all the hard work. (PS Can you slow down a little. I can't play enough to keep up with you!) May the Force Be with You... Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshieDrew Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 This is an intelligent developer and I am confident that much effort went into the risk analysis. My fear is that the end users they sampled for their use-cases weren't me, and my needs may not be met. I know I didn't like the similar change imposed by Turbine on LotRO. We shall see. May luck be ours, because however careful the mind is, it is still prone to fault. I came from LOTRO and I don't think this sounds similar at all. Turbine in their infinite overnight wisdom completely overhauled the combat system, totally jacked the LI's by screwing with relics (which of course was an antiquated stupid mess from the beginning) and... not gonna lie they EFFED up my 85 Cappy so bad I couldn't even tell what the ... my role was anymore. THIS is none of that, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Talking from pure theory crafting concepts spec balance for dps and healers is based on: Dps/healing output. Dps/healing burst. Survivability Utility Damage/heal mobility Movement mobility For variant degrees these are the main traits that define specs. What the discipline system is doing is creating is less option to balance each spec around. Let me take an example for Power Tech. The Advanced Prototype spec (AP) has increased duration for Hydraulic Override and 15% increased movement speed. These are utility/mobility aspects of the AP spec. Pyro spec outperforms AP by a large margin in terms of damage output on a single target, which TBH, is what counts for the most in the majority of PvP and PvE encounters. Now if these utility/mobility are available for all specs, why would anyone in their right mind play AP?! This is doing the exact same opposite of flexibility. We are limiting the options to balance spec and ultimately creating one super spec for each AC, which will offer highest damage output to survivability, since everything else is available for all specs. For PT it will clearly be pyro assuming things stay as is on live. I will wait to test on PTS, but in theory this does the exact opposite of flexibility and choices. Edited October 7, 2014 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake_Hound Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) If you came here only for tree skills, sadly you are leavin on december, but if you came here as a Story fan, wich is the case of most of us, you will still enjoy the Far Far Away galaxy universe. and sincerely, you dont have to worry about the subscribers, they are not here for tree skills. i played a bunch of MMO on my damned geek life, and never installed one or changed it for tree skills reason during the last 16 years experience. Tree skills or i quit attitude is ridiculous. I don't think you understand this community who are the backbone, they like a lot of stuff, RP PVE PVP GSF and stronghold. But you seriously think anybody want to play with redneck and simple minded fools all day? People look up the people they like, when founders who hardly post a thing or complain suddenly feel a doom coming, it isn't cause am excaggerating, nobody in the right mind want to play a mmo with a bunch of none talkative, bot programmed trolls. Infact staying silent unnerve a lot of people during FP, No matter the skill level that player has. Now we will see in 2 more hours, if those new level 10 abilities comes at a price of base abilities. Or are NEW abilities. So do they remove heals from sorc/commando/operative dpsers, taunts cooldowns from none tanking dpsers. Or do they ad new abilities, this change isn't something small if it is the former it is pigeon everybody in a defined role. Can't wait for the stream. I really hope am wrong! Seriously. Edited October 7, 2014 by Drake_Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I think this is a good idea. It makes it so not everyone is 100% cookie-cutter I think you mean that everyone will be 100% cookie-cutter that the devs decided for us. For reasons Ottoattack explained well. Edited October 7, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shebopper Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 WoW did the same thing and lost millions subscribers because of it. I just hope Bio can afford to lose a lot of players too, because when this change goes live a lot of people will quit. I myself will give the new system a fair try before I decide, but I do prefer the skill tree system. Perhaps they could give the subscribing players a vote, on whether they should stick with the old or bring in the new skill system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Interesting that everyone keeps saying long time subscribers are going to leave. Maybe it would be more honest that you and maybe the people you play with are because I have been here since before launch along with the people in my guild and none of us are planning to leave. We will look at this system and see what it does and then we will adjust. We don't quit just because of a way they do skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negronus Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 So am I getting refunded my Cartel Coins for buying field respec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake_Hound Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Interesting that everyone keeps saying long time subscribers are going to leave. Maybe it would be more honest that you and maybe the people you play with are because I have been here since before launch along with the people in my guild and none of us are planning to leave. We will look at this system and see what it does and then we will adjust. We don't quit just because of a way they do skills. So you admit the core game isn't what binds you, but sadly it binds people in your guild. Once people are bored they move on, nothing you can do, way MMO works. It is hard to replace people who suddenly drop from the face of the earth, but are essential to the guild for mental or other support. Oh so don't be so cocky, it is the human nature to think of themself first, when a system no longer satisfy there needs. And they feel frustrated no matter the amount of loyalty towards one and other will keep people together. Why you think when you grow older you make less and less real friends! Even if friends replaced the aquintance word just to sound political correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I just need to tune in this afternoon. It is my fear, not my expectation, that makes me uneasy with change. I am very much into liberty and independence. I detest codependence and anything remotely like forced grouping. If the change coming with disciplines is constricting, pressing me into unnatural contortions I don't think I will like it. I sure hope this whole thing wasn't a result of someone newly promoted who thinks they had to make a lasting change just to prove their promotion was merited. That happens too much in the real world, and it rarely leads to a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sorry to intrude on your privacy, but is this thread supposed to be about what we think of one another, or is it supposed to be about Disciplines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake_Hound Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sorry to intrude on your privacy, but is this thread supposed to be about what we think of one another, or is it supposed to be about Disciplines? Sorry my dear esteemed aquintance you are absolutly right, but I take people case by case. Sometimes somebody need to step from there high mighty chair and come back down to earth a bit. especially after how much effort the developers put into this game to make it a grand success. I do see the points why they want to change it, and why it is a good idea for the change. But every MMO has a core backbone that is different, SWTOR has a very special backbone even with the negativity. So why take this gamble now? When everything is looking peachy and sunny! So is it a real improvement, don't forget core ain't stupid in this game, they have a very strong biased opnion about things like poster above, but they ain't stupid. Especially the people who didn't leave for failstar and ESO. Now as said before I don't count, cause I play what is fun. But it would be waste to see so much heart soul and effort on everybody side, put on a gamble that makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArielaKnight Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 And you are not a special snowflake, sorry to say that to you, that is judging! I do not judge I only state what is the most common thing to happen. As your whole post is about judging and cocky, pointing fingers thinking I haven't seen these situation before. Or next poster will think they are a special snowflake and will beat the ods. Well if you are such a special snowflake, you would have beaten the special snowflake ods longtime ago. And understand this is just pasttime entertainement for many people. I think my avatar really fits me so cold and calculating Now Stream proof me wrong lol, and show me it is a improvement ! Newsflash: I am a member of that guild and I am not leaving the game over this. Now would you kindly not speak about things you don't know about. Sure some will leave but then again sometimes they sprout off I am leaving if you do this and they don't. Leaving over something like this is childish and stupid considering no one knows what it is going to do only they are gauging it by Wow, who by the way not everyone has played as it holds no interest and not because of the way the skills are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHartigan Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I have come across a few posts in the vane of "This will dumb down the game, I'M LEAVING!". I think what needs to be understood by some of you is that in order for a company to make money on a game, it needs to be accessible. You hardest of the hardcore can have your hardcore only games, just understand that said game won't be around for long making things hard for the sake of being hard. That formula doesn't work well in MMO's. If this does help simplify rotations some, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vairden Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If you came here only for tree skills, sadly you are leavin on december, but if you came here as a Story fan, wich is the case of most of us, you will still enjoy the Far Far Away galaxy universe. and sincerely, you dont have to worry about the subscribers, they are not here for tree skills. i played a bunch of MMO on my damned geek life, and never installed one or changed it for tree skills reason during the last 16 years experience. Tree skills or i quit attitude is ridiculous. LordTux, you seem to be reading things into my post that simply aren't there and omitting things that are there. I never said I was quitting over a lack of skill trees. I expressed my views as a customer that this has proven contrary to my tastes in the past, and I asked, without threats, for proof that they are implementing it well. Input from the community on what we want to see on their stream seems like a good idea to me... If you are as seasoned a gamer as you imply, it seems odd to me that you have such a problem with another such gamer raising rational, reasoned concerns on the direction the game is heading. As evidenced by the volume of negative and/or apprehensive posts here, this is quite a controversial decision, and many people are concerned. Communicating that concern to the devs in a rational manner is the only way we can have input on the product we're both purchasing. If you can't accept that, I'm afraid you and I are not going to agree on much of anything in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Now are we in a discussion about finger pointing and assumptions, who started the first one? And who can't handle a rebound which wasn't even about judging her, wasn't even about talking about her guild. Want to try that again? You said it wasn't about her guild but you said this: So you admit the core game isn't what binds you, but sadly it binds people in your guild. Now again tell me that you didn't start it with the comment about her guild. You made the comment first, so try again. You spoke of her guild and that is something you have no knowledge of. You have no idea what binds us together. Edited October 7, 2014 by casi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Hosa_Phat Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Okay, totally off-topic here, but to ScarletBlaze, ArielaKnight and casi, I gotta say that, even if all I had to go on was your forum signatures (and never saw any of your coherent, non-inflammatory and well-spoken posts I've seen here and in other topics), I wanna be a member of THAT guild! Sure, I'm a guy, but can I get an *AMEN*? On topic, I am totally unsure about how this major mechanic change will affect the playability of such a great (IMHO) game, but I'm not going to unsub over it. I'm a casual gamer that enjoys the game for the game's sake. Like was stated above, I'll adjust to the changes when they come. In the meantime, I'll work on leveling a couple more toons so I can maybe have a little more fun in the long term. Edited October 7, 2014 by G_Hosa_Phat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Okay, totally off-topic here, but to ScarletBlaze, ArielaKnight and casi, I gotta say that, even if all I had to go on was your forum signatures (and never saw any of your coherent, non-inflammatory and well-spoken posts I've seen here and in other topics), I wanna be a member of THAT guild! Sure, I'm a guy, but can I get an *AMEN*? Hehe we have guys in our guild but some very nice ones. We are on Ebon Hawk so look us up lol. And thank you for the compliment. Edited October 7, 2014 by casi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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