Why are gunships so OP?

[Verain]

I guess it's been awhile since we had a good gunship QQ thread, but this one is pretty amusing, mostly because OP got outplayed and is super busy denying that.

 

12 gunships, or even 8 and 4 bombers, is not actually optimal. You can easily come up with counters to this (and, for instance, Drako has), but normally if you are facing a team that doesn't have any deadweight and they want to mess around with you, you're gonna get rolled. In other words: if the enemy team can comfortably field 8 gunships and 4 bombers, any early kills you had were probably on their naked req ships before they realized your team couldn't be /lolled at, and instead needed a good crushing.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Coordinated teams are the biggest danger in any competition like GSF, but the most dangerous ones to me are those with a solid mix. If you have gunships, strikes, and scouts backing each other up well, it's hard to do much against that. If you go for the gunship, scouts swarm you, if you go for the strikes or scouts, you get picked off by the gunships. You don't see that kind of coordination often, but there are *ahem* some people that queue together a lot on Shadowlands and do it well.

 

Usually when a group of gunships is doing well, it's because not enough is bothering them--equal caliber scout, strike, and gunship pilots are going against them. I can do decent against a few gunships, but it's hard if my team isn't contributing much as well... I've had gunships sit and target me for a whole minute while I lurk around asteroids healing up for another run because no teammate is also chasing them or trying to snipe them.

[magecutter]

But the main problem is, that most of the inexperienced players keep dancing in the middle of the map, trying to kill the strikes dancing with them. Or they are flying towards a sat node in a straight line with a pressed "s"-key, aiming at the defense turret, not aware that a sniper sits right on top of the node.....BOOM.

 

So I say it again: Focus them, Make it your personal goal for the match. Fly around the main enemy meat in a huge circle, hitting the gs from behind. They will guard each other and they will have wingmen who protect them. You will die a lot. But you will also kill alot of 'em. And that satisfying feeling will keep you going. And above that killing a GS is always a contribution for your team.

 

this ^^

 

as many have pointed out, if you allow a GS to just sit there and rack up 15 kills then you really have no room to complain.

 

there are many strategies for dealing with gunships. no strategy will work every time or in every situation. but as someone who only pugs I find killing gunships very satisfying.

 

practice is the key and focus GS's and keep those kill counts down

[Paetheas]

Lol at crazy and Sammy. Good job white knighting the most broken flight pvp game ever made. You do realize that more ppl currently play xwing and TIE fighter than GSF, right? Those games are over 20 years old and still better. There is a reason why ppl that stream GSF typically have 0-1 viewers on average. Even bioware knows it's a joke and stopped working on in it all together. They even had to force ppl to play it with conquest rewards just to keep it from dying. 30-60 min Q's before conquest came out is a pretty good indicator.

 

Keep arguing that gear plays no part, most of us are really getting a good laugh out of it.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

. 30-60 min Q's before conquest came out is a pretty good indicator.

 

Since day 1 my queue times have been around 15 minutes off-peak, sometimes even shorter during peak hours and to my knowledge JC does not have the largest GSF population out there. Mostly what I noticed with conquest was more newbies playing, not noticeably shorter queue times.

 

And for record I played and loved the X-Wing series.

[Crazy-Wolf]

...Same old story....

 

I won't feed you. Since you have ignored every argument so far, I will ignore you from this moment on. Anf those were the last seconds of my lifetime that I wasted for you.

[Asbetos]

Fixed that for you.

 

Most of who? There's no one here agreeing with you. Also, a quick look at your previous posts discovers that all you do is whine, be it GSF or ground PvP.

[Callly]

There is a lot of way to kill or to disrupt gunship but... is that funny? I don't see the point. Where is the fun playing a gunship? Its an easy way to get on top of scoreboard for sure. but fighting with or against a Gunship isn't fun at all.

 

Why Gunship are so OP? because you dont need Stuff. And you don't need a lot of skill. I know there is some very skilled Gunship fighter in the game but you dont need a lot of skill to perform well and you and you can perform well with a stock one. Like in every Multyplayer game weapon with high damage are the less stuffdependable. A new player with stocks ship will be generaly useless in a scout or a strikefighter but will kill people and can be dangerous in a gunship.

 

And yeah a lot of people prefere the dogfight side of this game so they dont want to hunt the Gunship. So if you dont do it yourself....Hunting Gunship is like protecting the door in ground PVP

[mattycutts]

gunships are far from OP, i play gunship alot and i die, same as when i play scout,fighter other gunships die fast.

 

Key is to learn all the ship types, know there weakness, strengths etc. if you approch a GS from front u will die.

 

think of a gunship like a sniper/gunslinger in ground pvp, left alone will rip you apart, focused die very fast.

 

when u get lots of gunships i prefer scouts/fighters rather than my own gunship. work around the maps attack from sides, back etc, really alot of it is just plain common sense.

 

And dont think u have to kill them,ive had lots of peeps persue me all over i just lead them away from objectives or towards team mates ready for them, if there moving there out of the game anyway, a running gunship is a useless gunship in most siturations.

[mattycutts]

There is a lot of way to kill or to disrupt gunship but... is that funny? I don't see the point. Where is the fun playing a gunship? Its an easy way to get on top of scoreboard for sure. but fighting with or against a Gunship isn't fun at all.

 

Why Gunship are so OP? because you dont need Stuff. And you don't need a lot of skill. I know there is some very skilled Gunship fighter in the game but you dont need a lot of skill to perform well and you and you can perform well with a stock one. Like in every Multyplayer game weapon with high damage are the less stuffdependable. A new player with stocks ship will be generaly useless in a scout or a strikefighter but will kill people and can be dangerous in a gunship.

 

And yeah a lot of people prefere the dogfight side of this game so they dont want to hunt the Gunship. So if you dont do it yourself....Hunting Gunship is like protecting the door in ground PVP

 

actually low-average skilled gunships are extremely easy to kill and do more damage/kills than them. the good gunships and yes it does take skill. im a gunship some of the time and it does take skill to be a massive inpact. low skilled gunships i wipe the floor with in any ship type, and in a fighter or scout will beat their damage, kills, easy to find there the ones with normally very low hit ratio at end of match, my average hit ratio is 70% youll never see crap gunships with that unless they only do a few shots lol

 

bit you made a mistake with was, infact all the ship types take skill to be one of the best and the average/low skilled players will show up very quick in any ship type and those of us that are good will drop them very fast.

[mattycutts]

Fixed that for you.

 

if GSF is about gear, why can those of us that been doing it since release of gsf kick crap out fully modified ships in stock ships?

 

mods are nice and make u competitive with same level of skill players, but stock ships can still top leaderboards and be a massive inpact with zero mods. trust me in my stock ships i play for fun i will never be out top 3 EVER.

[Callly]

actually low-average skilled gunships are extremely easy to kill and do more damage/kills than them. the good gunships and yes it does take skill. im a gunship some of the time and it does take skill to be a massive inpact. low skilled gunships i wipe the floor with in any ship type, and in a fighter or scout will beat their damage, kills, easy to find there the ones with normally very low hit ratio at end of match, my average hit ratio is 70% youll never see crap gunships with that unless they only do a few shots lol

 

bit you made a mistake with was, infact all the ship types take skill to be one of the best and the average/low skilled players will show up very quick in any ship type and those of us that are good will drop them very fast.

 

 

 

You missreading me. i didnt say you didn't need skill to be really good in a gunship. I just say that an unskilled player in a scout will be totaly useless. but in a gunship he can kill people and if you dont hunt him he will perform well. not very well but still with a positive ratio and a decent amout of damage.

[Paetheas]

if GSF is about gear, why can those of us that been doing it since release of gsf kick crap out fully modified ships in stock ships?

 

mods are nice and make u competitive with same level of skill players, but stock ships can still top leaderboards and be a massive inpact with zero mods. trust me in my stock ships i play for fun i will never be out top 3 EVER.

Because the person you killed bought all their stuff with CC then went afk once inside the match.

 

The only ppl that are disagreeing that GSF is mostly about gear have given zero proof or evidence. You can say how amazing you do with the starter two ships but that doesn't actually make it true. I can claim I'm better at basketball than MJ in his prime but that doesn't make it true.

 

I understand why you guys are trying so hard to convince ppl to play more GSF. It's a dying game(mostly bc of its balance issues) that you guys enjoy. You can't argue with 95% of the player base when they all realize the same thing.

[Ryuku-sama]

You missreading me. i didnt say you didn't need skill to be really good in a gunship. I just say that an unskilled player in a scout will be totaly useless. but in a gunship he can kill people and if you dont hunt him he will perform well. not very well but still with a positive ratio and a decent amout of damage.

 

Well for a strike or a scout. Still absolutely bad for a gunship. And if he is focused he won't be better. Focused in that case meaning anyone looking at him funny, and not half the team trying to kill him.

[mattycutts]

Because the person you killed bought all their stuff with CC then went afk once inside the match.

 

The only ppl that are disagreeing that GSF is mostly about gear have given zero proof or evidence. You can say how amazing you do with the starter two ships but that doesn't actually make it true. I can claim I'm better at basketball than MJ in his prime but that doesn't make it true.

 

I understand why you guys are trying so hard to convince ppl to play more GSF. It's a dying game(mostly bc of its balance issues) that you guys enjoy. You can't argue with 95% of the player base when they all realize the same thing.

 

So people like me that been doing this for so long, that in starter ships DO finish tops, makes a massive difference in every match even with zero mods is not true? in our guild we have some of the best republic players on server, tilia, puc, alama, myself etc and ive seen these guys do exactly same in stock ships its not just me,

 

Where do u get this 95% of player base think it? and its a dieing game? i can barely do anything in game between queue pops, its more active now than at start. that to me seems growth not death. most people that say mods mean everything normally are baddies at gsf or rely solely on mods. u say they spend cc to max them, but even to do that u have to play in stock ships, with cc u cant just buy a stack of ship reqs all u can do is change the ones u earned into fleet. as for cartel ships there just shells of exhisting ships anyone can get and no mods completed.

 

your argument is flawed since u offer no reason why a person with no mods can not be conpetitive? my argument is not based on what ifs, maybe's, we do it. come to red eclipse ill create a new char and link u my stats to say zero mods braught and ill wipe floor with you. i have a char on rep and emp that has zero mods i use to have some fun. dont get me wrong i do die and some of the guys on these forums know not to leave me alone to long and focus me and ill die but i give as good as i get stock or maxed ship.

[Callly]

Well for a strike or a scout. Still absolutely bad for a gunship. And if he is focused he won't be better. Focused in that case meaning anyone looking at him funny, and not half the team trying to kill him.

 

if the only way to see an unskilled noob having a bad ratio is to focus him... maybe there is a balance issue no? If your skilled player have to lose their time killing noob in gunship because they are a danger... your team is in trouble.

 

i'am not a skilled player. yesterday i was playing with my rerol just want some quick xp lets go starfighter. only stock ship so... Gunship. two bad team. no one to hunt me. 9/7/1 ratio at the end of the game...if an average player like me can kill 9guy with 7seven assist dying juste one time in a deathmatch even against a bad team thats a real probleme.

[Ryuku-sama]

if the only way to see an unskilled noob having a bad ratio is to focus him... maybe there is a balance issue no? If your skilled player have to lose their time killing noob in gunship because they are a danger... your team is in trouble.

 

i'am not a skilled player. yesterday i was playing with my rerol just want some quick xp lets go starfighter. only stock ship so... Gunship. two bad team. no one to hunt me. 9/7/1 ratio at the end of the game...if an average player like me can kill 9guy with 7seven assist dying juste one time in a deathmatch even against a bad team thats a real probleme.

 

9/7/1 against a bad team in a GS IS bad. you could have gotten about 15/12/0. Seriously you need to learn the differance between 'focusing' someone and me looking at a glowing yellow ball and killing it. The first take some effort, the second just need me to spend some engine and a few seconds. If people would understand that the awareness range is 15km and not 6km gunships wouldn't be so blatantly powerful. Problem is people mindset, not the ship.

[Bolo_Yeung]

Cluster of gunships 6-7km from each other means the only way of harming them = own gunship wall. Sure, in 1 vs 1 T2 scout > T1/T3 GS (assuming both pilots have equal and high skill) - but only itf the scout mentioned actively hunt the GS. If GS gets opening shot with ion - scout is as good as dead. Opening with slug - heavily damaged (assuming it didn't crit, in this case evasion build is one-shotted).

Vs other ships - strikes won't do well in close quarters,

 

Finally... anyone who says 'L2P' against gunships should see what types of ships have most kills in most matches

 

For me, personally, gunships and bombers was one grand mistake in this game. They are changing a dynamic match in a game of chess.

[Callly]

9/7/1 against a bad team in a GS IS bad. you could have gotten about 15/12/0. Seriously you need to learn the differance between 'focusing' someone and me looking at a glowing yellow ball and killing it. The first take some effort, the second just need me to spend some engine and a few seconds. If people would understand that the awareness range is 15km and not 6km gunships wouldn't be so blatantly powerful. Problem is people mindset, not the ship.

 

lol a few second to kill a gunship? you have a teleportation? the time you come in range the gunship can kill like 2people... you will not win a deathmatch like that...

[Asbetos]

The only ppl that are disagreeing that GSF is mostly about gear have given zero proof or evidence. You can say how amazing you do with the starter two ships but that doesn't actually make it true. I can claim I'm better at basketball than MJ in his prime but that doesn't make it true.

 

No evidence? Here, a reminder that you either keep ignoring or forgetting, mr. Goldfish:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330

[Callly]

Cluster of gunships 6-7km from each other means the only way of harming them = own gunship wall. Sure, in 1 vs 1 T2 scout > T1/T3 GS (assuming both pilots have equal and high skill) - but only itf the scout mentioned actively hunt the GS. If GS gets opening shot with ion - scout is as good as dead. Opening with slug - heavily damaged (assuming it didn't crit, in this case evasion build is one-shotted).

Vs other ships - strikes won't do well in close quarters,

 

Finally... anyone who says 'L2P' against gunships should see what types of ships have most kills in most matches

 

For me, personally, gunships and bombers was one grand mistake in this game. They are changing a dynamic match in a game of chess.

 

+1 and each time i read L2P against gunships the guy are talking about 1 on 1 fight... this is not a duel game. how it happens in real fight?

 

you are in a dogfight with another strike or scout then a sniper come. he hit you. what's your choice? you can try to outranged it. but you are damaged and you will be an easy target for the strike/scout. trying to kill the GS? no no chance the strike will kill you. trying to finish you fight? the sniper will kill you.

 

yeah i can kill a gunship with ease no probleme like everyone here. but if i'am stuck in a fight when a sniper come from me? i'am dead. even if the gunship is a noob with a stock ship.

 

Actually its look like the scoundrel ant the operative at the very beginning. if he caughts you, you dont have any response your dead. if you caught him? he's dead too... not interesting at all...

Edited September 22, 2014 by Callly

[Fractalsponge]

+1 and each time i read L2P against gunships the guy are talking about 1 on 1 fight... this is not a duel game. how it happens in real fight?

 

you are in a dogfight with another strike or scout then a sniper come. he hit you. what's your choice? you can try to outranged it. but you are damaged and you will be an easy target for the strike/scout. trying to kill the GS? no no chance the strike will kill you. trying to finish you fight? the sniper will kill you.

 

yeah i can kill a gunship with ease no probleme like everyone here. but if i'am stuck in a fight when a sniper come from me? i'am dead. even if the gunship is a noob with a stock ship.

 

I hate this argument, because it's a bad argument - tangential at best and dishonest at worst. You can't dismiss a 1v1 comparison by using a 1v2 comparison.

 

Let me rephrase things a bit:

"You are in a fight with with another strike or scout then a second scout comes. He hits you with a telemetry-boosted burst laser. What's your choice? You can try to outrun it, but you are damaged and low on engine pool from the dogfight and you will be an easy target for one of your opponents. Trying to kill the scout? No, no chance the first ship will kill you. Trying to finish your fight? The scout will kill you."

 

You are 1v2 in either situation, and you got hit badly by surprise right off the bat. Your odds of losing hard are pretty much the same, if not worse if the second ship is a scout. A quick barrel roll or cooldown/engine combo has a good chance of screwing up a gunship's second hit and giving you a chance of getting out of LOS. If it was a scout that jumped you, he'd boost, run you down, and hit you again with a BLC/missile combo, and you're guaranteed to be dead.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Fractalsponge

[Llama-Eight]

So people like me that been doing this for so long, that in starter ships DO finish tops, makes a massive difference in every match even with zero mods is not true? in our guild we have some of the best republic players on server, tilia, puc, alama, myself etc and ive seen these guys do exactly same in stock ships its not just me,

 

Where do u get this 95% of player base think it? and its a dieing game? i can barely do anything in game between queue pops, its more active now than at start. that to me seems growth not death. most people that say mods mean everything normally are baddies at gsf or rely solely on mods. u say they spend cc to max them, but even to do that u have to play in stock ships, with cc u cant just buy a stack of ship reqs all u can do is change the ones u earned into fleet. as for cartel ships there just shells of exhisting ships anyone can get and no mods completed.

 

your argument is flawed since u offer no reason why a person with no mods can not be conpetitive? my argument is not based on what ifs, maybe's, we do it. come to red eclipse ill create a new char and link u my stats to say zero mods braught and ill wipe floor with you. i have a char on rep and emp that has zero mods i use to have some fun. dont get me wrong i do die and some of the guys on these forums know not to leave me alone to long and focus me and ill die but i give as good as i get stock or maxed ship.

 

He's a troll mate, he doesn't care about anyone else's argument (or even reality), there's really not much point in continuing "discussing" anything with him...

[Callly]

I hate this argument, because it's a bad argument - tangential at best and dishonest at worst. You can't dismiss a 1v1 comparison by using a 1v2 comparison.

 

Let me rephrase things a bit:

"You are in a fight with with another strike or scout then a second scout comes. He hits you with a telemetry-boosted burst laser. What's your choice? You can try to outrun it, but you are damaged and low on engine pool from the dogfight and you will be an easy target for one of your opponents. Trying to kill the scout? No, no chance the first ship will kill you. Trying to finish your fight? The scout will kill you."

 

You are 1v2 in either situation, and you got hit badly by surprise right off the bat. Your odds of losing hard are pretty much the same, if not worse if the second ship is a scout. A quick barrel roll or cooldown/engine combo has a good chance of screwing up a gunship's second hit and giving you a chance of getting out of LOS. If it was a scout that jumped you, he'd boost, run you down, and hit you again with a BLC/missile combo, and you're guaranteed to be dead.

 

no a sniper hit in a dogfight will generaly put me really low life. so its like a big target on my head EASYKILL HERE. if i outranged the 2 scouts with a good amount of health. in direction of my team i will be generaly safe. Too risky to follow. If they just need 2 or 3 hit to kill me they will follow..

 

and the point is one on one against sniper... that dosen't exist. so why always talking about one on one? a sniper have plenty of target in front of him you come from the side. If he's good he flees in the right directions to put you in danger. if not he just die here trying to hit more people.

 

But one on one?

[mattycutts]

no a sniper hit in a dogfight will generaly put me really low life. so its like a big target on my head EASYKILL HERE. if i outranged the 2 scouts with a good amount of health. in direction of my team i will be generaly safe. Too risky to follow. If they just need 2 or 3 hit to kill me they will follow..

 

and the point is one on one against sniper... that dosen't exist. so why always talking about one on one? a sniper have plenty of target in front of him you come from the side. If he's good he flees in the right directions to put you in danger. if not he just die here trying to hit more people.

 

But one on one?

 

Yes 1 on 1's do happen, rare yes but does happen. in pug teams quite often im the only one going after gunships so its me v 1,2,3 gunships, win some, lose some, depends on the quality of gunship pilot im against and if im having a good game or a bad game.

 

mistake many make with gunships is that 1st hit they sit there looking for where target is, BANG ya dead. on my scout, fighter, moment i take one hit that either strips my shields or good bit of damage to hull i dont try to find the gunship im outter there regroup my self find the gunship while on move never stopping then plan my attack run (all in split of a second ofc).

 

more often than not i fly around on fire doesnt mean its over for me, never stop keep fighting, lead person following u round tight corners, tight spaces type of thing be quite surprised how many actually self distruct crashing. oh and dont forget most teams now have at least one bomber or a clarion, or t3 scout running repair drone, little tip look for them know ya teams where abouts.

 

and if a gunship flee's. whats ya problem, hes out of the fight not an issue for u right now or ya team.

 

fighting gunships or 1 v2 is a massive learn to play issue, its not in the heads of just a few of us, i see it i do it,