The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[Heal-To-Full]

It could be people using aliases to avoid the stigma being associated with their mains.

They don't have mains.

 

Track them down by the GTN terminal and check the achievement points - you can tell by someone's achievement score whether they're an actual player or not. Ones I checked had under 100 points, just for leaving the noobworld and for the amount of credits.

[LordArtemis]

This argument is silly, has been silly from the beginning.

 

it is time for the tennis match to end.

 

Here are the suggestions so far.

 

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

9) Add a toggle to remove the display of fractional currency in the "price per item" field.

 

I support 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9. I really like 2, 6 and 9.

 

Instead of arguing back and forth over who is at fault and why, we should be discussing the merits of the changes proposed based on their QoL potential.

[robertthebard]

There is nothing to refute . i Also Don't sell on the gtn very often and when i so i want t a quick sale so i usually under cut the lowest price by alot . My issue with this thread is people blaming others and not taking responsibility for their own mistakes .

 

It's The simple irrefutable fact that if you take your own advice and take the proper care and attention to what you are doing on the gtn the one truth of the matter is .

 

If you use the tools available prop[erly simply doesnt matter what someone sell anything for nothing anyone ever sell at whatever nefarious price they want to sell it at on the gtn will affect you .

 

This seems to be a really huge deal for you to have it left alone, I still ask, why is that? Can I make up my own forum rules too, and tell you that you have to address it before you can address anything else, or is that something that only you can do?

[LordArtemis]

There is no need to debate who is guilty and why any longer. The back and forth HAS no ending as long as folks on BOTH SIDES refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions.

 

What would be more productive, IMO, is to discuss the merits of the proposed suggestions.

[azudelphi]

This argument is silly, has been silly from the beginning.

 

it is time for the tennis match to end.

 

Here are the suggestions so far.

 

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

9) Add a toggle to remove the display of fractional currency in the "price per item" field.

 

I can fully support 4 and 6. I see no problems with implementing 7 and 8. As long as the rest are optional and not default, then I can say sure.

 

I would also add an option to make all posts be unified in decimals; so even for integer price per unit it would display XXX.00

 

With all that said, sure they would be nice QoL, but still feel most are unnecessary :/

[LordArtemis]

I can fully support 4 and 6. I see no problems with implementing 7 and 8. As long as the rest are optional and not default, then I can say sure.

 

I would also add an option to make all posts be unified in decimals; so even for integer price per unit it would display XXX.00

 

With all that said, sure they would be nice QoL, but still feel most are unnecessary :/

 

What you mention, if I am not mistaken, is right justification. If the amounts displayed were right justified the decimal would line up for all amounts that display fractional currency.

[azudelphi]

What you mention, if I am not mistaken, is right justification. If the amounts displayed were right justified the decimal would line up for all amounts that display fractional currency.

 

This may be a matter of interpretation.

 

When I read right justification I thought something to the effect of:

 

314

3.14

 

Where with decimal uniformity I mean it would display as:

314.00

3.14

 

If that was included in your suggestion then it was merely a misinterpretation.

[dscount]

The GTN has a BROKEN MECHANIC UI - Bioware please FIX... problem solved.

 

Try it out for yourself:

1) Goto GTN - Search by VIAL ISOTOPE

2) Note result is NOT Sorted by LOWEST as shown with triangle on price (Broken search feedback - This is the UI BUG that is creating the ripoff artists dream. The numbers are all mixed values on this initial search with high, low, middle, etc. being returned.

3) You will see some Scumsuckers (Since scammer was too strong for a few) have multiple high end items and tend to post several of them for same stupid price (27,333,999 for 1 ISO in my search and the other sucker was 26,676,101 - he was out posted)

4) Clicking the SORT option for the FIRST time now puts all the scumsucker posts at top. (So highest PRICE is showing now) - Not what you would expect, but only way to tell is click this multiple times to compare

5) Average user has to CLICK sort column AGAIN to get the lowest price....

 

Hence the issue... people click it once thinking it's giving them lowest price when in fact it's just screwing them.

 

First SEARCH Result - comments made in RED and names removed.

http://i.imgur.com/5vrrFyd.jpg

 

First CLICK from SEARCH Result - Makes it go HIGHEST Price since first is clearly BROKEN UI)

http://i.imgur.com/ckDq48S.jpg

[LyraineAlei]

It's highly unlikely that ANYONE is ever going to get into the habit of typing a maximum price into the GTN every time they're doing a GTN search. Not even 1 person. That's far too much of a hassle.

 

I do. Every time I go GTN shopping for stackables, I put in a max price. Keeps the pages shorter than 500 to go through, since I don't care how many are in a stack, I'm not paying more than 100,000 credits total. Unless I can't even find one item I am shopping for for less than that.

 

But I use the max price filter every time.

 

Solutions for preventing mistaken GTN purchases will take the form of "always-on" protections. You know, like traffic signals for pedestrians that keep them from being killed by moving vehicles while walking through a busy intersection.

 

Would be nice if most of those pedestrians who get hit used the intersection in the first place. Most PersonvVehicle collision happen outside of an intersection. This is coming from someone who has been personally hit by a car in an unmarked intersection, BTW..

 

 

It's the "I have to see my name in print" syndrome. They truly want a thread to die, but are constitutionally unable to not post in it, thereby preventing it from dying. It's like the "it's not an issue" crowd. Had they just left the threads alone, they'd never have grown to the proportions they have, but again, they have to get their bash on.

 

Huh. Those people are very helpful to the conversation, then.

 

 

On the suggestions, I support expanding /ignore to the GTN, auto-sorting listings by price low-high, and the alignment shift to line up the decimals.

 

The current auto-sorting is most recent to least recent, based on how much time is left on the timer.

[HammerOneOne]

There is no need to debate who is guilty and why any longer.

 

Isn't this what the internet is for?

[Vandicus]

I do. Every time I go GTN shopping for stackables, I put in a max price. Keeps the pages shorter than 500 to go through, since I don't care how many are in a stack, I'm not paying more than 100,000 credits total. Unless I can't even find one item I am shopping for for less than that.

 

But I use the max price filter every time.

 

Another example of market inefficiency created by the current system.

 

You pay higher than average costs for mats, you charge consumers more to compensate for your higher cost of production and move less volume because of it.

 

Game should really allow the breaking up of lots and employ matching, this'd increase trade volume and dramatically reduce time spent for evaluating prices.

[ScarletBlaze]

The GTN has a BROKEN MECHANIC UI - Bioware please FIX... problem solved.

 

Try it out for yourself:

1) Goto GTN - Search by VIAL ISOTOPE

2) Note result is NOT Sorted by LOWEST as shown with triangle on price (Broken search feedback - This is the UI BUG that is creating the ripoff artists dream. The numbers are all mixed values on this initial search with high, low, middle, etc. being returned.

3) You will see some Scumsuckers (Since scammer was too strong for a few) have multiple high end items and tend to post several of them for same stupid price (27,333,999 for 1 ISO in my search and the other sucker was 26,676,101 - he was out posted)

4) Clicking the SORT option for the FIRST time now puts all the scumsucker posts at top. (So highest PRICE is showing now) - Not what you would expect, but only way to tell is click this multiple times to compare

5) Average user has to CLICK sort column AGAIN to get the lowest price....

 

Hence the issue... people click it once thinking it's giving them lowest price when in fact it's just screwing them.

 

First SEARCH Result - comments made in RED and names removed.

http://i.imgur.com/5vrrFyd.jpg

 

First CLICK from SEARCH Result - Makes it go HIGHEST Price since first is clearly BROKEN UI)

http://i.imgur.com/ckDq48S.jpg

 

 

This also happens for any item including the Mass Manipulators Generators and do you know what I do? I double check to be sure it is listing the lowest price first. I don't buy the items until I sort the unit price to the lowest price first.

 

I also have my pop up still on (even after 3 years) to have an extra precaution when I am purchasing items on the GTN.

 

Some changes would be nicer and make it easier but until they do I will continue being careful in what I purchase.

Edited November 11, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[_NovaBlast_]

This also happens for any item including the Mass Manipulators Generators and do you know what I do? I double check to be sure it is listing the lowest price first. I don't buy the items until I sort the unit price to the lowest price first.

 

Some changes would be nicer and make it easier but until they do I will continue being careful in what I purchase.

 

+! to this . Unfortunately the people living on a world they still believe is flat double checking and being more careful is a "blasphemous" suggestion is considered heresy.

 

They rather blame someone else and have a "fix" put in than take such a suggestion.

Edited November 11, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Brewski]

+! to this . Unfortunately the people living on a world they still believe is flat double checking and being more careful is a "blasphemous" suggestion is considered heresy.

 

They rather blame someone else and have a "fix" put in than take such a suggestion.

 

Or it's possible they are suggesting simple, easy to implement, quality of life improvements that would make using the GTN simpler and more fun for everyone.

 

Not everyone who disagrees with you is doing so on what you seem to perceive as religious grounds. Some of us just want the game to be a little better for everyone.

 

Sure, I can click the header to resort the prices on every single search, and as long as said searches come in unsorted, I will continue to do so. But it would be nicer if it just came in sorted in a logical manner when I hit search.

 

Likewise, I can squint at the screen to double check the placement of the decimal on every purchase, and until they remove the decimal value and right align the prices, I will continue to do so. But it would be nicer if the prices were listed in a more logical and easy to read format.

 

Do we need these changes? No. Would they make life a little better on the SWTOR GTN UI? Yes.

 

So why rail against them?

Edited November 11, 2014 by Brewski

[Vandicus]

+! to this . Unfortunately the people living on a world they still believe is flat double checking and being more careful is a "blasphemous" suggestion is considered heresy.

 

They rather blame someone else and have a "fix" put in than take such a suggestion.

 

Unfortunately we have people like you who have an ideological drive against efficiency and the employment of fail-safes.

 

Only doomsday preppers and anarchists take individual responsibility in its entirety. Everyone else(most likely including you), compromises.

 

In a world where individual responsibility is absolute, people wouldn't rely on a national government to safeguard them from invasion or to enforce contracts.

 

In making an agreement with another individual, per individual responsibility, you bear the risk of them not upholding their word(after all you have the option of working with anyone else).

 

Per collective responsibility, contracts are enforced by government authority.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[Nadru]

Personally I feel it is the responsibility of the person to know what they are buying. A lot of the suggestions here don't really solve the issue anymore than paying attention. I once bought an item that sells for a million for 10k and quickly turned it around. The seller made a mistake. As a buyer I always sort the lists several times to make sure I am buying the cheapest item.

[LordArtemis]

This may be a matter of interpretation.

 

When I read right justification I thought something to the effect of:

 

314

3.14

 

Where with decimal uniformity I mean it would display as:

314.00

3.14

 

If that was included in your suggestion then it was merely a misinterpretation.

 

No, actually the suggestion in the list would list whole numbers as you indicated. I see what you were saying, in other words have all currency line up by the decimal point...would they need to display 00 for non fractional currency as a result?

[LordArtemis]

On the suggestions, I support expanding /ignore to the GTN, auto-sorting listings by price low-high, and the alignment shift to line up the decimals.

 

The current auto-sorting is most recent to least recent, based on how much time is left on the timer.

 

Thanks, appreciate that. Do you dislike the idea of having the option to list items by "price per unit" as an option?

[LordArtemis]

Isn't this what the internet is for?

 

Perhaps, but that is also how the term "insanity" was defined by Albert Einstein.

[LordArtemis]

Personally I feel it is the responsibility of the person to know what they are buying. A lot of the suggestions here don't really solve the issue anymore than paying attention. I once bought an item that sells for a million for 10k and quickly turned it around. The seller made a mistake. As a buyer I always sort the lists several times to make sure I am buying the cheapest item.

 

Right. IMO the suggestions are not about solving the problem, because the problem can not be solved. However, it is a good idea to consider the suggestions based on their QoL merit.

 

It is, after all, how we got "price per unit" added to the GTN.

[LordArtemis]

New suggestion list, one new one added.

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

9) Add a toggle to remove the display of fractional currency in the "price per item" field.

10) Line up all prices on the decimal, and display .00 for non fractional amounts.

 

I support 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9. I really like 2, 6 and 9.

[anonnn]

Here's the solution that gets it done. It has the following characteristics:

.

• for the more expensive purchases, forces the Purchase Confirmation to always show for 5 seconds
  .
  
• puts the price in the Purchase Confirmation in bright, brighter, and brightest text depending on the level of price
  

.

Two small safe changes. And it becomes FAR more difficult to lose a lot of credits making accidental GTN purchases.

[Vandicus]

Perhaps, but that is also how the term "insanity" was defined by Albert Einstein.

 

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.”

-Thomas Edison

 

It just goes to show quotes are only applicable in certain contexts(and for the most part using quotes liberally in an attempt to support an argument is very weak). There are many circumstances where compartmentalization of experiences is extremely detrimental(previous failures do not always reflect future probability of success).

 

We have already surpassed the point of debating whether changing the way the GTN UI works is desirable(aside from those who are opposed to QoL improvements), as Bioware and players have expressed interest in making changes to the GTN so that it can be more easily and efficiently used.

 

It may be more accurate to term rehashing the debate as regression compared to the current point, but it was only our continuous rehashing of the debate that eventually brought us to the discussion of commonsense improvements to the GTN.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[LordArtemis]

It may be more accurate to term rehashing the debate as regression compared to the current point, but it was only our continuous rehashing of the debate that eventually brought us to the discussion of commonsense improvements to the GTN.

 

I disagree. Most folks involved in the discussion refused to discuss the merits of the improvements and instead chose to argue back and forth, making the same points over and over again. There are folks that have been trying to speak to the merits of the suggestions since the topic began.

 

The road to sane discussion was derailed by inane chatter, not paved by it.

[anonnn]

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

 

These 2 are lightweight enough changes that I think they'd consider adding them without much deliberation. And they'd go great with my suggested changes to help reduce GTN purchase errors.