Dear Bioware....from a Progression raider

[holmeskywalkr]

Hey Kal i saw your raid with Zorz nice man what was their feedback despite nerf content?

[Marb]

Sniper can provide 25% DR for 20 seconds every 3 minutes or 2:30 in Engineering. Pretty much a 40% DR for 10 seconds every rough 5 minutes would be along the grounds of fair. The AOE taunt bubble in turn should be a utility rather than a buffed version of our new utility. All and all we'll have to wait an see, they could even go down the path of giving jugg Bloodthrist and having every advanced class share each others utility which would be the better outcome.

 

I was wondering the same thing about jugg getting bloodthirst, and then every base class gets a utility skill instead of every AC. However, some parts of the live stream could indicate otherwise:

 

 

• Unlimited Power was located under the sorcerer category for abilities, instead of inquisitor, perhaps implying that assassin gets something different?
   
   
  
• David made a vague mention of duplicate defensive utilities being able to stack, which could indicate there are more coming for other classes (he could have been referring to sniper shield only though.)
  

Edited October 10, 2014 by Marb

[Luckygunslinger]

I was wondering the same thing about jugg getting bloodthirst, and then every base class gets a utility skill instead of every AC. However, some parts of the live stream could indicate otherwise:

 

 

• Unlimited Power was located under the sorcerer category for abilities, instead of inquisitor, perhaps implying that assassin gets something different?
   
   
  
• David made a vague mention of duplicate defensive utilities being able to stack, which could indicate there are more coming for other classes (he could have been referring to sniper shield only though.)
  

 

Good eyes Marb didn't notice Unlimited Power's location. I don't know. I'm sceptical because the utilities sound so good that defensive ones, four to be exact, need to be -very- appealing to be taken on a raid. Now, I know that in the launch, this won't matter. How ever when push comes to shove, do we take Unlimited Power? Or do we take.....

 

Beacon of Hope: Emits a light that increases defense by 10% for 10 seconds across all raid members.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Luckygunslinger

[TACeMossie]

Good eyes Marb didn't notice Unlimited Power's location. I don't know. I'm sceptical because the utilities sound so good that defensive ones, four to be exact, need to be -very- appealing to be taken on a raid. Now, I know that in the launch, this won't matter. How ever when push comes to shove, do we take Unlimited Power? Or do we take.....

 

Beacon of Hope: Emits a light that increases defense by 10% for 10 seconds across all raid members.

 

But but but

 

"Predation: Requires and converts 30 stacks of Fury to issue Predation to you and your group, increasing movement speed by 50% and melee and ranged defense by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds."

 

[Luckygunslinger]

But but but

 

"Predation: Requires and converts 30 stacks of Fury to issue Predation to you and your group, increasing movement speed by 50% and melee and ranged defense by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds."

 

 

Kwerty, this actually a point I brought up with my guildies in mumble after the stream. Predation already grants defense increase so in turn, a new predation would be like a bloated hand me down without the speed boost which is the primary reason it's used.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Luckygunslinger

[GrandLordMenace]

Kwerty, this actually a point I brought up with my guildies in mumble after the stream. Predation already grants defense increase so in turn, a new predation would be like a bloated hand me down without the speed boost which is the primary reason it's used.

 

IMO sent shouldn't have both inspiration and transcendance.

Edited October 12, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[Joran-Koon]

Hey Kal i saw your raid with Zorz nice man what was their feedback despite nerf content?

Hey thanks man. Feedback on what? Me or the nerfed content lol?

[Marb]

So I've been thinking about the utility buffs and I have some concerns.

 

If healers and tanks can provide these buffs, doesn't that defeat the purpose of improving the utility of dps specs from healer and tank AC's to better compare with sniper/marauder? Now this wouldn't be an issue if AC's with tank and heal specs had utility buffs that could stack, but we know from the livestream that the sorcerer, mercenary and operative group buffs don't stack.

 

I could be wrong but as I understand it, the way the devs are implementing this means that non marauder/sniper dps specs wont be providing "unique" raid utility if tanks and healers can still provide these buffs. What's the justification for a jugg tank to have a raid wide buff of the same calibre as ballistic shield or bloodthirst?

Edited October 12, 2014 by Marb

[Manweth]

IMO sent shouldn't have both inspiration and transcendance.

 

Yet, they will have that, and one extra. We won't have anything. Apparently, armor debuff counts as a raidwide buff.

 

 

I may be risking another long ban with this first post in months, but hey, fudge it.

 

They showed how much they give a fudge when they openly mocked us with the "4.0 flight" joke. We will get the short straw again, mark my words.

[znihilist]

 

They showed how much they give a fudge when they openly mocked us with the "4.0 flight" joke. We will get the short straw again, mark my words.

 

Is trolling the only reason you are here?

The question was in itself a joke! "When do juggs get to fly ?" is not a serious question that demands a serious reply!

Edited October 12, 2014 by znihilist

[holmeskywalkr]

Hey thanks man. Feedback on what? Me or the nerfed content lol?

 

You

[Joran-Koon]

You

Haven't been Gkicked yet so...lol

[veSev]

What's the justification for a jugg tank to have a raid wide buff of the same calibre as ballistic shield or bloodthirst?

 

Personally, I don't believe we should have as good of a utility ability as BT or BS. It would detract from using a pure dps class if they take a more balanced DPS approach depending on what utilities they offer other classes. While I am not a big fan of BT to begin with, this is probably half the reason, beyond the pure DPS output they have atm, that Mara/Sents are brought to raids. I wouldn't want to discourage not bringing a class because it lacks utility. However, I believe the current Jugg/Guard utility is lacking across the board. As a DPS, we offer a armor debuff and taunt. That's really it. Are these good utilities? Yes, but they aren't necessary when you compare us to other classes. If a group ran a comp with a sniper and PT that instantly nullifies us, provided they are quality players, between their utilities and damage output. I guess when you break it down, its not that Jugg/Guard have bad utilities its that we dont have any uniqueness to ours.

 

I am hopeful that they remove the huge variables in damage output and offer unique utilties to classes that make having any group comp work. Thier should be DPS differences, but not at the large contrast we see now between the lowest specs and the top. The trouble you run into, similar to earlier days in 2.0, is making it near necessary for a majority of raid groups to run a Mara and Sniper, most times 2 snipers, because of their utilities. It wouldn't surprise me if they add in debuffs for class unique utilities like they did with BT in order to discourage a group from running multiples of one class.

 

Edit: Forgot to add Intercede/Guardian Leap as a utility, but honestly havent seen big need for it outside of a 2nd gap closer to get back to the group quickly. Others can probably make a better case for this as a utility than I.

Edited October 12, 2014 by veSev

[Andrew_Past]

Hey guys, I'll be more active with 3.0 coming around the corner. I've been keeping track of things over the last few months, and am excited to see what changes are coming.

 

I really like the looks of the new Discipline/Utilities system. While I'll miss my Infiltration/Balance hybrid, the new system will really streamline specs in a way that the developers can balance them much more effectively. I suspect that within 6 months after 3.0 release, DPS parses will be almost exactly where they should be. Perhaps even sooner, as the Disciplines system will allow developers to easily add or subtract without effecting other trees. The change also solves the talent bloat concern that Vigilance has had for a long time.

 

Utilities will probably benefit Focus in PVP the most. When played well, Focus can still put up good numbers in PVP. However, it lacks survivability compared to Vigilance. I'm suspecting that getting access to some of the Defense and Vigilance talents will give Focus what it needs to stay up in a fight.

 

Speaking of Focus, in response to one of my questions, the developers mentioned that they had plans to increase single target DPS of Focus. I'm guessing that 3.0 is when we will see that change. I don't have any speculation how they might do it, though. However, if you look at the changes that Lightning Sorcs are getting (more instants, burst, debuffs, a moving cast, etc.,) I'm betting that the changes to Focus will be something we haven't seen before.

 

Now, for some predictions.

AC-wide passives - One thing I noticed with the Sorc changes was a lack of some key talents. Most notably, the accuracy, resource, and main stat talents were nowhere to be seen in the new Sorc Disciplines. These talents are important to all sorc specs. This leads me to believe that the talents that are commonly chosen by multiple trees currently will be made into passives for the whole AC. For Guarians, I would suspect this will happen with the following talents: Victory Rush, Single Saber Mastery, Improved Sundering Strike, Accuracy, and Perseverance. Possibly Master Focus, Insight, and Swift Slash as well.

 

Replacement talents - When watching the stream, I noticed a pattern -- most Disciplines are getting an ability to replace some base ability. In the stream they mentioned that Lightning Strike is replaced in Lightning, Crushing Darkness is replaced in Madness, and Unload is replaced in Arsenal (and a mobile channel.)

 

That got me thinking as to what abilities might be replaced for Guardians. For Focus, I believe Slash will be replaced. This would be in a similar fashion to Lightning's Lightning Strike being replaced. For Vigilance, there's really only two options, unless they change how our rotation works. Option one is Bladestorm. Doing this could be a way to give a bit more teeth to mobile burst. However, I think the replacement skill will be Master Strike. If they do this, I'm guessing that they will make the animation work on the move. That way, the devs can solve two complaints. Being stationary in PVE, and too many roots in PVP. Not sure what they would replace for Defense.

 

Utilities - This is where things will get interesting. I think a hard stun via Stasis mastery is coming. That alone could really change how both DPS specs play out. Others would also be pretty huge. Commanding Awe, Battlefield Command (working in all stances,) Stasis Mastery, Jedi Warden, Intervention, and Inner Peace are all very powerful talents that are likely going to be seen as Utilities. And of course, there's still the matter of the new "must have" utility similar to the mobile channel utility for sorcs.

[TACeMossie]

Hey guys, I'll be more active with 3.0 coming around the corner. I've been keeping track of things over the last few months, and am excited to see what changes are coming.

 

I really like the looks of the new Discipline/Utilities system. While I'll miss my Infiltration/Balance hybrid, the new system will really streamline specs in a way that the developers can balance them much more effectively. I suspect that within 6 months after 3.0 release, DPS parses will be almost exactly where they should be. Perhaps even sooner, as the Disciplines system will allow developers to easily add or subtract without effecting other trees. The change also solves the talent bloat concern that Vigilance has had for a long time.

 

Utilities will probably benefit Focus in PVP the most. When played well, Focus can still put up good numbers in PVP. However, it lacks survivability compared to Vigilance. I'm suspecting that getting access to some of the Defense and Vigilance talents will give Focus what it needs to stay up in a fight.

 

Speaking of Focus, in response to one of my questions, the developers mentioned that they had plans to increase single target DPS of Focus. I'm guessing that 3.0 is when we will see that change. I don't have any speculation how they might do it, though. However, if you look at the changes that Lightning Sorcs are getting (more instants, burst, debuffs, a moving cast, etc.,) I'm betting that the changes to Focus will be something we haven't seen before.

 

Now, for some predictions.

AC-wide passives - One thing I noticed with the Sorc changes was a lack of some key talents. Most notably, the accuracy, resource, and main stat talents were nowhere to be seen in the new Sorc Disciplines. These talents are important to all sorc specs. This leads me to believe that the talents that are commonly chosen by multiple trees currently will be made into passives for the whole AC. For Guarians, I would suspect this will happen with the following talents: Victory Rush, Single Saber Mastery, Improved Sundering Strike, Accuracy, and Perseverance. Possibly Master Focus, Insight, and Swift Slash as well.

 

Replacement talents - When watching the stream, I noticed a pattern -- most Disciplines are getting an ability to replace some base ability. In the stream they mentioned that Lightning Strike is replaced in Lightning, Crushing Darkness is replaced in Madness, and Unload is replaced in Arsenal (and a mobile channel.)

 

That got me thinking as to what abilities might be replaced for Guardians. For Focus, I believe Slash will be replaced. This would be in a similar fashion to Lightning's Lightning Strike being replaced. For Vigilance, there's really only two options, unless they change how our rotation works. Option one is Bladestorm. Doing this could be a way to give a bit more teeth to mobile burst. However, I think the replacement skill will be Master Strike. If they do this, I'm guessing that they will make the animation work on the move. That way, the devs can solve two complaints. Being stationary in PVE, and too many roots in PVP. Not sure what they would replace for Defense.

 

Utilities - This is where things will get interesting. I think a hard stun via Stasis mastery is coming. That alone could really change how both DPS specs play out. Others would also be pretty huge. Commanding Awe, Battlefield Command (working in all stances,) Stasis Mastery, Jedi Warden, Intervention, and Inner Peace are all very powerful talents that are likely going to be seen as Utilities. And of course, there's still the matter of the new "must have" utility similar to the mobile channel utility for sorcs.

 

I honestly thought it would be scream/blade storm for Vig and Sweep/Smash for focus. Mainly cause i'd prefer to move damage further away from Master Strike and into the focus-users (Blade Storm, Overhead Slash, Plasma Brand, Dispatch), and when we looked at the shared tree for Sorcs/Sages, the ability that was replaced was the one that was heavily buffed in the tree. Also Slash gets replaced with Combat's "Blade Rush" on a sentinel, and I doubt Slash will get replaced in 2 Disciplines of the same AC, so sweep makes more sense as the replacement option

[GrandLordMenace]

I honestly thought it would be scream/blade storm for Vig and Sweep/Smash for focus. Mainly cause i'd prefer to move damage further away from Master Strike and into the focus-users (Blade Storm, Overhead Slash, Plasma Brand, Dispatch), and when we looked at the shared tree for Sorcs/Sages, the ability that was replaced was the one that was heavily buffed in the tree. Also Slash gets replaced with Combat's "Blade Rush" on a sentinel, and I doubt Slash will get replaced in 2 Disciplines of the same AC, so sweep makes more sense as the replacement option

 

Eh. I'd prefer they replace Master Strike and make it mobile. I'd bet they'd replace blade storm in combat (unless they are going with a "one replacement" system and one new ability.

 

We also need to consider, does Shien stance count as an ability or not?

Edited October 13, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[TACeMossie]

Eh. I'd prefer they replace Master Strike and make it mobile. I'd bet they'd replace blade storm in combat (unless they are going with a "one replacement" system and one new ability.

 

We also need to consider, does Shien stance count as an ability or not?

 

For sins, surging charge counted. So probably yes

[Andrew_Past]

Eh. I'd prefer they replace Master Strike and make it mobile. I'd bet they'd replace blade storm in combat (unless they are going with a "one replacement" system and one new ability.

 

We also need to consider, does Shien stance count as an ability or not?

 

Yeah, a master strike replacement would probably be more ideal.

 

The comments about moving damage away from master strike have all centered around the fact that you can't move while channeling it. If that changes with a replacement ability, then that solves a lot of problems.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Eh. I'd prefer they replace Master Strike and make it mobile. I'd bet they'd replace blade storm in combat (unless they are going with a "one replacement" system and one new ability.

 

We also need to consider, does Shien stance count as an ability or not?

 

Shien Stance does "count" but it's stupid that it does... in reality, i hope that all stances are removed from their specific Disciplines and moved to the Advanced Classes. Freeing up a new slot for a new skill.

[GrandLordMenace]

Shien Stance does "count" but it's stupid that it does... in reality, i hope that all stances are removed from their specific Disciplines and moved to the Advanced Classes. Freeing up a new slot for a new skill.

 

It's not that bad.

 

Without other specs able to get our stance, you DO realize they can add effects to it that normally wouldn't be possible!

 

(Think making the melee damage increase 20% )

Edited October 13, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[GrandLordMenace]

Yeah, a master strike replacement would probably be more ideal.

 

The comments about moving damage away from master strike have all centered around the fact that you can't move while channeling it. If that changes with a replacement ability, then that solves a lot of problems.

 

I do think that with movement we should lose the root.

[Andrew_Past]

I do think that with movement we should lose the root.

 

Agreed. That is one of the main complaints about it in PVP. Though, I do believe that we will be able to apply a snare easier with utility skills. Couple that with being mobile, and it will still be hard to get away from.

 

But the root should only go IF we get a mobile version of master strike. That's what I'm guessing will happen. Can't wait to see what they have in store for both Guardians and Sentinels.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Andrew_Past

[GrandLordMenace]

Agreed. That is one of the main complaints about it in PVP. Though, I do believe that we will be able to apply a snare easier with utility skills. Couple that with being mobile, and it will still be hard to get away from.

 

But the root should only go IF we get a mobile version of master strike. That's what I'm guessing will happen. Can't wait to see what they have in store for both Guardians and Sentinels.

 

Yeah.

 

The root itself is not OP for forcing you to stand in master strike, the root is "OP" due to the short CD and preventing someone from being moved. If we can move while master striking, we can ENSURE it hits, while the enemy still has the blessing of free movement, and can even outrun us occasionally (via leap or speedboost). I think this is fair.

[Vodamin]

The master strike root is not only pvp related issue. It is bad on some pve bosses too - like Brontes for example.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Yeah.

 

The root itself is not OP for forcing you to stand in master strike, the root is "OP" due to the short CD and preventing someone from being moved. If we can move while master striking, we can ENSURE it hits, while the enemy still has the blessing of free movement, and can even outrun us occasionally (via leap or speedboost). I think this is fair.

 

While, i like the idea of being able to move while Master Striking, it would look weird as ****.. i mean, look at the Vicious Slash animation for Marauders and Juggernauts and you can see how moving while using MS/Ravage would end up, it would be more ice skating shenanegins...