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Really, How stupid is it to buff PVE Shadow/Assassin and make them OP for PVP?

EarnestBunbury

By EarnestBunbury
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EarnestBunbury

EarnestBunbury

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Leaving combat at an opportune time, remaining in stealth while another Shadow/*** controls a node, then the other takes over... COME ON! Get your head around what it is you are doing.... having 2 to 6 shadows/***'s is a no win situation for the other side. Seen this for years now, buff this, make that OP for one instance or another.... THINK BIOWARE before just Casey Hudson leaves.... omg, this game has been out long enough to even things up at least better than this! I don't need to pvp but if I do, just give us the CHOICE to accept LOOSING comms BEFORE we waste 10-14 minutes of our lives we will NEVER get back. Yes, I'm angry, and yes the devs should have considered this before implementing it. Nuff said by me anyway.
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TheCourier-

TheCourier-

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If you're getting sap capped then the problem is you not the assassin/op.

 

That's not true. It is entirely possible for a juggernaut to do nothing wrong, and still get stealth capped because of instant whirlwind.

 

Phase walk, mind maze, phase walk, cap. Juggernaut CC breaks at 4 seconds (after calling out in chat), juggernaut saber throws, assassin whirlwinds, then caps.

 

I didn't read Earnestbunbury's post. I was commenting on the fact that I've seen skilled juggernauts get sap capped, and there wasn't much that they could do. That's why an assassin, operative, or tank PT should guard.

Edited by TheCourier-
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BarronWasteland

BarronWasteland

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Leaving combat at an opportune time, remaining in stealth while another Shadow/*** controls a node, then the other takes over... COME ON! Get your head around what it is you are doing.... having 2 to 6 shadows/***'s is a no win situation for the other side. Seen this for years now, buff this, make that OP for one instance or another.... THINK BIOWARE before just Casey Hudson leaves.... omg, this game has been out long enough to even things up at least better than this! I don't need to pvp but if I do, just give us the CHOICE to accept LOOSING comms BEFORE we waste 10-14 minutes of our lives we will NEVER get back. Yes, I'm angry, and yes the devs should have considered this before implementing it. Nuff said by me anyway.

 

That is why you don't stand right next to a node when guarding it. Next time stand far enough away that they do not have time to sap you then turn the node.

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t-darko

t-darko

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Leaving combat at an opportune time, remaining in stealth while another Shadow/*** controls a node, then the other takes over... COME ON! Get your head around what it is you are doing.... having 2 to 6 shadows/***'s is a no win situation for the other side. Seen this for years now, buff this, make that OP for one instance or another.... THINK BIOWARE before just Casey Hudson leaves.... omg, this game has been out long enough to even things up at least better than this! I don't need to pvp but if I do, just give us the CHOICE to accept LOOSING comms BEFORE we waste 10-14 minutes of our lives we will NEVER get back. Yes, I'm angry, and yes the devs should have considered this before implementing it. Nuff said by me anyway.

 

Seriously . . . you got a lot o'reading to do, about who and what class should do or not , when and where. . . this whine tells us you haven't been playing long and that you hate making a effort to find a counter move to those mean stealthers. Your answers are here on these forums, you might even find a solution reading one o'the sticky ones even. Or google, or a you can try a utube clip . . .

 

It's suppose to be hard, challenging . . .

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t-darko

t-darko

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That's not true. It is entirely possible for a juggernaut to do nothing wrong, and still get stealth capped because of instant whirlwind.

 

Phase walk, mind maze, phase walk, cap. Juggernaut CC breaks at 4 seconds (after calling out in chat), juggernaut saber throws, assassin whirlwinds, then caps.

 

I didn't read Earnestbunbury's post. I was commenting on the fact that I've seen skilled juggernauts get sap capped, and there wasn't much that they could do. That's why an assassin, operative, or tank PT should guard.

 

and a vanguard is the perfect guard against a stealth cap try, shoulder cannon works when stunned, use it and save the breaker until they try a whirlwind.

 

Resolve on the other hand, that a good topic of uselessness . . .

Edited by t-darko
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cs_zoltan

cs_zoltan

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That's not true. It is entirely possible for a juggernaut to do nothing wrong, and still get stealth capped because of instant whirlwind.

 

Phase walk, mind maze, phase walk, cap. Juggernaut CC breaks at 4 seconds (after calling out in chat), juggernaut saber throws, assassin whirlwinds, then caps.

 

If you are veng jugg you ARE doing it wrong. After breaker charge, you get cc immunity, use push right before immunity runs out then charge again, after cc immunity drop in some stuns and you made plenty of time for help to arrive (ofc this can be countered with shroud or stealth out, but that's why juggers don't guard).

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shyroman

shyroman

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and a vanguard is the perfect guard against a stealth cap try, shoulder cannon works when stunned, use it and save the breaker until they try a whirlwind.

 

Resolve on the other hand, that a good topic of uselessness . . .

 

They are perfect in all but civil war, stealthers can break line of sight using the node, making then just another standard node guard

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MidichIorian

MidichIorian

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Not really sure what this topic is about but just to weight in. I've always thought stealth mechanics generally suck. It's really boring to play with a bunch of stealthers as a non-stealth class and against teams with a bunch of stealthers. There's also this thing where seemingly every stealther thinks that he/she can be the hero, which results in a bunch of unorganized matches where everyone is spread across the map.

 

How I would fix it? I would put a lockout on stealth duration BUT at the same time allow them to re-stealth more often. This would allow more "from stealth" fighting but less sneaking around and stealth guarding. They could still guard but if they popped out of stealth every 10 or so seconds - followed by a 2 second lockout - it would atleast give the enemies a chance to acknowldege the guard or a potential INC. I also think a lot of stealthers would be less inclined to take off on hero missions if there was the risk that the other team could see them coming.

 

Changes like these would have to come with some tweaks to dot mechanics though, most likely in the form of battle-stealth also working as a cleanse.

Edited by MidichIorian
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Bonzenaattori

Bonzenaattori

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and a vanguard is the perfect guard against a stealth cap try, shoulder cannon works when stunned, use it and save the breaker until they try a whirlwind.

 

Resolve on the other hand, that a good topic of uselessness . . .

 

I like how this guy doesn't even mention the usage of stealth scan. xD

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EarnestBunbury

EarnestBunbury

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Wow, what help! thanks.... really should have known the "Q-Q" trolls are the ones usually here just to have a good laugh for themselves at someone's expense.

 

Pt.1: Bioware devs made changes to the stealth class of Shadow/Assassin that are great for PVE but made them more powered in PvP which I am thinking wasn't part of their goal nor did they seem to even think about it, in my opinion seeing how some matches are being played out. I have been in this game a long time and it is the only one I play consistantly.

 

Pt. 2: Recently I have seen that the more of these Shadows/Assassins in a PvP warzone the more likely the win for that team, particularly in Civil War or Voidstar. Now all classes have advantages/disadvantages and counter moves relative to each other but dot spec stealth class that can leave combat and that have the defenses of this group, is in my opinion, unbalanced.

 

Pt. 3: Other than point one, I don't freaking care really, I can roll a Shadow/A-ss and be op till the next BioWare misadventure of macro/micro managing this game till everyone leaves and servers dry up. This point three just wants to indicate that out of these changes indicated above, why wasn't it considered and regulated? Or is this the new "Swtor"... making one class op, like Scoundrel/Operative healers were a while back, and let people "play" to win for a while and try to make some cartel bucks off them? The retorts may commence anew...

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Cordorian

Cordorian

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Wow, what help! thanks.... really should have known the "Q-Q" trolls are the ones usually here just to have a good laugh for themselves at someone's expense.

 

Pt.1: Bioware devs made changes to the stealth class of Shadow/Assassin that are great for PVE but made them more powered in PvP which I am thinking wasn't part of their goal nor did they seem to even think about it, in my opinion seeing how some matches are being played out. I have been in this game a long time and it is the only one I play consistantly.

 

Pt. 2: Recently I have seen that the more of these Shadows/Assassins in a PvP warzone the more likely the win for that team, particularly in Civil War or Voidstar. Now all classes have advantages/disadvantages and counter moves relative to each other but dot spec stealth class that can leave combat and that have the defenses of this group, is in my opinion, unbalanced.

 

Pt. 3: Other than point one, I don't freaking care really, I can roll a Shadow/A-ss and be op till the next BioWare misadventure of macro/micro managing this game till everyone leaves and servers dry up. This point three just wants to indicate that out of these changes indicated above, why wasn't it considered and regulated? Or is this the new "Swtor"... making one class op, like Scoundrel/Operative healers were a while back, and let people "play" to win for a while and try to make some cartel bucks off them? The retorts may commence anew...

 

What changes are you particularly talking about?

 

I mean if two assassin troll you, they could do that with the proc on the finisher and higher dot damage in madness. Every competent stealth duo can sap cap the **** out of you and always could.

 

So yeah changes in particular do you mean, and why do you considering them game breaking?

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CrazyOldMystic

CrazyOldMystic

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Stealth classes need to be reworked plain and simple. They are way too arrogant and presumptuous in pvp right now.

Give you a small example

 

I was on my 55 merc in a warzone, mid civil war, my entire team goes off chasing there favorite little stats. Sometimes I could just imagine these people sitting down and crying up a storm if they did not have their stats to compare. Anyways they left me in the mid guarding a operative comes out stun locks me, I use my get out of jail free card, but by then my health is already near zero. I am stuck at close quarters and I died. Then some sob steather on my team gets pissed off because a merc was unable to stand up to the close quarter damage. WELL MAYBE IF SOME A HOLE DID NOT GET RID OF MY BLITZ EQUIVALENT I COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

 

My point is things have gotten so easy for stealthers they expect other classes like mercs and commandos to tank them, even though when they come out of stealth we are at the disadvantage. Never mind the stuns. What the hell we have two that work some times, got to love that, and the one only knocks them back.

 

I had to vent on that point I doubt anything will change as they are always trying to give stealth classes everything, mean while troopers and bounty hunters get the slightest buff its the end of the world.

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Ryuku-sama

Ryuku-sama

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Stealth classes need to be reworked plain and simple. They are way too arrogant and presumptuous in pvp right now.

Give you a small example

 

I was on my 55 merc in a warzone, mid civil war, my entire team goes off chasing there favorite little stats. Sometimes I could just imagine these people sitting down and crying up a storm if they did not have their stats to compare. Anyways they left me in the mid guarding a operative comes out stun locks me, I use my get out of jail free card, but by then my health is already near zero. I am stuck at close quarters and I died. Then some sob steather on my team gets pissed off because a merc was unable to stand up to the close quarter damage. WELL MAYBE IF SOME A HOLE DID NOT GET RID OF MY BLITZ EQUIVALENT I COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

 

My point is things have gotten so easy for stealthers they expect other classes like mercs and commandos to tank them, even though when they come out of stealth we are at the disadvantage. Never mind the stuns. What the hell we have two that work some times, got to love that, and the one only knocks them back.

 

I had to vent on that point I doubt anything will change as they are always trying to give stealth classes everything, mean while troopers and bounty hunters get the slightest buff its the end of the world.

 

An Op stun locked you -.- You do know they only have ONE single stun -.- And if he opened with Shoot First you should have poped Jet Boost... If an OP can complete his opener on a) a merc b) a sniper c) a PT d) a sorc e) a sin f) a jugg... Well they are bad.

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Cordorian

Cordorian

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An Op stun locked you -.- You do know they only have ONE single stun -.- And if he opened with Shoot First you should have poped Jet Boost... If an OP can complete his opener on a) a merc b) a sniper c) a PT d) a sorc e) a sin f) a jugg... Well they are bad.

 

He could have lol Hold the lined away, e-net him, and laugh at his rage being kited to death.

And as you said, with that one hard stun, operative now can so stun lock to death, because a gear player dies in like 4 seconds right:P

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Cordorian

Cordorian

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Stealth was, is, and always will be strong as far as lightly defended nodes go. Most PUG teams just need to learn to always leave 2 at a node when confirmed stealth in the match.

 

wouldnt make much of a difference for a competent stealther against 2 bad players possibly in pve gear, not to say you are definitely one person down in the main fight. So the stealther has achieved his goal before even trying anything.

 

Btw I posted it yesterday, and it is in accord with what a lot of concealment operatives and shadows and assassins think. Mercs/Mandos and Madness Sorcs are 2 of the hardest classes to play against if the player behind the keyboard is knowing what he is doing. Against a good madness sorc, hardly any operative will ever win a 1v1 or get the node and that was even so pre buffs. And it is pretty similar for deceptions sins. The thing is like, at least from my experience most people that node guard on these classes, dont play them to full potential and then come on these forum to complain how overpowered stealth is, never even considering that they might have failed big time.

Granted good mercs and sorcs tend to go the main fight anway, but once you encounter on at an off node, you know what i mean.

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