The SWTOR Forums

[TUXs]

Debate is necessary sometimes in order to get a better working idea, whereas a vote up/down doesn't really do more than have a lot of people who might not truly understand the difficulties of implementing a given idea into a complicated piece of software like SWtOR. I don't mind the idea of an up/down vote, but not as an end all be all of idea generation. I prefer the debate, the back and forth as players work out ideas and try to make them better.

 

Absolutely!!! I don't mean to replace the ability to debate, just add the option to vote. As I said, right now, if I think your idea sucks, I need to post and state it as such, which then opens me up to attack from everyone else for disliking your idea...with the addition of just an up/down vote, not only is it less confrontational, but I bet we'd have higher participation.

[Warrgames]

I was just thinking the same thing, good idea! The advantage of a vote system would be less "I don't like it...here's why...", just up or down. When you have to post to express like/dislike, it can seem quite negative.

 

The problem with a vote system is small part of the player base comes to the forums. Even fewer people go to the suggestion forums.

 

The trick is ignore the trolls and listen to the feedback. Sometimes people have a great idea but has flaws. Listening to feedback good and bad someone can fine tune their idea.

 

OP problem is no one likes his idea and points out all the flaws and he just disagrees anything that doesn't go along with his idea.

[hadoken]

Then there shouldn't be anyone making any suggestions to vote on.

 

If a suggestion is only valid if it's something a player has inside knowledge of whether it is technically feasible with this client or not, then I guess so. Nobody should be making any, since none of us are working on it.

[ZionHalcyon]

Yeah, sadly most threads started aren't looking for debate or ideas. Only people who support the OP would be left posting...

 

Just to the point, so what? As long as the people blocking aren't bragging about it, then no TOS would be broken.

 

I think we've all become so verbally combative in nature that it doesn't sit well with us that we can't tee off on who we want, when we want. Yet I think what people don't want might just be the thing they need...

[ZionHalcyon]

Debate is necessary sometimes in order to get a better working idea, whereas a vote up/down doesn't really do more than have a lot of people who might not truly understand the difficulties of implementing a given idea into a complicated piece of software like SWtOR. I don't mind the idea of an up/down vote, but not as an end all be all of idea generation. I prefer the debate, the back and forth as players work out ideas and try to make them better.

 

The problem with a voting system is most people would vote ideas down for reasons other than it being a bad idea.

[ikinai]

The problem with a voting system is most people would vote ideas down for reasons other than it being a bad idea.

 

There is that too, sadly.

[Reno_Tarshil]

People just need to learn to be more open to constructive criticism with their ideas and learn that not everyone is going to like their idea.

[Daewan]

I was just thinking the same thing, good idea! The advantage of a vote system would be less "I don't like it...here's why...", just up or down. When you have to post to express like/dislike, it can seem quite negative.

 

I don't understand what is wrong or negative about explaining your position on something. It is true, some people do get personal about dislikes or likes, but isn't it the overall purpose of sharing your ideas to find out why people agree or disagree? If it isn't, you're not sharing ideas, you're grandstanding. You're preaching on a soapbox. That's not what a forum is for. A forum is for gathering knowledge and exchanging ideas. It's for discussion, not dictation.

 

If your idea does nothing but generate three pages of people disagreeing with you, you have to consider that maybe your idea needs work. If every post you make gets fifteen pages of people saying 'thank you,' you know you're doing something right. If your post generates two hundred pages of people sharing similar experiences, you are doing something right. And if every time you post, people show up to tell you to go away, you have left a mark on the community that no one really wants to repeat.

 

How would you even have a community if everyone was just limited to + and - responses? Where would we be without those moments where people say "I can't believe I'm agreeing with Person A, but - " Isn't that what a forum is supposed to be about?

[hadoken]

I don't understand what is wrong or negative about explaining your position on something. It is true, some people do get personal about dislikes or likes, but isn't it the overall purpose of sharing your ideas to find out why people agree or disagree? If it isn't, you're not sharing ideas, you're grandstanding. You're preaching on a soapbox. That's not what a forum is for. A forum is for gathering knowledge and exchanging ideas. It's for discussion, not dictation.

 

If your idea does nothing but generate three pages of people disagreeing with you, you have to consider that maybe your idea needs work. If every post you make gets fifteen pages of people saying 'thank you,' you know you're doing something right. If your post generates two hundred pages of people sharing similar experiences, you are doing something right. And if every time you post, people show up to tell you to go away, you have left a mark on the community that no one really wants to repeat.

 

How would you even have a community if everyone was just limited to + and - responses? Where would we be without those moments where people say "I can't believe I'm agreeing with Person A, but - " Isn't that what a forum is supposed to be about?

 

How are 15 pages of "thank you" any different from 15 upvotes? The reality is a vote system just simplifies what already happens - people respond positively or negatively, just without using as many words. For a suggestion forum, all that should matter is the suggestion itself, not how it's torn apart by other players who's opinions are as valuable (or not) as the person making the suggestion. It's up to BioWare to take the suggestion and run with it or not. It really isn't up to us what they do with it, but at least voting gives you the feeling of some impact without turning every thread into a flamewar.

[Fevee]

If you make a suggestion in the suggestion box, you should be prepared to have your suggestion argued, if it's not foolproof.

 

Whining when others disagree with you does not help your case.

This coming from the guy who reports ANY posts who disagrees with him. Yeah...I will get back to you on that. Also discussion is supposed to have both sides so basically what you are saying is that there should be only agreement?

My experience is that only people with mostly poor ideas cannot stand criticism, while those people who have good ideas are often more open minded and can see the merit in having good ideas even improved more by said criticism.

If you make a suggestion (aimed at OP, not you hadoken), be prepared to answer questions about it...mainly WHY it would be a valuable use of Developer time/resources, which are finite and valuable.

 

 

 

I don't report posts just for disagreeing with me. I'm reporting posts which are clearly just trying to pick a fight or be overall rude.

 

I understand there'll be disagreement, I want some sensible disagreement so that the idea can be sharpened out to its best. But if one person posts an actual disagreement, and 15 others post what is essentially a "point and laugh" post, can you possibly understand the initial poster's frustration?

 

People just need to learn to be more open to constructive criticism with their ideas and learn that not everyone is going to like their idea.

 

Yes, but that person needs to receive constructive criticism in the first place, in order to be open about it.

 

"I don't like your idea because ... will not work ... and also this doesn't ... and this just doesn't add up." Take this as the example of constructive criticism. Instead, if one only receives posts like "Lol, you're so stupid ... no one likes your idea ... Bad idea bad idea bad idea bad idea..."

 

One post is much more sensible than the other, are you going to tell me I'm not open to criticism if I'm getting more of the latter post?

[ZionHalcyon]

I don't report posts just for disagreeing with me. I'm reporting posts which are clearly just trying to pick a fight or be overall rude.

 

I understand there'll be disagreement, I want some sensible disagreement so that the idea can be sharpened out to its best. But if one person posts an actual disagreement, and 15 others post what is essentially a "point and laugh" post, can you possibly understand the initial poster's frustration?

 

 

 

Yes, but that person needs to receive constructive criticism in the first place, in order to be open about it.

 

"I don't like your idea because ... will not work ... and also this doesn't ... and this just doesn't add up." Take this as the example of constructive criticism. Instead, if one only receives posts like "Lol, you're so stupid ... no one likes your idea ... Bad idea bad idea bad idea bad idea..."

 

One post is much more sensible than the other, are you going to tell me I'm not open to criticism if I'm getting more of the latter post?

 

Very well put.

[BuriDogshin]

I understand there'll be disagreement, I want some sensible disagreement so that the idea can be sharpened out to its best. But if one person posts an actual disagreement, and 15 others post what is essentially a "point and laugh" post, can you possibly understand the initial poster's frustration?

 

Frustration? Then the initial poster has missed the point of posting.

 

Why do people post replies instead of PMing then? Because of the Audience: all the people who read posts, including people at BW, of whom the people who respond are a minority. That's who a post should try to convince, not the trolls and not the virtual 3-year olds ("v3s") that don't engage their brain before hitting the reply button.

 

If a poster's ideas are good and their arguments are good, then why would they worry about the trolls and v3s? It all comes down to what they think of the Audience. If they have confidence in their post and respect the Audience, the trolls and v3s can be ignored, even to the point of putting them on your ignore list: the Audience will figure out who's full of shenanigans.

 

But if the poster doesn't have confidence in the post, why was it posted?

And if the poster doesn't respect the Audience, why are they bothering to try to convince them of anything?

 

Edit: I t occurs to me that the forums are somewhat like when two lawyers argue in court: they are not trying to convince each other, they are trying to convince the judge and/or jury, that is, the audience that isn't arguing. Generally, that audience doesn't respond will to ad hominem attacks and shenanigans.

 

In the forums, the only one that can make me look like a fool is me. That's the key thing to realize, I think.

Edited August 8, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[Sangrar]

I think it would be a great idea to allow pictures at least in the suggestion box so that way someone can put up pictures of what they are talking about to help people visualize what the OP is saying

[LordArtemis]

People just need to learn to be more open to constructive criticism with their ideas and learn that not everyone is going to like their idea.

 

This is one of the things I learned early in my career. We had released an expansion for a game early on in my time with this company I work for now, and the feedback was pretty brutal. I mean REALLY brutal. Fans can be very critical, even insulting at times. It really got to me.

 

But my boss pulled me aside and told me something very important. He said....

 

"Rage is only a platform, not the message. The anger disguises an opportunity to provide exactly what the players want when they want it, and that is a gift, not a curse."

 

Since then I have taken criticism much better IMO, and also dish it out in a more constructive manner, without fear of "ruffling feathers", so to speak. I say what I think. And I do not apologize for it.

 

I welcome discourse. Discourse is the single most useful resource for me to create suggestions that work for everyone and have a chance to be considered by the higher powers that be....the more input the better.

[LordArtemis]

Yes, but that person needs to receive constructive criticism in the first place, in order to be open about it.

 

"I don't like your idea because ... will not work ... and also this doesn't ... and this just doesn't add up." Take this as the example of constructive criticism. Instead, if one only receives posts like "Lol, you're so stupid ... no one likes your idea ... Bad idea bad idea bad idea bad idea..."

 

One post is much more sensible than the other, are you going to tell me I'm not open to criticism if I'm getting more of the latter post?

 

Honestly Fevee, you attacked almost everyone that did not fall into lock step with your idea, even if they didn't attack you initially...I being one of those people.

 

So your behavior was just as poor as those that attacked you. There is NO excuse for being combative with those that simply post their opinions, or offer constructive criticism. It is a demonstration of a lack of self respect IMO.

[Lotharofxev]

Honestly Fevee, you attacked almost everyone that did not fall into lock step with your idea, even if they didn't attack you initially...I being one of those people.

 

So your behavior was just as poor as those that attacked you. There is NO excuse for being combative with those that simply post their opinions, or offer constructive criticism. It is a demonstration of a lack of self respect IMO.

 

GIVE HIM FREE REVAN'S! NOW!

 

Lollers.

[ZionHalcyon]

Honestly Fevee, you attacked almost everyone that did not fall into lock step with your idea, even if they didn't attack you initially...I being one of those people.

 

So your behavior was just as poor as those that attacked you. There is NO excuse for being combative with those that simply post their opinions, or offer constructive criticism. It is a demonstration of a lack of self respect IMO.

 

Even if the poster who suggested it was off his rocker, I still like the idea of a block button.

[theUndead]

Even if the poster who suggested it was off his rocker, I still like the idea of a block button.

 

But isn't that censorship? A block button ostensibly means preventing someone from posting in a thread you created

I mean I understand sometimes trolls cause frustration but again you don't actually have a right to block anyone from posting their opinion regardless of how it's written.

[MaximusRex]

1) I really wish we could embed pictures in forums other than the fanart section. Instead of proving links people have to bother to follow, the picture can be there, plain to see. At least in bug reports and the suggestion box, I would like the ability to embed pictures.

 

If not, I just might start making suggestions in the fanart section; since I'll be able to provide visual examples of what I'm talking about.

 

Inline images cause the forums to load slower, that is why we are limited to links in most of the forums. There are tons of free sites you can use to upload and link too. If you start linking art that isn't your own int he fanart section, and spamming it with suggestions, which are off topic, you probably can expect to have issues with the moderators, and I wouldn't recommend it.

 

2) I wish ignore was more functional here. Instead of just covering their posts, of which doesn't do any good, I'd like it if the ignored individual was disallowed to make any more posts in your threads. Otherwise what's the point?

 

The point is the forums are for discussion, not unstoppable soap-boxing. Forum users are welcome to comment on any post as long as they follow the forums rules.

 

What's up with the people here who only seem to exist to attack everyone else? I'm talking mainly the suggestion box, there are people who don't bother to make any suggestions, themselves. Instead, they're all over everyone else's suggestions, tearing it down like termites in wood. Is Bioware paying these people to ward off anyone with a suggestion that would require work of them? If these nay-sayers have such a good grasp on what does and doesn't need to happen in the game, let's see them suggest an idea of their own.

 

Lots of tin foil hat type stuff here. BioWare can ignore crappy suggestions for free, they hardly need to pay people to oppose them. Again, the forums are for discussion, and posters are free to say they don't like a suggestion, or try to explain why a suggestion isn't practical, or wouldn't work with the game.

 

If you want to make suggestions directly to BioWare with no other commentary, mail a letter.

[AnAnonymousGuy]

-snip-

 

It's called peer review. If it's good enough for the scientific community, then I'm going to be bold and say it should be good enough for the SWTOR Suggestion Box.

[hadoken]

But isn't that censorship? A block button ostensibly means preventing someone from posting in a thread you created

I mean I understand sometimes trolls cause frustration but again you don't actually have a right to block anyone from posting their opinion regardless of how it's written.

 

Lets not bring censorship and rights into this, this is a moderated forum run by a game company. They could easily add such a thing if they felt it benefited the customers.

[theUndead]

Lets not bring censorship and rights into this, this is a moderated forum run by a game company. They could easily add such a thing if they felt it benefited the customers.

 

I was just saying that a block button to me, takes this forum from as you said a moderated plsce of discussion to out right silenceing of opposing ideas. So yes you are correct they would add it if it was necessary but I sincerely hope they don't.