Guild Ship Frameworks and PVP Flagging

[TUXs]

Who has the time or desire to do that? I just don't get it. Why would they roll that out on a PvE server?[/QUOte]

Do you seriously think a PvE server should be void of any PvP? LOL! PvE servers are not PvP'less servers.

[MandFlurry]

Then why are you playing this game? PvP was almost an afterthought here, and the game is built around PvE. You should really make better choices...

 

At least half the damm Servers are Full Pvp, and Lots of ppl on PvE server also like to Pvp as well. A Lot of us hate just doing dumb WZs over and over so many times ppl get sick of them.

 

Yeah, ur probably thinking, 'Why don't you go to another server". Then i'd tell you why don't ppl like you go to a Pvp server. a Lot of ppl that like Pvp don't want to get attacked 24/7 on their own Factioned Planets, But want more than just stupid Warzones.

Edited August 6, 2014 by MandFlurry

[Daekarus]

Do you seriously think a PvE server should be void of any PvP? LOL! PvE servers are not PvP'less servers.

 

Certainly not! There are people that enjoy warzones on PvE servers... no idea why, but they exist. However, since PvE servers exist expressly for the purpose of having no PvP while questing, adding PvP while questing just.... well, makes no sense.

 

Lol at everyone who believes PvP should be a bigger part of a game specifically designed to be a solo PvE adventure with the option to coop. Keep on thinking that...

[Drockter]

I do.

 

Maybe to promote WPvP in an event? Throw a none out to another play style?

 

My experiences with Open PvP (these are my experiences, they do not, nor do I claim that they are everyone's experience). Gree and Rackghoul events for reference

 

99% of the time its being ganked by severely ovematched teams ... I generally run either solo or 1 other, rarely(outside of heroics do we run in a full team)...However, teams of 4 (experienced in PvP), or multiple teams of 4 from the same guilds, roving around (not playing the mission... but hunting people to kill). This is not a stellar advertisement for PvP... it does not encourage me, in the slightest, to look for more PvP experiences.

 

In regards to the Rackghoul event... my absolute favorite, are the folks who wait for you to get into combat (pug team of 4), see health begin to wain (or CD's to hit, or Force/Energy low, heat high).. then attack... yeah good times... Same groups (there were multiple traveling in what I can only refer to as a Wolf Pack). Then would run off looking for someone else... not even to fight the mob/beast... their sole intent was to disrupt our event (evidenced by the oh so heartwarming /spit) as they stood over me then running away.

 

To be fair, i have been involved in a some fair fights, and those were somewhat enjoyable... however, those are more the exception rather than the rule.

 

Personally, I thought that PvP was about honerable fights between equally matched (relatively) opponents... but the reality is something quite different. While many will claim they are "looking for a good fight", most secretly prefer the gank.

[Joesixxpack]

Certainly not! There are people that enjoy warzones on PvE servers... no idea why, but they exist. However, since PvE servers exist expressly for the purpose of having no PvP while questing, adding PvP while questing just.... well, makes no sense.

 

Lol at everyone who believes PvP should be a bigger part of a game specifically designed to be a solo PvE adventure with the option to coop. Keep on thinking that...

 

 

I'd much rather PVP than PVE; but if some boss op or whatever is part of this guild-based content then I'm going to be doing PVE too. Stop taking your special snowflake title so seriously.

[Pagy]

Certainly not! There are people that enjoy warzones on PvE servers... no idea why, but they exist. However, since PvE servers exist expressly for the purpose of having no PvP while questing, adding PvP while questing just.... well, makes no sense.

 

Lol at everyone who believes PvP should be a bigger part of a game specifically designed to be a solo PvE adventure with the option to coop. Keep on thinking that...

you're steering off into troll-ville when you start dictating the intentions of developers 4 years ago...

 

...anyway... you dont seem to have much knowledge about tanks, pvp...which is fine. you dont like that part of the game the same why i wont participate in strongholds. i just wont like it.

 

the planet commanders are one aspect of this new system. you dont need to participate in them the same way pvpers dont have many objectives in planet conquests at all. are pvpers being "forced" to craft?

 

in truth, without a pvp element for these planet commanders, you'd have powerful guilds camping spawns. this at least means there is competition for the boss, which is sort of the whole point of the leaderboard. you are aware the zone is open pvp, so entering it is your consent to be killed.

 

i just find it sad that a new feature like this has one single objective that would require pvp gear amongst dozens that are pure pve and you're here crying about it.

[Pagy]

My experiences with Open PvP (these are my experiences, they do not, nor do I claim that they are everyone's experience). Gree and Rackghoul events for reference

 

99% of the time its being ganked by severely ovematched teams ... I generally run either solo or 1 other, rarely(outside of heroics do we run in a full team)...However, teams of 4 (experienced in PvP), or multiple teams of 4 from the same guilds, roving around (not playing the mission... but hunting people to kill). This is not a stellar advertisement for PvP... it does not encourage me, in the slightest, to look for more PvP experiences.

 

In regards to the Rackghoul event... my absolute favorite, are the folks who wait for you to get into combat (pug team of 4), see health begin to wain (or CD's to hit, or Force/Energy low, heat high).. then attack... yeah good times... Same groups (there were multiple traveling in what I can only refer to as a Wolf Pack). Then would run off looking for someone else... not even to fight the mob/beast... their sole intent was to disrupt our event (evidenced by the oh so heartwarming /spit) as they stood over me then running away.

 

To be fair, i have been involved in a some fair fights, and those were somewhat enjoyable... however, those are more the exception rather than the rule.

 

Personally, I thought that PvP was about honerable fights between equally matched (relatively) opponents... but the reality is something quite different. While many will claim they are "looking for a good fight", most secretly prefer the gank.

you sound like a sore loser.

 

a pvp server ruleset is simple. you are flagged for combat with other players. that's it. there is no "ganking" there is no "wait for me to be ready". this idea of "honorable fights" is a pipedream.

 

you give consent for pvp when you leave your base. that's it, pure and simple. there is no ganking. by being there, i have your permission to attack you. all players are open season.

 

if this isn't something that interests you then a pvp server isn't for you. that's fine too. but dont go somewhere out of your own free will then turn around and complain about the choice you made. it's unbecoming.

[Daekarus]

you sound like a sore loser.

 

a pvp server ruleset is simple. you are flagged for combat with other players. that's it. there is no "ganking" there is no "wait for me to be ready". this idea of "honorable fights" is a pipedream.

 

you give consent for pvp when you leave your base. that's it, pure and simple. there is no ganking. by being there, i have your permission to attack you. all players are open season.

 

if this isn't something that interests you then a pvp server isn't for you. that's fine too. but dont go somewhere out of your own free will then turn around and complain about the choice you made. it's unbecoming.

 

So if we dislike how PvP is conducted, the cheap tactics employed, and roll on a PvE server specifically to avoid those things, then we're not entitled to our opinions when they throw PvP stuff into the most anticipated guild activity ever? You amaze me.

[Infernixx]

The Commanders are plainly meant to be a path for PVPers to take for their Frameworks/Ship Upgrading. PVPers aren't exactly swimming in credits, after all.

 

The smartest and most determined Guilds are those that will do both PVP and PVE, resulting in them having plenty of PVP gear to kill the Commanders and whatever opposite faction players that come at them, and still have plenty of money/time/crafters for the PVE side of things.

 

Guilds that do both PVE and PVP will have the easiest time of upgrading their ships and this is by design, I imagine.

[Drockter]

you sound like a sore loser.

 

a pvp server ruleset is simple. you are flagged for combat with other players. that's it. there is no "ganking" there is no "wait for me to be ready". this idea of "honorable fights" is a pipedream.

 

you give consent for pvp when you leave your base. that's it, pure and simple. there is no ganking. by being there, i have your permission to attack you. all players are open season.

 

if this isn't something that interests you then a pvp server isn't for you. that's fine too. but dont go somewhere out of your own free will then turn around and complain about the choice you made. it's unbecoming.

 

All fine and dandy, I am not on a PvP server... if I were, I'd understand. Talking about the PvP involved with the Conquest actions.

[TUXs]

So if we dislike how PvP is conducted, the cheap tactics employed, and roll on a PvE server specifically to avoid those things, then we're not entitled to our opinions when they throw PvP stuff into the most anticipated guild activity ever? You amaze me.

You can craft the components that the scary PvP area boss drops. You don't have to do any PvP on your PvE server. However, if you want to take the easy route, you'll be faced with possible PvP.

[Andrellma]

Who has the time or desire to do that? I just don't get it. Why would they roll that out on a PvE server?

 

I'm not a huge fan of PVP. In fact, I've been playing since Beta and my character that I've done the most PVP on is something like Valor 36, but that said, I don't personally have a problem with this. From the looks of things, Conquests has things that will appeal to players who like all types of gameplay, and is meant to be undertaken by guilds with number of active players, and as Jack and Musco pointed out yesterday, smaller guilds can even team up for things like the Commanders, and everyone will receive the same credit for it.

 

I see absolutely no problem with the commanders being in enemy territory, and flagging for PVP. Sure, I rolled on a PVE server for a reason, and that reason is because I don't want to run around flagged for PVP all the time, but that said, I still understand that if I enter an open PVP zone, it's going to happen, and I'm okay with that. I have the choice to participate, or not in that aspect of the conquest system.

 

If I choose not to participate, there are other ways I can contribute to the Guild Conquest, and I can help craft or gather mats for the encryptions/frameworks using other playstyles.

[ikinai]

You can craft the components that the scary PvP area boss drops. You don't have to do any PvP on your PvE server. However, if you want to take the easy route, you'll be faced with possible PvP.

 

Well, to be fair, some people actually do have physical and emotional problems when dealing with PvP in a video game. It's an involuntary reaction due to the stress that they perceive. I don't PvP because I am in no way an asset to any PvP crew, I'm a hindrance and a drain on the team. Talk about needing to be carried, put me in PvP and I'm the one every one complains about.

[Brewski]

I love the fact that they can roll out new functionality that actually gives you multiple avenues to do everything, and yet people will still intentionally misconstrue and misrepresent the facts so they can complain about it.

 

If you want to PvP, you can. We have both warzone contributions to guild conquests, as well as open world PvP options to both help achieve conquests and help expand your guild ship.

 

If you do not want to PvP, you can do Flashpoints and other PvE content to help achieve conquests, and never PvP at all. You can do the weekly conquest content to both help achieve conquests and to expanse your guild ship.

 

If all that fails, you don't like doing PvP or PvE content, you can just craft your expansions, or buy them off the GTN from crafters.

 

How is any of this a problem? No one is being forced to do any content they don't want to.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Brewski

[TUXs]

Well, to be fair, some people actually do have physical and emotional problems when dealing with PvP in a video game. It's an involuntary reaction due to the stress that they perceive. I don't PvP because I am in no way an asset to any PvP crew, I'm a hindrance and a drain on the team. Talk about needing to be carried, put me in PvP and I'm the one every one complains about.

And that's the beauty of this system...there's an alternative way to get the components. Unlocking the ship only has ONE option - 50 mil. 50 mil stresses me out because I know what I have, I know how ungodly long I've played and I know how very little I've ever bought...

 

Also, that's silly...EVERY person who participates in OWPvP is valuable. Assuming you have 30+k health, even if you don't fire once, you're 30k less damage I may need to take. Even YOU would be a valuable contributor.

[Shoraan]

Perhaps they evaluated the PVP participation during the Gree events where the H4 dailies were easier in the PVP area and saw that most players preferred to stay in the PVE area nonetheless. Therefore they decided to increase the benefits of flagging for PVP.

 

I'm pretty sure the team tried to answer questions like:

- How can we encourage more OWPVP?

- How can we encourage the use of low-grade crafting mats?

- How can we get more use out of the old level 50 ops?

- How can we give crafters more to do except for Augment Kits and barrels/hilts?

- How do we make guilds more meaningful?

 

I'm actually pretty amazed with the answers to these questions so far. To come up with an expansion that touches almost all areas of the game (except for GSF perhaps, which is weird, because, you know, guild SHIPS, hello?) is quite fascinating.

 

I still don't understand why expertise isn't deactivated outside of WZs, but I guess they have their reasons. And although I'm a bit ashamed to admit it, but I've also been part of gank squads during the Gree event. It's neither challenging nor do I think it's fair, but it was funny - at least for a few minutes, before I decided I had better things to do. And since it's really easy to farm WZ comms for PVP gear (not like PVE where you actually have to be successful), even PVP noobs like me can do it.

 

On an unrelated topic, do Ranked WZs give better comm rewards than unranked?

[ikinai]

And that's the beauty of this system...there's an alternative way to get the components. Unlocking the ship only has ONE option - 50 mil. 50 mil stresses me out because I know what I have, I know how ungodly long I've played and I know how very little I've ever bought...

 

Also, that's silly...EVERY person who participates in OWPvP is valuable. Assuming you have 30+k health, even if you don't fire once, you're 30k less damage I may need to take. Even YOU would be a valuable contributor.

 

I die so fast in PvP it's not even funny. I'm like those stupid bumps in the road that supposedly slows you down but only makes people speed up so they can try to get airborn. Sad thing is I understand tactics better than a lot of PvPers who yell at me when I do try PvP. I'm just not so good at the actual PvP part

[Jnaathra]

Alien monsters need killing? Empire need smacking down? Corrupt officials selling you into slavery? Sith ruining your drapes with their glowbats? Havoc Squad has you covered!

 

Unless the Empire has a real player behind it! Then we are screwed! Havoc Squad out!

[LanceCorporalDan]

My experiences with Open PvP (these are my experiences, they do not, nor do I claim that they are everyone's experience). Gree and Rackghoul events for reference

 

99% of the time its being ganked by severely ovematched teams ... I generally run either solo or 1 other, rarely(outside of heroics do we run in a full team)...However, teams of 4 (experienced in PvP), or multiple teams of 4 from the same guilds, roving around (not playing the mission... but hunting people to kill). This is not a stellar advertisement for PvP... it does not encourage me, in the slightest, to look for more PvP experiences.

 

In regards to the Rackghoul event... my absolute favorite, are the folks who wait for you to get into combat (pug team of 4), see health begin to wain (or CD's to hit, or Force/Energy low, heat high).. then attack... yeah good times... Same groups (there were multiple traveling in what I can only refer to as a Wolf Pack). Then would run off looking for someone else... not even to fight the mob/beast... their sole intent was to disrupt our event (evidenced by the oh so heartwarming /spit) as they stood over me then running away.

 

To be fair, i have been involved in a some fair fights, and those were somewhat enjoyable... however, those are more the exception rather than the rule.

 

Personally, I thought that PvP was about honerable fights between equally matched (relatively) opponents... but the reality is something quite different. While many will claim they are "looking for a good fight", most secretly prefer the gank.

 

To be expected on most PvE servers I'd assume. My experiences with WPvP are similar but more expansive:

 

• Gankers try to gank lowbies on some planet because they aren't skilled enough for fair fights.
  
• One side makes ops group to fight them off.
  
• Other side does the same as retaliation.
  
• Large battles ensue with varying pushes, retreats, counterattacks, and good fun in an ever changing battle.
  

 

On top of that you have server PvP events organized for the purpose of large scale tactical battles involving multiple guilds (tons of fun!).

 

I admit, these "events" are filled with gankers, some are hunting achievements, others are looking to start large fights, some are just plain bored. The varying degree of PvPers you can find in the PvE population... some are great people, some are asses, others haven't a clue, you have elitists, you have the average player who enjoys it all etc. I think BW is going in the right direction to offer something to the PvP crowd in conquests... I mean it is a war! And hopefully we can see some more objectives with PvP avenues to complete them without infringing on others.

[Infernixx]

In my opinion, PVP is inherently toxic.

 

The Warzone/Arena system is based entirely around the requirement that half its participants are required to fail in order for the system to work, and this is inherently toxic. People do not like to fail. It makes them angry, it makes them frustrated, it makes them not play the game. The fact that people who win, either by luck or skill, are rewarded with better gear that allows them to win easier is insane. This is akin to rewarding the Super Bowl winners a matching set of brass knuckles that they can use on the opposing team in the following season without penalty.

 

The constant stress of failure is further aggravated by same-faction PVP, either in zones like Ilum or in Warzones/PVP where the winners commonly and regularly mock, scorn and taunt those that they beat.

 

Consider now that as far as I can see, there's no real incentive to the Open World PVP thing with the Commanders for defenders except the satisfaction of denying other players a chance to further an aspect of PVE. Just spite and contempt and the joy of making other players angry and frustrated.

 

This is unhealthy.

 

PVPers should be grateful that they're getting paths of advancement that plays to the style of gaming that they prefer, make no mistake about it. But, at the same time, in my eyes, PVP is a detriment to the game. It adds nothing and creates a toxic attitude in its participants.

 

I do hope that the Dev decide to add Frameworks to Ops as potential drops from Bosses. If they think that's too much, then limit the number of Frameworks that a guild can get in a week to pace Guilds appropriately.

[Nickious]

In my opinion, PVP is inherently toxic.

 

The Warzone/Arena system is based entirely around the requirement that half its participants are required to fail in order for the system to work, and this is inherently toxic. People do not like to fail. It makes them angry, it makes them frustrated, it makes them not play the game. The fact that people who win, either by luck or skill, are rewarded with better gear that allows them to win easier is insane. This is akin to rewarding the Super Bowl winners a matching set of brass knuckles that they can use on the opposing team in the following season without penalty.

 

The constant stress of failure is further aggravated by same-faction PVP, either in zones like Ilum or in Warzones/PVP where the winners commonly and regularly mock, scorn and taunt those that they beat.

 

Consider now that as far as I can see, there's no real incentive to the Open World PVP thing with the Commanders for defenders except the satisfaction of denying other players a chance to further an aspect of PVE. Just spite and contempt and the joy of making other players angry and frustrated.

 

This is unhealthy.

 

PVPers should be grateful that they're getting paths of advancement that plays to the style of gaming that they prefer, make no mistake about it. But, at the same time, in my eyes, PVP is a detriment to the game. It adds nothing and creates a toxic attitude in its participants.

 

Well this should be good.

 

*grab popcorn.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Nickious

[TUXs]

In my opinion, PVP is inherently toxic.

Then don't do it. Grind your mats and continue being the cheery person you always are

[Joesixxpack]

Well this should good.

 

*grab popcorn.

 

Poor soul, maybe this game just isn't right for him.

[K_osss]

In my opinion, PVP is inherently toxic.

 

The Warzone/Arena system is based entirely around the requirement that half its participants are required to fail in order for the system to work, and this is inherently toxic. People do not like to fail. It makes them angry, it makes them frustrated, it makes them not play the game. The fact that people who win, either by luck or skill, are rewarded with better gear that allows them to win easier is insane. This is akin to rewarding the Super Bowl winners a matching set of brass knuckles that they can use on the opposing team in the following season without penalty.

 

The constant stress of failure is further aggravated by same-faction PVP, either in zones like Ilum or in Warzones/PVP where the winners commonly and regularly mock, scorn and taunt those that they beat.

 

Consider now that as far as I can see, there's no real incentive to the Open World PVP thing with the Commanders for defenders except the satisfaction of denying other players a chance to further an aspect of PVE. Just spite and contempt and the joy of making other players angry and frustrated.

 

This is unhealthy.

 

PVPers should be grateful that they're getting paths of advancement that plays to the style of gaming that they prefer, make no mistake about it. But, at the same time, in my eyes, PVP is a detriment to the game. It adds nothing and creates a toxic attitude in its participants.

 

I do hope that the Dev decide to add Frameworks to Ops as potential drops from Bosses. If they think that's too much, then limit the number of Frameworks that a guild can get in a week to pace Guilds appropriately.

 

Huh, I thought that the team winning the superbowl did benefit. They don't get brass knuckles (that i'm aware of) but money, they might get more money over the next few years, from a business standpoint. Then theirs the rings, the prestige, the extra attendance, the desire of players to play of a winning team..... Oh, I'd say they get a reward. So competitive sports is inherently toxic too? One team wins and the other loses, and lots of people seem perfectly happy playing sports.

 

As a player who PvP's and PvE's I'm pleased with the new system - now i just need to get more money saved up!

 

I do agree that running your team down or the other team down is not healthy. But that is not due to the competitive nature of it. It's due to the lack of character and class of the player. Sportsmanship....

Edited August 6, 2014 by K_osss

[Infernixx]

Huh, I thought that the team winning the superbowl did benefit. They don't get brass knuckles (that i'm aware of) but money, they might get more money over the next few years, from a business standpoint. Then theirs the rings, the prestige, the extra attendance, the desire of players to play of a winning team..... Oh, I'd say they get a reward. So competitive sports is inherently toxic too? One team wins and the other loses, and lots of people seem perfectly happy playing sports.

 

As a player who PvP's and PvE's I'm pleased with the new system - now i just need to get more money saved up!

 

Extra money, rings, prestige, extra fan attention, none of that translates into a direct advantage on the field, as opposed to superior PVP gear that winners get upon winning in instanced PVP.