ikinai Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Learn how business works. My 15 bucks a month isn't a guaranteed income for EA/BW and it is in their best interests as a profit seeking company to keep me entertained. The moment I am not, my money disappears from their balance sheet and ends up on some other entertainments profit/loss statement. A smart business listens to their customers. A smart business understands their market. For an entertainment company, they understand that they have to entertain. When they stop doing this, they fail. Actually, it's in their best interest to keep the majority entertained, not you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A smart business listens to their customers. A smart business understands their market. For an entertainment company, they understand that they have to entertain. When they stop doing this, they fail. Can you point where I said otherwise? What I was saying is, just because you yourself don't like something and want something doesn't mean the company is going to listen to you as an individual. They're going to listen to the collective, whatever that is. Your individual $15 contribution is meaningless. Especially now with the cartel market proceeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sometimes but, he generally isn't looking so I have to throw things at him. He listens to me about as much as I listen to him, knowing someone for nearly 25 years does that I guess. Ah yes... in my case it depends what is thrown. If it is a dish towel, it is all fun and games. If it is a shoe it is serious business. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ah yes... in my case it depends what is thrown. If it is a dish towel, it is all fun and games. If it is a shoe it is serious business. Lol! Hehe, sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A smart business listens to their customers. A smart business learns to ignore customers who are more trouble than they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ah, but the difference here seems to be that you believe that you are paying the developers to come up with fun stuff for you to do. That's not the way it works. The developers come up with fun stuff, and THEN you pay to be allowed to partake of said stuff. It's kinda like how a movie works. You don't pay the movie maker to make a movie you'll like. You pay the movie maker to watch his movie and hopefully, you'll like it. And if you know beforehand that you won't like it, you won't pay to watch it. Just like if you are not having fun in this game any more, you stop paying to play it. There is no difference between your two statements. I pay the developers to come up with fun stuff I will pay to do. It is an endless circle. It has to start with the developers, however, or the process will never, ever begin. They did that by creating the game. I was entertained, I stayed a subscriber. They used my money to come up with new stuff. I was entertained, I stayed a subscriber. This will continue until they cease to entertain me. You movie analogy doesn't work. It isn't the same thing. I pay to watch a movie. My enjoyment has no bearing on the company who produced it. MMO's are products that require constant work. The closest a movie analogy would get would be a series of movies. The first one being good would entice me to the second one, but if it blows chunks I probably won't see any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A smart business learns to ignore customers who are more trouble than they are worth. A smart business stops listening to the "yes men" who will agree to anything in some misguided attempt at defending them. Especially when they do nothing but attack instead of defending their point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Actually, it's in their best interest to keep the majority entertained, not you personally. I am a small sample of the majority. The majority pay to play this game in order to be entertained. Tell me that isn't why you pay to play and I'll call you a liar to your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ***? What box? What sandbox? If you are going to claim to be able to magically make running the same dailies over and over again a "quasi-sandbox" you'd better be able to back that up with some particulars, because even people who don't care about the argument are going to want to know how to do that. What I find "gross and disgusting" is people so far up the backside of EA/BW that they are championing people doing boring crap over and over in order to unlock new content that is priced at an unreasonable level to any sane and right thinking being. If you find a complete lack of challenge and endless repetition fun, good on you, but understand that most people don't. Otherwise, you would stop seeing any innovation in MMO's and new content would be completely unnecessary. The forums wouldn't be filled with posts from people wanting new content. Most important, people would stop caring about the game. I have more than enough creativity, and no amount of creativity will make repetition fun. I didn't make that claim to champion anything. I agree, dailies are boring. I do take offense when someone insinuates or alludes to the fact that there has to be something wrong with someone who does the dailies without complaint. You're basically being obtuse and looking down on people for having an opinion that is different than your own. Guess what, you're farts stink just as bad as theirs. However, my friends and I are quite experienced at taking boring content and turning it into something fun in ways that nobody intended. In WoW I had a friend and we would gather and organize other players and have foot races from one city to another. We would charge a fee to participate and get the entire guild and other guilds that were friendly and trusted us with their money and charge 10 to 100 gold to participate. At the end, the winner would get a portion of the prize money collected and the officiators who helped keep the event honest would get a small stipend for their roles. We could make bets between friends to see who could solo content the fastest, and this could apply to dungeons or daily quests or even entire quest hubs. Sometimes the wagers were just for bragging rights, and sometimes when they were between friends who trusted each other to be honest they would involve gold or items. These are just the tip of the iceberg for things my friends and I have done in MMOs to help make things more fun when repetitive content gets boring. If you can't come up with simple ideas like this, I think you need to reevaluate your personal opinions about being creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I am a small sample of the majority. The majority pay to play this game in order to be entertained. Tell me that isn't why you pay to play and I'll call you a liar to your face. You represent yourself and nothing more on these forums. Of course everyone plays to be entertained but each person's definition of 'entertainment' can and will be wildly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I am a small sample of the majority. The majority pay to play this game in order to be entertained. Tell me that isn't why you pay to play and I'll call you a liar to your face. but I am entertained, so I don't have a problem. I would surmise that the majority are entertained, otherwise they wouldn't be subscribers. If you aren't entertained that is a problem you need to correct, since it seems more people are entertained, hence they are subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkheyr Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I honestly am very doubtful that the majority of players is entertained doing dailies for 63 hours. Which is what this argument was about, if you recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I didn't make that claim to champion anything. I agree, dailies are boring. I do take offense when someone insinuates or alludes to the fact that there has to be something wrong with someone who does the dailies without complaint. You're basically being obtuse and looking down on people for having an opinion that is different than your own. Guess what, you're farts stink just as bad as theirs. However, my friends and I are quite experienced at taking boring content and turning it into something fun in ways that nobody intended. In WoW I had a friend and we would gather and organize other players and have foot races from one city to another. We would charge a fee to participate and get the entire guild and other guilds that were friendly and trusted us with their money and charge 10 to 100 gold to participate. At the end, the winner would get a portion of the prize money collected and the officiators who helped keep the event honest would get a small stipend for their roles. We could make bets between friends to see who could solo content the fastest, and this could apply to dungeons or daily quests or even entire quest hubs. Sometimes the wagers were just for bragging rights, and sometimes when they were between friends who trusted each other to be honest they would involve gold or items. These are just the tip of the iceberg for things my friends and I have done in MMOs to help make things more fun when repetitive content gets boring. If you can't come up with simple ideas like this, I think you need to reevaluate your personal opinions about being creative. So what part of that WoW analogy has anything to do with being "encouraged" to grind dailies for credits in SWTOR? This isn't WoW and your analogy does nothing to put credits into a guild bank. I've been involved in a number of creative guild related activities: Scavenger hunts, World PvP events, guild runs of various sorts...none of which will make doing the same dailies over and over again in order to pay an unreasonable fee for unlocking new content fun. Quite frankly, there is something wrong with someone who does dailies endlessly to unlock content priced at an unreasonable level and who doesn't find anything wrong with it. If they just sit there and take it without voicing an opinion, they are part of the problem. They are, through their inactivity on the subject or their activity on the wrong side of the subject (my opinion, sure), encouraging EA/BW to continue. When EA/BW put the datacubes into the CC packs, there was a huge uproar at the CM having content in it. Never mind that the content wasn't really all that much, it was content that they were charging CC for. Had people not voiced their displeasure, we'd be paying for special CM only Operations and Flashpoints by now as sure as day follows night. This is the same thing. EA/BW should not be encouraged to add content gated by credits considering that the earning of credits through grinding is an un-fun activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A smart business learns to ignore customers who are more trouble than they are worth. There's more truth in this than you know. Disgruntled customers are a fact of life and learning how to tune out the perpetually-disappointed and chronically-angry customers is just part of the game. Not that long ago, I think it was Verizon that issued a list of banned customers that were to be refused service regardless as to how much money they had on hand, simply because of their never-ending problems they had with those customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I honestly am very doubtful that the majority of players is entertained doing dailies for 63 hours. Which is what this argument was about, if you recall. Smart players aren't making their credits via dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There's more truth in this than you know. Disgruntled customers are a fact of life and learning how to tune out the perpetually-disappointed and chronically-angry customers is just part of the game. Not that long ago, I think it was Verizon that issued a list of banned customers that were to be refused service regardless as to how much money they had on hand, simply because of their never-ending problems they had with those customers. There is, of course, a difference between the eternally disgruntled and the currently disgruntled. If someone constantly attacks or defends any action a company takes, they should be ignored. But if you ignore all disgruntled customers, soon you will have no customers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Flagships should be coming onto PTS today, so maybe we can argue about its value after we see what it does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkheyr Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Smart players aren't making their credits via dailies. The majority however will. Don't get me wrong, I make my own money off the GTN more than anything else, but I do realize that someone, somewhere had to run dailies to get those credits. Most other activities only roughly pay for themselves once you put things like Stims and gear upgrades into perspective, or simply do not generate near as many credits as dailies do. And once everyone wants to save up credits, the GTN will not work as well. Especially if everyone was to try selling on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There is, of course, a difference between the eternally disgruntled and the currently disgruntled. If someone constantly attacks or defends any action a company takes, they should be ignored. But if you ignore all disgruntled customers, soon you will have no customers at all. You presume that all customers will be disgruntled at some point. You're also assuming that companies should ignore all disgruntled customers. Neither of which are correct. You just have to learn to tune out those that are never satisfied and never happy and constantly whining and complaining and ranting endlessly. That's a tiny handful of loud voices that should rightly be ignored since satisfied customers rarely speak up to say "I have no problems, keep up the good work" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I've played since beta and I don't have half that amount between my toons - almost 3 years!!! Standing on the fleet isn't profitable? Edited July 31, 2014 by Kunda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There is, of course, a difference between the eternally disgruntled and the currently disgruntled. If someone constantly attacks or defends any action a company takes, they should be ignored. But if you ignore all disgruntled customers, soon you will have no customers at all. Except for the customers who actually enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The majority however will. Don't get me wrong, I make my own money off the GTN more than anything else, but I do realize that someone, somewhere had to run dailies to get those credits. Most other activities only roughly pay for themselves once you put things like Stims and gear upgrades into perspective, or simply do not generate near as many credits as dailies do. And once everyone wants to save up credits, the GTN will not work as well. Especially if everyone was to try selling on it. I'm seeing that already, by the way. My sales are way down from where they were only a couple of weeks ago, and I'm seeing a lot more competition on the GTN. I'm still making my credits, but I'm tempted to go do dailies once or twice a week. I imagine things will stay about the same over the next few months until the new expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I honestly am very doubtful that the majority of players is entertained doing dailies for 63 hours. Which is what this argument was about, if you recall. Why do you think your opinion of what other people's arguments "was about" are at all relevant? Heck, you aren't even the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) So what part of that WoW analogy has anything to do with being "encouraged" to grind dailies for credits in SWTOR? This isn't WoW and your analogy does nothing to put credits into a guild bank. I've been involved in a number of creative guild related activities: Scavenger hunts, World PvP events, guild runs of various sorts...none of which will make doing the same dailies over and over again in order to pay an unreasonable fee for unlocking new content fun. Quite frankly, there is something wrong with someone who does dailies endlessly to unlock content priced at an unreasonable level and who doesn't find anything wrong with it. If they just sit there and take it without voicing an opinion, they are part of the problem. They are, through their inactivity on the subject or their activity on the wrong side of the subject (my opinion, sure), encouraging EA/BW to continue. When EA/BW put the datacubes into the CC packs, there was a huge uproar at the CM having content in it. Never mind that the content wasn't really all that much, it was content that they were charging CC for. Had people not voiced their displeasure, we'd be paying for special CM only Operations and Flashpoints by now as sure as day follows night. This is the same thing. EA/BW should not be encouraged to add content gated by credits considering that the earning of credits through grinding is an un-fun activity. I stand corrected then. You're not being obtuse. You're just a negative Nancy that has nothing better to do than piss in your own bowl of Wheaties. Have fun wallowing in your own pity. Edited July 31, 2014 by Orizuru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There is, of course, a difference between the eternally disgruntled and the currently disgruntled. If someone constantly attacks or defends any action a company takes, they should be ignored. Well , I am still annoyed at BW over the over-nerfing of OS/FFB, so that doesn't include me. But I love Legacy Storage. It's worth the price, to me. Guild ships, well we'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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