Good Intention should equal Rewards

[TUXs]

Are you trying to imply that you can't have fun playing the game without these rewards?

 

This is the hitching point I keep having with this. Everyone seems to act like they can't enjoy the game if they don't have the rewards, but then balk at the thought of having to earn them. How do you even compromise with that train of thought?

No. I'm trying to say that I'm gated from incoming content if I don't agree to the exorbitant costs associated with buying a guild ship.

 

Guild ships should have been based on guild activities, not a credit sink just to remove credits from players. Things like completing in-game goals such as 5 Ops, 5 FPs, 5 GSF matches, 5 PvP matches...things like that.

[BuriDogshin]

Based on your personalty, I never, ever want to play with you.

The "I know it all attitude" and the "I'm a better player than you" attitude gets old really fast.

No, I'm just a better forum player than you, that's what annoys you. As a player, I have merely cleared 8m HM DF/DP, and the weekly boss on 16m HM DF/DP, but only when running with people better than myself. Unlike a lot of players I know, I am not, as yet, NiM DF/DP capable.

 

Not sure I want to run with you either, given your poor track record on Xeno. My toons are listed below, feel free to put them on ignore, so you don't wind up in the next GF HM55 FP my wife and I drop a heal and tank into.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Edited July 29, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[Infernixx]

No. I'm trying to say that I'm gated from incoming content if I don't agree to the exorbitant costs associated with buying a guild ship.

 

Guild ships should have been based on guild activities, not a credit sink just to remove credits from players. Things like completing in-game goals such as 5 Ops, 5 FPs, 5 GSF matches, 5 PvP matches...things like that.

 

Strangely enough, doing all the things you listed lead to 'credits' which are then used to to buy the Guild Ship.

 

It's like 'magic.'

[TX_Angel]

Why would anyone buy a 156 barrel off the GTN? Now for a alt I bought 180 barrels (well had them made for matts), no way I am going to waste any credits on something so outdated. I will not even waste comms on that stuff.

 

Because they show up at lvl 55 with 140 barrels...

 

If you're trying to do ops, go spend 15k credits and buy a 156 barrel, the damage difference is noticeable.

 

You probably aren't the type of player who shows up at 55 with lvl 50 gear, but many do. For a DPS, the barrel/hilt makes all the difference... it is the first piece of gear that needs to get upgraded...

[TX_Angel]

If you see my crappy geared alt running around an event, don't even think I'm broke. I'm not, I'm just to lazy to gear them. Even that toon has a least a million on them.

 

If you're too lazy to gear your lvl 55 alt in better than 140 gear, then I'm too lazy to carry you through an ops on that toon.

 

Fair enough both ways I suppose...

[TX_Angel]

Not true. I took my 55 Scoundrel into HM Xeno in heal spec with 140 barrels/armor in his MH and OH. Zero fatalities. And I don't usually do Op/Sc healing, but it's pretty easy to be good-but-not-great at it.

 

So please stop making stuff up and posting it, it's ridiculous. Especially in all caps.

 

That matters less for the healer, the other gear can make up for that...

 

8 man HM Xeno, the 4 DPS need to be geared well, you just can't bring down the cores in 30 sec otherwise. 4 DPS in 140 barrels/hilts don't put out enough damage over 30 sec, the math isn't there.

[Anaesha]

No. I'm trying to say that I'm gated from incoming content if I don't agree to the exorbitant costs associated with buying a guild ship.

 

Guild ships should have been based on guild activities, not a credit sink just to remove credits from players. Things like completing in-game goals such as 5 Ops, 5 FPs, 5 GSF matches, 5 PvP matches...things like that.

 

My guild was actually hoping for a set up where we had to do certain things and gain parts to build the ship ourselves instead of having to pay credits to get it (which is boring and unimaginative). Everyone in my guild seemed to like the idea of working together to BUILD the ship ourselves but they didn't seem all that keen on having to use credits for it.

[Infernixx]

My guild was actually hoping for a set up where we had to do certain things and gain parts to build the ship ourselves instead of having to pay credits to get it (which is boring and unimaginative). Everyone in my guild seemed to like the idea of working together to BUILD the ship ourselves but they didn't seem all that keen on having to use credits for it.

 

So, you're all keen on the idea of working together to 'build' the ship, but you're totally bummed out on the idea of working together to 'buy' the ship.

[Anaesha]

So, you're all keen on the idea of working together to 'build' the ship, but you're totally bummed out on the idea of working together to 'buy' the ship.

 

Like I said simply throwing credits at the guildship is boring and unimaginative. The method we wanted allowed the guild to work together in a manner that didn't exclude our less fortunate members who couldn't contribute funds and would allow us to build stronger bonds with each other through completing what ever missions were used to earn the components to build/upgrade the ship.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[mikebevo]

If you're too lazy to gear your lvl 55 alt in better than 140 gear, then I'm too lazy to carry you through an ops on that toon.

I think you need to read more. Nobody ever carries me anywhere in group runs except in my guild when they know the gear I have. In pugs I am better geared than 99% of the players around. Three toons I play are all full 180. My main is optimize 180 with some Dread Master. Even the alts in crappy gear, well it may not be definded as crappy to you. It is 180 and 168,

The difference is, unless it is a guild run, I will not take a character I play into a instance with a pug unless I need no gear from that instance and only looking for matts, comms or vanity equipment (which I don't care about). If you see my crappy geared alt running around an event, don't even think I'm broke. I'm not, I'm just to lazy to gear them. Even that toon has a least a million on them.

Edited July 29, 2014 by mikebevo

[Infernixx]

Like I said simply throwing credits at the guildship is boring and unimaginative. The method we wanted allowed the guild to work together in a manner that didn't exclude our less fortunate members who couldn't contribute funds and would allow us to build stronger bonds with each other through completing what ever missions were used to earn the components to build the ship.

 

Why not just 'do stuff' as a guild group and use the money gained therein as a means to get your Guild Ship?

 

Grind HM OPs, sell the MMGs and EEEs. You 'can' get together as a raid group and do dailies, too. Do TFB SM and HM if you can.

 

Do things as a 'guild' and your Guild Ship will be there before you know it.

 

We've been farming HM stuff since March and salting away millions for the Guild Ship because we 'want' it. Our own guild is likely going to get smoked in Conquest stuff since there's about 5 mega-guilds on my server that will undoubtedly dominate Conquest for a while, but we really really really don't care. We're just there to have fun together as a group.

[TUXs]

My guild was actually hoping for a set up where we had to do certain things and gain parts to build the ship ourselves instead of having to pay credits to get it (which is boring and unimaginative). Everyone in my guild seemed to like the idea of working together to BUILD the ship ourselves but they didn't seem all that keen on having to use credits for it.

Agreed. I just think it was a great opportunity to encourage players to deviate from their comfort zones and expand their play styles a bit.

 

AlienEyeTx is a guy who absolutely disliked PvP...until Arenas were introduced and he tried them. I may be mistaken, but I believe that's about all he does these days. I think a guild ship would have been an ideal time to introduce goals for the guild to meet that would have encouraged smaller guilds to try things they've been reluctant to do (GSF? PvP? Ops?)...activities that promoted a healthier server, not just a credit dump.

[Kantaso]

Good ideas and good read. Edited July 29, 2014 by Kantaso

[Anaesha]

Why not just 'do stuff' as a guild group and use the money gained therein as a means to get your Guild Ship?

 

Grind HM OPs, sell the MMGs and EEEs. You 'can' get together as a raid group and do dailies, too. Do TFB SM and HM if you can.

 

Do things as a 'guild' and your Guild Ship will be there before you know it.

 

We've been farming HM stuff since March and salting away millions for the Guild Ship because we 'want' it. Our own guild is likely going to get smoked in Conquest stuff since there's about 5 mega-guilds on my server that will undoubtedly dominate Conquest for a while, but we really really really don't care. We're just there to have fun together as a group.

 

Again those are only things the 50 to 55s can do it excludes the members who don't have a lot of creds to spare or who do not yet have the right gear to run those.

 

It also excludes our Lower lvl members who have not reached 50 or 55 yet on a character.

 

Maybe to you letting your low lvl members feel excluded from earning the guild ship is ok but to others it isn't.

[BuriDogshin]

That matters less for the healer, the other gear can make up for that...

Backpedalling? You said it never happens, well, I proved you wrong.

8 man HM Xeno, ...

I believe tt is usually ignorant noobs and achievement seekers that pug 8M HM Xeno, and the latter usually only once. 16m is easier and gives better rewards. You may spend more time filling the group than fighting, but you will wipe less.

Edited July 29, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[mikebevo]

Maybe to you letting your low lvl members feel excluded from earning the guild ship is ok but to others it isn't.

It isn't like after the 50 million it is over, it cost more to add more to it, so they will not be excluded since they can help later with either the ship or the stronghold later. Personally on someone first toon leveling up, I don't want them giving credits to the guild. If they are planning on participating in guild endgame activities when 55, then I want them using guild funds and resouses to help them level and enjoy the experience. Not rushing them, but I want them to enjoy the leveling experience and not worried about fluff like a guild ship.

[mikebevo]

That matters less for the healer, the other gear can make up for that...

 

Let me guess, you don't heal. More mainstat is always helpful and more endurance is great with all the goldfever dps running around.

[Anaesha]

It isn't like after the 50 million it is over, it cost more to add more to it, so they will not be excluded since they can help later with either the ship or the stronghold later. Personally on someone first toon leveling up, I don't want them giving credits to the guild. If they are planning on participating in guild endgame activities when 55, then I want them using guild funds and resouses to help them level and enjoy the experience. Not rushing them, but I want them to enjoy the leveling experience and not worried about fluff like a guild ship.

 

It still comes out to simply throwing credits at the ship.

 

Quite Frankly for a Company like Bioware that made a name for themselves with Fantastic interactive stories I'm very disappointed that they resorted to a simple Credit Sink for buying and upgrading guild ships when the possibilities for story driven content were endless.

[BuriDogshin]

Let me guess, you don't heal. More mainstat is always helpful and more endurance is great with all the goldfever dps running around.

And my Sorcs' heals saw a nice increase when I got a 180 hilt and a 186 offhand.

[MSchuyler]

My guild was actually hoping for a set up where we had to do certain things and gain parts to build the ship ourselves instead of having to pay credits to get it (which is boring and unimaginative). Everyone in my guild seemed to like the idea of working together to BUILD the ship ourselves but they didn't seem all that keen on having to use credits for it.

 

So you wanted BW to set up some sort of manufacturing plant? Or you wanted them to design quests to, say, earn an airlock you could somehow store while accumulating other pieces until you had a sufficient number to piece together a ship, based on a mat, perhaps?

 

Or you could get together as a guild and design the most proficient way to do X ops to earn the credits to buy the ship. EITHER WAY your guild has to work together and perform tasks to accumulate parts/credits to be able to buy/build the ship. I'm kinda guessing that's the point, to encourage group activity toward a common goal.

 

So say you are a team who needs a bus to transport the team. You are wanting the team members to scrounge for parts to build the bus and you think this would be good for the team. Why not just hold some bake sales (quests) and buy the bus? Seems a lot simpler to me than scrounging for pieces because Lord knows you'd be complaining about the choice of pieces from day one. It would also be MUCH more complicated to make happen, wouldn't it? But you want new content NOW, right?

 

The fact is, enterprising guilds will find a way to buy a ship within a few weeks at most. Other guilds will use their time complaining about their inability to get their act together sufficiently well to get a ship. I suspect there will be some re-alignment of people in guilds as a result of this, including maybe some initiation fees.

 

You want to join the XYZ Guild, that;s great. It will cost you half a million credits, the price of a couple of crates on the GTN. We get 100 people and we have our ship debt free. Join us and enjoy our ship, or complain that you canlt get one because they are "too expensive." Your choice.

[Orizuru]

The point of view you're missing is that we pay to play, not pay to work.

 

We paid our money, now entertain us...

 

That is the viewpoint you are missing...

 

People who want the game to "feel" challenging, without actually "being" challenging. That is the art form in making a game to appeal to mass millions.

 

After all, does anyone dispute that Call of Duty is easy to pickup and play? They shouldn't, hundreds of millions of people have played it, tens of millions still do. It is easy to pickup and be entertained, it feels like it should be hard, but it really isn't.

 

The number of people who actually DO want it hard, are very limited in number. Want proof? The numbers do not lie, compare the number of people playing WoW (which is not hard) to the number of people playing EVE Online (which is hard).

 

Or compare Call of Duty to games like ARMA II.

 

I didn't say one word about any of the points you are trying to argue here.

 

I simply asked if someone felt like they could not enjoy the game without these rewards.

[Anaesha]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

Yeah We're REALLY going to feel a sense of Accomplishment and comradery because we threw 150 million worth of fake money at the GFS compared to working on missions that are story based and specifically designed around guilds working together as one to gain the components to build and upgrade the ship.

 

I truly Give up I feel like I'm beating my head against a 6' thick titanium wall!! You all want a crappy *** credit sink be my guest.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anaesha

[TUXs]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

Yeah We're REALLY going to feel a sense of Accomplishment and comradery because we threw 150 million worth of fake money at the GFS compared to working on missions that are story based and specifically designed around guilds working together as one to gain the components to build and upgrade the ship.

 

I truly Give up I feel like I'm beating my head against a 6' thick titanium wall!! You all want a crappy *** credit sink be my guest.

Don't give up - you're not alone.

[Orizuru]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

Yeah We're REALLY going to feel a sense of Accomplishment and comradery because we threw 150 million worth of fake money at the GFS compared to working on missions that are story based and specifically designed around guilds working together as one to gain the components to build and upgrade the ship.

 

I truly Give up I feel like I'm beating my head against a 6' thick titanium wall!! You all want a crappy *** credit sink be my guest.

 

I don't think that is a fair statement to make. I haven't seen anyone arguing that the Guildships or Strongholds are preferable to new content. What I have seen is a lot of people who want new content, some of which are excited about some new features coming before new content, while others are upset that the content isn't coming first.

 

Just because some players have millions of credits to participate in a credit sink doesn't mean they don't want new content as well. It just means they like the features the credit sinks are providing.

[Rafaman]

It truly amazes me!! This has got to be the ONLY game in the entire world where people would RATHER just throw fake money at an in game feature rather then have story driven content that truly gives you and your guild something to work for a TRUE SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

Yeah We're REALLY going to feel a sense of Accomplishment and comradery because we threw 150 million worth of fake money at the GFS compared to working on missions that are story based and specifically designed around guilds working together as one to gain the components to build and upgrade the ship.

 

I truly Give up I feel like I'm beating my head against a 6' thick titanium wall!! You all want a crappy *** credit sink be my guest.

 

Nah... don't do that. Your input is important. I agree that a nice bit of content tying the guild cap ship together would have been nice. But I think the content in this case will be what you can do once you have the ship and are cruising through planetary conquests. The guild ship is the entry point. Credit sink, it might be, but it is also an opportunity for a guild to have a goal to work toward.

 

From what I'm seeing, the guilds that have planned ahead will be in great shape and the new content, planetary conquests, will be available to those guildies at launch. I for one don't know what that content will be like yet. I don't like to spoil things, but from the little I've seen, it looks like a great way to provide end game PvE as a guild without having to churn through Ops. Another avenue for those that aren't necessarily into raids or have had enough of raids.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Rafaman