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What you BoP people should be asking for is....


Reno_Tarshil

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SWG was cursed with the worst *********** devs in the history of bad devs. :rolleyes:

 

The game had a perfectly healthy population until they decided to put the game out of its misery. RIP PRE-CU

 

What is in essence swg 2.0 is currently in alpha.

 

 

Straw man

Worst management...not Devs. Don't blame the guys working on the game for the stupidity of those who managed it.

 

Nothing inherently wrong with people wanting to play a main character and feeding unneeded stuff to alts.

Agreed!!! I prefer ONE character.

Edited by TUXs
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Your sorc dps set may not be as optimal on your assassin, or healing spec sorc.

That's why I have separate BtL Willpower gear for Healing and DPS on my Sorcs and Sages. I do pretty well in both roles with a total of 13 pieces of Willpower gear - 5 are used to both Heal and DPS, and then there are 4 heal pieces and 4 DPS pieces. I will probably need a few more pieces with the appropriate set bonuses for my 'Sin/Shadow DPS, but the I expect 5 to 7 pieces of the Sorc gear to work just fine.

 

So, currently, I have 5 pieces of BtL Willpower gear that can be used very effectively by all 5 of my Willpower based toons, across 4 Advanced Classes and at least six specs and maybe as many as 10 (since each class has two DPS specs). Obviously, I have separate Willpower tanking gear.

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How would you get the drops? Not by needing on drops that your current toon, in the BoL gear they are wearing, doesn't actually need, I hope. Or are you happy with just comms gear?

 

While I have said elsewhere that I don't care if people need for Alts... personally I am entirely satisfied with comms gear. :p The only set bonus pieces I have were obtained with the character I ran with.

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SWG was cursed with the worst *********** devs in the history of bad devs. :rolleyes:

Guys you know that many devs and especially producers and lead designers for SWTOR came from SGW right?

 

The game had a perfectly healthy population until they decided to put the game out of its misery. RIP PRE-CU

Really? If it's such a Real/Great MMO then how come it got shut down and the only way anyone can play it is by playing on a Private Server?

There can only be one...

 

They had to end the licence deal with SOE to allow SWTOR to take off.

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I've read and reread this thread, and it seems like something I'd have strong opinions on.

 

I even know what they would be, if I cared about such things anymore here, but that care has long since been a dead thing.

 

I don't expect anything particularly good to come of legacy. They're too deeply committed to archaic grind standards to ever let it be convenient to reward the player more than just an isolated character.

 

Gear is the only carrot they've invested anything more than peanuts into so far. They've got nothing else going on for people to really feel to be progression measuring.

 

GW2 unifies almost everything to the account, with specific gear often being bind on equip (though the appearance unlocks for the whole account), but most everything else?

 

Currency, all tokens, all unlocked dyes, all fun utility items and toys, all account bound anymore.

 

It hasn't discouraged me from paying less or playing less. Quite the opposite. I've gone on dye collecting sprees since those became account bound, trying to unlock them all. When they were unlocked only on the character that accessed a dye color, I only owned the ones I knew I'd want on a given character.

 

Before, if I opened 50 dyes and didn't want any of them on a character, I'd have to stick them in the bank and get them on another one that could use them.

 

I wound up selling a lot of them, not investing a lot in random unidentified dyes and was significantly less overtly joyful about it all.

 

I lugged the dye system as it was. Even the old way GW2 had it was lightyears ahead of what TOR does, and they impressively improved it just because it's make people happier.

 

I can now run around doing things on the character I feel like playing, and the rewards aggregate on my account.

 

I like doing world events on my necro, for example. It's a great class on there for providing great support using staff powers, then switch to scepter/dagger to attack big aoe dots on the enemies.

 

I like playing my guardian in dungeons, where her staff and mace/shield combo, along with her heavy heal build, makes her a debuff-nuking, heal - popping teammate-rezzing buttkicker.

 

I play my mesmer exclusively in pvp. Mesmer is great in pvp on the, and feels to me like it was designed better for pvp than if was for pve.

 

I get to do what I like with the character I please, and is never a wasted effort. If I geta wild hair and want to take my necro dungeoning?

 

No prob. I'm not stuck with a few wasted tokens on my necro that only she can use, but I'll never feel like accruing thousands of on her. All of my characters have tons of great gear from dungeon tokens because I spent months playing them on my guardian, then spent the tokens on my necro or mesmer as I saw fit.

 

They're smarter, I think, than Bioware. I don't spend less time doing things on GW2 at all, nor I think do many spends anything but MORE time and money because is wide open.

 

You're never wasting your time, or stuck playing your warrior because it's the only one with gear for this or for that. You're not staying at the bottom of the hill every single time you make or play an alt.

 

For me, it's encouraged me to something I've never cared about in these games before - completionism. Building my account is likes building my empire on there.

 

That exotic sword that dropped for my guardian in an event? Doesn't look like her style at all. Stick it in the bank for the warrior I'm leveling? Why yes, I can.

 

Crafted two legendary great swords on the Guardian. Kept one for her, sent the other to my mesmer. Crafted my necro's legendary dagger on my mesmer.

 

Some like to insist that such things would surely destroy a game and lead to nobody doing anything except passing the same minimum effort gear around between all their characters in a comedic avoidance of anything resembling effort.

 

Seems to me that folks are happy to put in effort when they don't feel like they're wasting their time, and when we're not made to feel like we should be punching a timecard and getting paid for our factory labor.

 

And that's just it. Here on TOR, and in many mmos, we're treated like factory workers. We have a labor quota to meet? Why do we pay to work so hard?

 

I'm all for effort being a good thing, but they try so hard to male us think and feel like we need to progress on their treadmills like we need to go to work.

 

I get enough of that feeling with my job. I can only speak for myself there, but they come up with lists of chores drawn out in their tedium and indirect difficulty by requiring us to find 7-15 other people to do or chores with in order to do them at all.

 

Some seem to like that. I can only surmise that those that like that are either addicted to whatever hamster wheels that can find to run on or crave the sense of accomplishment. .. though none of it seems like much of any sort of accomplishment to me.

 

I guess when you have the real thing, the imitation achievement sensation tastes kinda like imitation crab to one accustomed to fresh lobster.

 

Maybe I'm spoiled by having a career that challenges me, rewards me in ways I covet for rising to those challenges and of which I'm intensely proud. I just cannot empathize with those feelings to do with these games.

 

I can tell a good many feel like that over their doings in game, and it certainly explains the ferocity most change is met with for the emotional investments some have with just about anything one cos point at, but I just don't get why.

 

I'd like to think that it wouldn't strictly be because their lives generally suck, they're underemplyed/unemployed, hate their jobs, aren't engaged in life or anything life that, but what else could it really be?

 

It seems unhealthy to me. That degree of fixation is often unhealthy radioactive to ones career, and when I see people ready to go to war over a game?

 

I'm reminded more of crazed sports fanatics than of reasonable people that should be consulted in anything, ever.

 

In short...it's just a game. You might be the nutter for trying to have it be some surrogate for everything you're apparently not leaving your house to go get in real life, not those that don't share your desperation-soaked desire for them to add more weight to the bench press bar, so you can try to feel like you're worth that much more.

 

Except it's not even as useful as benchpressing.

 

I dunno. I'm clearly much too far removed from the psychological places of most, and I'm not nearly forum psychologist enough to believe I'll figure out why her and now.

 

I do play GW2 more because of how their account wide system works though, not less. I feel an actual sense of interest in collecting everything just to see if I can.

 

Someday, my account on there will be a glorious testament to how many thousands of hours I spent putzing. My wife shall look on in skeptical unconcern when I grace her with the tale of my magnificent connections.

 

She will thank me for collecting crap in a game rather than filing the house with more books and antique timepieces, then probably ask me to take the garbage out.

 

My friends, upon hearing of this glorious achievement, will probably go 'Dude, that game is so carebear. On EVE, we recently mutated the entire player base into the most concentrated form of pure evil in the known universe. Upside, we've proven evil to bea substance. Downside, I need your soul. Now. '

 

When I regale my colleagues, they'll look on uncomprehendingly, Mumble something about their score in Candy Crush Saga and go cuddle their iPhone and iPad, shaken on a primitive level they won't be able to consciously apprehend by games that don't suck.

 

And TOR, life so many of its fellows, will be wallowing in mediocrity when it comes to having one glimmer of a clue how to get players wanting to play their games rather than feeling like they're skipping work if they don't log in and 'be productive' all the time.

Edited by Uruare
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I am just going to disagree here. That game was so "awesome" that people played it by waking up in the morning, turning on their macros and bots and leaving for work...

Not until the Holocron madness, it totally ruined the game.

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I've read and reread this thread, and it seems like something I'd have strong opinions on.

 

I even know what they would be, if I cared about such things anymore here, but that care has long since been a dead thing.

 

I don't expect anything particularly good to come of legacy. They're too deeply committed to archaic grind standards to ever let it be convenient to reward the player more than just an isolated character.

 

Gear is the only carrot they've invested anything more than peanuts into so far. They've got nothing else going on for people to really feel to be progression measuring.

 

GW2 unifies almost everything to the account, with specific gear often being bind on equip (though the appearance unlocks for the whole account), but most everything else?

 

Currency, all tokens, all unlocked dyes, all fun utility items and toys, all account bound anymore.

 

It hasn't discouraged me from paying less or playing less. Quite the opposite. I've gone on dye collecting sprees since those became account bound, trying to unlock them all. When they were unlocked only on the character that accessed a dye color, I only owned the ones I knew I'd want on a given character.

 

Before, if I opened 50 dyes and didn't want any of them on a character, I'd have to stick them in the bank and get them on another one that could use them.

 

I wound up selling a lot of them, not investing a lot in random unidentified dyes and was significantly less overtly joyful about it all.

 

I lugged the dye system as it was. Even the old way GW2 had it was lightyears ahead of what TOR does, and they impressively improved it just because it's make people happier.

 

I can now run around doing things on the character I feel like playing, and the rewards aggregate on my account.

 

I like doing world events on my necro, for example. It's a great class on there for providing great support using staff powers, then switch to scepter/dagger to attack big aoe dots on the enemies.

 

I like playing my guardian in dungeons, where her staff and mace/shield combo, along with her heavy heal build, makes her a debuff-nuking, heal - popping teammate-rezzing buttkicker.

 

I play my mesmer exclusively in pvp. Mesmer is great in pvp on the, and feels to me like it was designed better for pvp than if was for pve.

 

I get to do what I like with the character I please, and is never a wasted effort. If I geta wild hair and want to take my necro dungeoning?

 

No prob. I'm not stuck with a few wasted tokens on my necro that only she can use, but I'll never feel like accruing thousands of on her. All of my characters have tons of great gear from dungeon tokens because I spent months playing them on my guardian, then spent the tokens on my necro or mesmer as I saw fit.

 

They're smarter, I think, than Bioware. I don't spend less time doing things on GW2 at all, nor I think do many spends anything but MORE time and money because is wide open.

 

You're never wasting your time, or stuck playing your warrior because it's the only one with gear for this or for that. You're not staying at the bottom of the hill every single time you make or play an alt.

 

For me, it's encouraged me to something I've never cared about in these games before - completionism. Building my account is likes building my empire on there.

 

That exotic sword that dropped for my guardian in an event? Doesn't look like her style at all. Stick it in the bank for the warrior I'm leveling? Why yes, I can.

 

Crafted two legendary great swords on the Guardian. Kept one for her, sent the other to my mesmer. Crafted my necro's legendary dagger on my mesmer.

 

Some like to insist that such things would surely destroy a game and lead to nobody doing anything except passing the same minimum effort gear around between all their characters in a comedic avoidance of anything resembling effort.

 

Seems to me that fills are happy to put in effort when they don't feel like they're wasting their time, and when we're not made to feel like we should be punching a timecard and getting paid for our factory labor.

 

And that's just it. Here on TOR, and in many mmos, we're treated like factory workers. We have a labor quota to meet? Why do we pay to work so hard?

 

I'm all for effort being a good thing, but they try so hard to male us think and feel like we need to progress on their treadmills like we need to go to work.

 

I get enough of that feeling with my job. I can only speak for myself there, but they come up with lists of chores drawn out in their tedium amnd indirect difficulty by requiring us to find 7-15 other people to do or chores with in order to do them at all.

 

Some seem to like that. I can only surmise that those that like that are either addicted to whatever hamster wheels that can find to run on or Crabbe the sense of accomplishment. .. though none of it seems like much of any sort of accomplishment to me.

 

I guess when you have the real thing, the imitation achievement sensation tastes kinda like imitation crab to one accustomed to fresh lobster.

 

Maybe I'm spoiled by having a career that challenges me, rewards me in ways I covet for rising to those challenges and of which I'm intensely proud. I just cannot empathize with those feelings to do with these games.

 

I can tell a good many feel like that over their doings in game, and it certainly explains the ferocity most change is meet with for the emotional investments some have with just about anything one cos point at, but I just don't get why.

 

I'd like to think that it wouldn't strictly be because their lives generally suck, they're underemplyed/unemployed, hate their jobs, aren't engaged in life or anything life that, but what else could it really be?

 

Or seems unhealthy to me. That degree of fixation is often unhealthy radioactive to ones career, and when I see people ready to go to war over a game?

 

I'm reminded more of crazed sports fanatics than of reasonable people that should be consulted in anything, ever.

 

In short...it's just a game. You might be the nutter for trying to have it be some surrogate for everything you're apparently not leaving your house to go get in real life, not those that don't share your desperation-soaked desire for them to add more sift to the bench press bar, so tog can try to feel like you're worth that much more.

 

Except it's not even as useful as benchpressing.

 

I dunno. I'm clearly much too far removed from the psychological places of most, and I'm not nearly forum psychologist enough to believe I'll figure out why her and now.

 

I do pay GW2 more because of how their account wide system works thigh, not less. I feel an actual sense of interest in collecting everything just to see if I can.

 

Someday, my account on there will be a glorious testament to how many thousands of hours I spent putzing. My wife shall look on in skeptical unconcern when I grace her with the tale of my magnificent connections.

 

She will thank me for collecting crap in a game rather than filing the house with more books and antique timepieces, then probably ask me to take the garbage out.

 

My friends, upon hearing of this glorious achievement, will probably go 'Dude, that game is so carebear. On EVE, we recently mutated the entire player base into the most concentrated form of pure evil in the known universe. Upside, we've proven evil to bea substance. Downside, I need your soul. Now. '

 

When I regale my colleagues, they'll look on uncomprehendingly, Mumble something about their score in Candy Crush Saga and go cuddle their iPhone and iPad, shaken on a primitive level they won't be able to consciously apprehend by games that don't suck.

 

And TOR, life so many of its fellows, will be wallowing in mediocrity when it comes to having one glimmer of a clue how to get players wanting to play their games rather than feeling like they're skipping work if they don't log in and 'be productive' all the time.

Great read.

 

Sadly you are right SWTOR is for now synonym with mediocrity.

I know it will hurt some but it's a fact nonetheless.

Mostly everything that's in game now can be found with better implementations in others MMO.

The only thing SWTOR does better is the characters V.O. story. and even some of the writing is either uninspired, repetitive or too cliche.

 

The producer should stop aiming for tunnel guided content and just fair features.

If there's not enough budget, then do it smaller but at least do it as well if not better than in others MMO.

Players will start noticing and will start coming back for sure.

 

 

Playing SWTOR is too often a pain in the but... managing mods is cumbersome, sending mails is not convenient, loading times are annoying, gold spammers a pain, moving from A to B time consuming, tending inventory feels like cleaning one's apartment. It seems the devs either don't have the budget or are clueless of how to make things like good UI or have the player focus on game play versus actually managing the game.

 

Finally Legacy isn't that much of a legacy. GW2 makes you indeed feel more like belonging to the same legacy than TOR does and well in one of these games you feel being rewarded for playing while in the other it's more like an obligation.

Edited by Deewe
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I'm with reno and wicked on this.

 

I get the uneasy feeling of an underlying "I don't want to have to re-do all the content with my third LvL 55 character" vibe to all these requests for BoP to be removed.

 

That argument doesn't hold water. First off, you'd have to run the same content for the gear regardless if you ran it on a main or an alt and second, why gear the alt if you don't intend to use him. Fact is, it allows you to gear up your alts in case you need them later without having to use them, but you still have to run the content either way so why does it matter if they run it on a main or an alt?

 

Here's an example: I play a Sorc main and have a Merc alt. I run my Sorc through the operations and then my Merc, or I run my Sorc through twice. Fact is I'm still doing it twice either way so where is the time savings or benefit except that I get to run the character I want.

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That argument doesn't hold water. First off, you'd have to run the same content for the gear regardless if you ran it on a main or an alt and second, why gear the alt if you don't intend to use him. Fact is, it allows you to gear up your alts in case you need them later without having to use them, but you still have to run the content either way so why does it matter if they run it on a main or an alt?

 

Here's an example: I play a Sorc main and have a Merc alt. I run my Sorc through the operations and then my Merc, or I run my Sorc through twice. Fact is I'm still doing it twice either way so where is the time savings or benefit except that I get to run the character I want.

 

This, times ten...

 

As it stands, you have to run HM ops to get some of the better gear, yet you have to run those ops on toons without the gear. Fine, you have to do it once, the first time, ouch...

 

The 6th time? Heck no. Instead, I don't do it at all. I only have two mains that I run ops on, the rest I may never to do, no interest in all that grind.

 

If I could take my 168 and 180 mains and run them on ops and send the gear to legacy alts? I would actually run FAR MORE ops.

 

So the posters who claim this would reduce the grind are mistaken and have it backwards. It would lead to more grind, not less.

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This, times ten...

 

As it stands, you have to run HM ops to get some of the better gear, yet you have to run those ops on toons without the gear. Fine, you have to do it once, the first time, ouch...

 

The 6th time? Heck no. Instead, I don't do it at all. I only have two mains that I run ops on, the rest I may never to do, no interest in all that grind.

 

If I could take my 168 and 180 mains and run them on ops and send the gear to legacy alts? I would actually run FAR MORE ops.

 

So the posters who claim this would reduce the grind are mistaken and have it backwards. It would lead to more grind, not less.

 

I argued this point yesterday, got several replies claiming that it was "illogical". They're living in a fantasy world. :C

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You guys might think it would lead to more runs but You would actually need to win loot for your alts and if you're competing with several others who want to do the same thing your odds are very low. Which after a while can lead to frustration and a lack of motivation to keep running the same op in hopes of trying to gear your alt.

 

If you actually brought your alt instead your odds increase more and likelyhood that you gear your alt faster increase and give you op experience in playing that character.

Edited by Reno_Tarshil
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You guys might think it would lead to more runs but You would actually need to win loot for your alts and if you're competing with several others who want to do the same thing your odds are very low. Which after a while can lead to frustration and a lack of motivation to keep running the same op in hopes of trying to gear your alt.

 

If you actually brought your alt instead your odds increase more and likelyhood that you gear your alt faster increase and give you op experience in playing that character.

 

LOL. No?

 

Tell me why the odds of me getting gear would increase if I ran an operation on an alt, versus if I ran an operation on my main? Please, I am super interested in hearing why the straight odds of a need roll would be different because I used a different character?

 

Further, if I want a piece of gear, I'm going to run until I get it. I don't particularly care if I lose a roll. That's the nature of the system. I don't hate the game because someone else got the gear.

 

Your second point is complete nonsense. OP experience is one thing, but if my character isn't Raid-Ready then he can't very well run the OP, now can he?

Edited by Kirazy
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LOL. No?

 

Tell me why the odds of me getting gear would increase if I ran an operation on an alt, versus if I ran an operation on my main? Please, I am super interested in hearing why the straight odds of a need roll would be different because I used a different character?

 

Further, if I want a piece of gear, I'm going to run until I get it. I don't particularly care if I lose a roll. That's the nature of the system. I don't hate the game because someone else got the gear.

 

If you run it on your main than your odds of winning are split between everyone else rolling for their alts.

 

If you actually brought your alt you would get a higher priority to the loot.

 

Secondly if you just gear up an alt that you barely know how to play and bring him to an ops you would be a detriment to your ops because you wouldn't be performing to your best, where as if you actually brought your alt to get gear you could also use the SM to learn the fights for that specific character as fights differ for different classes.

Edited by Reno_Tarshil
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If you run it on your main than your odds of winning are split between everyone else rolling for their alts.

 

If you actually brought your alt you would get a higher priority to the loot.

 

Wat. No? The only circumstance where that is true is a master-loot situation where the person who is the Master Looter makes that distinction. I pug, there are, typically speaking, no master looters in that situation. Ergo, I have the same chance at a piece of gear whether its my main or my alt, thank you kindly.

Edited by Kirazy
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Wat. No? The only circumstance where that is true is a master-loot situation where the person who is the Master Looter makes that distinction. I pug, there are, typically speaking, no master looters in that situation. Ergo, I have the same chance at a piece of gear whether its my main or my alt, thank you kindly.

 

Most of the pugs I run use Master Loot.

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If you run it on your main than your odds of winning are split between everyone else rolling for their alts.

 

If you actually brought your alt you would get a higher priority to the loot.

 

Secondly if you just gear up an alt that you barely know how to play and bring him to an ops you would be a detriment to your ops because you wouldn't be performing to your best, where as if you actually brought your alt to get gear you could also use the SM to learn the fights for that specific character as fights differ for different classes.

 

You strike me as someone who has zero experience in this area. That is, the area of gearing up alts and then running them. Story mode is easy, but I'd still rather gear my alt to an appreciable standard of gear, relative to what is needed to run operations, before running them.

 

It's easier. It's faster. It's less pain and frustration on my part dealing with people who hate me for not being geared, who scorn me for my health and weak damage,heals, tanking, etc.

 

It's simpler, faster, less time consuming to gear the character up, then play. Raid mechanics are not spectacularly different between Heal/Tank/DPS (I do all three, tyvm). It's fine tuning and finessing that are better accomplished when Gear is removed as a variable.

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You strike me as someone who has zero experience in this area. That is, the area of gearing up alts and then running them. Story mode is easy, but I'd still rather gear my alt to an appreciable standard of gear, relative to what is needed to run operations, before running them.

 

It's easier. It's faster. It's less pain and frustration on my part dealing with people who hate me for not being geared, who scorn me for my health and weak damage,heals, tanking, etc.

 

It's simpler, faster, less time consuming to gear the character up, then play. Raid mechanics are not spectacularly different between Heal/Tank/DPS (I do all three, tyvm). It's fine tuning and finessing that are better accomplished when Gear is removed as a variable.

 

I have 4 55s on the republic side and 4 on the imp side.

 

I have ran them all individually thru Story Mode and know how to properly play them all and they are all geared from doing those OPs without having to use any legacy gear at all.

 

It's too easy.

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If I could take my 168 and 180 mains and run them on ops and send the gear to legacy alts? I would actually run FAR MORE ops.

Help me understand the problem with this scenario, which is something you can do right this very minute in game:

You run raids on your fully geared Marauder main, but want to gear up your sorc. Every token that drops you trade in for sorc gear and shlep it over via legacy.

 

Eventually you wind up with a Sorc with 9 slots of full 180 gear, but the earpiece and two implants are probably 156 rated, and have no relics yet.

Are you telling me that this sorc is not geared well enough to run HM DF / HM DP for the remaining 5 pieces of gear?

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Also you bring up wanting to gear up your alts before running them in SM so you arn't afraid of being laughed at.

 

Easy fix.

 

Oricon Story and Basic Comms from Dailies.

 

That will get you all you need without having to run a single op.

 

Every new 55 I have hits 55 and is clothed in the righteous garments of 162 - 180. Because I already have 55's, run ops, and gear them just fine.

 

That's not why I want bound items to be transferable via Legacy Storage. As I have said elsewhere, I want that because I am not enthralled with the appearance of legacy gear, and prefer an amalgam of CM and Legacy gear for my characters appearance, which throws a wrench in my process.

 

I would also be entirely satisfied with an item that converts modable shells to Bind on Legacy. Because essentially that's all the additional utility I had hoped that Legacy Storage would offer, and it doesn't.

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