TUXs Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You mean like how they mail four sets of legacy gear every time you make a new character? BOOM! There goes that reason lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You mean like how they mail four sets of legacy gear every time you make a new character? Or how simple it is to gain your first legacy set? By your argument they already screwed up because after you gain your first full legacy set you never need to grind rep again. You mean like strongholds and guild ships? Or casino events like on Nar Shaddaa? The gear has to come from somewhere, what does it matter which toon I earned it on if I earned it? All great points. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Like this? Compared to what exactly? This is how games, especially MMOs, function. They create pretend credits that they reward you for pretend work. This isn't an economic simulator and to think it is is just silly. Economy will not be ruined. People will just charge more for the desirable stuffs. Is that a problem? No. Why? Because you'll have more credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Like this? Compared to what exactly? This is how games, especially MMOs, function. They create pretend credits that they reward you for pretend work. This isn't an economic simulator and to think it is is just silly. Like this = MMOs, and some regular RPGs. I'm not saying it should have a stock market or Treasury Department, but if there were no sinks everyone would have hundreds of millions of credits and Tulak Horde's Boots would have been selling for 1.5 billion credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Exactly. It will create inflation. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Exactly. It will create inflation. That was my point. But, it all scales evenly, so there's no harm. There's no competing economy to drive valuation comparisons. This economy is in a bubble. So, none of this really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Like this? Compared to what exactly? This is how games, especially MMOs, function. They create pretend credits that they reward you for pretend work. This isn't an economic simulator and to think it is is just silly. It actually is an economic simulator, otherwise there wouldn't be research and papers dedicated to studying MMO economics. It may not perfectly mimic the economics of real life but there is a "living" economy in the game. Studios have even hired economists in the past to help design their economies. You don't want uncontrolled inflation as it will drive prices up over time and make it impossible for new players to get into the market. If you just joined and even the most basic stuff cost 1,000,000 credits you'd find yourself hard pressed to take part in it without some kind of outside help. Edited July 17, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 No, it shouldn't be removed or changed. It works fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 But, it all scales evenly, so there's no harm. There's no competing economy to drive valuation comparisons. This economy is in a bubble. So, none of this really matters. But there are new entrants into the game and its economy all the time, if inflation goes out of control then someone creating a new character for the first time will be priced out of everything in the player economy. If those of us who have been playing for years had gone that whole time without credit sinks then the economy will reflect that, and it will be a huge obstacle for new players to become participants in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Exactly. It will create inflation. That was my point. I think you're going to need a bit more to back up that claim. You can already get around all modification money sinks by only using the armor you win through drops. Neglecting that, the whole legacy money sink can be ignored just by getting the gear on the character you wanted it on. How is Character A winning loot and ripping mods and using it in his own armor vs. Character B winning loot and ripping mods and using it in Character A's armor any different? Claiming that not charging Character B for transferring loot to Character A will cause inflation but Character A winning and using that same loot won't is quite speculative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I find these threads quite frankly ironic... Mostly because I'm fairly sure that a significant portion of the people who'd like this change, are the exact SAME kind of people who'd complain about the lack of content, on the short- to medium-run. With how ease it is to level up with Legacy gear, even if it requires a substantial credit sink depending on the revenue you obtain in-game, people are STILL NOT SATISFIED... They actually want Bioware to go the extra mile in order to further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever content they come to both retool and release. I really don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 But there are new entrants into the game and its economy all the time, if inflation goes out of control then someone creating a new character for the first time will be priced out of everything in the player economy. If those of us who have been playing for years had gone that whole time without credit sinks then the economy will reflect that, and it will be a huge obstacle for new players to become participants in. I respectfully disagree with this assessment. Even if it were a hurdle to new players, they would still earn stuffs through gameplay and would start making real credits at end game (at the latest). It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I find these threads quite frankly ironic... Mostly because I'm fairly sure that a significant portion of the people who'd like this change, are the exact SAME kind of people who'd complain about the lack of content, on the short- to medium-run. With how ease it is to level up with Legacy gear, even if it requires a substantial credit sink depending on the revenue you obtain in-game, people are STILL NOT SATISFIED... They actually want Bioware to go the extra mile in order to further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever content they come to both retool and release. I really don't get it. So if in either scenario I have to earn the same amount of gear to gear the same amount of characters, but in one scenario I can earn it from whichever character I want and in the other I can only get it on the character I want it on, does that really change the amount of content? Or is it the same amount of content but distributed differently across characters? Also, is grinding the same content repeatedly for extra characters really extra content? Or is it just the same content over and over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think you're going to need a bit more to back up that claim. You can already get around all modification money sinks by only using the armor you win through drops. Neglecting that, the whole legacy money sink can be ignored just by getting the gear on the character you wanted it on. How is Character A winning loot and ripping mods and using it in his own armor vs. Character B winning loot and ripping mods and using it in Character A's armor any different? Claiming that not charging Character B for transferring loot to Character A will cause inflation but Character A winning and using that same loot won't is quite speculative. A credit sink doesn't have to impact 100% of players to be an effective influence on the economy and keep overall inflation down. You can already get around all [repair] money sinks by only [playing PVP]. That doesn't mean repair costs aren't a functional money sink that is helping keep inflation down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I respectfully disagree with this assessment. Even if it were a hurdle to new players, they would still earn stuffs through gameplay and would start making real credits at end game (at the latest). It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. If an augment kit cost 10m credits how would you go out and earn the credits, right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If an augment kit cost 10m credits how would you go out and earn the credits, right now? Find a street corner and start flirting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) So if in either scenario I have to earn the same amount of gear to gear the same amount of characters, but in one scenario I can earn it from whichever character I want and in the other I can only get it on the character I want it on, does that really change the amount of content? Or is it the same amount of content but distributed differently across characters? * Below * Also, is grinding the same content repeatedly for extra characters really extra content? Or is it just the same content over and over again? Did I say it was? What I said is that a measure such as this one would further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever piece of content they come to both release and retool. Again, grinding the same content over and over again is a staple from every single MMO out there and truth be told, Bioware has made it easy enough(!!!) - over time - to go around that hurdle. People only have to grind for Relics, Implants and Earpieces... AND STILL THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Find a street corner and start flirting. ^This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If an augment kit cost 10m credits how would you go out and earn the credits, right now? I'd probably just craft it myself, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Unlocking BoP by making BoL effects nothing in the game. GSF Legacy gear is already given to you upon creating a new character and requires no reputation. So, you can already get an unlimited supply of BoL gear. Proponents to do this are asking for this not to make it even easier to get everything BoL, as we already can with GSF legacy gear (by the crate full!). They are asking for more choice with their BoL in allowing them to use BoP. It still stays within their legacy and cannot be sold. I use ONLY Legacy gear now to swap back and forth gear between Maurader/Sentinel, Vanguard/Powertech, Assassin/Shadow. So, if I don't get more design choices with BoP, I'll still use the BoL that is so readily available. Nothing changes if you provide BoP other than those that use BoL have more design choices. Thats it. Sorry but to imply that this would effect economy or anything is falst, as people that would most use BoP to BoL conversion already only rely on BoL. So opponents to this, ask your self why it really matters so much to give others effectively more design choice? Are you bitter about the way people use BoL already and just don't like it personally? Thats all I see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 * Below * Did I say it was? What I said is that a measure such as this one would further reduce the lifetime expectancy of whatever piece of content they come to both release and retool. Again, grinding the same content over and over again is a staple from every single MMO out there and truth be told, Bioware has made it easy enough(!!!) - over time - to go around that hurdle. People only have to grind for Relics, Implants and Earpieces... AND STILL THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. Ok, take the first paragraph and replace content with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwena Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Interesting discussion. I do believe that at least certain items should be made not BoP. Pets and mounts, definitely, as they are purely cosmetic. For example, I want a Hagnoffarl pet for my Inquisitor, and I can just see myself getting one of those super rare BoP critters as a random drop on Makeb . . . on a different character. Also, I think that orange non-CM gear that doesn't come with fancy endgame stats shouldn't be BoP either -- BoL would be better, as you still couldn't sell it to other players. For example, I got a neat looking Inquisitor chest piece while solo'ing BT on my Agent the other day, but I can't give it to my Inquisitor and I don't want it for my Agent. I think they would be very careful about allowing something like this though, so as not to hurt their CM sales. I don't think that I have enough experience with high-end 55 content and shifting gear around between characters to comment on the idea of completely removing BoP and/or making it all BoL though, so I'll just stop now. Edited July 17, 2014 by Gwena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'd probably just craft it myself, tbh. And if you couldn't craft it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why do things bind in the first place? do the items absorb your blood and are now bound to you like when you glue a piece of paper to another piece of paper?!? it always seems stupid for items to bind in MMO's like they almost always do... unless there's some kind of reason, or it's a cash-shop item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Ok, take the first paragraph and replace content with time. You're not even trying. And if you couldn't craft it? Buy it from a crafter? Exchange mats for the final product, thus making crafting something worthwhile in this game? Thus, less people complaining about the CM sucking the life out of this game? Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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