Sniper // Gunslinger Top 3 Answers

[SnickerJew]

I will always think no matter what Snipers will be desired in any raid group & on 16m you'll always want more than 1 (most group run anywhere from 3-5 last time I checked).

 

Personally, I think we're all forgetting that Snipers & Marauders are both the only classes in game that are pure DPS classes. Marauders are obviously in a pretty good place for a melee DPS, but Snipers are just a tad behind the other classes. I understand all the arguments about utility & how wonderful and versatile a Sniper's utility really is, but the DPS could be just a bit higher. In an operation I definitely hold my own on 8 & 16 man content on my Sniper & Slinger, but I just think from a single target stand point it could use a very slight buff... Just to compensate for the double proc relic DPS we lost (about 100~150 dps).

 

Just my views on the matter from someone who competes in 8 & 16 man progression and mains a Sniper/Slinger.

[HyperAxiom]

Just put flyby's damage back to where it was pre-nerf and flash grenade to be aoe again (aka revert some of your stupid previous decisions Bioware). Two simple steps which will help out slingers in both pve and pvp. I still don't quite understand why flash grenade was turned into a single target stun in the first place. Its only real benefit to slingers was in pvp, where we really need it most. Also, if sage's and shadow's dots can't be cleansed then why can slingers? You're setting a pretty stupid precedent there imo, either make them all cleansable or don't.

 

And I don't appreciate this "you're a utility class" crap either, they've actively nerfed slingers and boosted other dps classes over the past few major patches. Shadows? Boosted. Vanguards? Boosted. Watchman Sents? Boosted. Commandos? Boosted. Sages? Boosted. Slingers? Nerfed, several times.

 

With other classes pushing 4.3k dmg and slingers struggling to get 3.9k, the maths doesn't lie. Unless you're planning to have slingers provide some off-healing, you'd better be planning something dps-wise.

 

Each slinger class uses vital shot, could bumping up the damage on that be an easy way to slightly push dps up for all specs?

Edited July 4, 2014 by HyperAxiom

[Projawa]

"New Way of Thinking (game updates after 2.0): Every damage-dealing specialization should bring some utility, and no class or classes should have absolute damage dominance over the others (though this must also come with the general understanding that there will always be differences that can lead to players calling out “best” and “worse” specializations, because all the specializations are different, and we do not intend to turn this game into Checkers in an effort to create perfect balance by eliminating all diversity)."

 

Glad to hear it. WoW unfortunately homogenized its classes way too much starting in LK.

[SamuelAU]

No changes planned until 3.0, more or less what I expected. I'm happy with the answer to the first question, and it's good to see that Bioware are considering balancing all DPS and being done with 'cheese' compositions, but my only issue with this is how long it takes for changes to be implemented, and even then some specs get left behind.

 

I can definitely do enough DPS on my gunslinger to clear all the content (killed NiM Council last week), but an extra 100-150 DPS wouldn't hurt as a bit of a buffer in high damage output phases (P2 council for example). Having said that, I wouldn't trade any of my utility for extra damage, since the survivability a gunslinger brings with them in a raid group can't be understated. The issue with that is that any group composition is viable, since the healing output required for DP NiM is pretty manageable even without a ballistic shield (except maybe council).

[JackNader]

Bioware already sapped all the fun out of concealment by removing the knockdown on hidden strike. DO NOT RUIN SCATTER BOMBS!

[Vaidinah]

I *really* want to see a video from someone running Engineering on this fight…

 

I'm fairly sure we have video from one of the other guys who record our fights normally. My computer would not be able to handle recording so the perspective would be different, though. I'll have to ask one of the other guys about it. I generally pull around 3.7-4.1k DPS on this fight in Saboteur and I have to hold off on rolls and DPS at times to avoid Pulverize, Expectorate, and to shield the tanks. It's just that good on that particular fight.

 

First off, there are only two remotely hard parts to this entire fight: healing through the red circle, and getting the seed to the throne in time to plant. That's it. Everything else about the fight is walk in the proverbial story mode park, so it really doesn't matter WHAT you bring.

 

As for the two hard parts, Snipers stomp all the other classes (ranged and melee) in the face with what they can do. Careful positioning and sharp tanking allows you to put every red circle on a Sniper, which in Marksmanship spec using Entrench takes the least damage of any class in the game. As for carrying the seed, roll makes it possible to do that part even without a sorc pull. Without roll and without Extricate, I'm actually not certain *how* you would clear that final phase.

 

Also, there's no particular reason to run Pyro on this fight. For basically any strategy and role, Arsenal is going to achieve higher numbers except in the "present" phases, where DPS is irrelevant. At the very least, Arsenal's burst is dramatically higher.

 

Oh, and Madness has setup problems on this fight. Totally doable, but Lightning is going to run circles around it except in the present phases. It's the same argument as Pyro vs Arsenal, except slightly accentuated by the fact that Lightning is relatively closer to Madness than Arsenal is to Pyro.

 

The Pyro Merc + Madness Sorc part you quoted belongs to the fight above, which is Tyrans. On Calphayus, you would run Arsenal Merc and Lightning Sorc. As for the red circle, are you saying that Entrench works on it in 8 man? I know it definitely does not in 16 man as I'm the one doing it in Sharpshooter and my Entrench even with the 60% AoE damage reduction talent does not reduce the damage at all. As for getting the seed to the entrance, while Snipers are decent at it, I would think it would generally be best to have a tank or healer do it (especially if you have a Scoundrel/Operative) and that's what we do.

 

Snipers are definitely the best kiters, by far. Lethality Ops can give them a run for their money, but I think Lethality snipers still hold the crown for overall DPS while kiting. Also, range. Ballistic Shield in the final phase is the best application of any defensive cooldown in any phase of any fight currently in the game, so I wouldn't undersell that point. Additionally, Ballistic Shield late in the first phase can mean the difference between clearing and failing on a pull with bad Tyrans RNG.

 

For Ranged DPS, sure, they can do the most damage while on the run, but DPS does not matter in the first phase. It's all about survivability and being able to manage Raptus safely, which various other classes do better. I do agree that Ballistic Shield is amazing on the last phase, though.

 

Is sniper utility overrated? Yes. Do I think Bioware might be stretching the DPS balance just a little too much in order to influence the metagame? Also yes. The fact though is that basically every raid group takes a sniper, and this is a fact which seems very unlikely to change in the near future. Other than a Marauder or an Operative Healer, can you name a single other advanced class which has a guaranteed raid slot in every competitive group?

 

Pretty much every group does take a Sniper, but that's mostly because Snipers have been overpowered for almost the entire game's lifespan as far as I can tell. They are finally in a better place now, but probably a bit underpowered due to the all the recent changes. Also, I'd put Merc Healer over Scoundrel currently as Merc healers are incredible nowadays.

[Vaidinah]

You state the point, and then miss it: 20 seconds. No other class has an ability like this, not even tanks. This is on top of AOE damage reduction to such an extent that standing in fire (e.g., purple circles in the final phase of Brontes) can be fine.

 

Your statement is incorrect. Concealment Operatives can also roll to avoid attacks literally four times as much as a Sniper although theirs is much less reliable (about 50% chance from what I can tell). This is because their roll can be used twice every 10 seconds. While Snipers can roll every 20 seconds, there are extremely few situations where the lower cooldown is actually useful as a defensive mechanism as mechanics to cheese like these don't come that quickly for DPS almost ever. The same goes for Operatives.

 

That's a poor approach. Material class changes seem unlikely before the next major content patch (with a level cap increase and new Operations). Even if changes were on the horizon, it's myopic to ignore any of S&V, DF, or DP, the three Operations released during RotHC, when considering how classes might fare in future Operations. Snipers had incredible advantages for NiM S&V and its secret boss, Hateful Entity. Snipers had advantages for NiM DF, Brontes in particular. For those keeping score, that's two out of three.

 

Look at this way. We all agree Snipers were OP for a long time in previous operations. I don't see any other arguments that state otherwise at least. However, when dealing with current class balance, you have to look at current operations because that's the current environment. If we are going to consider S&V and DF, why not also add in EV, KP, and EC? The most accurate perspective to determine whether Snipers in the current environment are in the right place is to look at how they fare after their nerfs in current progression, which is NiM DP. There's nothing wrong with looking back at the past to note that Snipers were OP and not making the same mistakes, but in order to actually figure out what's best for the future, the present situation is the most important factor. Right now, Snipers are not OP and are probably underpowered in terms of DPS by a small margin.

 

I could fisk your analysis of NiM DP, but I won't bother. But, seriously, Sorc pull? Moving on...

 

Yes, Sorc pull is actually quite useful in NiM DP, which is a nice change of pace. I know many people also undervalue the usefulness of off-heals, battle res, stealth res, DPS taunts, and many other forms of utilities as well, but we have found great use for them in our team in progression. I don't know you can talk about Sniper utilities in terms of negating mechanics for themselves when Sorcerers can also negate mechanics for their entire team.

 

For Council, Sniper DPS is fine. Lethality isn't behind Sorcerer or Mercenary specializations, and you're ignoring the fact that this fight's AOE damage, all of which is Kinetic or Energy until the final burn phase, shreds Sorcerers.

 

I'm not ignoring that and continual issues like these are why I think Sorcs should get buffs to their defensive cooldowns as I have stated before. Bioware has a habit of relying heavily on unavoidable raid-wide damage that unnecessarily punishes light armor users like DPS Sorcs and Sins. I don't know why they don't just make unavoidable damage like this into Elemental or Internal damage and just lower the tank damage by a bit to compensate.

[Gyronamics]

I'm not ignoring that and continual issues like these are why I think Sorcs should get buffs to their defensive cooldowns as I have stated before. Bioware has a habit of relying heavily on unavoidable raid-wide damage that unnecessarily punishes light armor users like DPS Sorcs and Sins. I don't know why they don't just make unavoidable damage like this into Elemental or Internal damage and just lower the tank damage by a bit to compensate.

 

Ballistic Dampers.

 

Doesn't matter what damage you turn up, slingers can take less of it. If it matters. If it doesn't matter then it's trivial for everyone and just a standard healers job.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Gyronamics

[SamuelAU]

Ballistic Dampers.

 

Doesn't matter what damage you turn up, slingers can take less of it. If it matters. If it doesn't matter then it's trivial for everyone and just a standard healers job.

It doesn't matter. Raptus, Tyrans, the raid-wide ticks of damage are negligible.

[fire-breath]

We know that with all the utility Gunslingers/Snipers bring to an operation group, having Gunslingers/Snipers deal sustained damage equal to that of other classes will guarantee the Gunslinger/Sniper the spot over the other classes (in the opinion of many operation group leaders), so even if we do end up needing to increase Gunslinger/Sniper sustained damage output, the increase would not be very substantial.

 

So this means the 'heal-tax' is out but the 'utility-tax' is still in? Personally I don't mind any tax like that tbh but it seems to me you were aiming for a 'taxless' approach.

 

Our ultimate goal is for every damage dealing specialization to viably fill the DPS role in operations. We know that we are not there yet, but we have begun the long process to get there. Please be patient as we work toward this goal and as we refer back to our old design philosophy at times to defend some of our current balance decisions.

 

I applaud this goal. Its a good thing to be able to play the class which you like to do, even for the more 'pickier' raidleaders.

 

There will be major changes to the Saboteur/Engineering Gunslinger/Sniper in the expansion after Galactic Strongholds. At this time, we cannot discuss all the details of these changes, but we can say that the changes will address the damage done by Scatter Bombs and the clunky feeling of the specialization without eliminating area-of-effect capabilities.

 

It is possible that we might even decide to address the Scatter Bombs issue in a prior update, but would Saboteur/Engineering players want this skill toned down if they are not also receiving an overhaul to the rest of their skill tree with it? Let us know!

 

On my part as a PvE gunslinger I don't want the scatter bombs to be toned down without an appropriate subtitude. Currently we face the problem that hybrid gunslinging is almost as AoE as saboteur/engineering. Tone down scatterbombs and it would make the hybrid even more attractive as is.

PvPwise I agree that scatterbombs needs to be gone. There should not be any class capable of producing such a high burst AoE attack.

 

What could be an idea which also solves the AoE hybrid part is to place the lost damage from scatterbombs partially in incendiary grenade. This partially might give the gunslinger/sniper some defense value in PvP like OS/XS did.

 

PvP wise I don't have a really good idea since I rarely PvP on my slinger.

But what about an accuracy debuff on any enemy standing in inc grenade? It has to be small enough to not be overpowered. If needed make it a player-only debuff (although I would like the idea of giving tanks some added defense in PvE )

Together with a boost in inc grenade damage saboteur/eng might make it longer? Regarding the 'yelp' cooldown maybe give an absorbshield when casting inc grenade?

 

 

@ Everybody:

Lets take a deep breath

3.0 is not nearly as far away as you might think. At least not if bioware is true to its 3-3-3 schedule.

When looking back in the past new gameupdates have been released on average each 60 days. If bioware holds true to this schedule and the 3-3-3 one than we should see Galactic strongholds coming in about 6 weeks. This Q&A also clearly stated that after 2.9 there will be no 2.10 patch but rather 3.0. This means we get the new changes around mid October (the 15th according to the schedule).

 

While the 2.9 and 3.0 release dates are largely assumptions on my part it would be likely. Since Strongholds is good enough to stream on twitch I guess the work is almost finalized. This leaves the question open why bioware didn't gave us a target date yet.

Edited July 4, 2014 by fire-breath

[Mrog]

My suggestions with Sniper

1) Sniper is not a utility class. This was presented as a pure dps class and the name sniper itself lends to a high damage combat oriented class. Do an immediate and minor cross the board dps bump now to put it us in line with other range dps classes. Since the DPS is the primary purpose DPS classes, this should not be balanced against utility unless there is a sizable utility impact. The idea of having a utility dps penalty is very similar to the same line of thinking that started this problem by having sniper/marauder dps too high. If the utilities of dps classes need to be balanced, then do it by supplementing the utilities of other classes. The only reason to lag Sniper DPS behind other classes at this point is to drive down the population that bloated when they had higher than norm dps. This is a rather unfair solution to the population glutton of PvE snipers.

2) PvP could be reworked with a couple of items. The core change would be to make a sniper going into cover grant low grade stealth. The sniper could not move with stealth. The sniper could not exit combat and enter stealth. The sniper would lose stealth when attacking or being attacked. The goal of the sniper is to achieve quick positioning and then quietly and patiently wait for their prey to ambush. This would achieve the feel and game play that reflects a sniper. It would help in PvP because it would be much more difficult to single out snipers initially and target as an easy kill. The second item would be allow the snipers shield probe to be popped when stunned. This would mitigate, but not eliminate the squishiness problem that frequently leaves a sniper helpless. Neither of these would have any meaningful PvE impact (may be allow snipers to patiently skip pats), but for the most part they would change the way a PvP sniper is intended to be played.

3) Engineering rework suggestion. Change scatter bombs to be a single damaging ae strike that occurs midway in the roll path 1 sec after rolling. A grenade without knockdown. Lower the damage considerably to make this a utility and not part of the required engineering rotation. No more wall bang exploit. Change electric dot to be higher damage and remove the stacks. The dot is started by the IP and the IP needs to be on the target for the dot to exist. Snipe and Overload shot refresh the dot, but SoS is no longer part of the equation. Now you have the frame work of a nice consistent and solid single target rotation. (IP –X-X-Snipe-X-X-X-Snipe-X-X-X-X). The single target damage output of an engineering sniper should be good enough that this can be used as a full time spec and not just a specialty spec. At the same time, due to their AoE ability, they should have lower single target damage than the other two specs and at the lower end of all classes single target dps spectrum.

[DieGhostDie]

@ Everybody:

Lets take a deep breath

3.0 is not nearly as far away as you might think. At least not if bioware is true to its 3-3-3 schedule.

When looking back in the past new gameupdates have been released on average each 60 days. If bioware holds true to this schedule and the 3-3-3 one than we should see Galactic strongholds coming in about 6 weeks. This Q&A also clearly stated that after 2.9 there will be no 2.10 patch but rather 3.0. This means we get the new changes around mid October (the 15th according to the schedule).

 

While the 2.9 and 3.0 release dates are largely assumptions on my part it would be likely. Since Strongholds is good enough to stream on twitch I guess the work is almost finalized. This leaves the question open why bioware didn't gave us a target date yet.

 

Agreed. I'm saving my judgment on what BioWare does until the expansion comes out. I still enjoy my Gunslinger and I will love playing it to death regardless of the buffs and nerfs we will receive in the future.

[hesfalcon]

This post is not intended as a QQ, but to provide a perspective that others in this thread aren't addressing.

 

When seeking a slot in raids all they want is a parse. The only way to get close to other classes' DPS is to approach 40 APM. Sage DPS can get over 3500 dps with closer to 30-32 APM. So the slinger is reduced to a stupid button mashing race. REMEMBER UTILITY DOESN'T MATTER when just trying to get into the raid group.

 

Some players don't have 16 year old hands that can handle 40 APM for multiple 5 minute sessions on the parser to get that magic one with the right crits, so the nerf to gunslinger dps in raids has eliminated some very excellent players that can nail the mechanics and put out very good dps, but cannot compare to other dps, sages in particular atm.

 

Those who talk of their multiple slinger/sniper groups are talking about raid groups that already had these folks on board before the big flyby nerf and boost to other dps classes.

[Altheran]

In the expansion after Galactic Strongholds, we intend to give all of the damage dealers some utility, such that operation group leaders will want some utility or another from every damage dealer. At that time, we intend to make the damage output closer between each damage dealing specialization as well. But we cannot do this in a regular game update, because it is a massive overhaul to our existing systems and design philosophies, and it takes a significant amount of time to implement (longer than the typical 4-8 weeks that a normal update might take). So for now, while we are forced to work with the current iteration that was solidified in game update 2.0, we must continue to consider utility versus damage – otherwise we are short-sighted, and operation group leaders will continue to build groups that have nothing but Gunslingers/Snipers and Sentinels/Marauders in their DPS slots.

Beware of what "DPS = utility" philosophy can bring to the game.

 

In PvE : you'll have to balance operations around these utilties in addition to how the specs deal their damage. If spec A can do "this" and spec B can do "that" and if "this" may help in fights but "that" not so much, then spec B will be left behind. It will be very tricky to balance that.

 

In PvP : usually, utility is in the domain of tanks. Here in SWTOR they never got that much utility in the first place. Some may see it as one of the causes of how tanks have so few importance in PvP, that it may be what they need to actually be useful. If you spill the beans in every DPS spec... I know you know what I mean.

[KeyboardNinja]

I'm fairly sure we have video from one of the other guys who record our fights normally. My computer would not be able to handle recording so the perspective would be different, though. I'll have to ask one of the other guys about it. I generally pull around 3.7-4.1k DPS on this fight in Saboteur and I have to hold off on rolls and DPS at times to avoid Pulverize, Expectorate, and to shield the tanks. It's just that good on that particular fight.

 

Ah, I misunderstood the association of which specs you were suggesting where. Engineering is boss for Bestia. Our Larva-puller runs it, wall-bangs the larva once they get to him and then kites them to the monster while DoTing for further roll-in-place action. During the burn phase, we hold Bestia against the wall to bring out the 4.3k DPS magic.

 

Given that Spit hits enormously harder in 16 man, I doubt you'd be able to do precisely the same thing with the larva, but it seems clear that the spec is still extremely strong even beyond that.

 

The Pyro Merc + Madness Sorc part you quoted belongs to the fight above, which is Tyrans. On Calphayus, you would run Arsenal Merc and Lightning Sorc. As for the red circle, are you saying that Entrench works on it in 8 man? I know it definitely does not in 16 man as I'm the one doing it in Sharpshooter and my Entrench even with the 60% AoE damage reduction talent does not reduce the damage at all. As for getting the seed to the entrance, while Snipers are decent at it, I would think it would generally be best to have a tank or healer do it (especially if you have a Scoundrel/Operative) and that's what we do.

 

Entrench definitely works in 8 man. I'm surprised it doesn't in 16 man. The circle ticks for about 5.8k in 8 man on a class without AoE DR. It barely tickles through Entrench. I haven't seen exact numbers from the slingers, but I healed our first kill and I can say that the circle wasn't ticking anywhere close to 15% of their max health.

 

As for Tyrans...yeah. Slingers aren't in great shape here. Lethality does bring some nice survivability, since they have the added DR against the DoT. The shield is nice situationally, but hard to apply. Otherwise, they're just a sub-par DPS.

 

For Ranged DPS, sure, they can do the most damage while on the run, but DPS does not matter in the first phase. It's all about survivability and being able to manage Raptus safely, which various other classes do better. I do agree that Ballistic Shield is amazing on the last phase, though.

 

Range helps enormously during the second phase. Try being a melee, chasing Brontes around... Also, range have a substantial advantage during the sub-50% burn on Brontes since they have more room to maneuver and avoid lightning fingers. Their DPS drops by a lot, but I still give them the advantage over the melee.

 

As for the kiting, remember that you can completely negate every-other knockback with a roll. Contrary to your double post, operatives do not gain immunity during their roll, which makes the sniper roll still superior though on a longer cooldown. Rolling through Raptus completely negates lag and allows you to be a bit more aggressive on damage, which is something that no other kiter can do. Entrench allows you to do the same for every third knockback, meaning that only 25% of the knockbacks are a credible threat. It's hard to overstate the value of this, particularly if your latency isn't perfect and/or the server is under load.

 

Pretty much every group does take a Sniper, but that's mostly because Snipers have been overpowered for almost the entire game's lifespan as far as I can tell. They are finally in a better place now, but probably a bit underpowered due to the all the recent changes. Also, I'd put Merc Healer over Scoundrel currently as Merc healers are incredible nowadays.

 

We run without a Merc healer. I think I'd rather have one from a class standpoint, but I wouldn't consider it mandatory. Sorcs definitely bring some very nice elements which the merc cannot replace (the inverse is certainly also true). Also, speaking of metagame, the majority of the elements which are currently considered "strong" about merc healers have been present in the class since launch! Merc/Operative has always been extremely strong, but very unappreciated. It's just that the whole Kolto Shell change made people reevaluate them in a different light.

 

Operative is still pretty mandatory though. Without an operative healer, you're failing the Raptus healing challenge in 8 man at least once (twice if you have double-Merc).

Edited July 5, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[kvandertulip]

1) You keep referring to Sentinels/Marauders as being in the same boat as Gunslingers, but they are near the top in terms of dps while we are at the the bottom. This totally goes against your "new philosophy" of a utility tax. They get their guaranteed raid spot as well as excellent utility. No sniper or gunslinger or sniper is asking to be at the top of the dps leaderboards, but a class that can only dps most certainly should not be the worst at it regardless of any added utility. The reason we have the lowest sustained damage is because the nerf to Flyby was a thoughtless, lazy, and incomplete nerf. All Gunslingers really need is a very moderate increase to single target damage (via a buff to Smuggler's Luck/Laze Target or better set bonuses if nothing else). You ask us to be patient, but the nerf the Flyby was 3 patches ago. The second set of incoming changes is well past due. Asking us to wait another 2+ is not acceptable.

 

2) If no changes are being made to dps, then some survivability increases are absolutely necessary for ranked pvp regardless of any affects on PVE survivability. Taking slightly less damage in progression raiding is not a good excuse for leaving Gunslingers at the bottom, where they have been since the launch of arenas. It has been acknowleged by the devs several times that changes are needed, but nothing has been done. Leaving Gunslingers as they are for another season or more is also not acceptable.

 

3) Scatter Bombs cannot be nerfed absent of some other buff elsewhere in the tree. That is the only thing this spec has going for it. When and only when you fix the rest of the tree, Scatter Bomb should be removed. It is a horrible mechanic and terrible class design to expect a ranged class to do most of its damage in melee range.

 

 

PS. Very disappointed in the fact there are almost no specifics about anything in these answers. All we seem to be hearing from the devs about this class is changes are coming in the distant future.

Edited July 6, 2014 by kvandertulip

[kvandertulip]

Suggested changes for PVP survivability:

 

Improve stealth detection.

 

Make Cover Screen allow you to keep Ballistic Dampers when you leave cover and increase charges by 1.

 

Change the 4-piece PVP bonus to anything useful.

 

Make us immune to dots for the duration of Dodge.

[kvandertulip]

In PvP : usually, utility is in the domain of tanks. Here in SWTOR they never got that much utility in the first place. Some may see it as one of the causes of how tanks have so few importance in PvP, that it may be what they need to actually be useful. If you spill the beans in every DPS spec... I know you know what I mean.

 

I agree. Buffing dps utility only serves to further marginalize tanks in pvp.

[fire-breath]

Ah, I misunderstood the association of which specs you were suggesting where. Engineering is boss for Bestia. Our Larva-puller runs it, wall-bangs the larva once they get to him and then kites them to the monster while DoTing for further roll-in-place action. During the burn phase, we hold Bestia against the wall to bring out the 4.3k DPS magic.

 

Given that Spit hits enormously harder in 16 man, I doubt you'd be able to do precisely the same thing with the larva, but it seems clear that the spec is still extremely strong even beyond that.

 

Don't forget that we need to exclude scatterbombing from theorizing atm. The combat team stated that they might adress it earlier than 3.0. Also the damage done by scatterbombing wasn't intended which means more nerfs incoming.

Comparing specs is fine but most likely gunslinger/snipers will lose the scatterbombing bonus fast.

 

With the rest of the arguments I do agree. Gunslingers are bringing nice utility if only for their hightail and scrambling field. What I don't agree with is that as a raidleader you shouldn't be to picky in which classes your team brings. As long as you don't stack 4 of the same class it should be more than doable. But this is just a personal feeling I have.

[Vaidinah]

Ballistic Dampers.

 

Doesn't matter what damage you turn up, slingers can take less of it. If it matters. If it doesn't matter then it's trivial for everyone and just a standard healers job.

 

Ballistic Dampeners is probably the best defense in the game just because of how frequently, effectively, and reliably it can be used to reduce damage from attacks without even costing GCDs when used properly. It's true that this alone makes Gunslingers/Snipers who take it the toughest overall DPS in the game (at least in PvE). Sharpshooter/Marksman will take it without question, but any other spec will lose DPS to do so, which can be worth it under certain circumstances.

[SamuelAU]

Ballistic Dampeners is probably the best defense in the game just because of how frequently, effectively, and reliably it can be used to reduce damage from attacks without even costing GCDs when used properly. It's true that this alone makes Gunslingers/Snipers who take it the toughest overall DPS in the game (at least in PvE). Sharpshooter/Marksman will take it without question, but any other spec will lose DPS to do so, which can be worth it under certain circumstances.

It's not a DPS loss to take Ballistic Dampers in lethality/dirty fighting. +10 energy is pretty much optional.

[Orderken]

Operative is still pretty mandatory though. Without an operative healer, you're failing the Raptus healing challenge in 8 man at least once.

 

I agree that an Operative is ideal for NiM DP. But a Mercenary and Sorcerer should pass every round of Raptus's Healing Challenge.

 

Expected healing of the Dying Captive:

• Sorcerer - 78k
  
• Operative - 71k
  
• Mercenary - 70k
  

 

Assumptions for the above:

• The duration of a Healing Challenge is 15 seconds, and each class's first GCD is for a cleanse that contributes no healing to the Dying Captive.
  
• Roughly BIS 186s. Ability cooldowns are used, but not an Adrenal. No Relic is active (proc or clicky).
  
• Neither Static Barrier, Kolto Residue, nor Armor buffs reduce the amount of health lost by the Dying Captive.
  
• I counted Kolto Residue's +3% healing received for the Mercenary only.
  

 

For the first round, Force Barrier is your team's Evasion. For the second round, the Sorcerer cleanses the Dying Captive, sets up his two HOTs (Revivification and Resurgence), and cleanses himself. Over the remaining ~9 seconds, the Sorcerer's expected healing of the Dying Captive is 62k. Both Adrenal the second round.

[SamuelAU]

If you're going to post to this thread, can it not be about healing? The topic at hand is sniper/gunslinger questions.

[Ashuranrx]

To fix Sniper survivability in ranked pvp, I suggest 2 solutions:

 

1. Get rid of ranked arenas and bring back ranked 8v8 warzones. Snipers, along many other bad arena specs of other classes, have no issues in warzones. Balancing classes around ranked arenas will create nightmares in other aspects of end game.

 

2. Turn the 1 minute cooldown Snipe auto-crit ability into a defensive cooldown ability. I suggest a non-global cooldown affected, stun activatable, ability buff for the Sniper that will mez any attacker that hits the Sniper for 3 seconds, buff lasts for 5 seconds. White bar attacker will be immune of course.

[Mathemagica]

Answer 1: Interesting to know your current design philosophy. I have one concern though: If you introduce useful utility to most, if not all ACs with Galactic Strongholds, then Snipers utility might no longer be enough to compensate for inferior damage output. When dps specialisations are roughly on par in terms of utility, the gap in damage needs to become smaller, unless the utility of each AC is truly unique and truly useful.

 

Answer 2: I won't comment, since I don't do Warzones/Arenas.

 

Answer 3: Thanks for the confirmation about Engineering and the mysterious expansion. Scatter bombs should not be changed without some damage-increase for other Engineering abilities, even if it is only temporary until the mysterious expansion. Such a damage increase would preferably be high up in the tree to prevent any synergy with Engineering/Lethality hybrids.

From a PvE perspective, I think that it would be better to leave Scatter bombs as they are until the full package of changes arrives. Temporary buffs will have a negative backlash once they're removed, even if people knew that they were temporary.

 

I think the most interesting questions right now are:

 

1) When can we see the class changes coming with Galactic Strongholds?

 

2) The mysterious larger expansion you've been hinting at since spring sounds like it is going to be 3.0. I think, many people would appreciate it, if you would make a post about your design philosophy once this yet unnamed expansion comes out. Not just about class balance, but also about things like alacrity (again) and accuracy for tanks and healers.

In that context, please note that most of the blogs about class changes after 2.0 weren't very forthcoming when it came to information about design philosophy, your answer to Question 1 in this thread was.