housing got decoration hooks :((

[ghoul_drool]

I honestly think tilting would make a huge difference. Just putting a chair on its side or a crate, or a bookshelf fallen over would be good for some themes.

 

I also really miss stacking items.

[Deewe]

I read nearly the whole thread, and I saw a whole lot of suggestions from people who don't really understand what will and won't be practical. You made a few suggestions that might work but you gave no specifics on how those things might actually be done within the UI that they're going to build for hooks. If you're interested in getting the devs to listen, then you're going to have to be specific and organized. Since you seem to be a pretty smart guy and are familiar with the free placement system, perhaps you might take the lead and create a list of in-system suggestions and flesh them out a bit. I think some of the limitations that people are objecting to might be addressed if you present solutions in that way. The current direction of the thread doesn't seem to be headed towards anything constructive.

Sadly years of trying to communicate with the producers has proven it isn't the case.

Whatever players post, the devs will do what the producer(s) and senior designers tell them to do.

 

Considering your user_id #820077 and your first thread dates from 12.28.2011 I'm pretty sure you already know that.

 

 

Devs knew pretty well players wanted a free placement item for housing.

 

Listen to the voice tone during the galactic twitch series and Look at the body language. They clearly know they aren't meeting players expectations.

[Daekarus]

Sadly years of trying to communicate with the producers has proven it isn't the case.

Whatever players post, the devs will do what the producer(s) and senior designers tell them to do.

 

Considering your user_id #820077 and your first thread dates from 12.28.2011 I'm pretty sure you already know that.

 

 

Devs knew pretty well players wanted a free placement item for housing.

 

Listen to the voice tone during the galactic twitch series and Look at the body language. They clearly know they aren't meeting players expectations.

I have been here long enough to see many player requested features, even very large ones, get implemented. I've also seen many ignored. That, to me, seems reasonable considering that the devs have their own vision for the game.

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that, "Devs knew pretty well some players wanted a free placement item for housing." Many people seem totally OK with it, and personally I think I'd prefer the hook system they've developed. Of course, I'm not a housing fanatic, but I suspect most of the player base isn't. I imagine that many people are interested in housing to one degree or another and will be content to work within whatever system is put in place.

 

I think any anomalous behavior easily explained by the fact that they know there are packs of rabid trolls out there, waiting to descend on and tear apart anything they do or say - or they may just not be particularly comfortable on camera!

 

You are welcome to read anything you want into all this - let's just say I think it is just as easy to wear ash-colored glasses as rose-colored ones. I'm not bothering to claim anything, good or bad, until it's released and in my hands for a while.

[Deewe]

I have been here long enough to see many player requested features, even very large ones, get implemented. I've also seen many ignored. That, to me, seems reasonable considering that the devs have their own vision for the game.

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that, "Devs knew pretty well some players wanted a free placement item for housing." Many people seem totally OK with it, and personally I think I'd prefer the hook system they've developed. Of course, I'm not a housing fanatic, but I suspect most of the player base isn't. I imagine that many people are interested in housing to one degree or another and will be content to work within whatever system is put in place.

 

I think any anomalous behavior easily explained by the fact that they know there are packs of rabid trolls out there, waiting to descend on and tear apart anything they do or say - or they may just not be particularly comfortable on camera!

 

You are welcome to read anything you want into all this - let's just say I think it is just as easy to wear ash-colored glasses as rose-colored ones. I'm not bothering to claim anything, good or bad, until it's released and in my hands for a while.

Only issue being some people at SWTOR headquarters have a very narrow vision and when delivering they are doing it half way only.

 

They don't even try to make thinks as good as what can be found in others MMO and that's of the issue.

 

Housing being the last stroke.

 

Seriously if it's a niche and you do it, at least do it well or don't bother because:

people who don't care about it won't stay subbed for that and people who cares will find better game play in others games. So once again: do it well or don't... there is no try.

 

For now housing as the space sim in its actual state is just a waste of funds who would have been better used in other mechanics, starting by actual content as it's actually impacting more players.

[Daekarus]

I can't really offer an unbiased view of GSF because I have literally only done the training mission just to get that quest over with - I have absolutely no use for it at all because I don't do PVP in practically any form. I consider it a waste of resources and time until it has a PVE element added. If I had been in charge, I wouldn't have built it at all, PVE or not. It is obvious that others feel differently because many people seem to like it very much.

 

As I said, I am reserving judgement on housing until it's out. It's another feature I wouldn't have bothered to spend time and resources on, but since it's not PVP I might actually mess with it. I disagree that, based on what we know, most people will find it a waste of time and resources. I expect it to be fairly popular if the level of polish is sufficient and it is adequately supported by crafting and integration into the rest of the game. For most of the population, the free placement debate will be totally irrelevant.

[Arkerus]

Oh, if there is anything I am sure of Arkerus, its that I have no problem "keeping up"......

 

 

 

.....AND people have to accept whats there, you can't break the game, ad nauseum....unless you think the folks that don't like hooks are the only ones being loud.

 

 

 

I agree, they are not very constructive, SOME OF THEM. Same thing on the "defender' side. Some folks, however, have tried to post helpful constructive comments, both pro and con....but naturally the loudest folks on both sides of the fence soundly trounce those folks more often than not.

 

 

 

I think we are all aware of that Arkerus.

 

 

 

A bit of speculation here, but again, I think everyone knows this.

 

 

 

ONE OF THE VERY FEW SENSIBLE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID BY ANYONE SO FAR. Funny what happens when you put down the 4 year old giddy shenanigans and actually use adult speak...eh?

 

 

 

Same can be said for the defender side. There is plenty of silly behavior that lacks self respect to go around.

 

 

 

....which places you firmly in the "lack of self respect" group. This kind of comment makes you exactly the kind of person you are complaining about.

 

 

 

Could someone who doesnt like the fact that folks complain do the same? Methinks that is probably the case.....

 

 

 

AH! One more grown up comment in a sea of diatribe! Its too bad you can't have more of this and less of "hit myself in the head with a brick" kind of comments.

 

 

 

Hmm. Pointless argument? Plenty of that from both sides. No one cares? Who the heck are you to speak for everyone! If the artist in you is hurt....or the little kid with his toy is hurt his little sister or brother doesnt like his toy, goochy goo?

 

Come on guys. A bit of snark is fine, but do you really lack self respect so badly that you can't post positive or negative comments without sounding like your trying to whistle out of your bum?

 

How about everyone puts down the bricks and pitchforks and try making sense for once? BOTH SIDES.

 

....did I keep up?

 

How about this....stop acting like annoyed little children and actually make sensible arguments pro and con....and lay off those that do. If you like the system and others don't....suck it up. People will always dislike something about the things you love. If you don't like the system suggest something to make it better, instead of simply raging about it.

 

ABOVE ALL try and concede that this could be bad for Bioware OR this could be fine. Both things are possible. We will have to see.

 

NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE but we have to be sensible about this. Raging about it accomplishes nothing.

 

Above all, try and keep in mind the SENSIBLE part of Arkerus's post....now unburdened by diatribe.

 

...even if they had used an "open" system, IT still has RULES. It's still not completely open. A system has rules to make it work. NO SYSTEM IS LIMITLESS.

 

Very wise words Arkerus.

 

I will add some of my own.

 

SWGs system, without a UI was a bit TOO LOOSE IMO. Do you really want a system that loose? This system has a nice UI...perhaps there is room to consider some kind of compromise as some folks have suggested?

 

I find it hard to take people seriously when they act like Bioware "failed" at housing when there is no set standard to begin with. I understand why decisions are made and i'll probably enjoy the system. If Bioware had come out said it would be free placement and then went BACK on their word....then ok, people should be upset. But in this case they promised a system and delivered one. If someone doesn't like it, then can decide where to spend their monet OR accept reality and TRY it.

 

And the kicker? All the complainers will be using it anyway.

 

I find disgenuous and negative people to be extremely toxic. While I may be snark or crass, I am not negative.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Arkerus

[Deewe]

I find it hard to take people seriously when they act like Bioware "failed" at housing when there is no set standard to begin with. I understand why decisions are made and i'll probably enjoying the system. If Bioware had come out said it would be free placement and then went BACK on their word....then ok, people should be upset. But in this case they promised a system and delivered one. If someone doesn't like it, then can decide where to spend their monet OR accept reality and TRY it.

 

And the kicker? All the complainers will be using it anyway.

 

I find disgenuous and negative people to be extremely toxic. While I may be snark or crass, I am not negative.

Standard:

Low one: Lotro

Top ones: Wildstar, Rift, EQ2, SWG

 

Complainers might eventually use it, I'm more afraid of people not saying anything because they know better as it won't change a damn thing. As with the tube shooter and many others parts they are just going to leave or in best case scenario won't come back or sub.

[brutall]

i hope they read this post and se if there is any thing they can work on

[Aries_cz]

If someone is still pondering the "why the hooks" question, listen to last twitch stream, starting at roughly 37 minutes, lead designer on strongholds, Jack, explains it.

[AlienEyeTX]

Standard:

Low one: Lotro

Top ones: Wildstar, Rift, EQ2, SWG

 

Complainers might eventually use it, I'm more afraid of people not saying anything because they know better as it won't change a damn thing. As with the tube shooter and many others parts they are just going to leave or in best case scenario won't come back or sub.

 

SWTOR is its own game. They did not set expectations for this system... the community did. As usual. It won't be everyone's cup of tea. Nothing is. I'm curious to see it in person and experience it. Until then, I think it makes a lot of sense. Could it be better? I bet it could. Could it be worse? You betcha!

[ikinai]

SWTOR is its own game. They did not set expectations for this system... the community did. As usual. It won't be everyone's cup of tea. Nothing is. I'm curious to see it in person and experience it. Until then, I think it makes a lot of sense. Could it be better? I bet it could. Could it be worse? You betcha!

 

Could I have a cup of coffee instead of a cup of tea please?

[AlienEyeTX]

Could I have a cup of coffee instead of a cup of tea please?

 

Coffee is an odd choice for flavor of tea! I suggest just uninstalling your cofftea mug and go drink water instead, as you will obviously never be satisfied with this product.

 

[ikinai]

Coffee is an odd choice for flavor of tea! I suggest just uninstalling your cofftea mug and go drink water instead, as you will obviously never be satisfied with this product.

 

 

Fine I'll just stick to RC colas and moonpies then.

[Aries_cz]

Could I have a cup of coffee instead of a cup of tea please?

 

Coffee? What kind of tea is that? You should drink Earl Grey, hot, it stops aging pretty well, at least according to Patrick Stewart

Edited July 11, 2014 by Aries_cz

[ikinai]

Coffee? What kind of tea is that? You should drink Earl Grey, hot, it stops aging pretty well, at least according to Patrick Stewart

 

Fine, is the ratio of tea to moonshine, one teaspoon of tea to two shots of shine? I can't remember rightly on that.

[Infernixx]

i hope they read this post and se if there is any thing they can work on

 

Just like to note that last week's stream had someone asking if we could duel in our Strongholds. The dev looked unsure at each other and said "we'll get back to you on that."

 

This week, it was asked again and we got a solid "Yes, you can duel in your Strongholds."

 

The streams and threads like these are very much a part of their development process. They're 'still' deciding what stuff is going to go into them, so be vocal and be clear and be constructive. Give them stuff that they can use and isn't outrageous and you'd be surprised what we can get out of this.

[ikinai]

Just like to note that last week's stream had someone asking if we could duel in our Strongholds. The dev looked unsure at each other and said "we'll get back to you on that."

 

This week, it was asked again and we got a solid "Yes, you can duel in your Strongholds."

 

The streams and threads like these are very much a part of their development process. They're 'still' deciding what stuff is going to go into them, so be vocal and be clear and be constructive. Give them stuff that they can use and isn't outrageous and you'd be surprised what we can get out of this.

 

We need a hi-fi console in our houses where we can stream our mp3's through, so other people visiting our houses can listen to our music. Then I can play 'I'm a little teapot' for everyone visiting.

[Darth_Wicked]

We need a hi-fi console in our houses where we can stream our mp3's through, so other people visiting our houses can listen to our music. Then I can play 'I'm a little teapot' for everyone visiting.

 

I want

to be playing until the end of times on Nar Shaddaaa. Edited July 11, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Infernixx]

We need a hi-fi console in our houses where we can stream our mp3's through, so other people visiting our houses can listen to our music. Then I can play 'I'm a little teapot' for everyone visiting.

 

That would be amazing, but I 'think' it falls outside of the 'not outrageous' stipulation.

[Aries_cz]

We need a hi-fi console in our houses where we can stream our mp3's through, so other people visiting our houses can listen to our music. Then I can play 'I'm a little teapot' for everyone visiting.

 

That could probably open some serious can of copyright claim worms (we all know how grubby recording companies are all around the world)

[ikinai]

That could probably open some serious can of copyright claim worms (we all know how grubby recording companies are all around the world)

 

I once asked for the moon and got an ice cream cone out of it, mostly to make me shut up as my dad was sick of hearing me talk I think, and I was five. But I took the moral of that story to mean ask for the moon and you'll get something you might like instead, like ice cream cones.

[Sambril]

If someone is still pondering the "why the hooks" question, listen to last twitch stream, starting at roughly 37 minutes, lead designer on strongholds, Jack, explains it.

He does, and I find the "devs know best, players are morons" answer (paraphrased) quite insulting. It they had wanted to make a free placement system easier to use they could have had an optional 'snap-to-grid' system like many graphical programs. In any case while that may have been part of the motivation, I think a large portion is the desire of the devs to limit just how much we can change the look and feel of the game. That was hinted at in the first stream (I don't have a time reference, sorry). But hooks are here to stay and we'll have to like it or lump it, it is far too late to change it now.

 

Something that we may influence is the requirement for the owner to be online before a player can visit a publicly listed stronghold. What is the point of a public listing if players cannot visit at any time?

[Darth_Wicked]

He does, and I find the "devs know best, players are morons" answer (paraphrased) quite insulting. (...)

 

Dude says - in other words - they went for a system that is both intuitive and accessible to everyone, though he both(!!!) ACKNOWLEDGES and UNDERSTANDS that some people would have liked something a bit more complex, as in, no hooks system. He doesn't beat around the bush or anything but is actually honest about it.

 

Your translation?

 

We're all morons as players. Amazing.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Daekarus]

Dude says - in other words - they went for a system that is both intuitive and accessible to everyone, though he both(!!!) ACKNOWLEDGES and UNDERSTANDS that some people would have liked something a bit more complex, as in, no hooks system. He doesn't beat around the bush or anything but is actually honest about it.

 

Your translation?

 

We're all morons as players. Amazing.

 

When someone is determined to hate the devs and be dissatisfied with anything unless they get exactly what they want, there is really no way to reach them with logic. They're not going to see or hear anything as it actually is, so you might as well not waste your effort on them.

 

I don't know why developers even put up with it. I would never continue working in an industry where I was treated so badly by those I was working to entertain.

[Vinak]

If someone is still pondering the "why the hooks" question, listen to last twitch stream, starting at roughly 37 minutes, lead designer on strongholds, Jack, explains it.

 

They want decorating to have "variety" while still "making sense"

That free placement is "easy to make difficult" or to "Know where to put things that make sense".

Otherwise it can "get out of control"

 

He is basically saying the entire TOR community are a bunch of idiots that don't know how to handle free placement. They want you to design within their own limited scope and imagination...And Symmetry is super important for some reason.

 

A free placement system shouldn't be difficult to implement on top of the already established hook system. All they have to do is allow you to drop an item wherever you are currently standing and allow free movement of that item within the already built UI.

 

It's not really a matter of "pleasing everyone", it's a matter of EA constantly developing inferior products and expecting us to like it. I hate to have to compare SWTOR to SWG but it just has to be done. I want to mess around with a new housing system that looks, and feels better than the old system. I don't want to wish I could have the old system over the new. SWG's system is just flat out superior to this one. Every house you visited was unique. A hook system inherently restricts creative possibility...and it's just not necessary. The objects seem to behave in a free placement system...but where you place them is restricted by hooks.