housing got decoration hooks :((

[jasv_s]

i don't want have that hook system! Give us atlest option to turn it off and on ,for who wan to do that. What i love about housing is making stuff out of stuff. This is a huge let down for me i wanna have freedom to place my items where i want or not want !

[Sarfux]

Ges you think a nuclear bomb just went off by some comments in here. It's not as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be AT ALL. Just settle down.

[brutall]

am not saying the hook system is all bad. but if they gave us the option to not use hooks aka free placement

they will please even more players. some ppl take housing very serious and like to get creative with it. but hooks limits creativity badly

[Jrr_hypernova]

so is this going to be like the sim where i have to tell khem to use the washroom or he'll dance around untill theres a puddle on the floor because as an evil overlord i don't have for cleaning .

[Deewe]

Items are already limited to where they can go (floor, ceiling, walls) without hooks. Hooks add additional limitation in that items must be placed within an area. There seems to be a little bit of wiggle room slightly over the borders but you can't place something right where a border is.

 

DCUO does it right. You can place a couch anywhere on the floor if there is space, like you could in a real room. But you can't place it on the wall or ceiling or have it floating in space or have it stand on one end.

Without even speaking about setting a couch on a ceiling you can't even drop a lamp or weapon or a helmet on a table.

[LordArtemis]

Without even speaking about setting a couch on a ceiling you can't even drop a lamp or weapon or a helmet on a table.

 

I think that if they could offer at least a few hooks we could move around before use this particular problem would be solved.

[Graydon]

Ges you think a nuclear bomb just went off by some comments in here. It's not as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be AT ALL. Just settle down.

 

Typical...

 

It's pretty telling when you and others say it's not that bad. Even more telling, this long *** thread doesn't have anybody gushing how awesome the house design and building feature is going to be.

 

Nope. The usual group of the devoted will ridicule your critical feedback and for expressing disappointment.

[LordArtemis]

Well, to be fair there has been plenty of chest pounding on both sides of the fence IMO.

 

I too reacted VERY badly to the news, I am still disappointed but certainly not as concerned as i was after hearing about the ability to place some types of terminals....

 

...to me, this means that even if I turned out to hate the hook system in place (haven't found one yet that I found even remotely well designed and fun, but there is a first time for everything) at the very least the housing will have some functionality....hopefully a functionality that exceeds our starships.

 

Would LOVE it if I had the ability to place a GTN, Mod vendor, crew skill trainer, mail and repair droids and a daily travel kiosk....along with normal cargo and legacy storage. Then I would just place those terminals right at the entrance and be done with it.

[errant_knight]

Well, as I suggested, they could perhaps allow us a few "free floating" hooks that we could place, they could be moved around, positioned in air, on top of other furniture items, etc....then we lock them in place and use them.

 

When we want to move them we would have to unlock them. This way they remain static when being used, but have the ability to be moved when we want to move them somewhere.

 

This would be a good compromise IMO. They do not have to even provide that many...perhaps 5 or 6 small ones per room that can be moved around. We could even pay to unlock them in some way.

 

That's actually a damn good solution to this. I'm not sure it would be as easy to implement as it sounds, but it's a nice idea, conceptually.

[LordArtemis]

That's actually a damn good solution to this. I'm not sure it would be as easy to implement as it sounds, but it's a nice idea, conceptually.

 

Well, the ease of implementation depends on how the hooks are coded. One thing I noticed is the hook swap, which to my knowledge IS unique. If the hook is an individual activation point attached to a decoration node, then it might be an object that can be moved.

 

Naturally, if the reason you want to have hooks is because the game doesn't play nice with random placed items, the hook would have be steady state when being used.....so the idea is to move the hook, not the item that is decoration.

 

It really depends quite a bit on whether or not this is unique code or built from the design engine used on a regular basis to populate the world....and if it has restricted areas to place objects.

[errant_knight]

Well, the ease of implementation depends on how the hooks are coded. One thing I noticed is the hook swap, which to my knowledge IS unique. If the hook is an individual activation point attached to a decoration node, then it might be an object that can be moved.

 

Naturally, if the reason you want to have hooks is because the game doesn't play nice with random placed items, the hook would have be steady state when being used.....so the idea is to move the hook, not the item that is decoration.

 

It really depends quite a bit on whether or not this is unique code or built from the design engine used on a regular basis to populate the world....and if it has restricted areas to place objects.

 

Yep, I was thinking the same thing. Without seeing the code, it's very difficult to say how doable it might be. I think it's a great suggestion for them to look at, though.

[LordArtemis]

Yep, I was thinking the same thing. Without seeing the code, it's very difficult to say how doable it might be. I think it's a great suggestion for them to look at, though.

 

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[Deewe]

I think that if they could offer at least a few hooks we could move around before use this particular problem would be solved.

You realize you are asking for workarounds to get 3D positioning and then we end with a system getting more and more cumbersome to use.

 

The real solution and best of both worlds here is to:

• Keep the hook system as is
  
• Add an optional advanced free placement mode
  

 

Somehow the designers think the hook system is easier to use and less messy than a free placement one, which is wrong. Although with the above they don't trash their work and players that want it can have more room to use their strongholds.

[LordArtemis]

You realize you are asking for workarounds to get 3D positioning and then we end with a system getting more and more cumbersome to use.

 

The real solution and best of both worlds here is to:

• Keep the hook system as is
  
• Add an optional advanced free placement mode
  

 

Somehow the designers think the hook system is easier to use and less messy than a free placement one, which is wrong. Although with the above they don't trash their work and players that want it can have more room to use their strongholds.

 

I understand it would add more complexity, and perhaps, if they were wiling to consider it I would prefer some kind of choice of either hooks or free placement naturally.

 

But I am looking at this as an intentional design feature, one that they deliberately put in because they wanted to control both the ease at which items could be placed and, frankly, what could be placed where. Since they want control over the decoration process I feel it is unlikely they will give up that control entirely.

 

Just my view naturally.

[brutall]

You realize you are asking for workarounds to get 3D positioning and then we end with a system getting more and more cumbersome to use.

 

The real solution and best of both worlds here is to:

• Keep the hook system as is
  
• Add an optional advanced free placement mode
  

 

Somehow the designers think the hook system is easier to use and less messy than a free placement one, which is wrong. Although with the above they don't trash their work and players that want it can have more room to use their strongholds.

 

i want this aswel. atlest i hope devs take a real look at it and see if it can be done

[Deewe]

I understand it would add more complexity, and perhaps, if they were wiling to consider it I would prefer some kind of choice of either hooks or free placement naturally.

 

But I am looking at this as an intentional design feature, one that they deliberately put in because they wanted to control both the ease at which items could be placed and, frankly, what could be placed where. Since they want control over the decoration process I feel it is unlikely they will give up that control entirely.

 

Just my view naturally.

We all know that, otherwise why waste more $$$ than simply making a free placement system?

 

They can end not letting players have free placement for whatever reason, thing is they're going to loose customers just for that.

What irks me is they are spending more and in the end getting less players as alienating some of them.

 

They did this with other features like the space sim first not having a multiplayer one then not having a real 3d space sim. They thought making it less complex and more guided would target more players than what more hardcore type of content can.

 

Look the status of the PvE tunnel shooter: I know nobody who plays it but sometimes for easy XP.

PvP space sim isn't that great either.

 

And we ended with two different game play topped by the fact one can't learn PvP combat in PvP.

Worst configuration possible game play and design wise.

 

 

Long term make it easy to step in but make it deep.

The actual housing system does not allows the second part

Edited July 6, 2014 by Deewe

[casirabit]

A few things I would like to say.

 

First I used to play on SWG and I liked the free placement when I was able to design my fishtanks, etc but:

 

First when SWG first had the decorating you all may have forgotten that it did not release with the design as it later had. We were unable to turn the couches etc so where you dropped them they had to stay like that. We could not put things on the desk, etc at first. That was released much later.

 

Second when that happened a lot of people were confused on how to use it. Sure a few people were able to figure it out easily but not everyone.

 

Third we had items that dropped in that game that we could essentially use to put things together but we do not have those items here so without those things there is no way you could design a fish tank, no fish, none of the items you could use for a fish tank, no food, no drinks, etc. Later they even had it where you could even get a fish tank that you didn't have to put together.

 

Fourth, the hook system looks very good with the way it is design. There are a number of people that a free placement system would intimidate and they would not know how to use it. This system makes it easier for them. Sure it may not be perfect, they could add some hooks to some tables, etc and maybe a few hooks you could move, but overall this system will be easier for those that have never played an MMO and we do have quite a few people that haven't.

 

I would rather them release something that everyone could use than release something that will give problems to people to understand how to use. I was used to free placement but I am also able to understand why not and besides this I can't make a fish tank, a cantina, a kitchen well we can't anyways since we do not have those items in SWTOR.

 

I think it would be nice to have some hooks though on tables so we could place a lamp where we would like it.

[Deewe]

A few things I would like to say.

 

First I used to play on SWG and I liked the free placement when I was able to design my fishtanks, etc but:

 

First when SWG first had the decorating you all may have forgotten that it did not release with the design as it later had. We were unable to turn the couches etc so where you dropped them they had to stay like that. We could not put things on the desk, etc at first. That was released much later.

 

Second when that happened a lot of people were confused on how to use it. Sure a few people were able to figure it out easily but not everyone.

 

Third we had items that dropped in that game that we could essentially use to put things together but we do not have those items here so without those things there is no way you could design a fish tank, no fish, none of the items you could use for a fish tank, no food, no drinks, etc. Later they even had it where you could even get a fish tank that you didn't have to put together.

 

Fourth, the hook system looks very good with the way it is design. There are a number of people that a free placement system would intimidate and they would not know how to use it. This system makes it easier for them. Sure it may not be perfect, they could add some hooks to some tables, etc and maybe a few hooks you could move, but overall this system will be easier for those that have never played an MMO and we do have quite a few people that haven't.

 

I would rather them release something that everyone could use than release something that will give problems to people to understand how to use. I was used to free placement but I am also able to understand why not and besides this I can't make a fish tank, a cantina, a kitchen well we can't anyways since we do not have those items in SWTOR.

 

I think it would be nice to have some hooks though on tables so we could place a lamp where we would like it.

I'd say nobody's against a hook system as long as they give the players an optional free placement item mode.

 

Use hooks for main layout, go to advanced mode for tweaking and deep customization and we are done

 

 

Never read people being confused by the system but only people needing a more friendly interface.

BTW you could rotate items from start but you had to use a /rotate command in the command line.

If I remember well it was the same for the Z axys tweaking, not everyone was aware of this.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Deewe

[LordArtemis]

There were confused folks in SWG at first. I think the numbers of confused folks reduced over time until most had a good grasp of the text commands and targeting.

 

That was actually the most confusing to folks....how to select an item and keep it locked when manipulating it.

[Deewe]

There were confused folks in SWG at first. I think the numbers of confused folks reduced over time until most had a good grasp of the text commands and targeting.

 

That was actually the most confusing to folks....how to select an item and keep it locked when manipulating it.

Not because free placement is difficult but because there was no UI to move objects.

 

You had to do everything manually using /commands.

 

Take SWG system add a UI frame with a few buttons like

• Move X
  
• Move Y
  
• Move Z
  
• Rotate
  
• Tilt
  

 

And you are done.

[Khevar]

I'd say nobody's against a hook system as long as they give the players an optional free placement item mode.

 

Use hooks for main layout, go to advanced mode for tweaking and deep customization and we are done

Not a bad idea. I wonder if BW would consider adding something like this in the future.

[Sarfux]

Not a bad idea. I wonder if BW would consider adding something like this in the future.

 

It's something along the lines of that

[aeterno]

I think BWs tendency to want to control player actions up to a degree customization is only allowed in the narrow field the devs feel still looks good is misguided.

 

Yea in a way keeping the distinct style of all 4 strongholds is kinda neat but you could enable some wall/floor/ceiling/lighting customization with all the beautiful textures already in the database.

 

Having siad that, hooks are clearly catering to the lowest common denominator... and I'm not ashamed to say I'm part of it. I'm really not blown away by the fact I can make a huge 10m banana in wildstar and suspend it in mid air. The reality of those systems is that you get a couple geniouses making incredible things that are youtube hits but also an army of people that just CBA really using the thing. Fair game to those that want to spend 20 hours making a living room of their dreams but those types of attention spans are found rarely outside of developer work.

 

And this will be a micro transaction monetized system. Of course they went with the derpy derp easy clip on (with pre-sets even) system the likes of me will actually spend 15min on to deck out a room. This is better for 99% of the players I dare say. Would an option for free placement placate both the 99 and 1%? Sure. But BW probably calculated there's no buck for the bang in that, else they'd have included it from the get go. Sucks but you cant really blame them either, as much as the minority of the minority that's into fengshui will tare me a new one for saying that. Of course they'll take a larger % base of the population actively using the system and possibly spending CC on it over the coveted title of "best housing system in an MMO" in the youtube "my top 5 X" awards. It makes sense and we all know it.

Edited July 7, 2014 by aeterno

[LordArtemis]

Well, I hope that it is in fact 1%. My only concern is that similar contentions were made for GSF, and even the original space combat feature, orange gear, appearance changes after character creation, unified comms, etc.

 

All too often people assume that folks will be fine with a feature as is. Unfortunately that has proven more often than not to not be the case.

[Vinak]

Some of us are very passionate about housing and would love to see SWTOR do something great. I think most of us realise Bioware won't decide to make a free placement system for us at this stage but maybe they can expand the off sets a bit.

 

This highlights one of bioware's fundamental problems with its development process. They consume resources developing new game features without bothering to ask us what we'd actually like to see first. By the time they announce these new features, its too late to adjust or change anything to better suit what the community actually wants. Thus we are stuck with inferior content.

 

You realize that the "hooks" are very liberal. Just because you can't staple your couch to the ceiling doesn't mean that the system is "limiting" Basically all the hooks do is limit the arrangements to reasonable layouts. i.e. no floating furniture and whatnot.

 

A hook system by definition is limiting. You can only arrange your house in a predetermined fashion according to however the devs deem fit to do so.

 

It vastly limits creativity. It basically negates the entire purpose in implementing a housing system in the first place. Whats the point of owning a home or visiting other homes when you know the layout is generally going to be exactly the same?

 

You are going to have hooks in the exact same place as any other player and those hooks are only going to accept a certain kind of item to be placed in them. Whereas in a free placement system you could create truly unique layouts and themes.

 

At the end of the day, their sole motivation to create a housing system with a hook system was to generate a new category of stuff to sell in the cartel market.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Vinak