Given Bioware's horrid communication, releases, and overhyping, I wish theyd refocus.

[ZionHalcyon]

The rate at which things are going is horrible. We first got GSF and now upcoming getting GSH as some lame 3 month release "event" where they sell us on "Subscribers get it first!" where what they really are saying is "We're behind schedule and are trying not to look stupid, so we'll release half of the stuff first to subs, and then to everyone else when we're actually done, and play it off like we meant to do that!"

 

We get operations and flashpoints so infrequently that they desperately have to tout hard modes and nightmare modes as "hey! new content!!!" when those modes would be included in a release for most MMOs with dungeon challenge levels.

 

We haven't gotten much of a story since Makeb that isn't FP or Ops or the Oricon daily area, so really nothing based on the core of the game - non-FP/Op/Daily adventuring via story quests.

 

In other words, there's been a lot of fail going on.

 

That doesn't mean Bioware hasn't gotten some things right, or that when they finally get stuff released, it isn't entertaining. But the problem is, they do so much that's WRONG, it makes it hard to enjoy what they do RIGHT.

 

 

So I have a suggestion. One that I know will be ignored, maybe scoffed at by players, but maybe its something that can help Bioware get its act together.

 

A seasonal static Cycle.

 

What do I mean?

 

Spring: PvP and GSF Updates

Summer: Release of New Operations with full Nightmare Modes ready to go from launch

Fall: New Features Updates (like GSF, GSH)

Winter: Planetary Expansion and Level Increase, and batch 2 of New Operations (fewer than the summer release, themed with the Planetary Expansion)

 

The point is, you ditch the 8 or 9 week cadences for 13 week cadences. However, you have 4 completely separate teams working on each season. What this really means is that team has a full calendar year plus a few weeks of give within the season to accomplish what that seasonal update set out to do.

 

The final thing to tie it all together is to have a 5th team dedicated to 2 things:

 

1) releasing SM and HM Flashpoints

2) creating an ongoing story, 1 republic, 1 Empire, that is quest based like the class stories (but per faction), that leads people from the last expansion in the Winter season, through the fall out and then crosses over and leads into the following winter expansion. These updates would be released every 8 weeks with a couple of stories, and perhaps a pertinent Tactical or HM flashpoint to the story.

 

This would give bored players something to do.

 

None of this, meanwhile, should affect the usual PvP seasons, which would go on independently.

 

 

The idea here is to let the players know what to expect, and have a degree of quality control in terms of keeping the team honest on deliverables. It also means no more of the lame *** overhyping of half-finished content - you get some time, and release it all at the same time.

 

I admittedly don't know how Bioware has things structured, how they have their staff set up, etc. Then again, anyone who would get on their high horse and say "yeah, that's right!" doesn't know either.

 

So this is just an idea to help Bioware get its crap together. Because by God, they need to.

[arunav]

They don't have the staff at BW Austin to do what you've outlined.

 

SWTOR isn't that high a priority for EA.

 

For example, I'm sure the upcoming open-world SW game that the CEO of EA mentioned in a recent interview is a much higher priority for the company than this game (alongside many other titles and genres).

 

Though SWTOR is profitable, EA still sees this game as a "miss." To them, capital is simply better spent elsewhere.

Edited June 30, 2014 by arunav

[Hebruixe]

They don't have the staff at BW Austin to do what you've outlined.

 

SWTOR isn't that high a priority for EA.

 

For example, I'm sure the upcoming open-world SW game that the CEO of EA mentioned in a recent interview is a much higher priority for the company than this game (alongside many other titles and genres).

 

Though SWTOR is profitable, EA still sees this game as a "miss." To them, capital is simply better spent elsewhere.

 

This makes me so sad. I know it's true, but I don't want to believe it.

[arunav]

This makes me so sad. I know it's true, but I don't want to believe it.

 

 

The story-based MMO doesn't have a market to support it, even in a well-crafted Star Wars setting.

 

For fans of this game, it's unfortunate, but the principle blame lies with the MMO audience that ditched the game in the first few months, deciding not to even try playing through all the great stories and other content they skipped. BW made mistakes as well, especially the lack of a group finder and opening too many servers, but there was still enough in the original release and first two updates to give them some time to adjust. It didn't happen, though, likely because MMO players simply aren't in this genre for a BW-style story.

 

After being subbed since January 2012, I plan to simply take breaks from the game and come back later, when substantial updates have been released. After playing through all the stories and pretty much most of what the game has to offer, I've learned to accept what I think is a fantastic game from BW isn't going to continue in the way I and probably most of all the other long-time subscribers wished it would.

 

There just aren't enough of us to justify the cost to EA.

Edited June 30, 2014 by arunav

[Reno_Tarshil]

I will echo others here.

 

It is a solid idea but as has been said I simply believe there isn't enough of a budget or staff that can produce that schedule.

 

But then again I don't work at Bioware so I can't possibly know what's going on there to make a proper accurate assessment on things behind the scenes.

[BuriDogshin]

... I'm sure the upcoming open-world SW game that the CEO of EA mentioned in a recent interview is a much higher priority for the company than this game.

 

And perhaps, when that game comes out, I will play it instead. Time will tell.

 

At some point, rebooting SWTOR may make more sense than continuing to refine and expand it.

Nothing wrong with that, it's the nature of the video game industry.

[ZionHalcyon]

I will echo others here.

 

It is a solid idea but as has been said I simply believe there isn't enough of a budget or staff that can produce that schedule.

 

But then again I don't work at Bioware so I can't possibly know what's going on there to make a proper accurate assessment on things behind the scenes.

 

The thing of it is, the Cartel Market is making money. But there's been zero evidence of any of the profits being refunneled into the game.

 

The whole thing might just be exactly as it seems - EA is simply milking the property with the intent to just bleed the people dry with the CM until they recoup their 3m investment and then when the sub base dwindles to the point where its more costly to maintain even with the CM, they'll shut it down.

 

That's my fear, and there's been nothing to dissuade me from that. There's going to be a huge red herring from that on the horizon too - the next "makeb sized expansion" will likely have 3 planets, 1 reb, 1 imp, and 1 both. It will likely be touted and taken up by apologists as "See, they made something new!!!"

 

However, the sad reality is those planets in question have been known about for quite a while, since Torhead originally posted that thing we're not supposed to talk about . In fact, Torhead had pretty much called every release we've had this whole time, all the way back in 2012., minus some changes to some of the finer details.

 

It's not 3.0, but what comes after that has me truly curious and concerned. Because 3.0 will mark the very last of what Torhead mentioned. Also, there seems to be very little coming out via people who do the thing we're not supposed to talk about, which some postulated Bioware has gotten better about hiding their tracks in patches, but it could be something else: they simply don't have anything past that point, because 3.0 will be the last of what the old staff had in development and they simply don't have the staff to make anything new of consequence.

 

I'll thoroughly enjoy 3.0, knowing what it is, and also knowing that the writing is potentially on the wall, and that after 3.0, it could make the lack of solid updates we've endured so far look like Hanukah by comparison.

[RobNightfall]

The story-based MMO doesn't have a market to support it, even in a well-crafted Star Wars setting.

 

For fans of this game, it's unfortunate, but the principle blame lies with the MMO audience that ditched the game in the first few months, deciding not to even try playing through all the great stories and other content they skipped. BW made mistakes as well, especially the lack of a group finder and opening too many servers, but there was still enough in the original release and first two updates to give them some time to adjust. It didn't happen, though, likely because MMO players simply aren't in this genre for a BW-style story.

 

After being subbed since January 2012, I plan to simply take breaks from the game and come back later, when substantial updates have been released. After playing through all the stories and pretty much most of what the game has to offer, I've learned to accept what I think is a fantastic game from BW isn't going to continue in the way I and probably most of all the other long-time subscribers wished it would.

 

There just aren't enough of us to justify the cost to EA.

 

This wasn't a failure of the customer. It was a failure of EA/BW to understand their market. Even now I don't play this game like an MMO, and I like MMOs. I also like story-driven RPGs, which is what this game really is. As you say, most MMO fans do not want a story-driven RPG, especially at the expense of a) game performance (the engine is still awful), b) multiplayer experience, and c) end game content. EA/BW did not understand their market, and they failed to listen to concerns that were brought to their attention by beta testers. This game offers the greatest single player experience of any MMO I have ever played, and I fully expect it to remain a great single player game. It's too bad they didn't make this KOTOR 3 with a multiplayer option. They would have made solid money and could have sold the flashpoints and operations as expansion DLCs. And the game's reputation would be in much better shape because it would not be pretending to be what is not.

[Preston_Violent]

 

The thing of it is, the Cartel Market is making money. But there's been zero evidence of any of the profits being refunneled into the game.

 

Exactly. Juiciest example of EA's hypocrisy. SWTOR does make money but this money hardly is re-invested in the game. Seems like EA only allows staff salary and technical maintenance budgets. At this rate, current stuff can only do so much, i.e. recycle, re-purpose and polish what the previous team did. But since they're now pretty much out of even that...it is no surprising playable content patches are so small and rare, people complain, eventually accept the fact that this game is just way too much on milking mode and either take a break or move along, cause nothing to play here.

[DeltaBos]

I just want to highlight the point that a lot of people have been alluding to, this is a corporate decision. I know the DEVS get all the blows and people whining about stuff to them but the truth is, they really don't get much of a say in corporate decisions. They don't choose where the money goes. I'm sure that if they could, they'd use an appropriate amount of funds that THIS GAME HAS GENERATED and funnel it back in to improve the game. It's not their fault that the people who control the cash flows are bleeding this game dry.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Exactly. Juiciest example of EA's hypocrisy. SWTOR does make money but this money hardly is re-invested in the game. Seems like EA only allows staff salary and technical maintenance budgets. At this rate, current stuff can only do so much, i.e. recycle, re-purpose and polish what the previous team did. But since they're now pretty much out of even that...it is no surprising playable content patches are so small and rare, people complain, eventually accept the fact that this game is just way too much on milking mode and either take a break or move along, cause nothing to play here.

 

I seem to remember a lot of people expressing concern about exactly this, myself included when the plan to change to free to play was announced. Real content patches always seem to dry up as the cash some content rolls in like a tidal wave.

 

Creative design and fresh content always takes a back seat to quick cash grabs. Not even the first time I've seen it happen but hey, I told you so.

[Aries_cz]

The whole thing might just be exactly as it seems - EA is simply milking the property with the intent to just bleed the people dry with the CM until they recoup their 3m investment and then when the sub base dwindles to the point where its more costly to maintain even with the CM, they'll shut it down.

 

Yeah, that investment was already recouped many months ago (something like 6 months after launch, IIRC), whatever profit the game makes now is pure profit. So that assumption is just wrong.

 

Real content patches always seem to dry up as the cash some content rolls in like a tidal wave.

Creative design and fresh content always takes a back seat to quick cash grabs. Not even the first time I've seen it happen but hey, I told you so.

 

Making models and skins are easier to make than scripting and putting together new game mode, zone or planet. That is universal truth in all game design. Why should the team responsible for making models stop and twiddle their thumbs while scripting is still going on?

[Lord_of_Mu]

Yeah, that investment was already recouped many months ago (something like 6 months after launch, IIRC), whatever profit the game makes now is pure profit. So that assumption is just wrong.

 

 

 

Making models and skins are easier to make than scripting and putting together new game mode, zone or planet. That is universal truth in all game design. Why should the team responsible for making models stop and twiddle their thumbs while scripting is still going on?

 

Oh I'm sure they have plenty of models to work on. Though that scripting might take less time with maybe more people working on it? It's not like the studio reduced their staff or anything.

[OddballEasyEight]

It's not like the studio reduced their staff or anything.

 

Oh, you mean like pretty much every MMO game out there does after the initial launch?

[Preston_Violent]

I seem to remember a lot of people expressing concern about exactly this, myself included when the plan to change to free to play was announced. Real content patches always seem to dry up as the cash some content rolls in like a tidal wave.

 

Creative design and fresh content always takes a back seat to quick cash grabs. Not even the first time I've seen it happen but hey, I told you so.

 

Very much so. I actually kinda envy people who still haven't seen all class stories because they're in for some great stuff

 

But complaints and whining aside (which have proven to be useless due to the reasons mentioned earlier), Bioware is capable of creating amazing mixes of genres, such as first-person shooter + rpg. Mass Effect is a brilliant example of that. As SWTOR is a blend of solo rpg game developed in a mmo environment. From good (trooper, consular, bounty hunter) to awesome stories (imperial agent, jedi knight) mixed what one would expect in mmo. Undoubtedly success story-wise which wasn't appreciated enough by an average mmo player who levels one char or two and demands like 1 new ops per months cause he's bored...and who can blame them when in a typical mmo you get sh*t fun quests but apparently tons of super-awesome pvp and high-end pve experience...

So to face the reality, it seems all most can do is be thankful for the unique experience, for 8 cool star wars stories (apart from Force Unleashed 1 & 2, there hasn't been much as of late) and move on.

And BW better announce either the confirmation of that "future of swtor" article or a new mmo quick

Edited June 30, 2014 by Preston_Violent

[Aries_cz]

Oh I'm sure they have plenty of models to work on. Though that scripting might take less time with maybe more people working on it? It's not like the studio reduced their staff or anything.

 

People who are good at 3D modeling and drawing textures are usually horrible at coding (and vice versa). Also there is a certain limit where placing more programmers at any given task equals slower work, as they literally get in each other's way. And many of the staff were either fired or transferred to different projects few months after the game launched (which was longer than in most MMOs, where people are let go when the product launches)

 

Models and Textures are one of the first thing that are created, and then people have to put them together to form worlds, apply suitable AI routines for mobs, etc. And then it must all be throughly tested, fix any bugs, test again, etc.

Things in Cartel Market are pretty much only 3D models with textures, and receive minimal testing and QA (as we can plainly see when new items are bugged on certain specific player models that weren't tested)

[aeterno]

There is a valid point in the OP but it's buried deep under hysteria and needles "embellishing".

 

When will people realise piling on half truths isn't helping them to get points across but harms it.

 

Hard to take anything seriously when the 1st paragraph is flatly factually incorrect - unlike GSF GSH seems to be "feature complete" for early access, a result of the push back.

Sets the tone for how the entire post after that reads. Mostly with rolling up eyes & U mad lol.

Edited June 30, 2014 by aeterno

[Icestar]

Mostly with rolling up eyes & U mad lol.

 

It is a frustration that is shared with many players, myself included.

 

Lets hope they do the stronghold patch right and communicate with us regarding 3.0

Edited June 30, 2014 by Icestar

[Nomaad]

10/10 for your post op, it's too bad EA does not share our passion for OUR game.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

The story-based MMO doesn't have a market to support it, even in a well-crafted Star Wars setting.

 

For fans of this game, it's unfortunate, but the principle blame lies with the MMO audience that ditched the game in the first few months, deciding not to even try playing through all the great stories and other content they skipped. BW made mistakes as well, especially the lack of a group finder and opening too many servers, but there was still enough in the original release and first two updates to give them some time to adjust. It didn't happen, though, likely because MMO players simply aren't in this genre for a BW-style story.

 

After being subbed since January 2012, I plan to simply take breaks from the game and come back later, when substantial updates have been released. After playing through all the stories and pretty much most of what the game has to offer, I've learned to accept what I think is a fantastic game from BW isn't going to continue in the way I and probably most of all the other long-time subscribers wished it would.

 

There just aren't enough of us to justify the cost to EA.

MMO'ers don't want to play an MMO skinned with a singleplayer setting.

[Reno_Tarshil]

MMO'ers don't want to play an MMO skinned with a singleplayer setting.

 

I'm an MMO'er and I don't mind the MMO with a Singleplayer setting.

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

I'm an MMO'er and I don't mind the MMO with a Singleplayer setting.

Welcome to the minority.

[Elite-Defender]

MMO'ers don't want to play an MMO skinned with a singleplayer setting.

 

/Agree.

 

Single player games are for...well for offline games. An mmo is a game that should first and foremost focus on its multiplayer aspect. SWTOR did okay for grouping through the story and having dialogue options, but in reality the majority of mmo players dont watch every single cutscene, read every single quest, lorebook or whatever. They want that stuff for single player games. SWTOR had so much potential but it flopped.

 

If SWTOR is to survive for longer it needs to start focusing on multiplayer content. Theres no doubt the majority of people who played swtor spacebarred one point or another.

 

For most the need to level up and play with your friends exceeds the need to sit there and watch stories.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Elite-Defender

[Icestar]

Welcome to the minority.

 

He is not a minority, the setting in this game is awesome with the story.

 

When players left when SWTOR launched it was not because it was bad up to level 50 it was that there were no useful endgame content.

 

Now we are frustrated because we get recycled content and tons of support for the cartel market.

 

We want new content, like all other MMOs give their players.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Welcome to the minority.

 

I'm not in a minority though. You might be however.