XiamaraSimi Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 As someone who likes to unlock sets for mix and match purposes, I'm glad I held off on buying a lot of the new one as I originally had intended. Just bought one box this time, after reading this thread, uncertain if I will buy any of the next set in case they do more playing around like they did with this one. (There were enough items that looked interesting to me in the next set that I was going to do a hypercrate but after all this... think I'll pass... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 As it stands now... they deceived by omission of information that they are introducing a large departure from their norms for Cartel Packs. I don't disagree that they should have mentioned it, but to say they "deceived" us is a bit hyperbolic. The assumption they'd be the same is where the players made the mistake, not Bioware. There was a pattern established with 'traditional' cartel packs...not "event" packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal Kinda fun to witness isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 The amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal I never said I threatened to un-sub if they don't do what I want. I said it caused me doubts about the future of the game and to whether or not it was worth my time and money to keep paying. I told them I didn't think it was the smartest thing to do. Never once have I tried to extort my sub to get what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apanbest Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 the amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal ↑↑↑↑↑ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 /Agree. In the broader context of the game as a whole... the two issues with this pack (drop rate disparity + 4-5x unlock costs in Collections) are small. And, it's not IMO that the two issues exist...but rather that they represent a significant departure from prior pack in terms of drop disparity and collections costs with ZERO ADVANCE (or even post patch) COMMUNICATIONS by Bioware. That is the real issue here.... and since they waffled on it when we bug reported the issues last week..... they made it worse from a trust standpoint. First it was...."looking into it", followed by "will be fixed in 2.8.1" followed by "working as intended, so we will just be relabeling tool tips and icons and also embargo the pack with 2.8.1 All they had to do was to note in the patch notes that they were "deliberately making LARGE variable drop rates in sets AND announce the new unlock costs. There would be some grumbling from some players as well as the ever popular "they are just milking us with Cartel content" hyperbole.....but at least all sincere players would know what they were getting into with this pack and avoid it if they are not willing to accept the prices and drop rates. As it stands now... they deceived by omission of information that they are introducing a large departure from their norms for Cartel Packs. That is what Reno is really trying to illustrate with this thread topic I think. The fact that they are immediately embargoing the pack in 2.8.1 is telling IMO that they know they released junk here, with no easy way to remedy the mistake. They are now in damage control... and it's reactive rather then proactive. Proactive would have been to disclose the changes in the patch notes. Reactive is to declare them "as intended" and then withdrawing them from sale in the next patch. Keep in mind.. we have a long standing issue with tool-tips lacking ANY information as to unlock costs in Collections, until the player equips a full set of expensive gear to find a surprise in the unlock price. Surprise = lacking precedent over the last year and a half of Cartel Pack releases. won't disagree with the sentiment, I think there is some damage control and I would be they are looking at a lot of these posts, especially from those of us who have been on their side for along time and are now admitting that something has changed. I don't think they have a clear path to a good outcome and embargoing these quickly will not be a bad result in the end. There may be some damage control going on, and I think going forward there maybe some "lessons learned" communication especially when it comes to their cash cows. In the end this will be a popular set of items and a popular event that did not go quite as well as planned. They will try to address any issues and prevent them in the future. I think calling a virtual mulligan is probably the best, admitting fault open them to even worse behavior than just letting it slide. I would also not dismiss some "additions" coming out in 2.9 and strongholds that will try to smooth things over. I also won't rule out seeing these released again "sooner" than later with "fixed" drop rates or some sort of vendor. As for the unlock cost, i can't say. If they truly expect them to be at the same rate as most high end rare mounts yet be common drops for a limited embargoed item, IDK. If they never show up again for the life of the game, maybe 600CC isn't such a horrible price for an unlock 3 years from now on a random alt. Maybe offering a higher priced "legacy unlock" where it not only unlocks for all current toons, but all future toons and unlocks all items emotes rather than having to pick/choose individual ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) The amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal They were warned, They did not listen. We were the kooks, haters. Where oh where is Shylock when he is need. Oh sweet Nero fiddle us a dirge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVWLd-dQVGY Edited June 19, 2014 by Taorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Sure, try to remember that next time something ING not near and dear to you but is to others takes a ding. *** is wrong with you? You reply with the exact same response when I clarify why he was wrong in saying it THIS TIME, but not at other times? You are just trolling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) I never said I threatened to un-sub if they don't do what I want. I said it caused me doubts about the future of the game and to whether or not it was worth my time and money to keep paying. I told them I didn't think it was the smartest thing to do. Never once have I tried to extort my sub to get what I want. It wasn't you who I was talking about Edited June 19, 2014 by tanerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 It wasn't you who I was talking about My apologies, I assumed you meant me since I made the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) The amount of hypocrisy going on in the forum is really eye opening. The guy, who just yesterday told me "it is not the end of the world" threatens to unsub if they don't do what he says. Moreover, he also claims this issue is really important while the ones we brought in the past were not. Real objective. The lady we all know, who told people to quit instead of complaining in the past, writes numerous complaining posts, instead of just unsubbing. This is just unreal I assume you are talking about me? And I didn't "threaten" to unsub if they don't "do as I say"... I just said that if these are the new prices, I don't see myself renewing my sub. It's not a threat, it's a statement of discontent. One I would usually respond to with "go ahead. I hope you enjoy whatever game you move on to". And that's all there is to it. I never claimed this issue was more important than any other. I just claimed that this issue was handled very poorly and I expected better. But I know what kind of person you are, so I'll leave it at that. Ps. This is not the end of the world either. Edited June 19, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't disagree that they should have mentioned it, but to say they "deceived" us is a bit hyperbolic. The assumption they'd be the same is where the players made the mistake, not Bioware. There was a pattern established with 'traditional' cartel packs...not "event" packs. I must have hit my head pretty hard. I see Andrayh criticizing the game and TUX offering defense. I need to lie down because right now I'm in topsy turvy town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I agree Reno and support your thoughts on this. I've been finding the unlocking prices ridiculous this last while, and I'm just refusing to unlock anything. Sad thing is, if they were reasonable, I would unlock a bunch of stuff, and they would make money, but the greed is simply out of control now. I've never had much faith in this company, so I can't say it's been shaken. All I can say, is that I'm not surprised. I know you're more than fair with these people, so for you to say that there is a problem, there obviously is one. I won't be buying any more packs and I certainly won't be unlocking anything, it's just too greedy. It's been a very long time since I've won something in a pack that I've wanted...I've been buying the things I want from others on the GTN. Only thing I was really into the packs for was the reputation cards, to finish out my reputation, but those are pretty poor these days, and I for one am not going to spring on packs to get loads of 'jawa junk'. They're pretty much scheming how to give us as little as possible for the max amount of money in my thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebruixe Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 /signed. This broke my trust in this game and this company. And no, those of you who claim the company was milking its customers were not "right all along". The previous prices were not milking the customers. They were pretty fair for cosmetic items. And the unlock prices were pretty fair too. But this was not fair. See I always felt like I was being milked. I distrusted Bioware from the start. My loyalty to SWTOR stems from my respect and affection for the original developers, the creative minds who wrote the class stories and painted the star wars universe to life. So I am not disappointed or horrified to see the money hungry idiots at Bioware pull another fast one. We've always been cattle to them and the milking is going to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I guess this is our 60$ monocle episode lol. Quick BW leak some strongholds information, you wanna redirect attention asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I assume you are talking about me? And I didn't "threaten" to unsub if they don't "do as I say"... I just said that if these are the new prices, I don't see myself renewing my sub. It's not a threat, it's a statement of discontent. One I would usually respond to with "go ahead. I hope you enjoy whatever game you move on to". And that's all there is to it. I never claimed this issue was more important than any other. I just claimed that this issue was handled very poorly and I expected better. But I know what kind of person you are, so I'll leave it at that. Ps. This is not the end of the world either. Has anyone asked the all important question yet? "Can I have your stuff? " ROFLMAO On topic tho...... I never buy the cartel packs from the CM. I always buy the item I want either directly from the CM or off the GTN and then unlock them in collections. Now after seeing some of the outrageous unlock prices, I won't be doing that again either any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undying-Rage Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Ironic that they now complain about it, isn't it? The blind defenders are hypocrites. Pure and simple. Edited June 19, 2014 by Undying-Rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 @ Undying-Rage, I asked everyone to please keep their responses civil and polite, why must you be the only one who has to be rude and insulting of others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Boycott the CM and force them to divert resources away from it and back to actual content in order to retain subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 @ Undying-Rage, I asked everyone to please keep their responses civil and polite, why must you be the only one who has to be rude and insulting of others? He might be acting rudely, but you have to admit he's got a point. I don't care about CM in the slightest, but I feel your pain and am not going to tell you to stop QQing about it, or to just unsub if you're unsatisfied. You know, those same things that critics of the game usually get told on the forums by apologists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 He might be acting rudely, but you have to admit he's got a point. I don't care about CM in the slightest, but I feel your pain and am not going to tell you to stop QQing about it, or to just unsub if you're unsatisfied. You know, those same things that critics of the game usually get told on the forums by apologists? Point or no point I made it clear in my post that I wanted it to be civil and polite and he couldn't do that? @ I apologize Joe, It slipped past my watching of thread trying to keep up with everyone. I'll PM Oddball about it since he and I are friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Has anyone asked the all important question yet? "Can I have your stuff? " ROFLMAO On topic tho...... I never buy the cartel packs from the CM. I always buy the item I want either directly from the CM or off the GTN and then unlock them in collections. Now after seeing some of the outrageous unlock prices, I won't be doing that again either any time soon. All of my stuff is bound to me and since I never sit of credits for long, I spend them. So I wouldn't have stuff to give you if I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 @ Undying-Rage, I asked everyone to please keep their responses civil and polite, why must you be the only one who has to be rude and insulting of others? Most threads are a lot more civil if you have a good ignore list. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Most threads are a lot more civil if you have a good ignore list. Just sayin'. I choose not to put anyone on ignore because it messes up conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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