Broken.

[Darth_Wicked]

The solution to what I see as the current problem is as follows.....

Publicly state from this day forward that any release of this type that deviates from the norm with respect to packs will have the particulars announced prior to the release.

 

Also state that from this day forward they will make doubly sure that the proper rarity is enabled in the item tooltip, and the collection costs will be listed for each item prior to sale.

 

This is the only sensible solution to the current problem IMO.

 

^^ Hear, hear.

[ghoul_drool]

The solution to what I see as the current problem is as follows.....

Publicly state from this day forward that any release of this type that deviates from the norm with respect to packs will have the particulars announced prior to the release.

 

Also state that from this day forward they will make doubly sure that the proper rarity is enabled in the item tooltip, and the collection costs will be listed for each item prior to sale.

 

This is the only sensible solution to the current problem IMO.

 

Completely fair/

[DarkSaberMaster]

I completely understand WHY you're upset...you have every right to be.

 

What I dislike is how THIS is the one issue that has so many traditional "defenders" up in arms. THIS is a 100% optional and completely VOLUNTARY purchase, that has ZERO impact on anyone's ability to enjoy the game.

 

When Bioware removed Ilum, they cheered and made posts hoping PvPers would leave the game. When Bioware changed all our 50 PvP gear to remove Expertise, they laughed at those of us who complained. When Bioware removed 8v8 ranked WZ's, they antagonized the PvPers. When PvPers complain about the lack of WZ maps, they declare that this is a PvE game. When PvEers complain about the boredom they're going through now, they mock them. No matter WHO complained before this, they defended Bioware and chastised the player...and suddenly, on some 100% fluff freaking item, they get upset? I DO NOT GET IT!

 

Don't like it? Don't buy it. It doesn't impact my gameplay at all!!!! Not even a tiny bit. ZERO!

 

I agree with their outrage, they should be upset...they were taken advantage of...but they never do the same for anyone else. Unlike them, I think THEY matter too and their issue is MY issue because WE are the community, no matter what we like to do individually.

 

Greatest post on the forum to date. Well said Tux.

[NightEngine]

The solution to what I see as the current problem is as follows.....

Publicly state from this day forward that any release of this type that deviates from the norm with respect to packs will have the particulars announced prior to the release.

 

Also state that from this day forward they will make doubly sure that the proper rarity is enabled in the item tooltip, and the collection costs will be listed for each item prior to sale.

 

This is the only sensible solution to the current problem IMO.

 

While that would be sensible and, indeed, polite, there is only a problem insofar as people believe they deserve to be treated like VIPs. There is nothing immoral or shady about Bioware acting to alter prices without warning as they see fit. This is well within their authority as per the ToS. Complaining has paid off here but only just.

 

The onus is still on the customer to accept this reality or go elsewhere.

 

Fortunately Bioware claims they've listened and learned. If Bioware was being as immoral and shady as everyone thinks they wouln't run damage control at all. Even in this case, not enough players would up and quit to make their displeasure known. A handful of people on the forum is misrepresentative of the player base.

[TUXs]

THE CORE ISSUE ----> They did not communicate such a significant change as we are seeing here with players.

Fine, they didn't tell you first, but BIG DEAL! They show you the price BEFORE you unlock it. Don't like the price? Don't pay it. Nobody was forced or tricked into unlocking anything. If YOU assumed it was a static price, that's on you.

[Darth_Wicked]

Fine, they didn't tell you first, but BIG DEAL! They show you the price BEFORE you unlock it. Don't like the price? Don't pay it. Nobody was forced or tricked into unlocking anything. If YOU assumed it was a static price, that's on you.

 

You do realize the same can be said for us, who've been asking for ages now for Bioware to release more info and content in a more timely fashion, right?

 

They're NOT forced to divulge anything. They're NOT forced to respect their own timetables or even cater to your assumptions.

 

They do so on their own volition in order to retain players, whether they're subs, preferred or F2P.

 

I know you're having your fun at the expense of those guys - and gals - who whitewash or downplay whatever criticism is addressed towards the game or Bioware but seriously...

Edited June 23, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[BuriDogshin]

You do realize the same can be said for us, who've been asking for ages now for Bioware to release more info and content in a more timely fashion, right?

Not sure who you think "us" are, but I just take the game as it comes. But then, I understand complex SW development, in which the first 90% of the coding takes the first 90% of the total estimated time to do, and the last 10% take the remaining 90%.

 

I have plenty of other entertainment options I can pursue if I don't happen to be in the mood for the current content, no matter how old or new it is. SWTOR is still a good value for my subscription dollars.

[TUXs]

You do realize the same can be said for us, who've been asking for ages now for Bioware to release more info and content in a more timely fashion, right?

 

They're NOT forced to divulge anything. They're NOT forced to respect their own timetables or even cater to your assumptions.

 

They do so on their own volition in order to retain players, whether they're subs, preferred or F2P.

 

I know you're having your fun at the expense of those guys - and gals - who whitewash or downplay whatever criticism is addressed towards the game or Bioware but seriously...

Not at all the same thing.

 

Asking for information about what they plan to do in the future is meant to excite and retain players - to keep people excited about what's coming. It's a POSITIVE thing for them to do on every level!

 

Divulging a price increase doesn't please anyone.

 

I'm not having fun either - but I will point out the hypocrisy. I'd rather everyone be happy Darth...why on earth would I want anything less?

[Darth_Wicked]

Not at all the same thing.

 

Asking for information about what they plan to do in the future is meant to excite and retain players - to keep people excited about what's coming. It's a POSITIVE thing for them to do on every level!

 

Divulging a price increase doesn't please anyone.

 

You misunderstand.

 

As I said, it comes down to assumptions.

 

On one side, you have the people who came to use the CM extensively and assumed that prices and drop ratios would not change dramatically, overnight.

 

Such was not the case.

 

People disagreed with Bioware's stance on this and made their voices be heard. In this case, Bioware actually acknowledged the criticism.

 

How is the above any different from those who'd wish to see their doubts and qualms being addressed, as far as more content is concerned?

 

I'm not having fun either - but I will point out the hypocrisy. I'd rather everyone be happy Darth...why on earth would I want anything less?

 

I just find myself actually agreeing with Andryah and yet you persist in making it sound like... She's somehow wrong. I just don't get it.

 

Again, people made assumptions based upon that which they got in the past. I find that absolutely legit. Midway, Bioware chose to alter the deal and treat its player base like guinea pigs.

 

People started to go Force Scream and Choke at Bioware and they caved in. Marvelous.

 

I only wish they'd did the same with the stuff I find pertinent.

[DOHboy]

I completely understand WHY you're upset...you have every right to be.

 

What I dislike is how THIS is the one issue that has so many traditional "defenders" up in arms. THIS is a 100% optional and completely VOLUNTARY purchase, that has ZERO impact on anyone's ability to enjoy the game.

 

When Bioware removed Ilum, they cheered and made posts hoping PvPers would leave the game. When Bioware changed all our 50 PvP gear to remove Expertise, they laughed at those of us who complained. When Bioware removed 8v8 ranked WZ's, they antagonized the PvPers. When PvPers complain about the lack of WZ maps, they declare that this is a PvE game. When PvEers complain about the boredom they're going through now, they mock them. No matter WHO complained before this, they defended Bioware and chastised the player...and suddenly, on some 100% fluff freaking item, they get upset? I DO NOT GET IT!

 

Don't like it? Don't buy it. It doesn't impact my gameplay at all!!!! Not even a tiny bit. ZERO!

 

I agree with their outrage, they should be upset...they were taken advantage of...but they never do the same for anyone else. Unlike them, I think THEY matter too and their issue is MY issue because WE are the community, no matter what we like to do individually.

 

Just getting caught back up and wanted to toss my opinion where it isn't needed.

 

Why I don't necessarily discount your opinion on hypocrisy and pointing it out. I think the differences are subtle when comparing us "defenders" who now are complaining. It isn't about communication or lack there of, or "don't like it don't buy it". Its subtle but bear with me and see if I can explain what I see as the issue.

 

For most parts major changes/deviations have been communicated and "tested" well in advance and people have known they were coming. If they are game breaking and enough to push you over the edge so be it, door is over there ---->. What most people tend to get flamed about is the constant "they are not making content in exchange for milking customers on the CM" "the CM stuff looks like crap QQ we want more content not fluff" " they only patch things if it involves the CM, worst company EVER!!" at which point point out it is free choice, pack contents are separate from the development team and thus they do not impact each other. However, this is not a hypocritical statement with regards to current situation. These were stealth change, on top of a "bug". This is what most people have complaints about, not so much the 'our fluff is broken" its that the changes were not communicated. With every other change/release, changes are usually communicated (bugged or not). These were not. Add in the "bug" that something that was "rare" was marked as common, and things that were common were VERY common you start to think that perhaps something is amiss. Bugs happen, people understand that, its the communication that people are upset about.

 

At which point you can say "Packs are gambling thus never know what you are going to get so don't waste your time" "random is random" again, I think this is where the perception of hypocrisy is mostly coming from. However, had they mentioned that the "common items" were actual supposed to be rare I think that's a fair point and just let us know. Unfortunately there are two "minor" issues that tend to blow up into a major one (nothing major ever goes wrong, typically they are cascading failures). You have the "non-communicated" changes to the drop rates, on top of the 'non-communicated bug" regarding the expected rarity, combined with the "well if they are common, why are they costing so much CC to unlock".

 

Is there a bit of hypocrisy maybe in the latter with "unlocks' but again, its more about the lack of communication that has most people upset. I am 'dissapointed" that this came about, I'm not going to toss it back in their face and rub their nose in it (doesn't solve anything"), nor am I going to sit back and pretend nothing happened.

 

But the "Hypocrisy" cries are a bit unfounded. The complaint isn't about "bugs/broken QQ they changed it" its about the communication. If people logged in and suddenly PVP was removed, not telling anyone we would probably stand there with you that it was a poor move.

 

Its not that we "defend" BW on everything they do, we "defend" against unrealistic expectations, unrealistic behavior, and gibberish/nonsense spewed just because they can.

 

/wall o text

[TUXs]

Just getting caught back up and wanted to toss my opinion where it isn't needed.

 

Why I don't necessarily discount your opinion on hypocrisy and pointing it out.

 

You have the "non-communicated" changes to the drop rates, on top of the 'non-communicated bug" regarding the expected rarity, combined with the "well if they are common, why are they costing so much CC to unlock".

 

Is there a bit of hypocrisy maybe in the latter with "unlocks' but again, its more about the lack of communication that has most people upset.

 

But the "Hypocrisy" cries are a bit unfounded.

 

Its not that we "defend" BW on everything they do, we "defend" against unrealistic expectations, unrealistic behavior, and gibberish/nonsense spewed just because they can.

 

/wall o text

 

Yeah...all I read in your reply is how YOUR whining is justified and other peoples isn't. YOUR issue is REAL and worthy, where nobody else's is. Everyone else is unreasonable, but you somehow aren't.

[Joesixxpack]

But the "Hypocrisy" cries are a bit unfounded. The complaint isn't about "bugs/broken QQ they changed it" its about the communication. If people logged in and suddenly PVP was removed, not telling anyone we would probably stand there with you that it was a poor move.

 

Its not that we "defend" BW on everything they do, we "defend" against unrealistic expectations, unrealistic behavior, and gibberish/nonsense spewed just because they can.

 

/wall o text

 

 

Nah. What you define as realistic or unrealistic is as baseless as everyone else's opinion. Why? Because you don't work at BW and even if you did you probably wouldn't have a fully informed view to speak from. Your last line is worth pity and laughter. Self-appointed video game forum mommy? *** ? hahahahahahaha please tell me you're joking

Edited June 23, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[DOHboy]

Yeah...all I read in your reply is how YOUR whining is justified and other peoples isn't. YOUR issue is REAL and worthy, where nobody else's is. Everyone else is unreasonable, but you somehow aren't.

 

see I'm not actually whining, was pointing out that those complaining are more about the lack of communication than anything.

 

If they had said "here is what is going to happen" we would probably all shut up and live with it, with some feedback on changes if necessary. But that ontop of the "bug" regarding how they are represented is another issue.

 

Like I said, if they suddenly turned off PVP flags and made everything PVE, we would be right there supporting you, in lack of communication and poor decision making.

 

We don't sit here and defend simply to play devils advocate and for the sake of arguing. ITs not a "your arguments are invalid, mine are not".

 

We understand there is a bug (with the identification as "rare') thats not got people upset, bugs happen. We are not bashing the company claiming OMG WORST BUG EVER and WHY CANT YOU PROGRAM.

 

IT was the bug, ontop of the steath change that cause us concern. They admitted to it, and probably jumping down their throats a bit much at times.

 

I just think you are a bit eager to jump out and point "see, see I told you so" and claiming people are now hypocrites with out understanding what the argument really is.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Yeah...all I read in your reply is how YOUR whining is justified and other peoples isn't. YOUR issue is REAL and worthy, where nobody else's is. Everyone else is unreasonable, but you somehow aren't.

 

Another gem from Tuxs. Get em, bruh.

[Darth_Wicked]

The more you guys go around bickering, trying to determine who has greater cause to cry foul, the more people laugh back at Bioware's HQ. Edited June 23, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[TUXs]

On one side, you have the people who came to use the CM extensively and assumed that prices and drop ratios would not change dramatically, overnight.

It was not changed overnight - it was a new pack entirely. Be honest in how you describe it.

 

People disagreed with Bioware's stance on this and made their voices be heard. In this case, Bioware actually acknowledged the criticism.

 

How is the above any different from those who'd wish to see their doubts and qualms being addressed, as far as more content is concerned?

I'm glad they did. I support them just as I do anyone else.

 

I just find myself actually agreeing with Andryah and yet you persist in making it sound like... She's somehow wrong. I just don't get it.

Agree with him all ya like...I don't care if our opinions differ. I simply find the hypocrisy astounding enough to note!!!

 

Again, people made assumptions based upon that which they got in the past. I find that absolutely legit. Midway, Bioware chose to alter the deal and treat its player base like guinea pigs.

There was no prior "deal" that was altered. NONE! You simply made wrong assumptions just as I have with things like Ilum, new Operations, new WZ's, new FPs...I've expected more based on their many promises of "faster" and "moar" content since they went F2P...and I was wrong...just as you were for assuming CM prices were static.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Cherry picking and generalizing in the same post. Come on man you can do better than that.

 

What was cherry picked and what was generalized?

[Januaria]

The more you guys go around bickering, trying to determine who has greater cause to cry foul, the more people laugh back at Bioware's HQ.

 

Do you think that laughter comes with interminable loading screens?

 

[TUXs]

see I'm not actually whining, was pointing out that those complaining are more about the lack of communication than anything.

 

Of course you're not...your whining is different. THIS they should communicate about (even though it specifically tells you BEFORE you unlock it how much it is), but those people trying to get information and communication about the game itself are whiners.

[errant_knight]

So...this thread has devolved to fighting tooth and nail about where each other stand on the right-to-complain/hypocrite scale? Cause that's all I'm seeing. There might have been more for a second there, but I knocked it clean out of my head when I facepalmed just now. Edited June 23, 2014 by errant_knight

[TUXs]

So...this thread has devolved to fighting tooth and nail about where each other stand on the right-to-complain/hypocrite scale? Cause that's all I'm seeing. There might have been more, but I knocked it clean out of my head when I facepalmed just now.

No no no...you don't get it...they're not whining the same way others whine...theirs is different. Theirs is justified.

[Darth_Wicked]

It was not changed overnight - it was a new pack entirely. Be honest in how you describe it.

 

You're the one who's being dishonest.

 

As I mentioned repeatedly(!!!) already, people have been buying packs from the CM for some time now. Obviously, some assumptions were made.

 

Some of those assumptions - I presume - included the fact that drop ratio for different shipments or packs was even, if not identical, not to mention the CC price for unlocking armor sets, weapons, etc etc.

 

Overnight - and yes, it was overnight(!!!) - Bioware chose to alter the deal without informing no one, since they were deliberately testing the waters to see if people would buy into the new drop ratio and unlock prices. They didn't.

 

People cried foul and Bioware acknowledged the issue, which is why future packs will be more in line with the ones seen in the past.

 

Again, someone is being dishonest here and right now, it's not me, Bioware or the other people you're attacking.

 

I'm glad they did. I support them just as I do anyone else.

 

You haven't done anything else other than rubbing it in their faces.

 

Agree with him all ya like...I don't care if our opinions differ. I simply find the hypocrisy astounding enough to note!!!

 

So your solution is... To point out their hypocrisy until the end of times, instead of actually expecting them to understand your PoV from hence forth?

 

Again, someone, somewhere in Bioware's HQ is laughing out loud no doubt.

 

There was no prior "deal" that was altered. NONE! You simply made wrong assumptions just as I have with things like Ilum, new Operations, new WZ's, new FPs...I've expected more based on their many promises of "faster" and "moar" content since they went F2P...and I was wrong...just as you were for assuming CM prices were static.

 

It's a figure of speech.

 

On another thread, you criticized a user who sounded "ridiculously literal", something which I agree with. Now you're doing the EXACT same. Ironic.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Andryah]

The solution to what I see as the current problem is as follows.....

Publicly state from this day forward that any release of this type that deviates from the norm with respect to packs will have the particulars announced prior to the release.

 

Also state that from this day forward they will make doubly sure that the proper rarity is enabled in the item tooltip, and the collection costs will be listed for each item prior to sale.

 

This is the only sensible solution to the current problem IMO.

 

Both fair and necessary IMO. From my perspective, 90% of this issue is about their dodgy communications on the two issues....NOT the actual issues themselves.

 

It's their game and they are free to adjust, modify, add, remove content as they see fit. By the same token, being open about it and communicating the changes for how they handle Cartel Pack content is necessary.

 

What they did here, and have declared as "working as intended" deserved clear concise communication as part of the patch notes. Why? Because they made notable changes with this pack that basically blew away players understanding of how pack drop rates and unlocks work/cost.

 

Again.. they are free to do it if they feel it is the right business move. Just please communicate it at patch release (I don't even care if they give advance notice at all, just note it in the patch notes).

 

If they had noted the change as part of their patch notes...... all anyone would have ever heard from me personally is ----> pushback on anyone that complains about the change...because it was in the patch notes and they chose not to read them and adjust their game play accordingly.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Andryah

[Reno_Tarshil]

Of course you're not...your whining is different. THIS they should communicate about (even though it specifically tells you BEFORE you unlock it how much it is), but those people trying to get information and communication about the game itself are whiners.

 

TUXs, speaking only for myself and no one else. If they had come forth before the pack launched and explained their changes to us, this thread wouldn't have existed. Instead would have been a feedback thread and everything will be peachy keen.

 

But since they didn't and I was told after they treated it like it was a bug and not intended is what I am offended by.

[Joesixxpack]

I did my own analysis before I asked and I did not reach the same conclusion as you. That is why I asked.

 

You asked a fair question. The problem is that 99% of the time I'm too disinterested in expanding on my posts to bother.