TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 And that's a MMORPG how ? Multiple people roleplaying builders of castles, cities, whatever. What's your criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Multiple people roleplaying builders of castles, cities, whatever. What's your criteria? Building castles is not role playing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Building castles is not role playing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game He's incapable of building a castle or fighting "creepers" in real life...he most clearly was playing the role of a builder/killer/hunter/gatherer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Building castles is not role playing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game http://herocraftonline.com/main/ Looks like an MMORPG to me, complete with cash shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) I would agree that Minecraft is a sandbox environment that can be played as a RPG. It can also be played as a PvP Arena game, 4X game, single player survival game, art studio and probably just about any other style game you want. Heck, my son spent a good chunk of yesterday building an "arcade game" on one of his servers so that now he can log into to Minecraft to play an arcade game. (Very meta.) This does not classify Minecraft itself as an MMORPG, really. It's a bit bigger and more flexible than that. It's a true sandbox which some people choose to play as an MMO some times. I think it's popularity rises largely out of the fact that it's so flexible. Calling it one specific type is pigeonholing it, to be honest. So no, it's not really comparable to TOR or any other MMO out there. Edited June 19, 2014 by Brewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) He's incapable of building a castle or fighting "creepers" in real life...he most clearly was playing the role of a builder/killer/hunter/gatherer. I can role play myself as Willie Wonka while playing Candy Crush Saga. That does not make it a role-playing game. To back up on the hyperbole a bit, when people talk RPG elements to a game they are always talking about character or unit progression. FPS with RPG elements means your character gains new/improved abilities throughout the course of the game. In a RTS with RPG elements some of your units gain improved stats or new abilities as they become battle veterans. Stating you can role play something in a game that you are unable to do in RL would qualify almost every game as RPG. If I play Plants Vs Zombies, but live in a densely populated high rise city, does that mean I am role-playing a farmer? In a tower defense game am I role-playing a military commander? Edited June 19, 2014 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I have to wonder why it's not advertised as an MMO, if it's an MMO. Oh, that's right, because it's not? But hey, you could host NWNs servers too. In fact, I have my server on this PC right now and can put it online, so NWN was an MMO too, despite all the denial of that very claim almost 20 years ago. I mean, if I want to define MMO any way that's convenient for the sake of argument, the only thing I'm missing is Massive, right? It most definitely was an MORPG. So I guess BioWare and Obsidian were both wrong? After all, I can, and have put a server for NWN and NWN2 online. So if, as is being proposed here, the only thing needed to be considered an MMO is being able to play online with others, every game with an online component would be an MMO, are you hearing me, ME 3 MP? However, the MMO market, according the logic in this topic just expanded exponentially to include a lot of games that will have the game developers that created them really surprised, including the developers of Minecraft, all so some former SWG player can express his grief about how his great game closed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I can role play myself as Willie Wonka while playing Candy Crush Saga. That does not make it a role-playing game. I'm glad you have no issues doing that, but that's cosplay...not roleplay. While playing Minecraft, he assumes a role in-game. What you do is...uh...strange...to me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm glad you have no issues doing that, but that's cosplay...not roleplay. While playing Minecraft, he assumes a role in-game. What you do is...uh...strange...to me at least. Multiple people roleplaying builders of castles, cities, whatever. What's your criteria? So um, stacking Lego bricks and claiming to be an architect and stonemason is so different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So um, stacking Lego bricks and claiming to be an architect and stonemason is so different? No different than pretending to be a lightsaber wielding Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) No different than pretending to be a lightsaber wielding Sith Lord. You are absolutely right! All of that is role-playing in the broader sense. Only the Sith Lord gains powers ("levels up") through the course of the game and therefore fits what is considered a "Role-Playing Game" or a game with role-playing game elements. To flip the discussion around, many (if not most) players in SWTOR do not role-play. We have numerous alts and play them as we feel with no thought to personality or consistency. This does not change the fact that is is a role-playing game. Edited June 19, 2014 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You are absolutely right! All of that is role-playing in the broader sense. Only the Sith Lord gains powers ("levels up") through the course of the game and therefore fits what is considered a "Role-Playing Game" or a game with role-playing game elements. And in Minecraft, you level with your collection of different materials. In order to craft a diamond sword, you need to work for it. Leveling up isn't restricted to numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) And in Minecraft, you level with your collection of different materials. In order to craft a diamond sword, you need to work for it. Leveling up isn't restricted to numbers. It also has a mode where you collect resources. Does that mean it is an RTS? Gaining access to new items in the meta-game means it has some RPG elements as well is its RTS elements and FPS elements. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a brilliant true sandbox game that blends elements to your recipe of the different genres. It really is a category of its own which is why drawing a comparison to a highly structured game like SWTOR is fairly pointless. Comparisons to SWG, EVE, ESO, Wildstar, WOW, etc are vaild and can be useful. Not so much with Minecraft. MInecraft reminds of of when the first SimCity was released. The reviewers loved it, but said it was more of a software toy than a game. Edited June 19, 2014 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I have a hard time understanding why people come here using games like Minecraft as an example when in fact they are paying to play this game. Apparently Minecraft is so great that you're playing SWTOR?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenK Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 once again the fact is that if swtor went with an open world and sandbox system like we told them too we wouldn't have this mess of a dying game. really at this point its great to see gamers turning on things like this that are anti-consumer and demanding a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 once again the fact is that if swtor went with an open world and sandbox system like we told them too we wouldn't have this mess of a dying game. really at this point its great to see gamers turning on things like this that are anti-consumer and demanding a change. That isn't a fact at all. That is your opinion for which you have absolutely no proof. That's what makes it an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 once again the fact is that if swtor went with an open world and sandbox system like we told them too we wouldn't have this mess of a dying game. really at this point its great to see gamers turning on things like this that are anti-consumer and demanding a change. so you must think WS is a mess of a dying game as well then... since its traditional themepark. oh if only carbine had listened to you and just made it sandbox.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenK Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 so you must think WS is a mess of a dying game as well then... since its traditional themepark. oh if only carbine had listened to you and just made it sandbox.. wildstar has player housing, warplots, you can make your character look however you want no set size or face styles, tons of ways to make your class custom to how you like to play it. you can even make your own custom vehicle. does tor have any of that? nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) wildstar has player housing, warplots, you can make your character look however you want no set size or face styles, tons of ways to make your class custom to how you like to play it. you can even make your own custom vehicle. does tor have any of that? nope. Methinks someone is confused by the whole sandbox vs themepark discussion. Customization of aesthetic items is not the defining characteristic of sandbox games, it is a secondary factor. Being able to permanently change/alter the world structure is what sandbox is about. Wildstar has a few more sandbox features than SWTOR, but it is themepark through and through. Just as the sandbox posterchild EVE has some themepark features like dungeons with end bosses. Still a sandbox. Edited June 19, 2014 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpscjpsc Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Everything is role play in a broad sense, in all games you play a role. In true RPGs though you are given a specific role to play (warrior, monk etc) and a story to go with it (which you may or may not influence). BF4 for example is not a game where you role play as a soldier, it's more of a sport where twitch muscles, reflexes and razer mice reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Minecraft or "Mincecraft" while popular has been stated isnt as good economy wise as SWTOR. Multiplayer-games vary from the classic RTS with multiplayer to a full Sandbox MMO, the thing is sandbox while good in theory is very hard to put it to practice, player run economy and content for that you need some very good tools, loot, weapons, armor, metals, etc and even then players will find ways to break the sand-box. I definetly think Sandbox days are over finally, people like to be protagonists in some measure and most like to win in a game, a game made so very few people actually win = is not a good business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) The true next MMO winner will be themed park sand box. Because first you need to guide people into your game, especially the first hundreds hours, then you have to let them more with your game. Edited June 19, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 once again the fact is that if swtor went with an open world and sandbox system like we told them too we wouldn't have this mess of a dying game. really at this point its great to see gamers turning on things like this that are anti-consumer and demanding a change. You crack me up. There was an open world sandbox Star Wars MMORPG. It failed and is no more. I think the right lesson was learned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Methinks someone is confused by the whole sandbox vs themepark discussion. Customization of aesthetic items is not the defining characteristic of sandbox games, it is a secondary factor. Being able to permanently change/alter the world structure is what sandbox is about. Wildstar has a few more sandbox features than SWTOR, but it is themepark through and through. Just as the sandbox posterchild EVE has some themepark features like dungeons with end bosses. Still a sandbox. I wouldn't disagree generally. I believe sandbox is generally defined as where players make the content. The upcoming housing system, if it has open decorating, could be looked at as a term I call "sandboxy". And as you mentioned, being able to change the game environment, and by my definition "make your own content" qualifies. Other items this game has that is sandboxy at the moment.....GTN, Player appearance (the CM provided outfits), open world PVP, player announced events and contests. To my knowledge that is it. The reason one could consider these things "sandboxy" in nature is because players make the content, meaning that they can be minigames driven by players, not by directed content. The argument pre-launch, as far as I remember, was not to make the game sandbox entirely....but instead to warn them that the game was almost entirely themepark but did not have the kind of holding power and content to hold themepark players, so it needed some real repeatable minigames. It did not seem to have enough. The personal starships was one place where they could have provided personal housing similar to games like EQ and SWG, but they either chose not to do so or the game did not have the capability. I tend to think it was the latter. I think swoop racing, Pazaak as well as the upcoming GS would be good "sandboxy" features to add to the game and bring it in line with some players expectations perhaps. I think the Eve and WS mentions are good examples. As you said...WS is mainly themepark with sandbox elements, Eve the other way around. I tend to think the former is a good goal for this game. Edited June 20, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You crack me up. There was an open world sandbox Star Wars MMORPG. It failed and is no more. I think the right lesson was learned there. Technically it failed after adding themepark elements, perhaps one could argue that change is what killed it. And Eve stands as an example of a game that was mostly sandbox and not only does it survive...it thrives. The lesson I think is to learn here is there needs to be a mix. If you do sandbox you should have some themepark elements from launch, not as added elements later. This game could have benefited from more sandbox-like features in before launch IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts