This is just unacceptable.

[LordArtemis]

No, it was not. It was childish and uninformed. That person obviously has no experience anywhere near software development.

 

Things like this happen. No matter how much you test, these things happen from time to time. It is not always easy to find the cause, either... especially if nothing unusual happens during testing. It's frustrating, yes, but a reality of working with technology. People would do well to support the devs rather than just cursing them every time some little thing happens. I mean, do you think they WANT these things to happen? No. They beat themselves up over stuff like this. *****s like the poster you replied to do nothing to help. All they do is create ill-will over something that the coders are, undoubtedly, working hard to get corrected.

 

So, no, it was definitely not spot on. Please do not buy into this garbage.

 

I think the bugs have created enough ill-will on their own. Though I most certainly would not post my concerns in the manner of the poster I believe you are speaking of, and I do not feel the issues are the "end of times" as some seem to feel (perhaps it is for them, I will not judge), I still would rather folks vents and remain then remain silent and walk.

[AlienEyeTX]

I think the bugs have created enough ill-will on their own. Though I most certainly would not post my concerns in the manner of the poster I believe you are speaking of, and I do not feel the issues are the "end of times" as some seem to feel (perhaps it is for them, I will not judge), I still would rather folks vents and remain then remain silent and walk.

 

Why not just be patient and stay?

[Darth_Wicked]

Why not just be patient and stay?

 

Where's the reward in being patient, when people seek instant gratification nowadays no matter where you go?

[LordArtemis]

Why not just be patient and stay?

 

Well, naturally that would be the optimal response one would hope for

[TUXs]

Why not just be patient and stay?

OMG...exactly how addicted to this game do you think people are that they'd accept that as a solution to this debacle? This is entertainment people are paying for...if they can't log in, can't stay logged in, can't load while logged in (etc) and all the game is right now is frustrating, why should they remain patient rather than express their frustration?

[Darth_Wicked]

OMG...exactly how addicted to this game do you think people are that they'd accept that as a solution to this debacle? This is entertainment people are paying for...if they can't log in, can't stay logged in, can't load while logged in (etc) and all the game is right now is frustrating, why should they remain patient rather than express their frustration?

 

Some could express their frustration, while being patient simultaneously. No harm throwing a joke or two while at it though...

 

However, seldom rare are the people who express their frustration in a rather concise and articulate fashion, same way there are those who are rather tolerant of an opinion who clashes with theirs.

[AlienEyeTX]

OMG...exactly how addicted to this game do you think people are that they'd accept that as a solution to this debacle? This is entertainment people are paying for...if they can't log in, can't stay logged in, can't load while logged in (etc) and all the game is right now is frustrating, why should they remain patient rather than express their frustration?

 

Sarcasm?

 

Report problem and wait. That's really all you can do. Yelling about it won't get it fixed any quicker. It just makes people look like impatient Deebags.

 

If my car breaks, I take it to the shop to be repaired. Does it help matters if I stand in dealership yelling about the people working on the assembly line for making this obviously defective product? No. I let them know about the problem and wait from them to fix it.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Why not just be patient and stay?

 

I've been here since launch and being patient and staying has been my attitude all along. Mostly because no other game has interested me during the life of SWTOR. That's changed with the release of Wildstar and I'm starting to find my game time split between the two. Fortunately I didn't have a scheduled raid last night, but if I had and we couldn't go because of bugs it would have meant another Wildstar night for me. I could "do something different" as you said(think it was you?), but I already have 9 lvl 55s and am not really interested in leveling any more...dailies are a mindless grind, and pvp has been less interesting of late as several players have either moved on or stopped queuing as often. There's not that many options that interest me personally outside of operations here anymore.

[LordArtemis]

While I certainly indicated that patience would be the response I personally would hope for, I in no way intended to mean that was the right or only response.

 

Again, I do not intend to disparage those that wish to express their frustration over this event. I only ask that those that intend to leave based on this event reconsider that decision.

 

I would prefer to see you stay.

[ImmortalLowlife]

It's not unacceptable.....just terribly inconvenient. After every major patch, there were bugs and issues. They generally seem to get them fixed within a week. It's only been a day. Now if we're all still having the same issues this time next week, then THAT would be unacceptable and all the venom being spewed would be warranted. But let's at least give the devs a chance to actually figure out what caused it and correct it.

[Joesixxpack]

OMG...exactly how addicted to this game do you think people are that they'd accept that as a solution to this debacle? This is entertainment people are paying for...if they can't log in, can't stay logged in, can't load while logged in (etc) and all the game is right now is frustrating, why should they remain patient rather than express their frustration?

 

Good luck explaining the bigger picture to siloed nerds.

[Cleev]

No, it was not. It was childish and uninformed. That person obviously has no experience anywhere near software development.

 

Things like this happen. No matter how much you test, these things happen from time to time. It is not always easy to find the cause, either... especially if nothing unusual happens during testing. It's frustrating, yes, but a reality of working with technology. People would do well to support the devs rather than just cursing them every time some little thing happens. I mean, do you think they WANT these things to happen? No. They beat themselves up over stuff like this. *****s like the poster you replied to do nothing to help. All they do is create ill-will over something that the coders are, undoubtedly, working hard to get corrected.

 

So, no, it was definitely not spot on. Please do not buy into this garbage.

 

Let me reply in the exact same manner:

 

Your post is ridiculous and shows, why MMOs games are getting more and more badly done. You obviously have absolutely no idea how to do QA or how to treat customers, which should be common knowledge.

Things like this surely happen. No matter how much you test, these things happen from time to time. Some bugs influencing the players experience in a light manner are understandable. A massively bugloaded patch destroying 80%-100% of the players experience is absolutely unacceptable, and shows that it was not tested well enough. Always supporting won't help no one, sometimes you need a slap in the face to realize, that you are not doing things right. And sometimes criticism is the best support you can give. Let me repeat that people like you who remain silent, super patient and overly supportive are the people who are destroying the genre.

That post that you were talking absolutely helps: It shows that your customers are not happy and you need to get your **** together ASAP to keep him paying and liking your product.

Let's face the icecold fact here: This was a terrible job, and this shouldn't be even considered being supported by subs money. If you want the customers money, you have to get him happy and wanting to come back and stay. This patch surely didn't managed it in any sense. You can't tell me that you find this mess okay and would understand, if this same mess happens again in the next patch. If you do, you are lying to me and to yourself, simple as that.

 

On a personal note, this is especially frustating for me, because I reactivated my sub just a couple of days before the patch and I'm certainly not happy that I will have to wait probably a week until things are playable again.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Cleev

[Tsillah]

It's not unacceptable.....just terribly inconvenient. After every major patch, there were bugs and issues. They generally seem to get them fixed within a week. It's only been a day. Now if we're all still having the same issues this time next week, then THAT would be unacceptable and all the venom being spewed would be warranted. But let's at least give the devs a chance to actually figure out what caused it and correct it.

 

Although I generally agree with your sentiment here, it is the first time the bugs actually mean that I won't play the game for at least 3 days straight. Generally the bugs were an inconvenience I could live with or work around. However, not being able to log in or being kicked from the game within minutes when I do get to log in are bit more of an inconvenience and especially when it lasts for 3 days or possibly longer.

 

There are definitely worse things in life and I don't have numbers on how many people can actually still play at this moment to make any real conclusions about how widespread the issues are that really completely prevent people from playing, but from where I am sitting this is the worst bug yet and when you have bugs that disallow people from logging in, let alone playing, 3 days is a long time.

[Andryah]

Let me reply in the exact same manner:

 

Your post is ridiculous and shows, why MMOs games are getting more and more badly done. You obviously have absolutely no idea how to do QA or how to treat customers, which should be common knowledge.

Things like this surely happen. No matter how much you test, these things happen from time to time. Some bugs influencing the players experience in a light manner are understandable. A massively bugloaded patch destroying 80%-100% of the players experience is absolutely unacceptable, and shows that it was not tested well enough. Always supporting won't help no one, sometimes you need a slap in the face to realize, that you are not doing things right. And sometimes criticism is the best support you can give. Let me repeat that people like you who remain silent, super patient and overly supportive are the people who are destroying the genre.

That post that you were talking absolutely helps: It shows that your customers are not happy and you need to get your **** together ASAP to keep him paying and liking your product.

Let's face the icecold fact here: This was a terrible job, and this shouldn't be even considered being supported by subs money. If you want the customers money, you have to get him happy and wanting to come back and stay. This patch surely didn't managed it in any sense. You can't tell me that you find this mess okay and would understand, if this same mess happens again in the next patch. If you do, you are lying to me and to yourself, simple as that.

 

On a personal note, this is especially frustating for me, because I reactivated my sub just a couple of days before the patch and I'm certainly not happy that I will have to wait probably a week until things are playable again.

 

Interesting lecture.

 

It changes nothing of course. Why? Because as a player... nowhere.. anywhere... does ANY MMO company provide guarantee, warranty, or compensation to customers for bugs, internet connectivity issues, server availability, etc. But don't take my word for it... go read every MMO companies ToS/EULA. AND, by way of contrast.... most MMO companies when they experience significant post patch issues, server issues, etc of any notable length of time (typically we are talking days here.. not minutes or hours), they will grant good will awards of additional sub days....but even this is not something you the player are entitled to.... which is why it falls under the "good will" category.

 

And let's expand on the concept of "good will" just bit.. in the spirit of bidirectionality. As players we pay to access the game (in whatever state it presents itself). If we are happy with the experience.... then most of us continue to play. If we are unhappy about the experience (such as this 2.8) but enjoy the game... then most of us.... as a gesture of good will, understand that @#$% happens with MMOs and will be patient until the devs can squash the bug(s).

 

Now....If we are chronically unhappy with the experience... then it's a much deeper dissatisfaction and no single bug or patch is reasonable justification to walk from the game. No, it's more likely pretense of some sort. In reality.... a player with such a feeling about the experience... should do themselves a favor and find something else that they do enjoy.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Andryah

[apanbest]

Me personally I can log in just fine a few hours ago, not really in the mood to play really. So I camped in front of the GTN browsing through stuff hoping during this outrage people forgot to put an extra zero on the stuff they're selling. Grab a couple of cheap missions here and there made about 200k on my level 30 toon.

 

But coming back here, been reading through couple of threads in here really make me chuckle. The length people went to defend the developers no matter what, straight away dismissing legitimate complain, name calling and stuff.

 

No wonder EA always get a free pass on any screw up. And i thought all the white knights on WoW forum were bad.

[Sarfux]

I will put my two cents in this thread since I develop games and mmorpgs along with diagnosing computer software etc. Things sometimes get very, very technical and complicated. Sometimes when you fix the one thing you have been trying to fix for ages, it goes ahead and breaks other things. So you can't really 100 percent fix everything all the time. There is always ...something little. They aren't too big of a deal most of the time but just annoyances.

 

It's hard to really determine what it is that could be either malfunctioning, hesitating, the code not being right or things of that nature. Most people on the outside looking in have NO idea what is going on, but they just want their product and want it done right. Sometimes things go wrong with that product and they have to fix it. If it's already in the mainstream and in the hands of the customer, it's even harder to find the fix for it because now the person has it and has to deal with the fixes of what that thing has.

 

When these little bug annoyances happen, it's never the company "omg, they are so lazy!" or "it's intentional, they don't want us to do that". None of that is even on our mind when things go wrong. The biggest thing on our minds is "how can we fix this? and how can we fix this so it doesn't come back?" That is how you look a problem as a developer/programmer/coder. Everything can have thousands of lines of code on top of that "thing" which is causing the problem. It requires more digging, more altering, more figuring out what went wrong when we just implemented the change to fix the other bug. Now, we fixed that other bug and the thing that was working is broken!? What the hell is going on? We didn't even touch that other thing at all!

 

For example. Something could have been in the game

 

"Quick_Travel_CD_Pause 30"

"Quick_Travel_CD_Pause 20"

"Quick_Travel_CD_Pause 10"

 

and somewhere, something got messed up with along the the lines when they added something in the new patch or a file got tweaked. Screwy things happen sometimes to where it now can read

 

"Quick_Travel_CD_Pause 30_ALL"

 

Or something crazy like that. These things just happen sometimes.

 

Another example with the instances. There could be a line that says:

 

"Instance_StartMembers_Include_ALL"

that got changed to

"Instance_StartMembers_Include_PlayerSeparate"

 

It can be anything. It's up to those developers to now see what is wrong within the game so they can fix it.

 

See what I mean? That's what happens a lot of the times with these bugs. They are annoying yes. But I can tell you right away they aren't on a giant "wall of whenever" and then when developers feel like getting to them they will. They are in a category of most crucial first to the not so crucial ones. Yes, it's VERY hard to find out how those crucial ones happen. Like I said, without even touching the last thing you could mess something up just by adding other things onto the game.

 

Dang, that was a long one I just felt the need to tell you guys what goes on most of the time and reassure you. Don't worry, they have people working on it right now and it will be back to normal in less time than you think. No, bugs don't mean the game is dying, or people are leaving, or the game will close it's doors in the next 2 months. None of that will go on. That's just jumping to conclusions. Please don't do that. They are trying to fix this. Have patience. It will be better with time.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Sarfux

[ValeGreiger]

To the people who say unacceptable, you guys don't know what unacceptable is.

 

 

I've had over 10 years of mmo experience and I know several other who have. That means many of us have gone through several games that have had "THE ONE BAD DAY." Swtor fell into that yesterday.

 

Unacceptable? Guess what, I've ACCEPTED IT. Mindblowing, right?

 

Why? Because I'll tell you what is unacceptable: a company that received the bug reports, the complaints of its players the videos, the whooole enchilada and then, and then-get this-

 

THEY.DO.NOTHING.ABOUT.IT.

 

That's right. I've played games where the company just sat on their behinds and either clammed up or simply told the playerbase that until they have a fix, the "ONE BAD DAY" was gonna turn out to be "SEVEN WHOLE DAYS".

 

 

Look at today. Not having major problems as yesterday.

 

So your inability to accept the worst of the worst is simply your inability to cope, accept and believe that Bioware would swoop down on their game and fumigate the living hell out of those bugs.

 

 

And yes, PUN-FREAKIN-INTENDED!

Edited June 12, 2014 by ValeGreiger

[Duskrequim]

I lol..... too anyone who complains about a broken patch... and one that gets fixed fast.... I lived through the Everquest "PATCH"... the one that took servers down for estimated couple hours that ended up like 12... then caused crashed that had to be patched that broke some thing else that had to be patched that had to be patched to fix the previous patch that had to be patched cause that broke another patch... on and on.. for almost 7 straight days of patches... and maybe 1 or 2 hours of play time... yeah that was unaccceptable.. but we as players got over it. WHY?... because the game was the only thing worth playing.... These issues.. they happen... at least its not like it used to be.