lost leadership of my guild?!?!?

[AngelFive]

First of all, problem still remains = it is not "The most over the top reaction yet".

 

 

Or what, i needed to start a new thread and bring your genious quotes as an example over there, not here?

Now, now... well, i don't know. Can you just give me a minute to think about that, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hS_CSbtuaLA#t=4992

...

...

...

...

Nah, frack it. *PEW*

 

The OP ABANDONED his guild.

By the way, i'm really curious about how these CAPS are any better than my colored text, but whatever. Not important.

 

Since you are crashing about metaphors exactly <-----------------------THAT--------------------> much, i've prepared a metphorical question you should really fall in love with.

 

Lets say that all toons in your account becomes availible for about any other player to claim, in case if your sub lapses. Like, you have 20x lvl-60's, and in case if your sub gets lapsed for some time, some other player can claim one/few or all of them, like one per each day of your abscense, with all their gear and etc. Starting from ones you log on less often.

 

That figures?

Do you seriously think everyone in the guild should just wait around hoping he MIGHT come back?

No. I've told that they are free to leave this guild and start a new one without any real need to rob their poor, poor little GM.

And you would've notice that if you were less demagogic and more... mindful.

Also, eat more carrots and blueberry. They are good for the eyes.

Sorry, but the OP isn't Jesus and no one is going to wait around 2,000 years and worship him just because he started some Podunk guild and didn't put any effort into keeping it active. He was an absentee landlord at best.

Please eat at two carrots right now, and please notice already that we are not speaking the King of the Prom elections. We are speaking about MONEY.

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEYMONEYMONEYMONEY.

Oh, wait! He put CREDITS into it! My God! 5,000 credits! (... , ... , ... / ...)

5K? How about 200+ Mils?

Please eat ten more carrots, and a whole bucket of blueberry, and read that part again:

 

1. First, SWTOR is not a girlfriend. Well, at least in my psychological system of axes.
    
    
   
2. When somebody creates a guild and becomes a GM, he pays 5K to do it + 600K to start a guild bank + 1KK for a second one, and so on up to 51KK+, AFAIR.
    
    
   
3. Actually - everything that was brought in the guildbank(s), is a property of guildmaster that he shares with other crew the way he wants to.
   Like, he can completely loot all of these any time and buy himself a new shiny, and you are in no right/position to judge or demand or whatever. Unless that, at least, breaks any promises he gave you...
    
    
   
4. I see that your absolutely awesome and smart message was written before Strongholds/Flagships were released, but AFAIK, they were already announced, so i will still mention that:..
   Typical "Strongholded/Flagshipped" GM spends a fracking load of cash (somewhere between 50K and Over9000KK) to buy/unlock a guild Stronghold(s) and/or a Flagship.
    
    
   
5. Also - the process of assembling a guild and keeping it together takes time and nerves. And these are two of the most important resources we, living meat, have.
   

And I'm not sure what you are implying here announcing that a guild =/= a girlfriend.

Well i'm tired of that carrot joke already, so i will just tell you to re-read your own first message in this thread, where you were actually comparing SWTOR with a girl. -_-

So the guild is MORE real? Or LESS real?

Cool question bro. Well, i never tried to bang an MMO guild (i couldn't actually even imagine something like that), have you?

And if he reminds me of that analogy, it doesn't really matter whether that speaks to you or not. It's irrelevant.

Man, all of that are irrrelevant. Girls, Cars, parties. We are speaking money. MONEY!

If i bought a guild name for 5K, guild bank for 600K, guildship for 50Mils + a lot of decor on top even before i got a first guildmate that is not a toon of mine, this is MY guild, MY bank and MY ship. And if someday i will fall in coma, i want to see all that still MINE when i will get back.

And in this case, i do not really care what will other guildees do. Or, more likely, i will approve any their decisions that aren't related with robbing me. They can start a new guild without me, they could not be willing to get back, i'm fine with that. But the stuff i've claimed and/or bought and/or worked with, must remain MINE.

The only truly amazing thing here is that anyone is defending this chump at all. He got what he deserved. Life moves on, and if you don't choose to playa the game, you no maka the rules. Either participate or get lost.

Nah, the most amazing thing here is you. "We are not some... reader, we are the Writer", right?

Either participate or get lost.

Big words for... you.

Once again, somebody bought a guildship all on his own... That counts as participation?.. Yawn. -_-

 

Again, the question is still open. Let's say somebody created a guild and bought a guildship all on his own. Why the hell should he lose all that to some random sub simply beacuse his sub lapsed for some stupid hour?

Edited January 16, 2015 by AngelFive

[Sounders_Fan]

Again, the question is still open. Let's say somebody created a guild and bought a guildship all on his own. Why the hell should he lose all that to some random sub simply beacuse his sub lapsed for some stupid hour?

 

the credits for guild creation are trivial at best.

 

but let me ask you something about the guild ship. Since the credits to purchase a guild ship, need to be in a guild bank and the bank ledger is only good for what a couple weeks; how do you propose to prove that the entire 50 million credits came from one person? there isn't a tool available to the players that would do this.

[Nommaz]

Completely agreed.

And do not listen to "alternatively adequate" persons around - especially like that guy:

Oh gosh. /facepalm

Ok, let me explain it for alternatively gifted (with highlights, colors and stuff):

 

 

1. First, SWTOR is not a girlfriend. Well, at least in my psychological system of axes.
    
    
   
2. When somebody creates a guild and becomes a GM, he pays 5K to do it + 600K to start a guild bank + 1KK for a second one, and so on up to 51KK+, AFAIR.
    
    
   
3. Actually - everything that was brought in the guildbank(s), is a property of guildmaster that he shares with other crew the way he wants to.
   Like, he can completely loot all of these any time and buy himself a new shiny, and you are in no right/position to judge or demand or whatever. Unless that, at least, breaks any promises he gave you...
    
    
   
4. I see that your absolutely awesome and smart message was written before Strongholds/Flagships were released, but AFAIK, they were already announced, so i will still mention that:..
   Typical "Strongholded/Flagshipped" GM spends a fracking load of cash (somewhere between 50K and Over9000KK) to buy/unlock a guild Stronghold(s) and/or a Flagship.
    
    
   
5. Also - the process of assembling a guild and keeping it together takes time and nerves. And these are two of the most important resources we, living meat, have.
   

 

And now, you are telling that a lose of everything above is fully justified simply because GM can accidentally get his subscription lapsed for a hour?

Sounds like said by a person with negative IQ.

 

His guild is his property. The cash and stuff he spent, or which lays in a banks, is his property. And the guild name is his property, just like his toon names and/or his legacy name - neither more, nor the less.

 

And i do not give a damn that EAware created that stupid rule with losing GM status through getting subscription lapsed. I consider it a very dirty and unfair trick to stimulate people around watch their sub status closely. And if you used that to become a GM, then you are no more than a dirty little thief. Done.

 

And speaking of dirty thiefs,

No. Quality demonstration of you.

 

So, you used the opportunity that was brought to you by ugly and unfair game rules to hijack a guild with a name and crew (ang a banks ) you like, and you forced your previous GM, that poor cheated person, to quit. And from your words, you are not even giving him opportunity to keep the original guild name, which was his original idea, to himself.

And, what is much more fascinating, you are telling about it left and right, all so shiny and proud.

 

/golfclap

Congrats. Someone so abominable and despicable is a truly rare met. Sort of achievment.

 

In that case, someone more honorable would leave the guild by himself, instead of forcing the actual GM do it.

But i take it that you have a much more... *cough* practical understanding of clear conscience.

 

Gonna tell you only one more thing: i really wish you to be surrounded by people like you for the whole your lifetime. And if you will ever stumble and fall - you will be looted, raped, mauled, killed, and probably even eaten.

 

... Amen

 

I cant be bothered editing all that, but you are wrong.

First as you said it take time and nerves, you forgot effort, the GM was gone, who's time effort and nerves kept it together?.

A guild without a GM falls apart easily.

Second you have to actually not log on for over a month, nothing to do with subs, a F2P player can be a GM (unless that's changed in the last few months).

So unless the original GM even bothered to log on he got what he deserved after abandoning the guild.

[DallianWyrd]

Hello there everyone, I hope that my participation will be welcomed since I think I can relate to both parties. So my understanding is this: a person lost his GM status because he couldn’t log into his guild for an extended period of time. The problem is that the guild he created was essentially funded by only one man. And because of that, he feels incline to call it “his own”.

 

On one hand, I feel sorry for the owner having all that “money” wasted. I hope that him and the current GM can discuss and find a middle ground or an alternative solution. Why yes, as someone else pointed out when a guild is created the main creator pays a 5k credit fee, which is nothing but still is his own because there isn’t any “shared pool” type of payment before the implementation of guild banks. Also, everything that was brought in the guildbank(s) is de facto the property of the GM who may or may not choose to give access to the bank and how it is managed.

 

As far as I know, it starts by grouping with other people before having the possibilities to create a guild. Those members have as much a claim as the GM, the only differences is that they have agreed to “follow/elect” this person as their leader. It is only after the act, that the GM can decide “technically” how the guild will proceed. If nothing is said nor done, the default settings are that the GM owns everything. And by own, I mean having the right to use. That’s the policy of the game.

 

On the other hand, I can relate to those that hasn’t got any news of their GM and decided to take matters on their own. That’s good, and I may be in the wrong, but isn't a guild, technically, a group? And therefore, because it has one less member, do we have to abandon it? I think not. Some even may say that NOBODY can “technically” create a guild alone. We have to use workarounds (inviting people then giving them the option to leave) and a group effort which means that group is an essential policy in the game.

 

Besides, I think that everyone will agree on that it takes time, money, presence, motivations and nerves to create, to manage and to keep a guild in the long run, especially in an MMO. So yes, I totally understand why both parties are angry. And yes, you may say that the game policies are not to your likings but it doesn’t make it any less true. And we, as players, have agreed to it by clicking on the “play” button.

 

So here’s my solution if common ground is not achievable. Compare the state of the guild. How many features are unlocked. The former GM has to give to the current GM a “rename guild” consumable in exchange of the sum of all unlocks present at the state of the guild before the leaving act minus 30 days. Don’t count decorations and the money in the guild banks as they are donated, so guild features are: Number of tabs, if there is a Guild Stronghold, if there is a Guild Ship.

[Fidelicatessen]

Bottom line is, if you leave the game and make plans to hand over guild leadership temporarily, this won't be an issue.

 

If you are a guild leader who has a great relationship with their guild, this won't be an issue.

 

It's only an issue if you abandon your guild without any communication and/or if, when you return, the new leader refuses to hand over leadership. If the former guild leader in question had had a good relationship with his guild, they would have gladly handed leadership back.

 

To make this a non-issue in the future (assuming you're one of those folks who feels that you should be able to freely abandon a guild and/or treat them like your personal serfs), start a guild using a random fleet PuG and populate it only with your alts. Why is this such a terrible solution? It seems to fit the needs of the OP and the apologists.

[Brittaany_Banks]

I recently resubscribed to swtor and found that I was no longer the leader of my OWN GUILD.The new leader was another guy in the guild. I sent him a mail message asking for him to give me back my leadership because he/she is offline.i just sent this message minutes ago.that person hasn't came back online yet but I hope he/she doesn't betray me.I trust this person but nonetheless,THIS IS VERY STUPID.

 

People like you infuriate me here's why...

 

You assume you deserve to be leader. Leaders do not abandon their leadership positions. Not without passing authority anyway.

 

You assume you deserve the guild back because you believe it is "your" guild. You initially formed it. Probably bought the guild bank etc therefore because of your "investment" in it you think you own it.

 

Let me be perfectly frank with you. You do not "OWN" that guild. It is not yours. It belongs to everyone within it. They too have invested in it as well either through their own credits, progression raiding, time, helping newbies etc. Their stake in it is no more or less valuable than yours.

 

Before you left if you were a good leader I see the current leader having no issue turning over control of the guild back to you. However, if you weren't then be prepared to be disappointed. Judging by your entitlement complex you've displayed in the OP I'd be willing to bet you DON'T deserve it back.

[AngelFive]

how do you propose to prove that the entire 50 million credits came from one person? there isn't a tool available to the players that would do this.

Guess what?

 

I am

 

not going to

 

"proof"

 

anything

 

at all ;P

 

We are not speaking proofs or whatever you consider to be a "trivial situations" here. We are speaking about about the guys around who actually bought a flagship on their own. Done.

 

Surprised, honey?

 

And there is absolutely no blasted reason why all of their work should be simply giften to a random sub > f2p around. By inventing this "GM ditch rule", EAware kinda tells us:

 

"Ok, here is what we can do with those who will not be bringing us their cash when we want them to. We will simply justify that kind of a robbery, and they will have to keep subbing and logging to maintain what is rightfully theirs. Mwohohohohohohooorrr"

 

And of course, it is nearly impossible to make them change their mind - at least because this rule will always be defended by an army of loosers who would love to "have your stuff" like flagship and such, in this case.

 

Number of people who can do that big deal of cash < number of people who would be happy to rob them.

...With these standart "guild is for the guildees", "prove us that you did it", "we've not elected you to be our King" and all the other possible pathetic excuses...

 

Exactly what are we witnessing in this thread.

 

Oh, there actually are tons of ways to proof it, in case if you are interested in finding out the truth and not an excuse to rob someone. Like:

• If guild got a flagship even before it got a second member...
  
• Here is a FRAPS video of GM, putting 50 mils in GB and buying a flagship...
  
• Here are the whole bunch of weekly FRAPS vids of the GB ledger where you can see GM bringing huge sums over...
  
• Here is a GB with 50 mils, hidden and isolated from being seen or affected by all the other members...
  

And such, but actaully... Since I am the GM, and that I know for sure that I've bought a flagship, there is absolutely no blasted reason why I can be bothered with pathetic demands to proof that I actually have a right to owe what I owe. Catchy?

First as you said it take time and nerves, you forgot effort, the GM was gone, who's time effort and nerves kept it together?.

A guild without a GM falls apart easily.

I was telling it so that you could compare in your mind running a guild and running a toon:

As I've already told to another guy - try to imagine that your alts, your strongholds and/or even all the inventory would be given away to a random person (one from your friend list, for example) as soon as your sub gets lapsed and stays like that for a hour. Or... Like, that someday devs will invent something like second-hand SH market. Like - you are abscent for a few months, you get your SH put on this market, where potential buyer can click a button and get in, and if he'll like it, he will buy it for cartel coins. Actually, why not?

- Blah blah, SH is like a girfriend - if you've abandoned it, don't be surprised that it found a new... guy who owes it now.

- What? No, you will not have it back. Other guy payed for that. Sorry, rules.

- Boo hoo, our server space is not unlimited, we have to manage abandoned strongholds somehow.

- Blah blah, you've agreed with that by pressing the "Play" button.

And so on, and etc etc etcetcetcetc...

Second you have to actually not log on for over a month, nothing to do with subs, a F2P player can be a GM (unless that's changed in the last few months).

So unless the original GM even bothered to log on he got what he deserved after abandoning the guild.

Wrong. And here is the correct info:

• http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6856
  
• http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675746
  

So my understanding is this: a person lost his GM status because he couldn’t log into his guild for an extended period of time. The problem is that the guild he created was essentially funded by only one man. And because of that, he feels incline to call it “his own”.

Thing is, there is obvious and inobvious, logical and weird.

Like, when you become a GM, it is obvious that you can do absolutely anything with this guild. Logically, it feels like being an "admin" of something yours. Like a king of your own realm. And why not to put some cash into something yours? Which will surely make you feel it even more yours.

And then, there is inobvious rule of "ditching a GM" (like, you know, no huge bold red text and such). Which completely breaks all the previous logic.

 

Like - if we are being "democratic" with users, why are we only starting to be like that with a GM abscent for two months or unsubbed for a few hours? Why can't we be like that from a start - like, to let people elect or re-elect GMs as they like?

And if we are not, then how the hell can "admin", a king of his "digital realm", can lose it like this? This is nonsense!

 

On one hand, I feel sorry for the owner having all that “money” wasted.

They are not wasted. They are robbed.

Why yes, as someone else pointed out when a guild is created the main creator pays a 5k credit fee, which is nothing but still is his own because there isn’t any “shared pool” type of payment before the implementation of guild banks.

Tyically, people fill the GB with random crap like low-grade green mats and cheap stuff from packs. Like series something robo legs.

Just for fun, I tried selling them for 2 credits, and noone bought these. Oh, and I forgot the crafting schematics for blue stuff you get from crew missions. Well, at least I've never seen someone bringing gray junk in GB.

No. Most of the time, there is one or several persons, making a main deal of cash. People are only starting to participate for real when it is obvious that the flagship WILL be bought with or without them.

I may be in the wrong, but isn't a guild, technically, a group?

No.

There are no such things as "Group bank", "Group flagship", "Group repair funds" and etc.

Also, if you will remove everyone from a group, it will be disbandoned. If you will kick everyone from a guild, it will be a guild with one member. Oh, and your guildies can't vote to kick you. So, it's clearly not a group. At THIS point. But it awfully is, when you do not log or unsub. And here is where we are stepping in a real stinky confusion. Because that affects MONEY.

And yes, you may say that the game policies are not to your likings but it doesn’t make it any less true. And we, as players, have agreed to it by clicking on the “play” button.

"Likings" are not the case. Current system alows some people to FRACKING ROB others. This is the case.

Oh, and shall we tell that "you've signed up on it by pressing the "Play" button about every single bug or glitch, shall we? Like, your client crashes each 15 minutes? A Hammer Station HM droid boss is glitched and shoots his laser for all the duration of a fight? Your class quest item is bugged and you can't proceed with your storyline?

So shuddup, you agreed with that by clicking the "play" button and also subbing.

Huh?

So here’s my solution if common ground is not achievable. Compare the state of the guild. How many features are unlocked. The former GM has to give to the current GM a “rename guild” consumable in exchange of the sum of all unlocks present at the state of the guild before the leaving act minus 30 days. Don’t count decorations and the money in the guild banks as they are donated, so guild features are: Number of tabs, if there is a Guild Stronghold, if there is a Guild Ship.

So, you are telling me that GM has to PAY for what is rightfully his? That he will lose whatever decorations he donated thinking that the ship will always be his, like the unique 3rd anniversary stuff (vendor is removed now), resource nodes and a slot machines?

No.

I have a much more simple solution. And I will tell it after the next quote.

Bottom line is, if you leave the game and make plans to hand over guild leadership temporarily, this won't be an issue.

 

If you are a guild leader who has a great relationship with their guild, this won't be an issue.

Great. So, I told about the situation when some guy buys a flagship on his own and, logically, wants it to remain his.

And what you exactly sugeest to make it so, is to "lick everyone's buns the way it would be more worthy than 50+ mils of hijacked flagship minus some "collateral hatred" that will surely pop if an usurper will decide to keep the stuff.

You know, I've got this message the day you posted it, and I still don't have any idea of what can I really tell about it.

Can you just leave this thread, please? Because you are simply insulting the whole concepts of common sense and logic and all. To say the least.

 

Oh, and here is the solution I was talking about...

 

Whenever a GM like that will feel like to unsub or disappear for some time, he can kick an entire guild to ensure that his stuff will remain his. Starting from "you have no right, a guild is for the guildies, we MUST have your flagship" whiners.

... Absolutely no money needed.

 

Or, more "democratic", way is to spend his 1'605'000 credits to start a new guild with two guild banks and same rank system. Move the stuff there, move people there, give everybody the flagship keys if possible, list it in public, kick all those who didn't came out in time, send these guys an explanation letters, and finally log off for as long as he'll need to.

 

A shame. Personally, I would feel fine with letting people using my flagship and the stuff I've brought there, like resource nodes and slot machines, I could let them move the ship where they want it to be (like, to create a quick and free travel way to Rishi), but it seems that I am forced to do things in one of these ugly ways.

* * *

Oh, and the way I philosophically see all the situation in this thread, is...

 

One of the main differences between h*mo sapiens and a monkey is an ability of hom* sapiens to use and create the Tools.

 

SWTOR example is: there are those who want their own guildship and there are those who doesn't care (nothing wrong with either). Among those who want, there are those who can use the Tools, and there are those who cannot.

 

Today, here, we are discussing a justification of robbing "those who can" by 'those who cannot", defending their greed with some silly excuses.

Tomorrow we will start running on all fours, and the day after we'll climb back on a palmtrees and start eating bananas, will we?

 

It really feels like that...

 

http://thumbs4.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/360937277107_/VIVA-LA-EVOLUTION-CHE-GUEVARA-Ernesto-Evolucion-Ape.jpg

 

* * *

People like you infuriate me here's why...

Mhm, I care...

You assume you deserve to be leader.

I assume that responding to something requires reading it first.

Actually, the guy wrote it is long gone. Next thing, he never told anything about becoming a "Queen of the Prom" again. His concerns were different. Also, we are no longer really discussing that...

You assume you deserve the guild back because you believe it is "your" guild. You initially formed it. Probably bought the guild bank etc therefore because of your "investment" in it you think you own it.

I created a toon with unique name, i created a guild with unique name. I payed some cash for unlocks, I've bought a stronghold. I've payed some cash for unlocks, I've bough a flagship on my own. My toon is mine, and wow - there are a lot of people telling that my flagship is theirs. I understand why they want to get my flagship (like - hey, I've made the whole stack of cash, and surely I did it for the reason), but my solid proposition is to go and try making that fraking load of creds on their own. Like, without attempts to rob me.

Let me be perfectly frank with you. You do not "OWN" that guild. It is not yours. It belongs to everyone within it.

If I do not "OWN" it and they do, why can I send all of them out with first class "Booot in the Buns Airlines" flight, and why they can't do absolutely anything to stop it?

Before you left if you were a good leader I see the current leader having no issue turning over control of the guild back to you.

Well damn. Now I've got enough of this.

 

Who in the world told you that the new guild master will be someone you elected? Huh?

Here:

• http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6856
  
• http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675746
  

 

Get used to reading, please! Sorry if I disappoint ya, but whole internets are not a studio for your solo performances. Which includes this public forum where other people kinda exist...

 

Also. For one more time - we are NOT discussing a "Queen of a Prom" elections here! If I am abandoning the guild, surely I do not care about everything immaterial like people's love and respect. Surely, I will not be throwing "I has returned, bow to me!" demands left and right as I'll decide to return.

But if I registered this guild with this specific name, if I've bought a guildbanks and a flagship, if I've put a huge load of cash in unlocking and decorating it while being a GM of this guild - I want all that to remain mine. And I have a full moral and logical rights to DEMAND this.

Because all of that is mine.

 

Mine.

 

MINE.

 

MINE!!!!

Edited January 27, 2015 by AngelFive

[Fidelicatessen]

All you've done is convince me that your guild must be a much more enjoyable place without you there to lead it.

 

It's kinda pointless to debate this policy. It's been the policy since day 1 and it's highly unlikely anything about it will change. But your true colors (see what I did there?) sure did shine in this thread.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Guild leader is just that... a leader... not owner. If they aren't there to lead then they are no longer the guild leader. They also relinquish any imaginative "ownership" of any items in the guild back or belonging to the guild. Be it guild stronghold, guild ship, guild bank etc. They are guild items, nor personal items. That is why the tab says "donate to guild," not "donate to guild leader."

 

Today, here, we are discussing a justification of robbing "those who can" by 'those who cannot", defending their greed with some silly excuses.

 

No, we are discussing the transfer of leadership from a player who isn't there to a player who is.

 

Get rid of any imaginative notation that what is in a guildbank or anything else purchased by the guild belongs to the individual guild leader. It does not. That is why it says guild flagship, not "player name" flagship.

 

Like I stated: The guild leader is simply the leader, not owner. In any organization if you are a leader you are susceptible to being replaced (the means by which may differ in this game, though I would prefer more options for how a guild is run). Especially if you are gone for such an extended period that your leadership is deemed nonexistent. Hence, your privilege to lead is deemed nonexistent.

Edited January 27, 2015 by LanceCorporalDan

[Bultitudes_Loke]

My Guild must have sucked with me running it

 

Seriously, what did I just read?! I'm pretty sure it's not robbery if you choose not to resub, or log in for 30 days. Robbery is where someone else sets out to steal things from someone else. And frankly, after reading that... deluge of nonsense, I'm not surprised that whomever is now 'your' guild's leader is refusing to let you back in.

[leehambly]

Guess what?

Because all of that is mine.[/i]

 

Mine.

 

MINE.

 

MINE!!!!

 

Simple fact is... if you want a "personal vanity guild" you should not be inviting others to your vanity guild or leaving others in your guild while you are away from the game.

 

Invite some for creation, pay if you have to, once they've stayed long enough to sort your self out, you kick them.

Invite some others for guildship purchase. pay if you have to, once they've stayed long enough to sort your self out, you kick them.

But don't leave them in your guild after... that's daft, why would you do that?

 

If a guild is an actual functioning guild, then no one OWNS it. You all OWN it. End of.

Harsh and very expensive lesson to learn.

 

And I'm making a stand against "Proof" and "Loosers"... unless we are discussing publishing: proof is a noun, prove is a verb.

You "prove" a "proof", and you "lose" a game due to "loose" game play.

Edited January 27, 2015 by leehambly

[AngelFive]

/sigh

 

You people just don't get it. -_-

 

All you've done is convince me that your guild must be a much more enjoyable place without you there to lead it.

If you were considering joining my guild all this time, you could just stert with asking for, so i could simply tell you "No".

 

I only have two questions.

1. Are you done?
   
2. Will you leave this thread now?
   

... Dooooh ...

It's been the policy since day 1 and it's highly unlikely anything about it will change.

According to "Genesis creation narrative", God created a light and darkness on day 1...

Fortunately for humankind, he wasn't sharing your level of conservatism. Fortunately, devs aren't sharing it either, or there would be no flagships/strongholds at all...

Guild leader is just that... a leader... not owner.

Please explain, how the hell can "not owner" kick everyone out, loot everything and disband the guild he "doesn't owe".

No, we are discussing the transfer of leadership from a player who isn't there to a player who is.

...And I am pretty sure that i know what I asked and what I meant better than you.

deluge of nonsense, I'm not surprised that whomever is now 'your' guild's leader is refusing to let you back in.

Oh, that post brings me such a pain... (happy? ) Oh wait, no. Because nothing like that ever happened with me. Sorry mate, but you just wasted your time.

That is why it says guild flagship, not "player name" flagship.

But your true colors (see what I did there?) sure did shine in this thread.

Alright, i see that something here needs clarification.

 

 

• I want my own, fully functional flagship.
  
• I can pay for that.
  
• Sadly, current situation requires creating a guild. Because I cannot buy a flagship for my legacy. If I could, I would never come here, and I wouldn't even really care about GM reset system.
  
• I want to be a part of active guild. I am a social creature just like everyone else. So, keeping a guild only for my toons... kinda sucks. This is not a solution.
  
• As you can see, I consider my flagship to be my personal stronghold. And I want it to remain my own just like my strongholds does.
  

 

Here is my "true colors". Well, i can admit that I have a bit overgrown ambitions, but since I can make all the way alone without really bothering anyone, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And reasons why I am so concerned with this GM reset system are:

 

 

1. Few times since I've started, I was abandoning SWTOR for 3-6 months, coming back if there's some update or event or stuff. That's the way i go.
   
2. My sub gets lapsed for like each two months, because I don't actually keeping an eye on. If that happens, I am either switching to something else or getting to the terminal to send EAware their cash.
   

 

So, with a current system... If I want to have my own flagship, I have to start a guild. If I want to have my own flagship AND be a part of active guild, then I have to make my guild active. But in this case, I am risking my flagship because of EAware's stupid GM reset rule.

 

Pfffffft.

 

I am really feeling like EAware puts me on some tax. Like if the time and effort I've put into getting enough cash wasn't a price big enough. That sucks. That sucks so much. I simply can't speak all the frustration.

 

I never really kept an eye on my sub status, I never really bothered logging on each day, and I do not want to start acting different.

 

So much confusion only because of one stupid rule. A piece of code that shouldn't be written. I am sitting on these stupid 50+ mils and I am not really sure I should, kinda, press the button and finish what I've started anymore.

Damn you, EAware!

[AngelFive]

Simple fact is... if you want a "personal vanity guild" you should not be inviting others to your vanity guild or leaving others in your guild while you are away from the game.

 

Invite some for creation, pay if you have to, once they've stayed long enough to sort your self out, you kick them.

Invite some others for guildship purchase. pay if you have to, once they've stayed long enough to sort your self out, you kick them.

But don't leave them in your guild after... that's daft, why would you do that?

 

If a guild is an actual functioning guild, then no one OWNS it. You all OWN it. End of.

Harsh and very expensive lesson to learn.

 

And I'm making a stand against "Proof" and "Loosers"... unless we are discussing publishing: proof is a noun, prove is a verb.

You "prove" a "proof", and you "lose" a game due to "loose" game play.

Finally, a voice of reason. )

Sorry, I haven't seen your message while I was writing my previous one.

 

You see... When I was only starting it, I was thinking that I will just find some nice guys and suggest them to stick around if they would like it. I would make someone having about as much permissions as I do, and he would take the leadership. I would be checking the situation time to time, but my idea was that I will not be... Well, a GM in a full meaning of that. I just want my guildship, but I want to have a good company as well.

They would have their separate GB I am not using, and I would have my own. I would not ask them to participate in unlocking it or decorating it or whatever. I can do it by myself.

 

So, that... was... my idea before I've found out about GM reset rule.

You see... To like someone, and to fully trust a month+ of your solid work to someone, are two very different cases.

Not like if I was working on it 24/7, but that flagship cost me. I just cannot allow a possibility of losing it like that.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Please explain, how the hell can "not owner" kick everyone out, loot everything and disband the guild he "doesn't owe".

 

Probably the same way that donate to guild says donate to guild not guild leader. It doesn't go into the leader's personal bank and the gbank doesn't qualify. How can the "owner" get kicked from his own guild after leaving the game for an overly extended period of time. I mean HE OWNS IT RIGHT!?!?!?!

 

...And I am pretty sure that i know what I asked and what I meant better than you.

 

Which question is that? I quoted a statement of yours, not a question. Lol. The point still stands, the discussion is of transfer of leader from a player who isn't here any longer to one who is. Read the title and the OP.

 

Alright, i see that something here needs clarification.

 

 

• I want my own, fully functional flagship.
  
• I can pay for that.
  
• Sadly, current situation requires creating a guild. Because I cannot buy a flagship for my legacy. If I could, I would never come here, and I wouldn't even really care about GM reset system.
  
• I want to be a part of active guild. I am a social creature just like everyone else. So, keeping a guild only for my toons... kinda sucks. This is not a solution.
  
• As you can see, I consider my flagship to be my personal stronghold. And I want it to remain my own just like my strongholds does.
  

 

If that is what you want then go for it. Make a guild with only your accounts in it. Get your guildship. Put and alt as leader. If you forget to cycle login with him then no worries, the guild is of characters tied to your account. Then take your main and whatever alts you wish to be in an active guild and join one. You now have your own guildship on one character, and are able to play with an active guild on all others. All without ever inconveniencing anyone or any false notions of what is/is not yours.

 

I wouldn't mind if they released personal flagships. I mean, they did it for strongholds right? Then you would be free to pursue your interests without the need to work around the system

Edited January 28, 2015 by LanceCorporalDan

[AngelFive]

Probably the same way that donate to guild says donate to guild not guild leader. It doesn't go into the leader's personal bank and the gbank doesn't qualify. How can the "owner" get kicked from his own guild after leaving the game for an overly extended period of time. I mean HE OWNS IT RIGHT!?!?!?!

Highlighted part doesn't make any sense. You told: "GB belongs to the guild and not GM". I asked: how can GM kick everyone out and loot everything if GB and guild are not his property. You are responding with: "GB belongs to the guild and not GM". Absolutely doesn't make any sense at all.

 

And to your question (not highlghted quote part): he cannot be kicked if he'll kick everyone else before leaving. I belive that deffinetely should count.

And by the way, that was almost exactly the same question i keep asking for all my time in this thread.

Which question is that?

Oh, this one:

 

And the facts i will tell you (for the last time already!) are these: GM has a technical access to do absolutely anything in his guild. In real world, such an athority system is being called a monarchy. And your "guild is for the guildees" noble ideal has absolutely nothing to do with that.

What i mean, exactly, is that someday your GM can kick every single one member of his guild out and loot all the banks. And you are absolutely unable to prevent that. I am happy for you if your GM shares your noble ideals, but if he doesn't - someday it just can end up in one big mess.

...

And the question is still open. Let's say somebody created a guild and bought a guildship all on his own. Why the hell should he lose all that to some random sub simply beacuse his sub lapsed for some stupid hour?

Again, the question is still open. Let's say somebody created a guild and bought a guildship all on his own. Why the hell should he lose all that to some random sub simply beacuse his sub lapsed for some stupid hour?

Thing is, there is obvious and inobvious, logical and weird.

Like, when you become a GM, it is obvious that you can do absolutely anything with this guild. Logically, it feels like being an "admin" of something yours. Like a king of your own realm. And why not to put some cash into something yours? Which will surely make you feel it even more yours.

And then, there is inobvious rule of "ditching a GM" (like, you know, no huge bold red text and such). Which completely breaks all the previous logic.

 

Like - if we are being "democratic" with users, why are we only starting to be like that with a GM abscent for two months or unsubbed for a few hours? Why can't we be like that from a start - like, to let people elect or re-elect GMs as they like?

And if we are not, then how the hell can "admin", a king of his "digital realm", can lose it like this? This is nonsense!

... And you've figured out nothing smarter than to ask the same question back to me, and for some reason you did it in some weird << I HAVE YOU NOW >> manner. I have no idea why...

 

So far, you mostly keep repeating stuff - my words, your own words.

So far, all i can really tell ya is to ask if "Polly wants a cracker"...

 

And i still have a confusion:

 

If GM is not an owner, why does he have owner-level permissions? And if he is not, why can he loose his GM rank? Thing is, current system is stupid. It should either or both get more or less democratic. If GM is not an owner, then members should have possibility to elect or re-elect him. If GM is not an owner, he shouldn't risking to lose his rank like that.

If that is what you want then go for it. Make a guild with only your accounts in it. Get your guildship. Put and alt as leader. If you forget to cycle login with him then no worries, the guild is of characters tied to your account. Then take your main and whatever alts you wish to be in an active guild and join one. You now have your own guildship on one character, and are able to play with an active guild on all others. All without ever inconveniencing anyone or any false notions of what is/is not yours.

As I've told already, I am a social creature just like everyone else. Which means that i want to see other people in whatever i consider to be my personal stronghold. In this case, my flagship. That means, i want that all my %flagship_faction% toons to be able to get in my flagship, and i want to be able to send people access keys.

 

I also want all my toons of a %flagship_faction% to recieve a buff from my flagship, but at least this is't really critical. Just... If I have a flagship, of course i want my buff, and there surely is nothing wrong with that.

I don't really know if that is possible yet, because today is the day I am launching my ship and celebrating it with my friends.

 

Well... If I will be able to send an access keys to my friends and other toons without inviting them to the guild, that's fine. Could be done better if not the stupid GM ditch rule, but still not really bad.

I wouldn't mind if they released personal flagships. I mean, they did it for strongholds right? Then you would be free to pursue your interests without the need to work around the system

Sincerely, i doubt they will ever do it. Watch the facts:

 

 

1. Your personal stronghold cannot provide you any buffs.
   
2. Your personal stronghold cannot be used to put a "quick travel" point wherever you want.
   
3. The flagship costs 50 million credits and cannot be bought for cartel coins directly. (AFAIK)
   

 

It looks like devs were trying to keep balance by making flagship really hard to be bought by a single person. Like if the bottom line was - if you want to get a flagship, you have to build up a group of people who really trust each other.

 

Also, they still have that priority travel stuff buyable for cartel coins. And if getting a personal flagship would be somthing really simple, there would be no reason to buy a priority transport perks and their "cooldown debuffs". Speaking of "travel to starship" one, i have no idea why do they still keep it there if player can simply jump to any stronghold availible, and to the ship right after...

Edited January 28, 2015 by AngelFive

[LanceCorporalDan]

Highlighted part doesn't make any sense. You told: "GB belongs to the guild and not GM". I asked: how can GM kick everyone out and loot everything if GB and guild are not his property. You are responding with: "GB belongs to the guild and not GM". Absolutely doesn't make any sense at all.

 

It makes plenty of sense, your failure to see it doesn't devalue anything. The guild leader has those powers because he is the leader, not the owner. Which ties into what comes next...

 

 

And to your question (not highlghted quote part): he cannot be kicked if he'll kick everyone else before leaving. I belive that deffinetely should count.

And by the way, that was almost exactly the same question i keep asking for all my time in this thread.

 

No he cannot, but then he won't have a guild will he? Guild being requiring 4 unique accounts.

 

Oh, this one:

 

 

... And you've figured out nothing smarter than to ask the same question back to me, and for some reason you did it in some weird << I HAVE YOU NOW >> manner. I have no idea why...

 

And i still have a confusion:

 

If GM is not an owner, why does he have owner-level permissions? And if he is not, why can he loose his GM rank?

 

If he was the guild owner, he would indefinitely OWN the guild whether he was gone from the game for 1 day, 1 month or 1 year. The fact that he loses leadership of the guild after being gone for a month is BW saying that it is not his guild to run any longer. And that in best interest for the GUILD, a new leader is selected.

 

You keep saying the same nonsense thinking that it will stick to the wall if you throw it around a lot.

 

I keep stating the same counterpoints. Maybe I'll break it down barney style for you next.

Edited January 29, 2015 by LanceCorporalDan

[AngelFive]

It makes plenty of sense, your failure to see it doesn't devalue anything.

I am not a psychotherapist to understand that. And i see no failure here. Maybe i could, if you've given me at least one good reason to care. For now, i see none.

The guild leader has those powers because he is the leader, not the owner. Which ties into what comes next...

Translation: "GM has owner powers because he is not an owner".

Does Polly want a cracker?

No he cannot, but then he won't have a guild will he? Guild being requiring 4 unique accounts.

Wrong. Go read manuals, keyboard warrior.

If he was the guild owner, he would indefinitely OWN the guild whether he was gone from the game for 1 day, 1 month or 1 year. The fact that he loses leadership of the guild after being gone for a month is BW saying that it is not his guild to run any longer. And that in best interest for the GUILD, a new leader is selected.

He loses nothing if there are noone to autopass GM rank to. And he can make it so, nice and easy.

 

If he is an owner, he doesn't have to do that, but he does.

But if he is not an owner, he shouldn't be able to do such stuff as disbandoning a guild with one single command, and without asking anybody.

Also, guildies do not elect the new GM. EAware code does that. And if this new guy will decide to rob you, you will not stop him.

Let me guess - because he will be "not an owner", right?

You keep saying the same nonsense thinking that it will stick to the wall if you throw it around a lot.

I am not sure what do you mean, but it looks like you've just implied that you have an IQ of the wall.

No objections.

I keep stating the same counterpoints. Maybe I'll break it down barney style for you next.

So, your idea is to keep telling to your opponent that parallel lines can cross until he'll start to believe they do. Cool.

I am already scared.

Go on. But first, i have to ask again - does Polly want a cracker?

 

// My case

 

Well, i've launched a flagship and found out that i cannot send keys to people not in my guild. I can only invite them one by one when both me and them are online. That sucks.

After some thought, i guess that i do not really care how will devs fix that - with reconsidering "GM ditch system", with allowing me to send keys to people not in a guild, with creating some "fav list" where people can put public listed SH/FS's... All of that will work just fine. More or less. Maybe i should just contact them somehow...

 

[emeraldon]

This is pretty much how I picture you, AngelFive.

[Fidelicatessen]

Is it possible to be right AND be a sociopath at the same time?

[AngelFive]

This is pretty much how I picture you, AngelFive.

LOL! Well, and I was just starting to think that I am only wasting my time here.

Yet your picture was worth all that, and ya've put a smile on my face.

Is it possible to be right AND be a sociopath at the same time?

Is it possible to be wrong about everything for the whole life?

 

Oh, and I assume that you've meant me. Well, I can see why do you consder me to be a sociopath. But here is something to think about. Yes, I obviously do not really like most of this thread's posters, but who told you that I treat absolutely everybody like this?

 

* * *

 

I actually have a feeling that this thread had absolutely exhausted itself, yet still I just want to reveal something - like, to close the deal.

So, I love decorating places. I was among first players on my server who actually started running Directive-7 / Battle of Ilum / Kaon Under Siege solo to get decorations. Of course, I am speaking about pre-3.0. Not like it is really an achievment (pretty easy actually, with a fine class for that), just try to imagine a person who've grinded about 18 Mentor Cores, 12-14 Field Generators (and i only wanted two Ilum Crystals) ~NOT~ for sale.

I also have a friend, a very nice girl I was running CZ Meltdown SM 2M with, for Czerka Cores. She has all the same passion. And I can also tell that She has probably the most lovely personal SH on our entire server.

 

For about five times, a GM who visited my personal stronghold, was starting to suggest me to become a decorator of a guildship (about 3 times) or a headquarters (2 times, I think). There is such a proverb as "An appetite comes during a meal". Also, there were a lot of times when somebody (either a GM or another decorator) was doing stuff that I've considered as spoiling my work. And what could I ever say about it? In my system of axes, it was his ship and his headquarters to change whatever He wants the way He wants. Of course it turned out that I want the flagship of my own after all. Not even really as a fuel of my ego. I just wanted a personal and unique right to decide how should it look like... Tatooine is expensive, but there is nothing wrong with a guy who wants it, right? And I am just the guy who's choice is a space cruiser.

 

Funny thing is, I'm not even a "real crafter". I was never selling RE-able OPS gear or trading it for mats (like "WTT any 180 barrel for mats, have stuff in stock"). For all about 2.5-3 years of playing, I've never even crossed a 3-mil "milestone" in my wallet before this January. I hate running DAILYes, I was only leveing my crew skills so that I would not have to grind cash to buy augments, and all my "active" endgame toons are wearing highly customised full legacy gear sets. Also, only the idea of donating or purchasing creds from spammers, makes me realy sick. So, my choice was the crafting.

And, I just used the crafting base I had to get what I wanted.

 

So, I created the guild with my friend (told about her above), and some other two random guys. I've made it to 12 members, started GB, removed everybody but my friend... All too classical. Then, I've dived into some serious crafting, active enough to continuously suspend a limit of GTN listed positions on my "Market toon" (12 pages, and I used limit-extending unlocks). Like, few times I had three pages of Adv Reflex 36 Barrels or five pages of new Black/Gray (craftable) Dye modules. I also asked my friend to help me, since I had no "optimised" (+5 Crit Crafting companion with maxed affection) Armormech companion, and She had one. I was even thinking about running this guild as a real guild - like, why not to let some nice guys using this ship for conquests, since it can provide such an opportunity? But then, I've found out about a "GM ditch rule". Well, I can understand it's good points. And, my friend told the same.

 

Thing is... I am a programmer who writes software for industrial enterprises. Currently, I have a big contract, and there are days, a vacation days, when all normal people are resting, and I am the guy who writes the code for up to ten hours per day. Last five days, I fed with only the pizza I've ordered online, because I simply don't have time to cook. Sometimes, I rest here, sometimes in SWTOR. There are people who like me, there are people who wanted to join my guild after they've simply seen my flagship (I've already brought some stuff there :3 )... And I had to bring apologies and give a negative response because of two things.

First - with my current occupation, I will be a terrible GM.

Second, and you all know it - I am too afraid that a month of my work will be wasted with providing GM rank to the guy who will decide to keep it.

 

And here is something to think about.

For a whole month, I was keeping my eye on a Dreadful Throne that my friend put in a GB. That was a fine source of inspiration for all that time.

You may ask, why do I call this ship mine if my friend took care about it as well? I afraid that it can be a bit too complicated for you, but starting with some exact quality of friendship, you simply stop dividing "your" and "mine" there. This is how our relations look like. I can even tell that I don't care if EAware will make her a GM. Pfffft, I won't even ask her to give it back to me, unless I'll need it for something. What is mine, is hers. What is hers, is mine. Maybe I should've told about it before, but I really think that it'll be a lot of people who won't understand.

 

And the reason I've told about it is that: if that "GM ditch system" will ever "gift" our flagship to somebody other than her and me, then how the hell will I look in her eyes after that?

She's currently as much occupied as I am, but as far as I know, She has as great plans on our flagship as I do.

It is just sucks that we are risking everything by bringing any other people in.

Screw the false modesty: I am sure that together we will create a masterpiece. And it is just sucks that we will probably be the only people able to see it when we want to.

 

That's the story. I understand it's a bit tl;dr, but I am still curious if there will be anyone surprised that I am considering this flagship to be mine (+ my friend's) after that.

 

Allso, this is probably a good time to drop it anyway.

 

Peace.

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by AngelFive

[HyperSonicOne]

I recently resubscribed to swtor and found that I was no longer the leader of my OWN GUILD.The new leader was another guy in the guild. I sent him a mail message asking for him to give me back my leadership because he/she is offline.i just sent this message minutes ago.that person hasn't came back online yet but I hope he/she doesn't betray me.I trust this person but nonetheless,THIS IS VERY STUPID.

 

I had a similar problem about a week ago. I was trying to transfer leadership from my alt to my main, but I accidentally made a different person the gm. I sent him a polite mail asking for leadership back, but when he got on, he kicked everyone out of the guild and kept it for himself. It wasn't very fun.

[Fidelicatessen]

I had a similar problem about a week ago. I was trying to transfer leadership from my alt to my main, but I accidentally made a different person the gm. I sent him a polite mail asking for leadership back, but when he got on, he kicked everyone out of the guild and kept it for himself. It wasn't very fun.

 

That was probably AngelFive. He's the guild owner now, didn't you get the memo?

[HyperSonicOne]

That was probably AngelFive. He's the guild owner now, didn't you get the memo?

 

What memo?

[Aerilas]

It's a hidden command called /mutiny people in the guild can do.

[MSchuyler]

Oh yeah, this is so unfair. Like I said, don't call your girlfriend for a year and expect she's still waiting for you when you "re-sub" That's just asinine and stupid to the max. And yeah, it IS the same thing.

 

I have the opposite problem. I was fairly inactive in my guild but decided to check out the membership and discovered that I am the new Guildmaster! How did that happen? I have no idea.