tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7572661&postcount=471 http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7572709 Pretty clear what his decision was... he never changed his mind. It wasnt brought here and debated upon and his decsision never changed, that would make it final as it stood, that encrouches on Rule 99 and 100. I know it doesnt change the outcome, and i never cared about whether the outcome was changed or not. Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Beni what ship of the RR deployed http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BT-7_Thunderclap a frieghter mind you.... "#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters you’re chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes." Also since I am on the subject any way, wasnt going to point this out but hey why not.... #52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_(Imperious-class) Built by Mon Cal, in 137 ABY, no one in the faction was alive at the time..... just a thought for future this one is almost over....Yeah that was just a mistake on my part. She originally had an OR ship but that was changed. I apologise but at the same time considering its an OR era Republic vessel and she has Jace Malcolm I think its OK to allow it. The reason for this rule being to prevent people from grabbing the best stuff from all different kinds of factions, and instead forcing them to focus on a select few. Considering the RR is very specialised I don't think this is an issue. Oh? I thought it was Galactic Alliance... :/ Edited July 31, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7572661&postcount=471 http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7572709 Pretty clear what his decision was... he never changed his mind. It wasnt brought here and debated upon and his decsision never changed, that would make it final as it stood, that encrouches on Rule 99 and 100. I know it doesnt change the outcome, and i never cared about whether the outcome was changed or not.That was my conclusion, but it didn't come into account in the space scenario so I won't take action. However, I standby by decision, you only get assets within the specified territories - irregardless of whether the planet is your supply world. The Republic Resistance does not in this instance control all industry on Makeb. Not Keystone Station, not the skyhooks, not the mining drills, these are all neutral and up for grabs. The only asset they currently control is Stronghold One and all the Isotope 5/droids in it. This is to ensure that the RR does not win simply because of the Battleground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Oh? I thought it was Galactic Alliance... :/ We had this discussion It was an Alliance Vessel, built when Wedge was possibly still Alive, but yeh, you said it was OK due to its ties to the Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That was my conclusion, but it didn't come into account in the space scenario so I won't take action. However, I standby by decision, you only get assets within the specified territories - irregardless of whether the planet is your supply world. The Republic Resistance does not in this instance control all industry on Makeb. Not Keystone Station, not the skyhooks, not the mining drills, these are all neutral and up for grabs. The only asset they currently control is Stronghold One and all the Isotope 5/droids in it. This is to ensure that the RR does not win simply because of the Battleground. Pro Tip, how about next time you don't pick it? It is a Nerf, whether you agree or not. I now basically have one planets worth of supplies, against Tune's two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 We had this discussion It was an Alliance Vessel, built when Wedge was possibly still Alive, but yeh, you said it was OK due to its ties to the Alliance. He was not still alive he was dead for 80 years by the time that thing was made..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 He was not still alive he was dead for 80 years by the time that thing was made..... When did wedge officially die? I haven't seen any legitimate source give a time of death, at least, a source that hasn't been retconned. Human life expectancy was an average of 120 years, Wedge being a healthy man could easily live to 160.... 200 was what 100 is for our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pro Tip, how about next time you don't pick it? It is a Nerf, whether you agree or not. I now basically have one planets worth of supplies, against Tune's two.Pick what? What are you suggesting! Maybe, but on the other hand you have the following advantages: 1. A in-depth knowledge of your battleground and how best to utilize it. 2. A stockpile of Isotope 5 and Isotope 5 droids right underneath you. 3. The ability to protect the Hutt Cartel and your BOE simultaneously. 4. Interstellar Regulators to back up your force. Sure you lose the drills, but the Hutt Cartel is not your supplier anyway, they are your organisation. Their primary assets are going to come from outside Makeb while Makeb merely acts as their base where you protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pro Tip, how about next time you don't pick it? It is a Nerf, whether you agree or not. I now basically have one planets worth of supplies, against Tune's two.Translation: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Yeah that was just a mistake on by part. She originally had an OR ship but that was changed. I apologise but at the same time considering its an OR era Republic vessel and she has Jace Malcolm I think its OK to allow it. The reason for this rule being to prevent people from grabbing the best stuff from all different kinds of factions, and instead forcing them to focus on a select few. Considering the RR is very specialised I don't think this is an issue. Oh? I thought it was Galactic Alliance... :/ The issue is the size of the "elite class" and how if they were to put it in the hangars it wouldnt really fit.... unless you got rid of fighters, which was argued heavily against by sel for obvious reasons... If I had known Freighters would be ok I would have picked the YT-2400's or something of the like. I was under the impression it was for things like Droid ships that could house thousands, but it was only because the ships they housed were so small and the like. Seriously Freighters I dont think should have ever been allowed unless you chose a ship like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC80a_Star_Cruiser which specifically states that one of its compliments IS a freighter... other wise it is way to big to be considered a "fighter" unless you wanted give a Set number like you do for the rest of the cap ships.... Edit: Galactic alliance built in 137 ABY... Wedge was born in 21 BBY, he would have been 158 years old... I have never heard of a man in Star Wars living that long.... Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pick what? What are you suggesting! Maybe, but on the other hand you have the following advantages: 1. A in-depth knowledge of your battleground and how best to utilize it. 2. A stockpile of Isotope 5 and Isotope 5 droids right underneath you. 3. The ability to protect the Hutt Cartel and your BOE simultaneously. 4. Interstellar Regulators to back up your force. Sure you lose the drills, but the Hutt Cartel is not your supplier anyway, they are your organisation. Their primary assets are going to come from outside Makeb while Makeb merely acts as their base where you protect them. Eh, fair enough. However both factions will complain at all the disadvantages and advantages that I get from it, go the point where controversial decisions are made. In the end, I think this is more interesting, but it's also a lot more tense and heated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Tune, get over the thunderclap. It doesn't need to fit in a hangar when it operates on it's own, that rule was likely designed to stop TIE fighters from being in a fleet with no Hangars. I'm not the only one with freighters, a certain Arbiter has the Fury etc. I'm not sure if you're mad because the rules were worded weirdly, or that you didn't think of it and regret your choice, but making a massive noise is literally doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Tune, get over the thunderclap. It doesn't need to fit in a hangar when it operates on it's own, that rule was likely designed to stop TIE fighters from being in a fleet with no Hangars. I'm not the only one with freighters, a certain Arbiter has the Fury etc. I'm not sure if you're mad because the rules were worded weirdly, or that you didn't think of it and regret your choice, but making a massive noise is literally doing nothing. Rule was worded in a way that it should have been illegal..... If they werent deployable by your ship according to that rule they were illegal.... If they werent every one would have picked a freighter. Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Rule was worded in a way that it should have been illegal..... If they werent deployable by your ship according to that rule they were illegal.... If they werent every one would have picked a freighter. Thats your interpretation. Beni, you know, that guy who wrote the rules interpreted it differently, as he was the one who suggested that particular ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Thats your interpretation. Beni, you know, that guy who wrote the rules interpreted it differently, as he was the one who suggested that particular ship. Then he needs to write it differently and I am argueing this rule right now... also how do you determine how many you have. None of your ships are carrying it... do you and every one who picked a freighter have Infinite amounts. Last I checked the number would be based on your compliment, but as its not carried by your ship and it doesnt FIT in your compliment how many do you have 0.... 8... 3,000, 50 Million. If the rule was intended differently well Beni now knows the rule needs rewording and reworking so that people dont have this problem. If he sees my point well for future... Edit: his last words on the matter are here. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7575271&postcount=128 wher ehe says it was a mistake and he says he doesnt think its an issue, thus I am talking about WHY its an issue, not in the Kaggath actual debate thread, here in the rule thread where it belongs.... and is allowed by rule 100.... Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Im starting to sound like a broken record. They could be carried by the ships in small numbers without taking up any room, but here they don't need to be as they can operate independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Im starting to sound like a broken record. They could be carried by the ships in small numbers without taking up any room, but here they don't need to be as they can operate independently. They coudl be carried by the ships but not along with the other fighters with it. If they were carried they would lose fighters for it. They Fit in the hanger but not along side the usual compliment. As ALL fighter numbers are based on your compliment these would affect said compliment. Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) The issue is the size of the "elite class" and how if they were to put it in the hangars it wouldnt really fit.... unless you got rid of fighters, which was argued heavily against by sel for obvious reasons... If I had known Freighters would be ok I would have picked the YT-2400's or something of the like. I was under the impression it was for things like Droid ships that could house thousands, but it was only because the ships they housed were so small and the like. Seriously Freighters I dont think should have ever been allowed unless you chose a ship like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MC80a_Star_Cruiser which specifically states that one of its compliments IS a freighter... other wise it is way to big to be considered a "fighter" unless you wanted give a Set number like you do for the rest of the cap ships.... Edit: Galactic alliance built in 137 ABY... Wedge was born in 21 BBY, he would have been 158 years old... I have never heard of a man in Star Wars living that long....Its not a freighter, its a rapid assault/deployment craft, and of course it will come at the expense of other fighters, whatever fighter numbers Sel came up with would have include all of her starfighter classes, not just fighters and bombers. And its not as if the hangars on these massive warships were too small to carry a starfighter of this size. So for example, if she can carry 1,000 fighters in her warships that would include these assault ships. Edited July 31, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 They coudl be carried by the ships but not along with the other fighters with it. If they were carried they would lose fighters for it. They Fit in the hanger but not along side the usual compliment. As ALL fighter numbers are based on your compliment these would affect said compliment. No, the Thunderclap can be carried Via airlocks. Each Hammerhead had 4 Airlocks, Interdictors had a minimum of two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Its not a freighter, its a rapid assault/deployment craft, and of course it will come at the expense of other fighters, whatever fighter numbers Sel came up with would have include all of her starfighter classes, not just fighters and bombers. And its not as if the hangars on these massive warships were too small to carry a starfighter of this size. A beni Have you seen the size of the ship..... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon 34 meter length...... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BT-7_Thunderclap Length.... 96 meters Its tripple the size of the Falcon... a Freigther... it is a Freighter, 4 more meters and its a darned Corvette.... And according to sel it DIDNT come with ANY expense to fighters at all... Edit: Oh I am sorry it is as you classed it... its bigger, badder and much much worse then a freighter.... Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) A beni Have you seen the size of the ship..... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon 34 meter length...... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BT-7_Thunderclap Length.... 96 meters Its tripple the size of the Falcon... a Freigther... it is a Freighter, 4 more meters and its a darned Corvette....If it can fit in the hangars of Old Republic era space stations, which are smaller than the hangars of Old Republic era warships and future era warships then it can definitely fit in the hangar of say an Interdictor. EDIT: These things have to fit dozens and dozens of fighters, they need to be big. Edited July 31, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) If it can fit in the hangars of Old Republic era space stations, which are smaller than the hangars of Old Republic era warships and future era warships then it can definitely fit in the hangar of say an Interdictor. The hangars of the OR stations arent smaller then the Interdictors hangars..... Here again let me get you an idea here. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_cruiser 48 fighters 2 shuttles. size of the fighters.... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_fighter 7 meters each... with wings deployed... if wings werent deployed and it was in the ship its likely 5...... that is 19 fighters right there. Ya it can fit, but it would sacrifice a crap ton of fighters. I could do this with any ship and it wouldnt get lower then 8 fighters in any of them. Because its a huge ship. The hangars in Space Stations ARENT smaller then Capital ship hangars. You dont take your Personal ship from flag ship to flag ship you take a shuttle. You park your ship at stations and on the surface of planets never in a harrower and never in a Valor both of which had more hangar space then the Interceptor or the Hammerheads... Edit: For every on of these monsters at least 1 squad of fighters would be gone for each 1. These things are huge and each one takes up just as much space as a squad of fighters or bombers.... thats the point, but the arguements continued as if they took up as much space as a single fighter, or no space at all... meaning compliment size was never hurt by having something much larger then the compliment ships the ship was used to carrying.... Yes it can carry, but it cant carry 12 of these things and still have room for 12 bombers and 24 more fighters.... Edit: none of this is accounting for Height/depth (80 meters) or Width 61 metters again compared to falcon 8.2 meters and 25 meters... This thing is monstrously huge.... Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I love how you're ignoring every post that proves you wrong here. It's cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 The hangars of the OR stations arent smaller then the Interdictors hangars..... Here again let me get you an idea here. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_cruiser 48 fighters 2 shuttles. size of the fighters.... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_fighter 7 meters each... with wings deployed... if wings werent deployed and it was in the ship its likely 5...... that is 19 fighters right there. Ya it can fit, but it would sacrifice a crap ton of fighters. I could do this with any ship and it wouldnt get lower then 8 fighters in any of them. Because its a huge ship. The hangars in Space Stations ARENT smaller then Capital ship hangars. You dont take your Personal ship from flag ship to flag ship you take a shuttle. You park your ship at stations and on the surface of planets never in a harrower and never in a Valor both of which had more hangar space then the Interceptor or the Hammerheads...What you thought I pulled that claim out of a hat? I've played SWTOR, you land in many hangars. The hangar of the Tears of Taris for example is huge, if memory serves at least twice the size of a standard TOR hangar. Yes size is an issue, but that just means they will be deployed in smaller numbers, perhaps 1 or 2 for each ship. Remembering thought that they do have alternate hangars such as the one that the Ebon Hawk landed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 For the Nine hundred and 76 thousand, four hundred and forty third time. They can dock in airlocks, and among my fleet there is a minimum of 120 airlocks. AND THEY ARE INDEPENDENT SHIPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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