Kaggath Rulebook

[Beniboybling]

You need to re-read the discussions I and tunewalker had about Batteries.

 

The Interdictor had 5 Batteries of turbolasers, which is 25 Individual Turbolasers, then 30 point defense Systems (Arranged in 6 batteries)

 

The Interdictor, being 600 meters, is directly on the border between light cruiser and Heavy Cruiser.

 

Also, Beni honey, the Interdictors weren't the "big dogs" in the Sith Fleet, the Centurion cruisers were. You know, the ones that were twice as long.

 

What are you talking about? There's no mention of Quad Turbo Lasers... Only the Leviathan had those. You know, the capital ship of a powerful admiral... Heavily modified.

I assume you have sources for this? I also assume they are dual turbolasers?

 

Anyway that's cool and all, but if they are dual turbolasers then that means that the universal tech rule still applies considering a cruiser of similar size and purpose built 300 years later, had effectively twice the armament.

 

The Centurion-class in terms of role is the equivalent of a dreadnought or a battlecruiser. Only a limited number were ever manufactured and used. Indeed not a single one of these vessels was present at the Battle of the Star Forge (or seen to be produced for that matter) even in the DS ending when you seen a vast fleet of them.

 

Nor did Revan or Malak opt to use on as their flagship. If it were indeed the backbone of the Sith Fleet it would have been used in far greater numbers. "Big dogs" don't tend to make up backbone either, tip of the spear is more accurate.

 

Concerning the quad-laser cannons, they are visible on the image given in the Essential Guide. Look carefully and you'll see the main guns are quad-turreted. The fact that the main guns on the standard cruiser of the Sith Empire were only matched by the main guns on Malak's flagship reinforces the need for the tech rule I feel.

[Beniboybling]

The evidence wasn't insufficient because I have evidence here, it all points to the following:

 

Republic Navy:

Frigates: Hammerhead Cruiser.

Cruisers: Interdictor Cruiser.

Battlecruisers: Inexpugnable/Centurion.

 

Sith Navy:

Frigates: Hammerhead Cruiser(entire class phased out)

Cruisers: Interdictor Cruiser

Battlecruisers: Centurion.

 

Seems to point to the Centurions acting as the 'battlecruisers' or capital ships of the navy.

I was referring to the Hapan Battle Dragon business, when Tune brought up the fact that Wookiee labels them as cruisers, yet it does not discriminate between heavy and light cruisers.

 

Not sure what your point is here though, just prefix cruiser with heavy and bingo.

 

Remember, cruiser is a non-nondescript term. And the Anaxes War College System is a fairly new addition to lore.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Yep, and I outlined them all in the Kaggath thread, I see no reason to go over it all again.

 

Well, I know when you're not going to back down on something so I'll stop, for everyone else's sake. Just curious why you keep using the Harrower, seems like a really weird ship to scale it to.

 

So, what Armament does the Interdictor get? I need it for the fleet breakdown. Same for the Hammerhead I guess, if You're Universal Tech-Ruling them up to Rebellion stuff.

 

Also, just curious, will you be adding Concussion Missiles etc to them, as they weren't used in OR Capital Ships? Or will you just give me extra Turbolasers to make up for not having them.... one of those things should probably happen.

[Beniboybling]

Yep, and I outlined them all in the Kaggath thread, I see no reason to go over it all again.

 

Well, I know when you're not going to back down on something so I'll stop, for everyone else's sake. Just curious why you keep using the Harrower, seems like a really weird ship to scale it to.

 

So, what Armament does the Interdictor get? I need it for the fleet breakdown. Same for the Hammerhead I guess, if You're Universal Tech-Ruling them up to Rebellion stuff.

 

Also, just curious, will you be adding Concussion Missiles etc to them, as they weren't used in OR Capital Ships? Or will you just give me extra Turbolasers to make up for not having them.... one of those things should probably happen.

Because they served the exact same roles, in Sith Fleets no less.

 

Its also pretty obvious that BioWare were continuing the theme of mean looking Sith cruisers/inspiration for Palpatine's equally mean looking Star Destroyers. Just like it was with KOTOR Republic and SWTOR Republic.

 

Do they have concussion missile launchers? Its not listed on Wookieepedia. But if they do, yes, along with all other armament. I find that non-turbolaser batteries remain pretty static across the centuries so I doubt that will change.

 

Remember that that stuff comes under unique attributes which are added after. Noting again that it would have 16 point-defense cannons as opposed to light turbolaser batteries as the Interdictor lacked that particular weapon.

[Selenial]

No, they didn't have Concussion missile launchers, no ships of that time did, unless I'm mistaken, I can't remember.

 

I still don't understand making it a Harrower. You do realize you're nerfing the ship in an attempt to make the Interdictor better, right?

 

It's like adding red, to purple, in an effort to make it blue.....

[Beniboybling]

No, they didn't have Concussion missile launchers, no ships of that time did, unless I'm mistaken, I can't remember.

 

I still don't understand making it a Harrower. You do realize you're nerfing the ship in an attempt to make the Interdictor better, right?

 

It's like adding red, to purple, in an effort to make it blue.....

OK well then no, given that concussion missiles were not common among ships of this class.

 

I'm doubling the strength of its turbolaser batteries, how is that a nerf?

[Selenial]

OK well then no, given that concussion missiles were not common among ships of this class.

 

I'm doubling the strength of its turbolaser batteries, how is that a nerf?

 

Youre saying "Let's make it a harrower"

 

Which brings it down by 14 point defense canons and keeps turbo lasers the same.

 

And yes actually, Concussion missiles were basically the Standard for Heavy Cruisers down the line, they just weren't mounted in to ships in the OR, if the ship doesn't get them through the Universal tech rule it should be allowed extra Lasers to compensate.

[Beniboybling]

Youre saying "Let's make it a harrower"

 

Which brings it down by 14 point defense canons and keeps turbo lasers the same.

 

And yes actually, Concussion missiles were basically the Standard for Heavy Cruisers down the line, they just weren't mounted in to ships in the OR, if the ship doesn't get them through the Universal tech rule it should be allowed extra Lasers to compensate.

I can only assume you missed the part when I said the Harrower has 25 quad turbolaser batteries.

 

Quad means four, the Interdictor has dual-turbolaser batteries i.e. 2. 2 x 2 = 4 i.e. double.

 

Such as? The Victory didn't have them, and its design and purpose was very similar.

 

EDIT: Though I suppose it makes more sense to give it 30 instead of 16 point defense cannons, considering that while not necessarily unequal in ability, the point defense cannons ultimately will use less power.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Quad and double don't quite work like that, but it's fine, I can deal with that.

 

How about your poster boy Heavy Cruiser, the Acclamators?

[Beniboybling]

Quad and double don't quite work like that, but it's fine, I can deal with that.

 

How about your poster boy Heavy Cruiser, the Acclamators?

Suuuure they do.

 

If we were dealing with Republic cruisers sure, but Sith/Imperial cruisers didn't seem to favour concussion missiles. Maybe that seems a little arbitrary, but in the end we lack such a predominant trend among heavy cruisers.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Reason I dont think much should be changed.... the Harrower's didnt have Interditiction on them we see through all kinds of ships such as http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer That putting in Interdiction globes does curtail the ability for the ship to field more weapons. Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

Reason I dont think much should be changed.... the Harrower's didnt have Interditiction on them we see through all kinds of ships such as http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer That putting in Interdiction globes does curtail the ability for the ship to field more weapons.

 

I would say at the least they would be equal to one of these. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Immobilizer_418_cruiser The weaponry number isn't even that different, size is pretty close, fighters are a little different. At the VERY BEST, the Interdictor would be equal to a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vindicator-class_heavy_cruiser which was essentially what the Immobilizer was before they decided to install the gravity well projectors.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

I would say at best they would be equal to one of these. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Immobilizer_418_cruiser The weaponry number isn't even that different, size is pretty close, fighters are a little different. At the VERY BEST, the Interdictor would be equal to a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vindicator-class_heavy_cruiser which was essentially what the Immobilizer was before they decided to install the gravity well projectors.

 

actually As far as we can tell it had

 

35 Turbo lasers and 30 Point defense guns. I am saying they dont need to up the gun size and it doesnt need to match a Harrower because unlike the Harrower it has Interdiction globes, and I was just showing an example of the difference between a ships fire power that had one of those globes vs 1 that did not.

 

In this case the Imp lost half its firepower. Though I do not feel the Interdictor is half the firepower of the Harrower and instead it seemed to give up more fighters space, while retaining nearly the same level of firepower. Its ok that its a little under the harrower for this reason.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

actually As far as we can tell it had

 

35 Turbo lasers and 30 Point defense guns. I am saying they dont need to up the gun size and it doesnt need to match a Harrower because unlike the Harrower it has Interdiction globes, and I was just showing an example of the difference between a ships fire power that had one of those globes vs 1 that did not.

 

In this case the Imp lost half its firepower. Though I do not feel the Interdictor is half the firepower of the Harrower and instead it seemed to give up more fighters space, while retaining nearly the same level of firepower. Its ok that its a little under the harrower for this reason.

 

I was merely trying to give examples of the equivalent in the Galactic Empire, the Immobilizer, was very lightly armed due to those globes. The Vindicator has the same hull as the Immobilizer, but much heavier armed and armored. I was trying to show the equivalent as well, with ships that would fit against what they are currently going against, to show that due to the vessels being classified as heavy cruisers or regular cruisers, that would be the firepower they would be expecting due to having the generators.

 

Even at half strength of an ISD, that would be much too strong for a Heavy Cruiser, just saying.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

I was merely trying to give examples of the equivalent in the Galactic Empire, the Immobilizer, was very lightly armed due to those globes. The Vindicator has the same hull as the Immobilizer, but much heavier armed and armored. I was trying to show the equivalent as well, with ships that would fit against what they are currently going against, to show that due to the vessels being classified as heavy cruisers or regular cruisers, that would be the firepower they would be expecting due to having the generators.

 

Even at half strength of an ISD, that would be much too strong for a Heavy Cruiser, just saying.

 

Of course it would be to strong if it was like that, but I still consider different designs different. The Immobilizer heavy cruiser unlike the the Interceptor was centered around fighter defense with its quad cannons instead of Turbo lasers, because it was built with a different purpose in mind, thus obviously the Interceptor is actually going to have more firepower then the immobilizer in terms of Ship to Ship fighting.

 

 

My point is what its showing is accurate.

 

Around 5 batteries (5 turbo's per battery, except on a couple its 10) thus around 35 turbo's (its in the main thread my analysis of compliment sizes, fighter defenses and cap ship fighting if you want to look at it, I did not feel the need to do a fighter analysis cus that was kind of already done by some one and nothing to add peronsally)

[Beniboybling]

Reason I dont think much should be changed.... the Harrower's didnt have Interditiction on them we see through all kinds of ships such as http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_Star_Destroyer That putting in Interdiction globes does curtail the ability for the ship to field more weapons.

Hmmm, a fair point.

 

However I'd need confirm that the standard Interdictor used gravity wells so bare with me.

 

EDIT: OK that's confirmed but I have to ask does this have any practical applications in realspace? I might assume that because it creates large amounts of gravity it could somehow slow a warship to stand still but that's just a guess.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Beni what ship of the RR deployed http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BT-7_Thunderclap a frieghter mind you....

 

 

"#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters you’re chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes."

 

 

Also since I am on the subject any way, wasnt going to point this out but hey why not....

 

#52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_(Imperious-class)

 

Built by Mon Cal, in 137 ABY, no one in the faction was alive at the time..... just a thought for future this one is almost over....

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[karadron]

#52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_(Imperious-class)

 

Built by Mon Cal, in 137 ABY, no one in the faction was alive at the time..... just a thought for future this one is almost over....

 

Well, I mean the Vong were never associated with anyone in the leadership of the EoP last round, unless Lomi Plo being a Vong prisoner counts. The rules are there for the Grand Arbitrator to bend as he wishes.

[tunewalker]

Well, I mean the Vong were never associated with anyone in the leadership of the EoP last round, unless Lomi Plo being a Vong prisoner counts. The rules are there for the Grand Arbitrator to bend as he wishes.

 

Vong shapers were the supplier Rule 52 state leadership (including organiztion and supplier) thus it would have been allowed thanks to supplier, just like I get HBD thanks to Hapes Inel....

Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

#100 Decisions made by the Arbiter are open to dispute and discussion, but ultimately the Arbiter’s decision is final and cannot be overridden by anyone but the Supreme Arbiter.'

 

 

LK I dont think you have the ability to overright Beni on this regard, you can argue it here with him, but i dont think you actually have the ability to override him....

[LadyKulvax]

Yet the debate between him and Selenial on whether or not she was allowed it came to a standstill essentialy.

 

If he wants to gimp her that iis his perogative but it would change little in the outcome regardless, that's my final word.

[tunewalker]

Yet the debate between him and Selenial on whether or not she was allowed it came to a standstill essentialy.

 

If he wants to gimp her that iis his perogative but it would change little in the outcome regardless, that's my final word.

 

If its a stand still his word is the final one on that, like everything. Just wanted to be sure that was clear to a degree.

[Selenial]

If its a stand still his word is the final one on that, like everything. Just wanted to be sure that was clear to a degree.

 

Again, it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

Besides, Beni and I hadn't finished our discussion on the topic before Rayla simply had to call it, she made a decision. If Beni didn't want things like this to happen he shouldn't have chosen Makeb.

 

Not saying it's his fault, this is a great tester round for stuff like this, it's good to work through this for the next rounds or tournaments.

[tunewalker]

Again, it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

Besides, Beni and I hadn't finished our discussion on the topic before Rayla simply had to call it, she made a decision. If Beni didn't want things like this to happen he shouldn't have chosen Makeb.

 

Not saying it's his fault, this is a great tester round for stuff like this, it's good to work through this for the next rounds or tournaments.

 

Like I said he said not to, even i you brought up something against it, if he didnt change his mind then it didnt change. While I agree it doesnt change the outcome really, which I have no problem with, we cant just discard that authority. The way it is done is just as important as the outcome in my mind. The process is important. I have a greater repsect for the process then i do the outcomes, for this reason I want that process to be upheld. Its why I site the rules as often as I do. I remember off the top of my head almost all of them. While I may not remember the exact number i do remember them. i will argue with rulings, but when a decision is made, and I or any one else is unable to change that decision I may disagree and I may state that disagreement, but Iam not going to say a point change or scenario change or a recount need be done if that decision is followed, however when it is not I bring it here, as it starts to in my eyes to begin to encrouch on rules 99, definitely encrouches on rule 100, and potentially hits rule 66..... I am very wary of such things Rule 66 is the LAST thing i want to See LK has been doing great so far.

Edited July 31, 2014 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

There was no conclusion to Beni and Sel's debate on the matter, I am not ignoring him, there is no reason to bring up 66.