Sage Top 3 Questions - Answered

[Dyvim]

Dude was provably wrong. Yoda hurls a hover platform the senators use at palpatine, Jedi frequently use force throws against both droids and people in the movies, it's actual cannon that jedi can see into the future to boost reaction times, and when it's used in sabre duels it's most certainly being used to attack, the sabre throw is also using the force to attack and is present in the movies.

 

It's a philosophical thing, not a litteral thing. How did that guy get to be a rep? fire him, he hasn't done his research, so i don't really trust him to make suggestions that determine the fate of my sage.

 

Yoda threw one pod BACK at sidious after sidious chunked 10+ at him - it was defensive/reflective, kind of like reflecting blaster fire. Jedi use force push predominantly, perhaps that is what you are thinking of, especially to knock over droids....the only other time in the movies a jedi throws "junk" at someone is Anakin on geonosis, and he is FAR from being a jedi poster boy at that point.

 

Now contrast that with the Sith, where every sith threw junk at targets, even Maul. Sith threw more junk than they used lightning even. Junk throwing was shown to be a patently darkside move. Whereas jedi never once threw a rock (with the force) in six movies. Nor much else of anything. Instead they used force push to knock things down or back, which is inherently more defensive than throwing something at someone. When sidious zapped yoda, yoda didn't pick up his desk and throw it at him, instead he force pushed him...

 

In this game, however, there is no philosophical difference, and the literal powers used by jedi are actually ones we saw Sith predominantly use. That is the crux of the problem. Sure they had to mirror the classes, but in doing so, giving us animations that are straight from the sith playbook, and poorly done at that, are the issue. Anyone that is happy magically conjuring rocks or droid parts up out of starship decks is VERY hard to take seriously.

 

And lay off Nala, the community had plenty of time...weeks, to comment and make suggestions to these questions. ************ about em now is inappropriate.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dyvim

[AdrianDmitruk]

And lay off Nala, the community had plenty of time...weeks, to comment and make suggestions to these questions. ************ about em now is inappropriate.

 

This---Nala was effectively the only person who was willing to ask any questions at all after EAware gave the sorcs their h2f answer. Who the hell would want to risk getting treated like that by the development team a second time? Nibbon had darn good reasons to quit and I would have at least seriously considered asking the community to boycott the dev class Q&A after h2f too.

 

I did participate in the class questions discussions once Nala restarted it but I (probably along with the vast majority of sorcs/sages) was far too cynical and distrustful to actually throw my hat into the ring as replacement sage rep. While I disagreed with using the third question for cosmetic purposes and expressed such, I do understand that a substantial portion of the sage community felt that asking anything of class balance substance was pointless and would result in another h2f repeat.

 

Like I said I don't agree with every question Nala asked (or even necessarily the wording of the questions I did agree with asking) but I at least participated in the discussions and treated Nala with respect for taking the above risks to express our concerns as a class when no one else would.

[MidichIorian]

Just get rid of Arena. Boom, all balance problems, for all AC'es, solved. Team Arena is dead (or only used by exploiters, which is evident by the amount of PvE heroes on ranked mounts on the fleet), solo queue is struggling on most/all servers and it's well established that a lot of the top players, who made Arena somewhat interesting to follow as a spectator, have moved on. Arena in normals is a total mess and not worth playing. I can't remember the last time atleast one of the teams in normals didnt have atleast two healers so it's just a waste of time and not even remotely competitive. Yet they keep putting resources on it and making balancing even more challenging when they could have created 8 vs 8 maps instead. An 8 vs 8 ranked solo queue would have become the go-to playlist. Edited June 2, 2014 by MidichIorian

[Cleet_Xia]

This---Nala was effectively the only person who was willing to ask any questions at all after EAware gave the sorcs their h2f answer. Who the hell would want to risk getting treated like that by the development team a second time? Nibbon had darn good reasons to quit and I would have at least seriously considered asking the community to boycott the dev class Q&A after h2f too.

 

I did participate in the class questions discussions once Nala restarted it but I (probably along with the vast majority of sorcs/sages) was far too cynical and distrustful to actually throw my hat into the ring as replacement sage rep. While I disagreed with using the third question for cosmetic purposes and expressed such, I do understand that a substantial portion of the sage community felt that asking anything of class balance substance was pointless and would result in another h2f repeat.

 

Like I said I don't agree with every question Nala asked (or even necessarily the wording of the questions I did agree with asking) but I at least participated in the discussions and treated Nala with respect for taking the above risks to express our concerns as a class when no one else would.

 

2nd-ed

 

We've lost a huge portion of the active and experienced sage community since launch. Most of them because of the 1.2 nerfs and the h2f answer sorc's received. Nala stepped up to the plate, and ought to be respected for it.

[Master-Nala]

Thanks for the kinds words guys.

 

FYI, if I could have asked whatever I wanted there would have been questions regarding:

 

1) TK's reliance on casts particularly Mind Crush and Turbulence;

 

2) The skill tax represented by Mental Longevity and Inner Strength;

 

3) Why the heck does Project cost so much for what it does?

 

I wound up sneaking the first two in the feedback section for the most part and the last is just a pet peeve of mine.

[AdrianDmitruk]

2nd-ed

 

We've lost a huge portion of the active and experienced sage community since launch. Most of them because of the 1.2 nerfs and the h2f answer sorc's received. Nala stepped up to the plate, and ought to be respected for it.

 

I begged the Dev/Community team (including in person at the Seattle Community Cantina event) to retract the h2f answers and re-issue a response to the sorc questions that a reasonable player of the class could actually take seriously. I urged them to do so to staunch the immediate bleeding--no hemorrhaging is probably a better word--of the sorc/sage community but sadly those pleas were long ignored, and the silence induced more and more of our community to throw in the towel.

 

I do sincerely believe the devs were afraid of sparking a second h2f backlash but I honestly believe to this day that even a retraction followed by an answer like "We have heard your concerns and are aware that sorcs are designed around being able to position behind other supporting teammates. We are therefore watching to see if and/or how drastically effectively halving the supporting team part of the equation affects the class and makes sorcs easier to shut down than intended" would have been better than the silence that effectively left h2f to stand as the official yellow response to sorc/sage balance concerns for so long.

 

TBF the response I received at the Community Cantina event I attended DID sound a lot like the second part of what I suggested above, DPS sorcs were carefully buffed, and healing sorcs are reportedly high on the 2.9 Priority Buff list per last week's class balance questions stream (even if I believe that the nature of PVP seer's problems better lend themselves to a 3.0/expansion-level fix). Nevertheless the failure to retract h2f, as I begged the community team to do, followed by delaying the mirror class rep Q&A for so long along with the relevant lack of communication with us (seers especially, there was some good communication re tuning DPS sorcs on PTS), left a bitter poison pill from which the sorc/sage community may well never be able to recover.

 

P.S. I do hope Eric and/or other yellow posters read this post and the last couple posts I've made in here, as those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it...

Edited June 3, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[Cleet_Xia]

The simple facts have not changed,

1) We can't move far enough away fast enough, to ever have the opportunity to H2F in most of the WZs. The only places we really have the opportunity to do this is on the catwalks of the old Huttball map, & when running back orbs in Ancient Hypergates. Anywhere else, as soon as we stop to heal ourselves we're taking damage again.

2) Most of the WZ simply lack enough LOS obstacles that are within attack range of the objectives.

3) If we get tunneled on by any half-way competent player, of any class ~ we cannot avoid them long enough to heal. And we cannot do any reasonable amount of DPS to such a tunneler without ending up in melee range because we only have 2 ranged attacks that are instants ~ to go with our 2 melee range instants that we hope we never have to use . Our only options for DPS on the go are Project & Weaken Mind. If WM is ticking, all we can do is continue running, taking damage, and wait for the CD on Project or Force Speed to end. If we're being tunneled by a class with a gap closer ~ speed is almost futile.

 

Overall I think it's silly to suggest that improving seer/sage survivability in PvP, without mucking up PvE, is some super complex issue.

 

Possibilities off the top of my head ~ that wouldn't negatively effect PvE or buff sage DPS.

1) Buff the amount of damage absorbed by Force Armor

2) Make a passive class skill similar to "Life Ward" (T5 of the seer tree ~ turns Force Armor into a self only HoT)

3) Rework Benevolence into an instant HoT that might actually get used. (seriously...look at your logs...How often does this ability actually get used?......I bet it's responsible for less healing than any other healing ability, including the passive healing effects.)

4) Add a movement speed buff to Force Armor (didn't there used to be a skill in the seer tree that did just that?)

5) Let Force Armor crit from Force Potency when cast on yourself.

6) Add a 15% slow to Weaken Mind. Make the 2 T5 seer talents "Confound" increase it by 10% & 5% (15% to dps specs, 30% available to seer spec) ~ this is just to help us create a slightly bigger gap.

 

More Ideas that won't be big hits with everyone

1) Increase the 2 piece PvP set bonus from the current 1.5 second debuff reduction it currently grants BACK to the old 3 second debuff reduction the bonus provided before 2.0. That was changed, why? Who thought the extra 1.5 seconds was making seers too hard to kill?

2) Just make the 4pc PvP set bonus the same as the 2pc PvE bonus & reduce the CD on HT by 1.5 seconds.

3) Make the 4 pc PvP Mystic's set bonus reduce the CD on Project ~ It's completely unsustainable as far as resources are concerned, but it would give seer spec some mobility dps without forcing them to stand and deliver.

 

Fun Ideas that will never ever happen in a BEEElion years

1) Give us back our 360 degree KB but make it a mess to use by making it into a ranged & targeted AoE effect.

2) Let us cast invisible Lift/Whirlwind traps that persist on the battlefield for 60 seconds & effect the 1st target to get too close, for the duration of trap's remaining life.

3) Give Double Strike a large bonus against targets with <30% health remaining. (I know - an OUTRAGE, Remind me again why you took away Tumult?)

4) Let Salvation grant a 20% speed buff to all effected by it, just so in PvP everyone can get clear before the barrage of AoE attacks start landing ~ and in PvE the DPS players can scatter more efficiently.

5) Have the Project animation ocassionally unearth a TOR Collector's Edition & hurl it.

6) Give us a cast with a stationary AoE effect, that makes us untargetable for 10 seconds ~ still vulnerable to KB, cleave, & AoE effects. ~ I'm seeing swirling garbage & lightening storms now........

 

On a side note ~ IMHO - the 4pc PvE set bonus is, and has always been, worthless. My healing activities are either sustainable within the force pool and regen rate that I have ~ or they are not. The size of my resource pool is basically irrelevant when I'm hitting Noble Sacrifice once every 10 seconds, and increasing the pool by 50 isn't changing anything. It's not a bonus ~ if it's not providing any utility. And I'm not the only one who has been saying that since the very beginning.

[Katikai]

PVP Healing...

 

The top issues I face are

- lag nullifying my force speed

- too many interrupts and stuns block me from healing at all

 

The force speed issue is just unfortunate, I'm sure most US players have no probs there, I however am in NZ and I do. Would love to ask for an extra second speed added, but for those who don't have latency it might be too awesome.

 

I think perhaps an improvement to Mental Alacrity would be beneficial. Being so cast reliant it guts me to get knocked back or stunned just as I get to the end of a life saving heal. Perhaps if Mental Alacrity made us immune to stuns and knock backs as well as just interrupts - just long enough for one big heal (allowing for lag!) it would make up for the lack of mobility.

 

If you wanted to head in the direction of instant heals, how about changing Conveyance to trigger an instant (but perhaps expensive) Benevolence - I don't use Benevolence in PvP currently. Or let us consume the 3 charges of Resplendence for an instant Deliverance if we so choose instead of locking it down to only Salvation.

[Terrulin]

I think Nala did a great job. I put in my suggestions in the thread as well. I think I personally would have said something like.

 

1) TK needs full push back protection on ALL casts/channels (dist, turb, tkt, mc) not a subset of those.

2) Give sages a defensive cool down off the GCD, or allow self casting of force armor and force mend off the GCD.

3) Make sages not be the clear third option for both PVP and PVE healing.

 

The changes to balance and TK removed a couple of those questions an left with those 3 issues which all affect PVP and PVE.

 

Survivability is an issue that affects DPS and healers both for PVE and PVP. Even if damage output and healing output were the same, being squishier makes the class less attractive than other alternatives. Comparing damage taken numbers doesnt really tell the story of a DPS honestly. Being better about mechanics can explain who takes the most vs the least damage. What matters is how much someone takes in the intense unavoidable phases. Big bursts of damage like 36k vs a sage is totally different than 30k to a gunslinger or a commando because now any random 3k hit will finish off a sage while you have a larger margin to save your gunslinger/commando. Same goes for burn phases with constant damage going out. A little bit more damage being taken in a burn phase like DP Council means that much more healing needs to be done to down the boss. If it is close, that can make the difference (Brontes DF NiM as an example, and we all know the DP council fight will be like this).

 

Healing is a more difficult situation to address. Everyone has different styles of healing that works for them. I personally go the force efficient route and barely use noble sacrifice. Changing the set bonus to have noble sacrifice not eat into your health as much will hardly help me at all. I would much rather have the 50 force, but I am probably in the minority, since it seems no one else follows what I do. Being able to noble sacrifice more doesnt actually mean you get to heal more, it means you heal less because you have less casts to do healing with. Scoundrel and commando dont have to stop healing to manage resources, the use cheap heals (or free ones) to manage energy/ammo. Also, sages are the least mobile. AMP and MP need to be cast. Kolto pack needs to be cast. The occasional UWM needs to be cast. Sages need to cast salvation, and healing trance. Sages who arent me also use deliverance. More casts means more movement punishees sages the most. Healing trance being the best heal and it being channeled means it is punished the most since breaking it earlier to move still puts it on cooldown where a cast would not be on cooldown. And salvation is the least mobile AOE heal. Kolto bomb is instant and can be recast every 6 seconds. Kolto Cloud is instant and once applied, follows your targets around. trauma probe and slow release medpack are sort of like aoes in that they can be mass applied regularly (closest thing sage has is mass force armor which is a huge drain on force compared to the other 2). Concussion charge is almost equal to force wave. The shorter cooldown makes up for the higher positioning skill requirement of force wave. You lose so much healing from salvation getting wasted that movement in PVE makes sages less useful than the other healers. In PVP it is worse because an AOE can negate salvation completely.

 

I think Bioware should do the following:

1) Remove force armor from the GCD for self casts. Do the same for Force Mend. High in the balance tree should have a cost reduction for self force armor, TK should be fine on cost. Make the force armor debuff character specific. Dont punish sage healers for being with another sage healer. And dont punish a group for having a sage healer and a sage DPS. (On a side note, make trauma probe usable by more than one commando healer as well. It should work like SRMP)

 

2) Make healing not suck. Salvation needs to be more mobile somehow. I proposed having the option to cast it on a target and they radiate the healing from themselves (self cast is fine). Give PVPers set bonuses they actually want. How about the healing trance bonus for 2 piece and noble sac doesnt cost health for the 4 piece. PVE can stay the same, or make rejuvenate have a 1.5s shorter cooldown. Then you can use conveyance on each healing trance and each salvation. That will make up for the 50 force (and the less potent sacrifices) with more stacks for noble sacrificing or cheaper salvations. And add a little mobility that is currently lacking.

 

Theses are not over the top changes. They may not even be enough, but they would be steps in the right direction. We can always test and see how this all works. An important distinction is that these suggestions improve the situation for all players not just players who play one style.

 

And to end the wall of text: Why would you change your policy after the last sage/sorc disaster to say you will not release answers to questions on a friday because then you couldnt respond to the outrage everyone had before the weekend? Clearly it didnt change anything since we are now a week removed and there has been no response to what is clearly a negative response.

[Gyronamics]

Thanks for the kinds words guys.

 

FYI, if I could have asked whatever I wanted there would have been questions regarding:

 

1) TK's reliance on casts particularly Mind Crush and Turbulence;

 

2) The skill tax represented by Mental Longevity and Inner Strength;

 

3) Why the heck does Project cost so much for what it does?

 

I wound up sneaking the first two in the feedback section for the most part and the last is just a pet peeve of mine.

 

Expensive in cost because it's a chunky 30m instant hit on a short 6s CD?

 

Equivalents for the other ranged have cost/range/damage/cooldown/delay penalties, there's a bucket of low use abilities because they are crippled in some way.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Gyronamics

[Dhurwin]

I read these questions whenever I need a good chuckle

[wainot-keel]

I read these questions whenever I need a good chuckle

 

Ah, too bad you decided to be away when it might have mattered posting here instead of coming now and whine about it. Oh,well, next time I guess you'll be able to share your awesomeness with the community

Edited June 5, 2014 by wainot-keel

[AlrikFassbauer]

Ah, too bad you decided to be away when it might have mattered posting here instead of coming now and whine about it. Oh,well, next time I guess you'll be able to share your awesomeness with the community

 

Agreed.

Nothing to add here.

[Dhurwin]

Ah, too bad you decided to be away when it might have mattered posting here instead of coming now and whine about it. Oh,well, next time I guess you'll be able to share your awesomeness with the community

 

lol there's no whining here. just saying the first and last question make me chuckle.

[MidichIorian]

Buffs I'd like to see:

 

*Force shelter increases armor rating by 100 % when placed on yourself - Here you have a choice, to either use Rejuvenate on yourself or on a team mate/group member, the latter for the standard 10 % boost.

 

*Life Ward up from 0.5%/1% to 3%/6% - Only active when you have a bubble on you, which in practice will be most of the time but nontheless. This buff would make force management significally easier and strikes me as a more straightforward fix than re-working how consumption works. I'm all for the latter but I expect a change like that to take longer to finish than simply tweaking some percent numbers on existing abilties.

 

Additionally I really want them swap places between Upheaval and Effusion. As it stands there's no benefit with going full Balance in 8 vs 8 warzones. The force management will be crap compared to the hybrids so even if Balance had the potential to do more damage you wouldnt be able to do it anyway, on behalf of running low on force. With a hybrid you're able to take egress without sacrificing much single target output or force management.

Edited June 11, 2014 by MidichIorian

[Orderken]

Usually, damage dealt to the whole Operation group or to random Operation group members is dealt as elemental or internal damage, so that the classes with higher armor values do not have an advantage over classes with lower armor values, like the Sage/Sorcerer. Sometimes, the Operations team will intentionally decide to not make this damage elemental or internal (as is currently the case in the Dread Master Brontes encounter). If you feel that such practices leave the Sage/Sorcerer in a position that is too vulnerable, then please let us know in the Operations forum (linked above) so that we can address the issue.

 

No, Eric, it's your responsibility to inform the designers of this issue when you're so misinformed or mistaken. You should be as embarrassed by your claim above as "heal to full". Yes, this influences healers' priorities. Sages rank higher in triage priority than any other DPS class in the fights below for which your claim is incorrect.

 

Let's examine the most recent 3 Operations on Nightmare Mode.

 

S&V - For 7 of the 8 bosses, all or almost all of the unavoidable AOE or single-target damage is Energy or Kinetic.

• Dash'Roode - All damage is Kinetic. (Though Howling Sandstorm doesn't have a type in my combat logs, damage taken is inversely proportional to Armor like any other Energy or Kinetic damage.)
  
• Titan 6 - All damage is Energy or Kinetic.
  
• Thrasher - The majority of Thrasher's damage, and all of Mercenary Snipers' damage is Energy or Kinetic.
  
• Operations Chief - All damage is Energy or Kinetic. (Note, too, that a Sage is the only class with a healing specialization that can't cleanse Explosive Grenade.)
  
• Olok the Shadow - All damage from the Wealthy Buyer or Olok the Shadow is Energy or Kinetic.
  
• Cartel Warlords - Most damage in the first phase, which is the most challenging for healers, is Energy, but by the end of the fight about a third of total damage taken by a Sage is Energy or Kinetic, so I'll treat your claim as true for this boss.
  
• Styrak - Before the final phase, all damage is Energy or Kinetic. (Toxic Spines is Internal, but avoidable or, if you fail to avoid it, a negligible percentage of your total damage taken.)
  
• Hateful Entity - Hateful Void and Hate Pulse, which together account for over 90% of your total damage taken, are Energy.
  

 

Dread Fortress - For 3 of the 4 bosses that warrant analysis, all or almost all of the unavoidable AOE or single-target damage is Energy or Kinetic.

• Nefra - The DOT, Voice of the Masters, is Internal. Your claim is true, but this boss doesn't count, because (a) it's a joke, and (b) a Sage should take almost no damage.
  
• Draxus - Your claim is true, because almost all of the damage taken is from Force Lightning, which is Elemental, and Affliction and Poisoned, which are Internal.
  
• Grob'Thok - All of Grob'Thok's damage is Kinetic. The adds' damage is Energy. The only Internal or Elemental damage is from Fire, which is Elemental.
  
• Corruptor Zero - All damage is Energy or Kinetic.
  
• Brontes - Almost all damage taken is Kinetic or Energy.
  
  • Brontes' Manifest Supremacy and Fire and Forget are Kinetic.
    
  • Corrupted Clones' Dread Bomb is Kinetic and Laser Blast is Energy.
    
  • Fingers' Pulse Beam and Focused Beam are Energy.
    

 

Dread Palace - For 3 of the 4 bosses that warrant analysis, all or almost all of the unavoidable AOE or single-target damage is Energy or Kinetic.

• Bestia - Your claim is true. Dread Monster and Dread Tentacle melee attacks are Kinetic, but a Sage should avoid more than enough of these so more than 60% of his damage taken is Elemental (Expectorate from Dread Larva or Spit from Dread Tentacles) or Internal (Combusting Seed from Bestia).
  
• Tyrans - Smash is Kinetic. If Tyrans is ever pointed in your direction, Thundering Blast is Energy. Affliction is Interal, and fall damage ignores Armor. I'll count this boss against your claim, because (a) a Sage can purge one or two Afflictions with Force Barrier, and (b) Affliction and fall damage are easy for healers to preempt.
  
• Calphayus - Your claim is true, but this boss doesn't count, because its raid healing is a joke.
  
• Raptus - Force Wave is Energy.
  
• Dread Masters - Raptus's Smash is Kinetic, Tyrans' Shock and Thundering Blast are Energy, and Brontes' Jolt is Energy.
  

 

 

We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. [...] Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Since I and many others have shared many, detailed ideas for improving Seers for PVP in other threads, here I'll share only a few ideas that are minor and therefore usually overlooked.

 

 

1. Our cleanse is the least useful for preventing damage. This is a material disadvantage at higher Elo.
    
    
   
2. Generating Resplendence is tied to a channel with a cooldown. A quick interrupt of this channel prevents us from using Healing Trance for its 9-second cooldown rather than for the shorter duration of the interrupt's lockout (e.g., 4 seconds). I suggest that Healing Trance's ability cooldown be waived whenever it is interrupted. For example, if a melee's gap closer with no ability lockout were to interrupt Healing Trance, it could be activated again immediately. If an interrupt with a 4-second lockout were to interrupt Healing Trance, it could be activated again in 4 seconds. A knockback or CC that breaks a Healing Trance probably shouldn't affect its cooldown, though it is as hilarious as it is sad to be shut down as a Seer in an Arena by merely being knocked around (a push or pull can be added into the mix, as well) until a teammate is dead.
   

 

 

Sage healing needs to be buffed for PVE, too. Presently, Sage is the least desirable healing class for PVE. This would be true even if Commando healers hadn't received a colossal buff for PVE via their buff for Arenas (i.e., allowing an unlimited number of players to have a Trauma Probe). A Sage is least desirable for tank healing. A Sage is least desirable for raid healing, as well, because Salvation is useless in far too many circumstances in both DF and DP.

 

Salvation must be redesigned for PVE and PVP.

 

 

1. The range of AOE heals in SWTOR is backwards. A Scoundrel's AOE, which moves with each recipient wherever he may wander, has a 10-meter radius. A Commando's or Sage's AOE, the location of which is fixed, has an 8-meter radius. This is careless design that affects PVE and PVP, and a reason, albeit a minor one among the many, that Scoundrel healers dominate PVP.
    
    
   
2. A Scoundrel's AOE heal moves with each recipient. A Commando's AOE provides burst healing (its HOT is small and short-lived). In contrast, Salvation is slow and steady. This loses almost every race in DF or DP.
   
   1. 
      
   2. Every fight that is challenging to heal (i.e., Draxus, Corruptor Zero, Brontes, Tyrans, and Dread Masters) requires spreading, constant motion, or both.
      
   3. Even if the raid weren't spread out or moving, a Commando's Trauma Probe and up-front healing from Kolto Bomb handles most AOE healing before Salvation's first tick. Similarly, it's easy for a Scoundrel to maintain Slow-release Medpac on several allies in addition to the tanks. With Commandos' unrivaled, bursty raid healing, and Scoundrels' excellent, mobile raid healing potential, Salvation is pathetic and brings only overhealing to the table.
      

 

 

[*]The vast majority of Hard or Nightmare Mode raids are 8-man. Ranged and heals are almost always separated from melee and tanks. Salvation heals an ally for less relative to its cooldown than a Scoundrel's or Commando's AOE heal. On its face, this is a trade that a Seer would gladly make for Salvation's potential to heal up to twice the number of allies. In practice, however, this is a poor trade for 8-man, because it's rare for more than 4 to be in range of Salvation for much, or even any, of its duration.

 

We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time).

 

You've been forced to recognize (more than one year later than your players), that a Sage's design is terrible for healing Arenas. In light of this failure's enormity and longevity, reluctance to consider instants is stubborn and foolish.

 

Among the healing classes, a Sage has the lowest HPS from instants. The more that a healing class relies on casts or channels, the less competitive it is in Arenas. This is true even if Salvation is counted as an instant, which it shouldn't be for PVP, because interrupting Healing Trance every 9 seconds prevents a Sage from gaining Resplendence. There will be no solution until a Sage's HPS from instants can equal a Scoundrel's or Commando's.

 

In addition, any temporary buff to allow a cast to be instant must be distinct from Resplendence and unrelated to Healing Trance. Otherwise it'll remain too easy to cripple a Sage healer merely by interrupting Healing Trance.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

The Mystic's 4-piece set bonus for PVE and for PVP should both be changed.

 

For PVE, whether Noble Sacrifice has a health cost or not is usually irrelevant.

• Unavoidable damage must be regular and high, such as during the final phase of Titan 6 or Dread Masters, for its health cost to be prohibitive. This requires a Sage to plan ahead, replenishing his Force before a phase during which Noble Sacrifice's health cost presents a material risk. This is a reasonable trade-off for a Sage's deep resource pool.
  
• If Force Mend were to be off the GCD, Noble Sacrifice's health cost would be even less relevant in PVE.
  

 

Regarding Mystic's PVE set bonuses, the 2-piece is crucial, and the 4-piece is worthless for easy content and lackluster at best for challenging content. The PVE 2-piece is so important that most Seers use it (together with the PVP 2-piece) for PVP, sacrificing a few points of Expertise for the shorter cooldown on Healing Trance.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Orderken

[AdrianDmitruk]

No, Eric, it's your responsibility to inform the designers of this issue when you're so misinformed or mistaken. You should be as embarrassed by your claim above as "heal to full". Yes, this influences healers' priorities. Sages rank higher in triage priority than any other DPS class in the fights below for which your claim is incorrect.

 

*snip

 

1. Our cleanse is the least useful for preventing damage. This is a material disadvantage at higher Elo.
    
   
2. Generating Resplendence is tied to a channel with a cooldown. A quick interrupt of this channel prevents us from using Healing Trance for its 9-second cooldown rather than for the shorter duration of the interrupt's lockout (e.g., 4 seconds). I suggest that Healing Trance's ability cooldown be waived whenever it is interrupted. For example, if a melee's gap closer with no ability lockout were to interrupt Healing Trance, it could be activated again immediately. If an interrupt with a 4-second lockout were to interrupt Healing Trance, it could be activated again in 4 seconds. A knockback or CC that breaks a Healing Trance probably shouldn't affect its cooldown, though it is as hilarious as it is sad to be shut down as a Seer in an Arena by merely being knocked around (a push or pull can be added into the mix, as well) until a teammate is dead.
   

 

Sage healing needs to be buffed for PVE, too. Presently, Sage is the least desirable healing class for PVE. This would be true even if Commando healers hadn't received a colossal buff for PVE via their buff for Arenas (i.e., allowing an unlimited number of players to have a Trauma Probe). A Sage is least desirable for tank healing. A Sage is least desirable for raid healing, as well, because Salvation is useless in far too many circumstances in both DF and DP.

 

Salvation must be redesigned for PVE and PVP.

 

[*]The range of AOE heals in SWTOR is backwards. A Scoundrel's AOE, which moves with each recipient wherever he may wander, has a 10-meter radius. A Commando's or Sage's AOE, the location of which is fixed, has an 8-meter radius. This is careless design that affects PVE and PVP, and a reason, albeit a minor one among the many, that Scoundrel healers dominate PVP.

 

*snip*

 

You've been forced to recognize (more than one year later than your players), that a Sage's design is terrible for healing Arenas. In light of this failure's enormity and longevity, reluctance to consider instants is stubborn and foolish.

 

Among the healing classes, a Sage has the lowest HPS from instants. The more that a healing class relies on casts or channels, the less competitive it is in Arenas. This is true even if Salvation is counted as an instant, which it shouldn't be for PVP, because interrupting Healing Trance every 9 seconds prevents a Sage from gaining Resplendence. There will be no solution until a Sage's HPS from instants can equal a Scoundrel's or Commando's.

 

In addition, any temporary buff to allow a cast to be instant must be distinct from Resplendence and unrelated to Healing Trance. Otherwise it'll remain too easy to cripple a Sage healer merely by interrupting Healing Trance.

 

The Mystic's 4-piece set bonus for PVE and for PVP should both be changed.

 

*snip*

 

Regarding Mystic's PVE set bonuses, the 2-piece is crucial, and the 4-piece is worthless for easy content and lackluster at best for challenging content. The PVE 2-piece is so important that most Seers use it (together with the PVP 2-piece) for PVP, sacrificing a few points of Expertise for the shorter cooldown on Healing Trance.

 

I've snipped out the PVE stuff as I don't really PVE much, and certainly not NiM.

 

Regarding your point about sages having the lowest HPS from instants in PVP, however, I would like to point out an alternative solution (although one that Bioware is probably equally unlikely to consider). Our problem isn't simply that we cannot effectively heal on the move (though the statement "We cannot effectively heal on the move" is most certainly true)--there is a second component to our arena problem. We cannot heal a teammate while hiding. We, as the "squishy healer," are expected to run away and h2f, avoiding enemies as much as possible, but we are useless to our team once we have evaded our enemies.

 

Consider the heal toolkit we have available to us once we do find ourselves able to stop and cast. Small hot to proc buffs. Relatively powerful channeled heal, with a crit buff accessible. Long nuke heal that takes forever to cast. Weaker heal, quicker to cast, but burns way too much Force.

 

All of it requires LOS on the teammate to be healed, and all of it is limited to 30m range. Meaning almost any melee attacking our teammates has an instant leap or pull to us. This combination renders positioning in arena irrelevant as no matter how well we hide ourselves, we can be targeted from scoreboard and yolocharged/pulled as long as we are actually trying to get a heal off on our teammate. For if we have positioned ourselves such that we can't be easily yolocharged/pulled, we inherently have no use for our team.

 

Even ranged can get into the act with scoreboard targeting, mark us with yoloflame, and see the mark from anywhere, no matter the LOS we hide behind. Yoloscoreboard-target, look for yoloflame, outflank. It is impossible for us to position for mitigation in arena, and if we somehow do pull it off, we are useless to our team.

 

What's the difference between 4v4, where we are utterly not even remotely viable, and 8v8, where we are viable? In 4v4, yolo scoreboard targeting. In 8v8, the enemy must actually be able to see us to target us (or acquire us through target-of-target of a teammate who has found us).

 

So alternate solutions?

 

1) Remove the ability to target enemies directly from scoreboard in arena, while also making target markers respect LOS, and/or

2) Give us one or more healing abilities that may be used on teammates from a hidden position (i.e. out of LOS) and/or 35m range, such that the positioning game around which our class is balanced can actually be played in arena.

[TACeMossie]

[*]Generating Resplendence is tied to a channel with a cooldown. A quick interrupt of this channel prevents us from using Healing Trance for its 9-second cooldown rather than for the shorter duration of the interrupt's lockout (e.g., 4 seconds). I suggest that Healing Trance's ability cooldown be waived whenever it is interrupted

 

Why do that when there are better options.

 

E.g. Make benevolence useful. Reduce its healing, but make it free, instant, and on a crit cause it to generate Resplendence. This way, you can get stacks of resplendence if you get interrupted, you get a (pathetic) instant heal available, and Benevolence is now the oh ***** ability it was intended to be.

[DAOWAce]

Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

...PvP set bonus...

 

..Balance PvE vs PvP...

 

Why is Guild Wars pretty much the only game that's done the split skill system that completely changes how skills work based on if you're in a PvE or PvP environment? Is it that hard to modify engines of games to get that functionality? Doing this COMPLETELY ELIMINATES the hassle of trying to balance something for both PvE and PvP at the same time.. yet no MMOG I've seen aside from GW has ever done it, and it baffles me.

 

 

I stopped playing PvP on my sage entirely. While I enjoyed it much more as a damage spec compared to my hybrid, it's really not fun doing 900 damage crits to some classes and getting hit myself for nearly 10,000 damage crits, and being unable to do anything about it as everything I try to cast is interrupted or I get chain CC'd to the point where I use both my CC breakers and STILL die without any contest.

 

PvP is entirely unbalanced in my view. Certain classes have an extreme advantage over others, and ontop of that regular PvPers know so many tricks to get even more of an advantage over others that it's borderline cheating.

 

I do not enjoy PvP on my sage (in fact, I don't really enjoy it at all in this game, maybe I need to make a shadow or scoundrel before I enjoy it, as they are the most dominant classes), and nothing short of a complete rework of the how the class functions will change that. (Conversely, I much enjoyed PvP on various other MMOs as a sage-like class, because they just functioned so much better. For the biggest and closest example, look at WoW Priests and Mages, yes, even in Vanilla, which is what I played over 5 years ago)

 

 

Also, a secondary weapon implies you use it from time to time and that it's useful. Our lightsaber isn't useful and is the weakest 'ability' we have.. AND IT COSTS FORCE TO SWING. It has no place being on anybody's skill bar, but I personally keep it because, well.. I want to feel like a Jedi instead of a generic caster in a generic MMO. (I could go on about how lightsabers are just cardboard tubes, but.. MMO mechanics can't have lightsabers actually function like lightsabers.. unless the MMO is designed in a special way) Basically, we only have a lightsaber because we're a Jedi, and honestly, I'd like to see it stay on my hip when I'm casting abilities.

Edited June 14, 2014 by DAOWAce

[Dhurwin]

8 man PvE content and 8 man PvP content: Sorc healing dominates both. I've played on many different servers for PvP and while only doing PvE progression on one server, have always browsed parses for top HPS across all servers. One thing remains constant; Sorcs are the best healers for 8 man content. Their straight up HPS might be lower and not look as sexy, but if done right, once one factors in the heals from the bubbles he/she cause usually see a 1-2k HPS increase from bubbles alone, which places them ahead of the other 2 healer classes. 16man PvE Mercs pull ahead a couple hundred HPS cause let's be honest Mercs are pretty sexy for 16man raids.

 

The reason they excel in 8man PvE is the same reason why they excel in 8v8, the abilities they have to work with are just a perfect combo for that type of content. We get enough support in 8v8 that we don't have to worry about being burst down too quick when we stop to cast. It's not even that revivification can hit all targets either, time and time again bubble stun will out perform full heal if they are on top of their bubbles (not that bubble stun is used all that much in 8v8 anymore but back in the day when it was useful and even now can still out HPS full heal)

 

So let it be said that before any MORE changes to Sorcs are made, the easiest thing to do would probably be to bring back 8v8 Ranked and don't touch Sorcs. You don't even have to get rid of 4v4, Sorcs could just avoid it, or the ones good enough to seek the challenge of 4v4s can queue. The point is your first mistake was getting rid of 8v8 to begin with. You could have just added 4v4s and left 8v8s alone, what did they ever do to you?

 

Now assuming you think 8v8s are the devil what could you possibly do to help out those Sorcs who just can't keep up with heals in 4v4. Well as has been mentioned before, by myself and others, the best thing to do when some tries to poke us with a saber or a blaster is "run like hell". Preferably screaming like a girl cause you're wearing a dress anyway. Unfortunately, as has also been mentioned, this has some drawbacks. No healing being done for one, and no way to get far enough away that they stop picking on you and still be able to help out the rest of your team.

 

So tie in a talent or some such that allows us to cast on the move while Polarity shift is active. Bring back the half cast Dark Infusion tied in with the Force Bending proc. If you really feel strongly that we need it, keep the 30% force cost reduction. But FFS standing anywhere for 2.4 secs in an arena is just dumb. (As a healer) Tie the no health cost on Consumption to Dark Resilience again. Don't tie it to a set bonus, are you crazy? From a PvE perspective whether or not we spend health on force doesn't really matter but being able to save Unnat Pres for something else would be nice. And from a PvP perspective it's golden.

 

If you really really wanna change the 4 piece PvE set bonus make it 100 force instead of 50. Nice little boost to force, makes Consumption worth a little more. For the 4 Piece PvP set bonus make Force Speed grant immunity to force/tech attacks applied after casting Force Speed for its duration, but not for the existing effects, (such as the 5 rows of dots on your debuff bar... a 20sec purge would be a little rediculous.) Speaking of Dots, and this applies to all 3 healer classes, give all healers the ability to cleanse all types of CC and give us all an AoE Cleanse. Seeing as how we can't touch dots anymore we might as well be able to cleanse something. Change what Reverse Corruptions does; Make any Consumption that consumes stacks of Force Surge grant a 25% force regen instead of a degen. (Again from a PvE perspective it's not a big change since you're choosing force regen or an AoE heal, while in a 4v4 you're not going to use that AoE heal as often and the regen will be nice. Plus it's tied to innervate crits which is probabaly going to be interrupted anyway) Change what Reconstruct does. I don't even take it for PvP because 10% armor is nothing and only works on 50% of the damage in game and now that healers can't cleanse dots armor is even more useless. Instead of increasing the duration of the HoT slightly increase the initial instant heal, then lower the CD on Resurgence. More Force Bending = more heals. Since we are a cast class that instant bubble is nice, but it's on such a long CD, make Corrupted barrier increase it's absorb by 20% and change what Lightning Barrier does (so one can't get the 20% boost from Corrupted Barrier and then another 10% from Lightning Barrier). Instead of Static and Force barrier healing us for 1% of our health every second, change it so that when we cast it on anyone they regen X% of their health over X secs. And FFS I'm tired of this "absorbs a high amount of damage" BS make it SAY how much it absorbs in the tool tip. Take Bubble off GCD and put it on a 1.5 internal CD. Take Unnat Pres off GCD. (which you've said you're doing so yaaay). Change Force Suffusion to make overload work in 360 degree angle around us in addition to the heal.

 

So looking at all these changes what do we get: A healer who can withstand being opened upon by 2-3 DPS while still being able to help the group. A healer who doesn't have to worry too much about their resource, yet can still get low should they spam a heal. One that doesn't have to use health to gain resources quicker. And one who has sufficient burst while still being a cast class. Sounds like A. a healer who can compete with Operatives and Mercs in 4v4 and B. A lot of work. So you should just bring back 8v8s.

 

Note: Despite the tone in some places this is meant as a serious post, I personally do not believe that should all of these changes (or versions of them either buffed versions or nerfed, it's the concept that matters) take place that it would merely balance the Sorcs for 4v4s and would not make them OP in progression PvE content or Regular WZ queues.

 

Edit:

For the 4 Piece PvP set bonus make Force Speed grant immunity to force/tech attacks applied after casting Force Speed for its duration, but not for the existing effects, (such as the 5 rows of dots on your debuff bar... a 20sec purge would be a little rediculous.)

Thinking about this now, operative healers get an about 19 sec purge, so one could make force speed a purge as well, and tie it to the merc's hydraulic overrides. Just a thought.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Dhurwin

[Orderken]

Dhurwin, it doesn't sound like you've played SWTOR since the release of 2.0/ROTHC.

 

8 man PvE content and 8 man PvP content: Sorc healing dominates both. I've played on many different servers for PvP and while only doing PvE progression on one server, have always browsed parses for top HPS across all servers. One thing remains constant; Sorcs are the best healers for 8 man content.

 

For the 10-month period from 2.0 up to 2.6, the only healer that might be regarded as "dominant" for PVE is Operative. (This is true even ignoring an Operative's ability to stealth rez, which can salvage many fights on 8- or 16-man.) Since 2.6, it's Mercenary. Please visit the Statistics page of TORParse.com for evidence of this well-known fact.

 

For TFB or S&V, while describing Sorcerers as dominant is absurd, we performed well. I had opposed any changes that would have buffed our healing for PVE. For DF or DP, however, Sorcerers are least desirable. It's easier to heal Draxus, Brontes, Tyrans, or Dread Masters on Nightmare Mode (or, though to a lesser extent, on Hard Mode) as a Mercenary or an Operative. The pair of healers for almost all top 8-man progression groups is a Mercenary and an Operative.

 

For PVP, there is a dominant healer since 2.0 in every format: Operative.

 

Their straight up HPS might be lower and not look as sexy, but if done right, once one factors in the heals from the bubbles he/she cause usually see a 1-2k HPS increase from bubbles alone, which places them ahead of the other 2 healer classes.

 

I doubt any skilled Sorcerer has 1k EHPS from Static Barrier on any fight. In BIS 180 gear for PVE, 1k HPS is about 9 Static Barriers each minute. I've done this on a very few pulls of Brontes on Nightmare Mode, but that's it. 2k is out of the question.

 

16man PvE Mercs pull ahead a couple hundred HPS cause let's be honest Mercs are pretty sexy for 16man raids.

 

Replace "hundred" with "thousand", and you'd be accurate. A competent Mercenary can top any Sorcerer's EHPS by a thousand or more in 16m. There's little raid healing left for a Sorcerer after a Mercenary's Kolto Shell HOT and Kolto Bomb AOE burst.

 

The reason they excel in 8man PvE is the same reason why they excel in 8v8, the abilities they have to work with are just a perfect combo for that type of content. We get enough support in 8v8 that we don't have to worry about being burst down too quick when we stop to cast. It's not even that revivification can hit all targets either, time and time again bubble stun will out perform full heal if they are on top of their bubbles (not that bubble stun is used all that much in 8v8 anymore but back in the day when it was useful and even now can still out HPS full heal)

 

Since 2.0, Bubble Stun's advantages are blinds and DPS, not HPS. Bubble Stun's HPS is less than full Corruption's. Bubble Stun lacks Revivification and skills that buff our heals. Even Static Barrier absorbs more with full Corruption than Bubble Stun.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Orderken

[Dhurwin]

Dhurwin, it doesn't sound like you've played SWTOR since the release of 2.0/ROTHC.

 

I started playing in beta and have continued to play since then up to this point in time. No clue what makes you think otherwise...

 

For the 10-month period from 2.0 up to 2.6, the only healer that might be regarded as "dominant" for PVE is Operative. (This is true even ignoring an Operative's ability to stealth rez, which can salvage many fights on 8- or 16-man.) Since 2.6, it's Mercenary. Please visit the Statistics page of TORParse.com for evidence of this well-known fact.

 

For TFB or S&V, while describing Sorcerers as dominant is absurd, we performed well. I had opposed any changes that would have buffed our healing for PVE. For DF or DP, however, Sorcerers are least desirable. It's easier to heal Draxus, Brontes, Tyrans, or Dread Masters on Nightmare Mode (or, though to a lesser extent, on Hard Mode) as a Mercenary or an Operative. The pair of healers for almost all top 8-man progression groups is a Mercenary and an Operative.

 

For PVP, there is a dominant healer since 2.0 in every format: Operative.

 

I did look at the 8man torparses for all the fights prior to posting and again after reading your post. And here's what I saw both times:

 

DF 8man HM/NM: Sorc #1 Nefra. Sorc #3 Draxus. Sorc #1 Grob. Sorc #1 Zero. Sorc #2 Brontes. (seems like sorcs are pretty good for DF)

 

DP 8man HM/NM: For the 2 fights that show up Sorcs are #1 in both.

 

TFB 8man HM/NM: Sorc #2 Horror. Sorc #1 Guards. Sorc #1 Op 9. Sorc #1 Kephess. I'll admit that Sorcs are a little screwed over on the final boss, but they preform quite well for the other bosses.

 

SNV 8man HM/NM: Sorc #3 Rood. Sorc #2 Titan. Sorc #2 Thrasher. Sorc #1 Chief. Sorc #1 Olok. Sorc #1 Warlords. Sorc #1 Styrak. So sorcs are still mostly top dog.

 

As I said Sorc healing is pretty strong in 8man content, maybe I was a little over-zealous in saying it dominates, but what can I say? I love the class. Just cause you can't do what other sorcs can doesn't make the other healing classes "more preferable".

 

Again I'll admit that I didn't take a gander at the 16man content parses but we both agree that mercs are pretty awesome at those raids.

 

For PvP Ops are wonderful for 4v4s but they fall behind Sorcs in 8v8, this is true on the 4 servers I've played a sorc healer on.

I doubt any skilled Sorcerer has 1k EHPS from Static Barrier on any fight. In BIS 180 gear for PVE, 1k HPS is about 9 Static Barriers each minute. I've done this on a very few pulls of Brontes on Nightmare Mode, but that's it. 2k is out of the question.

 

The max HPS one can get from bubbles alone is about 2800, no one reaches that of course, but I personally reach at a minimum 13 bubbles/min. So bare minimum that's about 1500 HPS, add on the fact I do anywhere from ~2k to ~3k EHPS a fight, depending how many of my buds decide to stand in stupid or how silly we're being that night and I'd say that's pretty decent. I heal with an Op for 8man HM/NM.

 

Since 2.0, Bubble Stun's advantages are blinds and DPS, not HPS. Bubble Stun's HPS is less than full Corruption's. Bubble Stun lacks Revivification and skills that buff our heals. Even Static Barrier absorbs more with full Corruption than Bubble Stun.

 

You misunderstand, yes I know that full heal has more HPS than bubblestun, but back in the day when the full healer wouldn't bubble and the bubble stunner would, the bubble stunner would end up with more HPS because he's bubbling. Now-a-days if the bubble stunner is just more quick on his bubbles he'll still out HPS the full healer, for the same reason; bubbles = more healing than Revivification. And FYI, it's advantages are better survivability.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Dhurwin

[Khaosfyre]

Dhurwin, have you got parses from raids. Be interesting to see your actual output in the current Nightmare content. Edited June 16, 2014 by Khaosfyre

[Dhurwin]

Tell me about it. Unfortunately my raid team's gone off to Wildstar and stopped raiding back in march and Wildstar's where I'm headed as well. I was asked to come help a bud with his guild's HM DF run earlier tonight so I can link that. I haven't ever done stuff with them before and they had another sorc healer so most fights I get around 9-10 bubbles/min. For nefra I went partly naked cause lol nefra XD, told you I was silly. I do have mostly BiS 180 gear and augments I have an oriconian implant with a 138 augment though.

 

For the 21:02:31 - 21:09:33 fight (the one we killed Draxus) I did 9.8 bubbles/min which is about 1139 HPS (at my average of 7k/bubble) which is about 2990 EHPS for that fight.

 

For the 21:13:53 - 21:19:13 fight (grob) I did 10 bubbles/min which is about 1163 HPS which is about 2878 EHPS for the fight.

 

For the 21:44:27 - 21:51:49 fight (the one we downed Zero) I did 8.6 bubbles/min which is 1002 HPS which is about 3964 EHPS for the fight.

 

Nothing I'm proud of wasn't really trying to get uber numbers for the parse and I think it's alright for the first time raiding in a few months. If I do find myself in a NM raid I'll try super hard and make sure I record the parses for ya.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/700470/13/0/Overview

Edited June 16, 2014 by Dhurwin

[Khaosfyre]

Thanks for that (Good usage of bubbles on your HM parses btw ^^).

 

Would have been good to see some NIM level parses as the content is not comparable to HM at the moment.

 

Currently NIM DF/DP is too movement heavy to allow for effective use of Revivication and Sorc heals have suffered due to it.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Khaosfyre