Sage Top 3 Questions - Answered

[Icebergy]

You're a raid leader, Smugglin, so let me put the question to you. You have two choices for a ranged DPS slot. Both of your options do exactly the same sustained damage, and have roughly comparable burst and AoE tools. However, one of your options takes 15-20% more damage than the other. Further imagine that these are both equally strong players. Ignoring raid utilities for the moment, which of them do you pick?

 

The one that can cleanse.

[limenutpen]

Hello,

 

thank you for this message and Sage three questions/answers.

 

I have suggested these in a previous post - thread I created in this forum section a few weeks ago, these regards to a Sage playing in PvP more so then in PvE nowadays (have not done many PvE since 1.7 or 1.6 - minus FPs or HM or daily)

 

Anyways here is the tips

 

Here are some of my suggestions, some of them already stated in the other post but lets go again.

 

- giving us set bonus in the PvP (4/4) as from the PVE set from Healing Trance or make this talented

- reduce Deliverance healing time when you have Resplandance (1 st = .2 secs, 2 = .4 and 3 = 7)

- Making Healing Trance an energy Force filler, when you are using healing trance your energy generates faster. In order to make this more of a challenge, you can make it work with resplendance and if you have 1 Resplandance your Force energy is generating 20% with 1 strack, 40% with 2 and 60% with 3 stacks. This effect does not remove the stacks from Resplandance usable in the Salvation and Deliverance.

[Dyvim]

This is a nice rant and all but...

 

There was a single case in an obscure comic of a jedi who didnt use her lightsaber and instead would throw debris as their only form of offense (she apparently stopped carrying her lightsaber when she became a master). The links on a previous page.

 

Also its kind of hard to make a force move that is designed to kill someone without it being dark sided. I think at least with project/TK Throw, the jedi is using their environment instead of using the force to create weapons to kill their enemies with

 

So you think it is ok to base the whole jedi force using class in this game off of ONE obscure EU jedi that was in ONE comic book??? Really? As I said you can find anything in the EU, and picking an outlier isn't the way to go in an Intellectual Property like star wars where people expectations are BASED on the ultimate lore of the movies, which is the highest form of canon, not some one-off in a comic.

 

Force Push...all the lightside abilities, especially the class defining, fundamental ones, should either be based off of saber throwing or force push. Force push is inherently defensive and at higher levels creates pressure differentials that are basically bomb blasts.

 

In a game where the other classes have lightning, missiles, plasma grenades, autocannons, blasters, orbital strikes, rail guns, etc., jedi get rocks and junk...and pebbles...it is beyond insulting and idiotic. Even if we saw it in the movies or it was common in the lore for jedi as their hallmark moves....but IT ISNT. That is why force push variants, with the power of bomb blasts, as indicated in the lore, is clearly the way to go that is supported by the movies and the higher orders of the canon. When sidious zaps yoda with lightning, yoda responds with a hella force push.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dyvim

[Ramalina]

For Sage PvP the problem is that if you stay still you have low survivability and low output because if the opponents are sane, they rush over and kill you while interrupting almost every useful spell that you have in your arsenal. If you move, you have mediocre survivability and negligible output.

 

Probably not a good idea to completely change sage gameplay by turning it into a HOT or insta-cast class.

 

So maybe the thing to do would be to give some sort of buff whenever a cast or channeled spell is interrupted by another player that makes future casts much more likely to actually get off (bonus survivability wouldn't hurt either, but might be OP).

 

Possibly something like every interrupt gives one stack of something, call it Restoration for now, that reduces the cast time of Benevolence by .5 sec and the force cost by 10 points. Stacks up to 2 stacks that expire after 10-15 seconds. Maybe also make it immune to pushback. Not sure if you'd need to add an internal cooldown to something like that or not.

 

The general idea being that instead of making a Seer a super desirable target that's easy to kill and easy to lock down, make is so that trying to lock down the Seer substantially increases their ability to get heals off. Not to the point where they are invincible, or the healing is guaranteed, but enough to make the mobs of DPS players rushing over to kill them take a brief moment to wonder if that's really going to result in a free kill and no healing for the Seer's team.

 

I suggested Benevolence in the example because it's rarely used normally, and so might be a good candidate for PvP only targeted buffs/interactions.

 

I sort of feel that Seers could work as turret healers in PvP the way they work as turret healers in PvE, IF they could actually heal instead of being constantly interrupted. As far as needing extra durability, I'm not sure. If we could heal, maybe we wouldn't need it. Ask again after things have been fixed enough that the Seer healing part in PvP actually works.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Ramalina

[namesaretough]

Assault/Pyro (commando/merc version) parses quite close to balance/madness (sage/sorc version) in 2.8. Not quite the same, but very close (within less than 2%). And that's despite the fact that Assault/Pyro has better burst, half the setup time and better burst AoE (though no AoE in rotation).

 

Either balance sage is going to be stronger than you realize, or I'm out of touch with what commandos can do. Either way, balance sage gains more in fights where you can dps multiple enemies over a sustained period from double dotting, so I don't think the burst AOE damage is a blanket advantage for commando, and we can agree the sage will still do more damage in a dummy fight.

 

You implied that the balance goal for SWTOR is to trade off damage taken vs damage dealt (and of course other things, but specifically that factor). I dispute that assertion as I cannot see any actions ever taken by this or any prior iteration of the SWTOR dev team which support the claim. My "citation needed" call to you was (perhaps snarkily) asking you to point out the balance decisions which you believe support this claim.

 

I implied that was A balance consideration, not the only one, and looking at the balance of ranged classes in 2.8 is my biggest evidence. Ranged are far easier to balance than melee, and trying to directly compare melee balance is difficult due to varying position requirements, on- and off- the GCD gap closers of varying effectiveness, capability to do damage while closing the gap, defensive cooldowns, etc. Ranged balance is a much simpler problem, with the only variables really being survivability, utility, and damage output (with the implied consideration of capability for burst, target swapping, etc). Comparing Watchman to Vigilance to Shadow Balance to Scoundrel DF to Vanguard Assault is hard. Comparing TK to Gunnery to Sharpshooter is much easier. When I see the balance in 2.8 being that dot spec sages out DPS dot spec commandos and dot spec gunslingers, and the same for TK/Gunnery/SS, that makes me think a decision was made to consider incoming damage in the DPS balancing.

 

Re: shadows in particular, their defensive suite is going to rival watchman sentinels, and they'll do comparable damage with similar downsides. While a simplistic view (ignoring ramp up vs position requirements vs relative gap closers) that looks reasonable to me. Scrapper may be too survivable, but maybe that will make up for having a relatively strict positional requirement, having a slower (albiet free) gap closer with unique limitations and very limited options outside melee range, all considered in the context of current fight designs. It's a much more complicated problem.

[TACeMossie]

So you think it is ok to base the whole jedi force using class in this game off of ONE obscure EU jedi that was in ONE comic book??? Really? As I said you can find anything in the EU, and picking an outlier isn't the way to go in an Intellectual Property like star wars where people expectations are BASED on the ultimate lore of the movies, which is the highest form of canon, not some one-off in a comic.

 

Force Push...all the lightside abilities, especially the class defining, fundamental ones, should either be based off of saber throwing or force push. Force push is inherently defensive and at higher levels creates pressure differentials that are basically bomb blasts.

 

In a game where the other classes have lightning, missiles, plasma grenades, autocannons, blasters, orbital strikes, rail guns, etc., jedi get rocks and junk...and pebbles...it is beyond insulting and idiotic. Even if we saw it in the movies or it was common in the lore for jedi as their hallmark moves....but IT ISNT. That is why force push variants, with the power of bomb blasts, as indicated in the lore, is clearly the way to go that is supported by the movies and the higher orders of the canon. When sidious zaps yoda with lightning, yoda responds with a hella force push.

 

And that's what Force Wave, Disturbance, TK Wave and Turbulance are. Its Kind of hard to get more animations out of 'pushing air'.

 

E.g. what would a push version of TK throw be? Hell, you could consider TK throw to be a constant force push that debris just gets caught in if it makes you feel better. You're not bombarding them with pebbles, just the pebbles got caught in the slipstream. Project becoming saber throw would be nice though... (Upheaval would be it comes back again through them, getting a second hit)

 

Also I wasn't saying said Jedi was an excuse for the way sages happen, just saying that it does happen. Very rarely, but it still happens.

[Petvin]

She was in a comic...one issue...besides, you can find anything in the EU...like jawa jedi, or whatever. I believe Nala's point was focused on the higher order lore of the movies, which everyone has seen and understands...that and the other licensed games, since this is a game. Calling him a liar is over the top and unfounded.

 

I was in the wrong, What i did was taking a raindrop (comic) and letting it represent an ocean (whole Star wars)

 

Basing a statment and opinion on one minor character in one issue , was very very stupid of me.

 

My apologises for calling you a liar Master-Nala.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Petvin

[DaftVaduhhh]

For the off-GCD Force Mend to work properly, it would need to be re-designed so it could be used while casting (though perhaps not channelling), which means the Devs will presumably need to make some significant changes to the combat system.

 

As for the TK animation (while I know everyone hates it, not sure this was worth a question), there's already an animation called Project Storm in the game which can be seen as part of the rotation of Esh-kha Hunter-Savants in the The Scar on Belsavis, as well as off one of the named champions in the heroic area on Oricon, specifically one of the two that patrol the central corridor leading up to the operations area.

 

Said champion also has a pretty cool force stasis animation that lifts and slams the target repeatedly. That said, I think that as a nod to everyone who's ever rolled a Consular that TK throw should be made into a revamped version of Project Storm (something that sits more graphically apart from Project perhaps) rather than some sort of CC market cosmetic change.

 

WoW has these sorts of modifications in the form of Minor Glyphs and I would suggest that perhaps this is an excellent way to revamp Synthweaving & Armormechs by giving them craftable ability modifications for Force & Tech users respectively, thus giving them something to actually aspire to craft at end game aside from augment kits.

 

But who gives a **** when people will drop cash on it if you give them option, right?

 

EDIT: I of course meant TK throw, not TK wave

Edited May 29, 2014 by DaftVaduhhh

[wadecounty]

For the off-GCD Force Mend to work properly, it would need to be re-designed so it could be used while casting (though perhaps not channelling), which means the Devs will presumably need to make some significant changes to the combat system.

 

As for the TK animation (while I know everyone hates it, not sure this was worth a question), there's already an animation called Project Storm in the game which can be seen as part of the rotation of Esh-kha Hunter-Savants in the The Scar on Belsavis, as well as off one of the named champions in the heroic area on Oricon, specifically one of the two that patrol the central corridor leading up to the operations area.

 

Said champion also has a pretty cool force stasis animation that lifts and slams the target repeatedly. That said, I think that as a nod to everyone who's ever rolled a Consular that TK wave should be made into a revamped version of Project Storm (something that sits more graphically apart from Project perhaps) rather than some sort of CC market cosmetic change.

 

WoW has these sorts of modifications in the form of Minor Glyphs and I would suggest that perhaps this is an excellent way to revamp Synthweaving & Armormechs by giving them craftable ability modifications for Force & Tech users respectively, thus giving them something to actually aspire to craft at end game aside from augment kits.

 

But who gives a **** when people will drop cash on it if you give them option, right?

 

Just so you know, the lift/slam animation was originally going to be a move for the Consular class, it can be seen in very early preview videos. However they removed it (I think Project is what replaced it), as it was unfeasible to animate on some models and obviously too difficult to balance for PvP.

[Telanis]

we have no intention to make Sages/Sorcerers use their lightsabers more than they currently do.

 

OK, then can you get rid of the sabers entirely? It's really, really stupid to have them pulled out for absolutely no reason and makes the animations look ridiculous.

[Dyvim]

And that's what Force Wave, Disturbance, TK Wave and Turbulance are. Its Kind of hard to get more animations out of 'pushing air'.

 

E.g. what would a push version of TK throw be? Hell, you could consider TK throw to be a constant force push that debris just gets caught in if it makes you feel better. You're not bombarding them with pebbles, just the pebbles got caught in the slipstream. Project becoming saber throw would be nice though... (Upheaval would be it comes back again through them, getting a second hit)

 

Also I wasn't saying said Jedi was an excuse for the way sages happen, just saying that it does happen. Very rarely, but it still happens.

 

That isn't an excuse to make the basic jedi skills modeled after what sith do, if they did it poorly with craptastic animations of junk conjuring and tossing...but having an upgraded, hardcore saber throw to replace project gets us halfway there - so we are in agreement on that... As for pebblestorm, there are other options as well....if the devs are going to start talking about their vision on jedi being out of the mainstream of the movies, and in line with some EU stuff, then Emerald Fire should be a really viable option. As an artist, I would LOVE to take a shot at bringing jedi an Emerald Fire or Electric Judgment animation in this game...or some kind of channeled force burst....

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dyvim

[AdrianDmitruk]

Hey folks!

 

Below you will find the answers to the top 3 Sage questions which were submitted earlier in this forum. Thank you all for your patience as we worked on getting them answered!

 

-eric

 

PvE - Survivability

 

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.[/color]

 

I look forward to Force Mend being taken off GCD. It was intended as a defensive cooldown when it was added in an attempt to ameliorate the 1.2 cast time nerfs, so I will be pleased when it actually functions like one.

 

Someone expressed fears that an off-GCD Force Mend would not work properly with a cast-based class, and suggested that it be reworked to allow use while casting something else. I cannot agree with this and feel that suggestion goes too far. Already, I manage to use Recklessness/Polarity Shift (often together), off GCD, between two casts without losing more than a tenth of a second. It does, however, require quick reflexes and keybinds to make the most out of off-GCD abilities, which I feel is fair.

 

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

 

 

Currently, Sage healers have a number of issues that affect their play. First, Sages are nearly 100% reliant on casted healing abilities. Our only instant healing abilities are Force Armor and Rejuvenate. Force Armor has a long lockout and Rejuvenate is a small heal mostly used to proc Conveyance. Salvation can be cast instantly, but it requires using Healing Trance (and usually Rejuvenate) as a set-up.

 

In PvP, this causes great issues, because while Sage healers are capable of putting up great numbers because of Salvation spamming, under heavy pressure a static AoE heal is not ideal in the frenetic PvP environment.

 

The Noble Sacrifice/Consumption mechanic is really unique, and the community agrees that in PvE at least it provides Seer/Corruption with a sensible mechanic for restoring Force. In PvP, this mechanic presents very serious problems. Sage healers are one of the priority targets for being focused and in that situation purposefully sacrificing your health to maintain force is not possible. This is exacerbated by the issue of Sage healers being reliant on casts. This puts the Sage in the unenviable situation of having to stay still to restore health and Force.

 

Also, while Benevolence has its uses in emergency situations and off healing as a DPS, for Seer Sages this ability is very underwhelming and rarely used. In your 2.0 blog you mentioned that the ability is to be used when Force efficiency is not a concern. Unfortunately, in most emergencies efficiency is a concern as wasteful rotations will only lead to a prolonged emergency.

 

 

Are the developers considering any changes to Seer spec to reduce the heavy reliance on casted abilities or to improve force management in a way that is not detrimental to survival? For example, improving Rejuvenate, reducing the lockout duration of Force Armor, or removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice via set bonuses?

 

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

[/color]

 

Well, it is reassuring to know that the devs are finally looking into fixes to help us Heal to Full in PVP.

 

I understand developer reluctance to give us more instant heals as that would homogenize our class with Operative (and to an extent, Mercenaries using Tech Overrides and/or their instant heals). In PVE, outside of certain mechanics, we can usually turret heal. In PVP, however, we are supposed to rely heavily on positioning and LOS to survive. This is fair for warzones when we can keep enough of the team up for long enough to defend objectives, but I am sure that the Bioware metrics have by now indicated that arenas are much less forgiving of our need to LOS for survival because death is permanent and we can't make up the time lost LOSing our teammates in an attempt to evade enemy focus fire like we can in 8v8 warzones.

 

PVP healing, and especially in arenas, requires both a toolset of heals and mobility. The problem is that mobility locks us out of the vast majority of our heal throughput in PVP. Force Mend helps (to a point) when the target of our healing is ourselves, but we struggle to keep teammates up with even one good DPS on us because we simply can't do more than bubble/rejuvenate a teammate when we're forced to move. Some suggestions:

 

1. When the Conveyance buff is active, Benevolence may be cast while moving (this keeps us interruptable by not making Benevolence instant, but it at least allows us to move)

2. A casted or channeled heal that can be used outside of LOS and/or from greater than 30m range. I would suggest a strength akin to Emergency Medpack, maybe slightly weaker, but it should have a cooldown to make it not spammable. It should definitely be weaker than our 30m, LOS-requiring casts/channels. However, we need more positioning options in PVP, and especially arenas, as presently with arena target markers being used before we ever actually enter the enemy team's LOS and flagging our location for instant charges and pulls even before true "first contact," we need more options to keep our distance.

3. Salvation now leaves a HoT on a maximum of 8 recipients who enter the circle. If fewer than 8 players are in the circle when it is placed, the effect remains on the ground and may be claimed by the next teammates to enter, up to 8. Any late entrants will receive a prorated HoT based upon how late they were. (Would make Salvation substantially more useful for arenas, and buff the full heal spec for PVP, while being only a minor buff for PVE HPS in most situations).

4. As an alternative to 3, a 4-man group heal that shares a cooldown with Salvation. Heals you and 3 other teammates within 30m range, does not require LOS. If more than 4 are present, it heals the people who are closest to you (or maybe just the 4 people in your party frame? assuming they're in range) first up to its limit of 4 players total. Delivers half of the heal instantly and the other half as a HoT over 10 seconds (basically an alternative to Salvation available to full healers only, and a heal designed for the Arena environment)

5. I've made numerous other suggestions in the past, chiefly centered around fixing our knockback to bring it to parity with the mercenary knockback and/or allowing sage/sorc healers better CC to allow them to buy more time to cast. However given that Bioware is presently trying to remove CC from the game (even though they're giving assassins insta WW when sages are squishier, more reliant on CC to survive, and one of our specs had that taken away from them:rolleyes: ) such CC should probably be in the form of roots if it is added at all.

6. I recognize Bioware doesn't want to mess with cast times, but seriously: We used to be able to cast Deliverance in 1.5 seconds before alacrity, and when 1.2 took that away, the base cast time without conveyance buff was never adjusted accordingly. We have a heal that takes 2.5 seconds to cast, yet only heals for the strength of comparable 2.0 second cast heals from the other healing classes, and this disparity must be addressed immediately as it has been here plenty long enough.

 

Regarding the set bonuses:

 

4 piece PVP bonus should eliminate health cost of Consumption entirely. If PVErs want it, they should have to give up their 2 piece PVE reduced cooldown Healing Trance (which is a fairly substantial sacrifice) for it. That would go a long way towards fixing the Seer set bonuses IMO. I'm not really fussed about the PVE 4pc because the PVE 2pc is so useful, but then again I don't PVE all that much.

 

If Bioware is truly afraid of PVErs picking up an improved 4pc PVP Force management set bonus, Bioware could change the 4pc PVP set bonus to reduce cast time of Deliverance by .5 seconds instead (brings our main heal to cast time parity with the other healing classes for PVP, yet keeps it relatively sequestered from buffing PVE).

 

Regrettably, Bioware took so long to address the set bonus disparity suffered by sage healers that I gave in and utilized bolster to get the 2pc PVE HT bonus for PVP, as with the latest iteration of bolster, using 162 PVE set gear on two pieces only sacrifices 6 expertise for an incredibly better set bonus. So I'm afraid that the "fix the PVP set bonus to avoid abusing bolster to get the 2pc PVE bonus instead" ship has already sailed, at least until the 3.0 expansion.

Edited May 29, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[Dropfall]

We are mostly satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability in Operations. If you are a Sage/Sorcerer that specializes in dealing damage, we do not expect you to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself or others in an Operation. If you find this to not be the case in any given encounter, please feel free to post in the Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions forum, and let the Operations team know specifically which mechanic in which encounter is making you feel like you are required to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself to survive. Also, please note that depending on how you and your healer specialize (if your group has a Sage/Sorcerer healer), your own Force Armor/Static Barrier is likely weaker and more expensive than your Sage/ Sorcerer healer’s Force Armor/Static Barrier. In addition, using your own Force Armor/Static Barrier will lockout your Sage/Sorcerer healer’s stronger and cheaper version of the ability.

 

Hahahahahahahaha

 

Let me get this right, DPS Sorcs/Sages have two (2) defensive CDs. One that they can't use in Operations because it breaks mechanics and drops agro, and one they shouldn't use because they're not meant to and because Heal Sorc/Sages have a better version of it.

 

DEVs you are ******, just straight up ******. Heal to full all over again. Gonna ditch Static Barrier out of my bars and run HM DF/DP; who do I send the repair bill for my numerous deaths to?

 

SOLUTION:

Force Armor/Static Barrier - is a healer ability learnt in their tree

New Shield ability akin to Shield Probe - Given to all Sorcs/Sages upon reaching whatever level it was when you got Force Armor/Static Barrier, has a CD, doesn't use up the GCD, uses minimal force.

 

Done.

 

Next thing we'll be told DPS shouldn't be using their cleanses during fights because its the healers job. Hahahahaha.

 

DEVs just stop being ******.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dropfall

[TACeMossie]

Something I always thought should be done to help out seer spec was actually to redesign Benevolence.

The other 2 healer classes have a pathetic, but existing, free heal (Diagnostic Scan/Hammer Shots). Sages do not have this option.

Benevolence was mentioned to be used when you need healing rapidly, but Deliverance is better at this job, and its the worst of all the other options, with the exception of force wave, but thats an AoE heal, and is still better than Benevolence because its instant. And free.

 

So why not do the following change for Benevolence:

 

Heals dealt by Benevolence are reduced to your bonus healing value. So if your bonus healing stat is 700, benevolence heals for 700 health

 

Benevolence is now channeled over a 1.5 second duration, is free, and deals a heal every 0.5 seconds. It is also tied into Resplendance, with critical hits from it having a 15/30% chance of granting Resplendance.

 

Should the PvP set bonus get turned into no penalty from Noble Sacrifice (like they said could be happening), then Benevolence would work similarly to Diagnostic Scan, with a few differences.

1. It channels faster

2. Its energy returns on a crit are on the GCD, and are only a chance of it.

3. Its high crit-rate requires another ability or proc, rather than being natural

 

Oh and on the topic of only having mend + force barrier as defensive cooldowns, simple solution:

 

1. Force Barrier no longer provides a threat ignore

2. Force Mend and Cloud Mind are given talents in the TK and Balance trees to become defensive cooldowns:

 

TK TREE:

CASCADING FORCE: In addition to its current effects, Cascading Force also causes Force Mend to increase damage reduction by 15/30% for 12 seconds. This can not happen any more than once every 90 seconds

 

BLACKOUT: Blackout now causes Cloud Mind to increase your defense chance by 15/30% on all targets for 6 seconds. This is in addition to Blackout's current effects.

 

BALANCE TREE:

 

MIND WARD: Mind ward now causes Force Mend to give you a 50/100% chance to absorb all the damage of the next incoming force/tech attack. Is not consumed until it activates. This is in addition to Mind Ward's current effects.

 

MENTAL DEFENSE: Mental Defense now causes Cloud Mind to grant a 15%/30% reduction in damage taken by the Sage for 6 seconds. This is in addition to Mental Defenses current effects.

 

And yes, I cheated and took a defensive cooldown from the Shadows that is being added next patch and changed 2 words. 3 guesses which one

Edited May 29, 2014 by TACeMossie

[MaximusRex]

Will the developer do anything to ameliorate these issues? Examples include allowing Willpower to affect melee attacks; providing additional worthwhile lightsaber attacks; and offering alternate animations via the Cartel Market or otherwise (Marketing take note!).

 

We could rather easily make Willpower affect melee attacks for Sages/Sorcerers, but we have no intention to make Sages/Sorcerers use their lightsabers more than they currently do. In terms of lore, the particular attributes that make someone a “Jedi Sage” or a “Sith Sorcerer” vary over the vast timeline of the Star Wars galaxy. And while Yoda and Palpatine were definitely inspirations for these classes, they are never identified by those terms in the films, and it wasn’t our intention to make direct gameplay clones of those characters in any case. Our feeling was that there are many players who want the experience of playing as a Jedi/Sith who relies almost solely on their mastery of the Force to resolve the challenges they face, with the lightsaber serving only as a secondary weapon; these classes were designed with that experience in mind.

 

As far as offering alternate animations and visual effects via the Cartel Market is concerned, only time will tell. Your message has been passed onto the team responsible for Cartel Market updates, and if it is possible, then you might see those options appear in the future.

 

 

 

One of the problems, I feel, with Sorcs/Sages being "Force Masters" is their toolkit is mostly a 1 trick pony. Sorc is all Lightning all the Time, and Sage is all Rocks all the time. They should be pulling stuff off the walls and ceilings and throwing senate pods are each other. They should be able to absorb damage and feed it back to their opponent. They should be tossing people all over while never touching them.

 

If you want them to be "Force Masters" then you need to make it feel like they are using a range of force abilities.

[Kingsbount]

Always thought that 2 debuffs at once is too much.

Simply remove force regeneration debuff and leave health consumption.

Everyone is happy.

Hardcore nerds happy for challenge in heals.

Casual gamers happy that they don't need to hard track their buffs.

Simple.

[CommanderKeeva]

But you asked for more melee damage. I mean, that's what sages need right? More melee damage. And being in melee range will help with the glass cannon part also. New ability when level increases they'll give you Super Saber Strike.

 

But seriously, no health loss on noble sac would be kind of OP. Maybe when NS is used give a 15 second buff that doubles force regen in addition to its current benefit? Would still need to use it but would be needed a lot less... at least every 15 seconds and use it as a pre-cast ability to begin fights.

 

I am confused a bit as to why they would ever ask such a question, especially when they're limited to 3 answers only. You already have two Jedi advanced classes that use lightsaber attacks exlusively (Guardian and Sentinel) and one that combines lightsaber attacks with Force powers (Shadow). I really don't see why you would need a 4th lightsaber-using Jedi AC.

 

I think the 3rd question should have gone to TK or Balance.

[Darth_Dreselus]

In response to the Seer issues:

 

PvP/PvE:

- allow Resplendance to be used on reducing the cast time of either Benevolence or Deliverance

- remove health cost from NS on PvP 4piece

 

PvE:

- no need to change the 4piece but the Resplendance change would be good too.

[Adaliaya]

Sage healer needs a buff. Especially mobility should be increased. Here come my suggestions:

 

1. Improve healing done (especially HoT effect) of Rejuvanation

2. Lower Bubble force cost for healers and slightly improve damage absorbed by it

3. Add high Seer tree talent that permanently removes Force regen debuff so Resplendence stacks can be used to more mobile Salvation. Health is high enough cost for Force

4. Make Benevolence to also restore some heal over time like Kolto Pack, and lower its force cost (both from Seer tree 30+ ability) Benevolence is quite useless at it's current state

5. Slightly improved healing dealt by Salvation

 

All these chances would ofc make us OP but few of them I would like to see added

[rreddy]

And with this I think its time i started sage healing again......

 

 

 

 

inb4muchqq

[DarthVengeant]

From reading all the responses here to what the Dev's have said it is painfully obvious to me that the Dev's really don't raid much. And if they do, they rely on healers to be healed and protected, which is ridiculous considering as a Sage/Sorc you have quite a few things to keep yourself healed and protected right there already. So, the dev's don't use their Force Armor/Static Barrier and think it shouldn't be used in raids? Yet EVERY SINGLE SAGE/SORC HEALER OR DPS I KNOW USES IT NEARLY 100% OF THE TIME!!! Including me. Honestly, from what I read in the OP I wouldn't want one of these devs in my raids. Ever.

 

Furthermore, the fact that so many of your abilities require you to stand still like a tree to cast, yet somehow that doesn't effect your survivability? What? o_O I would bet every single Sage/Sorc here would say that most the reason they die or have a complaint here is because they have to stand still to cast the things that matter at a time you don't want to be standing still. I would bet that we ALL want our abilities that matter to be mobile-cast or get some kind of buff to make a few mobile for 10 seconds, or something. The only real build that get's around this is the Lightning/Maddness build, but that one requires a pile of Alacrity. I bet Bioware will try to nerf that one as well....

 

Seems to me they are very out of touch in how to play their own game and class. I honestly laughed when I read what they said about this stuff. Flat out ridiculous.

Edited May 29, 2014 by DarthVengeant

[elvavwiel]

TLDR:

- Point 2: Return the no health cost for noble sacrifice on resplendence as it used to be.

- Point 3: Return the old project animation, there was no need to change the animation whilst still making it do the damage just as fast as sorcs. (it felt so much more powerfull when you saw the rock slowly being lifted and flung)

Try to figure out a better animation for telekinetic throw, its just not as epic as the one satele uses in the trailer/add some variation whenever its used as to avoid boredom of repetition.

 

 

 

On point 2: 'Pvp Seer Issues':

There was a point in time where seers didn't have the health AND force regen cost attached to noble sacrifice if specced high into the seer tree and having resplendence.

But a lapse of judgement occured when people decided that in order to make it 'fair' towards other healers the no health cost factor had to be removed without offering something in return for:

- still having to spend a full gcd on using noble sacrifice to regain force

- if you get combat rezzed as a sage in general you have no decent way to regain your resources wheras other classes have cooldowns that restore over half/full resources with just the 1 skill.

- There are moments (nim, pvp) where a seer just can't afford to waste time on the 'nice' force neutral rotation as that pretty much makes you lose multiple seconds of healing by spending gcd's on ns. Which makes you completely drained near the end of those moments and then you'll have to try and get enough resources back (which is cutting back on the healing again) for the next moment that happens.

 

A pve set bonus i wouldn't mind sacrificing: +50 force, sure in the long term the extra 50 force with ns adds up, but it is more then doable to just heal with 600 force.

A pvp set bonus i wouldn't mind sacrificing: The % health hot you get when you use ns in pvp, a very slow non stacking 'return' of the health you had to spend on regaining your energy is just useless.

 

Just return the no health cost factor on resplendence as it used to be, other classes don't have to eat half their max health when they pop a cooldown to regain 80% of their resources, so why should we?

And even then the other classes don't have to spend 10 gcd's (~ 12 - 15 seconds) to get those 80% resources for that.

 

 

On point 3: 'Sage as Jedi'

Sages had a perfectly fine powerfull feeling animation for project, but people decided to whine and it got changed to the now 'measly' feeling project.

Telekinetic throw, in and by itself the way it is represented when Satele uses it in the trailer seems nice enough, its just the way its shown ingame that makes it feel rather bland/'meh' especially if you use it non stop (balance).

Not using the lightsaber except for defensive purposes i can live with, i'll still use regular attacks when i'm bored in pve and dont feel like using force to assist with some minor hits on mobs. If i wanted to slice & dice i'd be maining my sentinel or guardian.

[fire-breath]

PvE - Survivability

 

Usually, damage dealt to the whole Operation group or to random Operation group members is dealt as elemental or internal damage, so that the classes with higher armor values do not have an advantage over classes with lower armor values, like the Sage/Sorcerer.

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.[/color]

 

Amen to both parts. I have had many discussion in my group about that sages are most often not taking more damage than other classes (at least in the fights I analyzed where we had issues with healing).

About the second part I would love to see an off the GCD force mend.

 

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

This a real easy question imo. I would trade off the 4-set PvE bonus in a heartbeat (the 50 extra force). Only when I make mistakes with noble sacrifice I end up with to low force. Personally I am using for PvE the 2-set PvE and 2-set PvP bonus for the shorter lockout on forcearmor (I feel its nice to shield tanks more often).

 

For PvP its not hard either. The current 4-set PvP generates a HoT after using NS. If NS would be free via setpieces it would make sense to use this one. If you replace the 2-set PvP bonus you will have the very weird possibility often noble sacrificing yourself to life. Although I like the idea of a freebee heal like that it might be a tad OP ;-) On the other hand it would increase PvP survivability even further. Gods knows we need it.

[Divona]

I am really shocked that DPS sage's are not suppose to bubble themself or even others in ops.

On first page this thread has very good summary what is going on really and why sages take so much damage and have to use bubbles. Every ops leader in HM and NiM knows that sage bubble helps a lot and doesnt matter if you are healing or dps spec. It is even more mind boggling that force armor gets buff from DPS tree and not suppose to use it???

Spike damage on many ops encounters are so high that ops leaders ASKING to bubble up before that happens. Sage's dont have pretty much nothing to use as defence (barrier is not usable if it drops aggro and puts you on HOLD doing nothing).

 

The +4 set bonus change would be very welcome even for pve. Having penalty by using noble sacrifice was wrong in first place.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Divona

[Manweth]

Hello, bringing words from Hakkology since he QUIT the game and went F2P so he can't post.

 

Paraphrasing ( Original was a lot worse.)

 

He says all that who supported that 3rd question should be flayed alive and burned at stake for their stupidity. I'm inclined to agree.

 

He also says force armor is as fine as it is, but the removal of GCD from Force Mend was something that even Nibbon was screaming back when the skill was first introduced. It's a must.

 

PvP set bonus being changed to affect NS is a bad idea, and I agree with this as well. It'd be Gunslingers all over again. And overpowered at PvE healing.

 

And he also said that this clearly demonstrates what devs want for sages: Quit the game.

 

No TK fix AT ALL, balance being behind NO MATTER HOW BUFFED IT IS, and healing is only barely on par with commando in PvE. He advises all of you to either quit the game or reroll. While I don't necessarily agree with this part, the same is also happening to us Guardians as well, so there's a nugget of truth there.

 

Take this as however you want. I don't think Hakkology will come back unless something drastic happens in 3.0, and he is happy with Wildstar.

 

You are dwindling in numbers and no longer possess the heavy hitters such as Nibbon or Handcuff, no respectable sage to speak of has been left.

 

You are dying. Whether you take it lying face down and succumbing or fighting it to your last breath, that is your choice.

 

BUT NO WAY IN HELL you'll find salvation with questions like Question 3.

 

I mean seriously, MELEE damage?! That was your concern?!