Sage Top 3 Questions - Answered

[Ycoga]

Not a damn peep from BW after they asked for our feedback earlier.

[Dhurwin]

Heh, yeah don't I know it, Khaos. I really wanted to see the NiM stuff but when the average age of your raid group is 15 their attention spans are a little short XD. If you happen to play on JC you could take me along to a raid >.> wouldn't even charge ya. Thanks for the compliment! Edited June 16, 2014 by Dhurwin

[a_Sureshot]

We are mostly satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability in Operations. If you are a Sage/Sorcerer that specializes in dealing damage, we do not expect you to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself or others in an Operation. If you find this to not be the case in any given encounter, please feel free to post in the Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions forum, and let the Operations team know specifically which mechanic in which encounter is making you feel like you are required to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself to survive. Also, please note that depending on how you and your healer specialize (if your group has a Sage/Sorcerer healer), your own Force Armor/Static Barrier is likely weaker and more expensive than your Sage/ Sorcerer healer’s Force Armor/Static Barrier. In addition, using your own Force Armor/Static Barrier will lockout your Sage/Sorcerer healer’s stronger and cheaper version of the ability.

 

Usually, damage dealt to the whole Operation group or to random Operation group members is dealt as elemental or internal damage, so that the classes with higher armor values do not have an advantage over classes with lower armor values, like the Sage/Sorcerer. Sometimes, the Operations team will intentionally decide to not make this damage elemental or internal (as is currently the case in the Dread Master Brontes encounter). If you feel that such practices leave the Sage/Sorcerer in a position that is too vulnerable, then please let us know in the Operations forum (linked above) so that we can address the issue.

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.

 

So I just got benched and am currently in one of the best 16m guilds in the game Severity Gaming. I didn't need to get benched for Brontes but for Council I'm squishy as F*** I literally can't survive this fight. I guarantee that i will not survive this fight unless i'm sitting there healing my self and NOT doing damage. As a dps i shouldn't need to heal my self and apparently to you guys I shouldn't need to Force Armor my self either so whatever you guys are planning on doing with this class' survive ability I hate to say it, but you guys are literally pushing me away from this game.

[Khaosfyre]

 

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

Eric,

 

Sage/Sorcerer healing is undesired at the moment in the current NIM content due to heavy movement required and the relative ineffectiveness of Salvation/Revivification. Given the efficiency now of Operatives and Mercenaries in the current content -- and best reflected in the NIM Brontes encounter, Sage/Sorcerer healing needs to achieve some parity/efficiency gains.

 

 

Remove Rejuvinate cooldown;

- Weak HOT ability but allows for flexibility in healing styles for PVP/PVE.

- A more efficient Force Management by utilizing Conveyance/Force Bending talent more frequently. This will help both PVP and PVE aspects.

- Enhancing Sage/Sorcerer as a pure niche 'mitigation healer' qualities by providing multiple targets with Force Shelter.

 

Benevolence/Dark Heal needs redesign/functional rescope;

- Apart from situational PVP healing, where does this really belong?

- Not really utilized in PVE at the moment due to expensive force cost.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Khaosfyre

[Dhurwin]

- Enhancing Sage/Sorcerer as a pure niche 'mitigation healer' qualities by providing multiple targets with Force Shelter.

The issue with Force Shelter is 10% armor is around 1-2% (depending on the armor class) damage mitigation which on any given hit is actually a damage reduction of less than 100 (in most cases). Let's just say that Rejuv didn't have the 10% armor attached to it (and you're healing with a Scoundrel), over the course of a 15 min fight, both healers will have more than enough overheal on a single target (the tank in this case) to cover the ~100k over all damage increase. Tack on the fact that if most AoE damage is indeed internal/elemental than an AoE Force Shelter won't help anything. Instead of Force Shelter being 10% armor make it 3% damage reduction (and this applies to Adv. Med. Probe as well) and yeah a AoE version would be nice. Force Shelter could be applied to those who are healed by Salvation.

 

Benevolence/Dark Heal needs redesign/functional rescope;

- Apart from situational PVP healing, where does this really belong?

- Not really utilized in PVE at the moment due to expensive force cost.

It's an "oh****" heal. It's the only quickcast-type heal (cast at or below 1.5 sec) that doesn't have a CD, but because it's got such a high cost it's got no place in a real rotation. If a Sage/Sorc doesn't have to use that heal then you know the raid's going well. Maybe it could be a little cheaper but that's only cause I'm PvP biased, and if they're really looking into ways to help us out in PvP heals anyway then it more than likely doesn't need to change.

 

I understand the want to have all our heals useful all of the time, but if Dark Heal/Bene is never used we're not missing out on anything. Comm's have 6 heals (not including Hammer Shots and lulcleanseheal) 2 of which are AoEs. Scounds have 5 heals (not including Diagnostic Scan and lulcleanseheal) 1 of which is an AoE. Sages have 6 heals (not including Bene and lulcleanseheal) 2 of which are AoEs.

[jstyrka]

If you want to make seer sages more competitive in arenas but without affecting pve then it needs to be a defensive cool to last longer. Making kinetic collapse a skill that healers can obtain too would make it a more even game for us. With this ability it would give us more of a chance to cast healing trance which in turn allows us to get resplendence to regain force and instant cast salvation. A lot of healers who do arenas spec up to kinetic collapse already at the sacrifice of obtaining salvation as it gives us a much better chance to stay alive and be competitive in pvp. It really is the answer to allow sages to compete with the other 2 healing classes

[AdrianDmitruk]

If you want to make seer sages more competitive in arenas but without affecting pve then it needs to be a defensive cool to last longer. Making kinetic collapse a skill that healers can obtain too would make it a more even game for us. With this ability it would give us more of a chance to cast healing trance which in turn allows us to get resplendence to regain force and instant cast salvation. A lot of healers who do arenas spec up to kinetic collapse already at the sacrifice of obtaining salvation as it gives us a much better chance to stay alive and be competitive in pvp. It really is the answer to allow sages to compete with the other 2 healing classes

 

I think Bioware is (reasonably) afraid of making madness OP by lowering it to where full 36 point heals, and by extension full 36 point madness, could get it--but Bioware could introduce a similar CC talent (perhaps a Force version of carbonize?) high up in the healing tree.

Edited June 26, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[jstyrka]

I think Bioware is (reasonably) afraid of making madness OP by lowering it to where full 36 point heals, and by extension full 36 point madness, could get it--but Bioware could introduce a similar CC talent (perhaps a Force version of carbonize?) high up in the healing tree.

 

I agree it cannot be an ability that balance can obtain too. Maybe spending into salvation can give you the same ability. There needs to be a better incentive to spec for seer as ATM skank heals are the most popular build.

[DAOWAce]

Retiring my Sage after not even a month at endgame.

 

Already commented about PvP, so this will be about PvE.

 

Was a hybrid spec while leveling and couldn't do anything at endgame in groups. (Solo only)

 

Respecced to damage since I couldn't stand fighting the controls, UI and framerate issues the game has; did fairly well, game was a lot more enjoyable not having to stare at health bars and frantically try to heal.

 

Eventually respecced to healing 2 nights ago after being completely inferior to other damage classes (things were dying to instant damage abilities before my casts even finished, I felt useless) and also because the queue times were in hours (and there's no cross-server tech ever coming, yet another problem with the game). Wiped multiple times on bosses commandos/scoundrels have zero issue handling, while being overgeared, and being extremely pressured to keep my force up and not have people die.

 

Being forced to talent CORE HEALING SKILLS and commit FULLY to a single tree to even be useful is not good game design, at all.

 

So, I'm done with my Sage, and soon to be done with the game as the controls, UI and framerate are still very much a problem and will never be resolved (unless the engine is overhauled) and they are severely affecting my ability to enjoy the game, let alone even play it properly.

 

Honestly, playing this game has really made me want to go back to WoW. Even 5 years ago when I quit WoW was still so much better designed than this game in practically every area. Bioware apparently haven't looked outside their own game since they started developing it; there is no reason why it should still be in the state it's in today.

Edited July 2, 2014 by DAOWAce

[jstyrka]

Retiring my Sage after not even a month at endgame.

 

Was a hybrid spec while leveling and couldn't do anything at endgame.

 

Respecced to damage since I couldn't stand fighting the controls, UI and framerate issues the game has; did fairly well, game was a lot more enjoyable not having to stare at health bars and frantically try to heal.

 

Eventually respecced to healing 2 nights ago after being completely inferior to other damage classes (things were dying before my casts even finished, I felt useless) and also because the queue times were in hours (and there's no cross-server tech ever coming, yet another problem with the game). Wiped multiple times on bosses commandos/scoundrels have zero issue handling, while being overgeared, and being extremely pressured to keep my force up and not have people die.

 

Being forced to talent CORE HEALING SKILLS and commit FULLY to a single tree to even be useful is not good game design, at all.

 

So, I'm done with my Sage, and soon to be done with the game as the controls, UI and framerate are still very much a problem and will never be resolved and they are severely affecting my ability to enjoy the game, let alone even play it properly.

 

Honestly, playing this game has really made me want to go back to WoW. Even 5 years ago when I quit WoW was still so much better designed than this game. Bioware apparently haven't looked outside their own game since they started developing it; there is no reason why it should still be in the state it's in today.

 

I had a incedent yesterday. My guild was doing Corruptor Zero nim with 2 sage healers. We kept wiping as we just couldn't keep everyone alive. Eventually we swapped one sage healer for scoundrel and we killed the boss first time. Both sages have been playing since the game started where the scoundrel was only an alt no where near bis. However they are healing gods in swtor. Such good burst heals compared to our bubbles.

 

It's a shame as I still love playing my sage but am now leveling a scoundrel as they are the best by a mile currently both in pve and pve

[Darth_Advent]

There is a gulf between how the developers intend the game to be played and how the players have discovered to play their game optimally.

 

Damage-oriented Sages and Sorcerers shouldn't be using their Advanced Class healing abilities unless it's PVP, when they need to heal to full.

 

It's a bad joke.

[AdrianDmitruk]

There is a gulf between how the developers intend the game to be played and how the players have discovered to play their game optimally.

 

Damage-oriented Sages and Sorcerers shouldn't be using their Advanced Class healing abilities unless it's PVP, when they need to heal to full.

 

It's a bad joke.

 

And don't forget that seer sages somehow must play defensively and Make Them Pay for trying to kill you (while not having sufficient non-interruptable CC to actually punish a melee stunbreaking before whitebar).

 

No wonder skank hybrids are so popular--we need the hybrids to have any chance at all to Make Them Pay as commanded by the devs.

Edited July 3, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[Dhurwin]

At least sorcs are one of the best in a 1v1 situation, that scores some points

[skarlson]

I think you failed miserably and are clueless if your intent is the lightsaber is only a secondary weapon and that has been achieved. The lightsaber is a stat stick not a secondary weapon. Making willpower affect melee damage is not going to make a lightsaber suddenly the go to weapon or rather if it does then perhaps the problem is with sorcs/sages not the lightsaber. Honestly, I don't understand how you people can be so clueless.

 

Also, there are a lot of players who want to rely solely on force powers? Lolwut at that, based on what and if that were so you again failed miserably since sorcs rely far to much an a competent team to succeed compared to any other class. They don't rely on their force powers so much as they rely on not being mobbed so they crumple in 2 seconds without either a good solid team or barrier, after which they crumple.

[tranv]

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

 

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. [.....] Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

Maybe a possibility would be to provide a talent in the Seer Spec that replenishes the force of the healer when he/she is being attacked. This would allow a PvP Sage healer to keep a reasonable force level, that would require less Noble Sacrifices. And this would not change much the challenge for healing in PvE, since healers should not be the main focus there, when a good tank is accompanying them...

 

What do the other Sage/Sorcerer healers think about that ?

Edited August 14, 2014 by tranv

[aristrokratie]

Suggestions for Improving the Seer Sage

 

Hello, community I was a great Jedi master dealing with great issues to heal my allies and keeping them alive.

This is only my opinion about sage healers so you may think in another way than me.

 

I have been playing the Jedi sage in both PvE and PvP for about 2 years now. And I really liked the feeling with this class but major problems drove me to the dark side of the force and I started playing the operative healer.

This is my last attempt to return to the light side.

 

First of all the healing output of the sage is far to low in PvP in comparison to the operative and mercenary.

As a sage I was starving for force in arenas

(before the good PvP players banned seers of their team I had to go DPS if I wanted to do ranked)

while the damage was just unhealable.

With my operative I didn't have any of these issues while also be in very mobile and having a lot more cc and CDs to keep myself alive.

 

Here is my to do list for the devs:( I will explain why which change should be done but don't forget these are only suggestions and I don't want to enforce those changes)

 

Increase movement

Scoundrel/op healers and commando/mercs have a lot of instant cast heals while the sage has to be stationary to put up even lower hps.

Sage healers relay on casted spells so we really suffer from interrupts.

To compensate this I suggest:

 

A added proc, named illumination.

Illumination:

Finishing deliverance or benevolence grants 1 stack, beginning healing trance 1stack, and being interrupted 3 stacks Illumination. When 3 stacks are reaced you can use Illumination which heals an ally for 350% of your bonus healing this ability costs no force can not crit.

 

 

better single target hps:

When I was doing flashpoints with my operative I could easily heal the tank through all the damage while I remember with my sage I had big problems in various fights.

A hour theory crafting later I recognised that my sage had a much lower hps than my operative.

But then I thought of the healing sage pre 1.2 and tested its hps.

And it was the same as the hps of my op! In addition in a raid environment it's very frustrating that your casts take so long because if I start casting a deliverance on a player it's very likely that our scoundrel or commando will have healed them to full before I finished my cast.

 

So please change the way conveyance works back. In PvP we couldn't be interrupted that often with quicker heals, we could sit down get a quick heal out and then run again.

 

 

Survivability in PvP and PvE

 

In PvE its pretty much all about keeping your force up with noble sacrifice but as a sage with light armor you take large chunks of damage from boss mechanics. So reducing your own health can be your death in long bossfights an it really happened that I killed myself by noble sacrificing.

So please whether it is a set bonus or the change of resplendence it's really necessary for both PvE and PvP to keep your force up bwithout losing any health.

Need less to say for PvP if you're getting focused all the time you don't wanna waste your health.

 

And last but not least our knockback should be all around and have a slow for all affected targets because melees have a far too easy game getting to us and staying with us.

 

 

 

and aoe healing:

Especially aoe healing in PvP is the worst thing of the sage.

Another user had already made this suggestion I hope its OK for you that I use it.

Salvation should give people in it a hot that last as long as salvation stays active. One person can only receive it once in every salvation.

If a ninth person enters the circle he gets half the healing over time.

And please make the animation of salvation bigger so that it fits to its real range.

 

I hope I can do ranked war zones in the future as healer again (no one wanted to take me because I am a sage)

And don't want to be locked out of raids because they already have a sage and a second would be a wasted place.

I really hope the sage will become more viable in comparison to the other two healers.

 

 

 

I would appreciate it if you told me how you think about it and am very sorry for my bad English

 

And for the devs i would be very happy if you could explain me why or why not to make those changes and if a misunderstood some mechanics or how the sage should work.

 

I hope you didn't fall asleep while reading this.

 

 

Greetings, Potis

[aristrokratie]

Maybe a possibility would be to provide a talent in the Seer Spec that replenishes the force of the healer when he/she is being attacked. This would allow a PvP Sage healer to keep a reasonable force level, that would require less Noble Sacrifices. And this would not change much the challenge for healing in PvE, since healers should not be the main focus there, when a good tank is accompanying them...

 

What do the other Sage/Sorcerer healers think about that ?

 

Well it's a nice idea but if you don't take damage you're running out of force and then you noble sacrifice till your at55% health and then the melees get onto you.

 

A regeneration increase would also work good maybe as a set bonus

[tranv]

Well it's a nice idea but if you don't take damage you're running out of force and then you noble sacrifice till your at55% health and then the melees get onto you.

 

A regeneration increase would also work good maybe as a set bonus

 

Of course, being a PvP and PvE player, I think that a regeneration increase would be appreciated by every Sage healer

 

 

As I understand, the devs wish to preserve the mechanics of the Seer Spec in PvE. For me, the main difference between healing in PvE and PvP is the focus that you get in PvP, cutting the ressources that you could use for regenerating your force. Playing a scoundrel also, I clearly see that I never lack ressources with the sawbones spec.

However, I like healing with my sage on battlegrounds and even happen to win some arenas. The mechanics are really different from the sawbones spec. In Solo-Q arenas, if the combat is sufficiently rapid (good dps, no tank for instance) then I have a chance to outperform a scoundrel. If the arena gets too long, then the Noble sacrifice, driving inevitably my life too low while beeing focused, is a real problem.

 

To answer you, Potis, assume that damages would replenish your force. If you are in PvP and don't take damage, then your cycle should be roughly the same as when you heal your mates in PvE. If you are focused at 55%, then you can use your defensive skills all the more since the focus would replenish your force... I think something like the Guardian's Focused Defense, but giving you force instead of health, could be interesting....

 

 

 

For the point related to the aoe healing, I totally agree. Compared with the scoundrel's kolto cloud, the sage aoe heals less, but its advantage is not to be limited to 4 persons but 8. However, in arenas, you are only 4, so it is surely less interesting than the kolto cloud, all the more since it requires to stay in it... I can notice that one of the main reason why I waste my force, in PvE or PvP, is that other players tend not to stay in these aoes (of course, when mobs or adverse players move, dps have to follow them....) This leads me to use all my mono-heals to keep them high one after the other.... So the idea that passage would suffice to benefit from the hot is something I like very much.

[aristrokratie]

Of course, being a PvP and PvE player, I think that a regeneration increase would be appreciated by every Sage healer

 

 

As I understand, the devs wish to preserve the mechanics of the Seer Spec in PvE. For me, the main difference between healing in PvE and PvP is the focus that you get in PvP, cutting the ressources that you could use for regenerating your force. Playing a scoundrel also, I clearly see that I never lack ressources with the sawbones spec.

However, I like healing with my sage on battlegrounds and even happen to win some arenas. The mechanics are really different from the sawbones spec. In Solo-Q arenas, if the combat is sufficiently rapid (good dps, no tank for instance) then I have a chance to outperform a scoundrel. If the arena gets too long, then the Noble sacrifice, driving inevitably my life too low while beeing focused, is a real problem.

 

To answer you, Potis, assume that damages would replenish your force. If you are in PvP and don't take damage, then your cycle should be roughly the same as when you heal your mates in PvE. If you are focused at 55%, then you can use your defensive skills all the more since the focus would replenish your force... I think something like the Guardian's Focused Defense, but giving you force instead of health, could be interesting.

 

Wow you're pretty fast!

Well as you said the devs don't want to change the mechanics of the sage, the mechanics have been changed by a lot to nerf us, so why not change them to buff us?

 

The healing output of the sage is the lowest out of all healers, the change to the conveyance proc would allow us to put about the same amount hps up as a sawbones scoundrel or medicine operative would do. I haven't compared it to the combat medic commando/ bodyguard merc yet because my merc is not 55.

In a normal raid environment a commando can just heal people with his kolto shell, the scoundrel with slow release medpack. Sure we do have force armor but when it comes to healing people up we are just to slow. While we cast a long deliverance a scoundrel just heals with his instant emergency medpack.

 

Conveyance is a buff which procs from rejuvenate. In my mind it makes deliverance activate by 1 second faster (it did that pre 1.2) so it would allow me to get 2x 5.4k heals out in 3 secons. As my scoundrel is in poor gear I calculated emergency medpack to 2.7k if that's too much please let me know.

 

When raid healing the scoundrel can just hot everybody while a sage has to cast a heal for everyone that's hurt so if the group is split up and you can't use salvation it would take 20 seconds to heal the raid up by using healing trance and deliverance that would consume 6x55 force and 2x36 force so 402 force- 8x20 force regent=242 force power cost).

If the scoundrel has already hotted everyone it normally takes to ticks so 8 seconds in the worst case

 

And on top of that sawbones has no energy issues if played right

 

In a battleground sawbones are in my opinion as good as 3 sage healers they have everything, cc dcds AND dissapearing act.

 

Scoundrels can hot multiple people and they get in PvP 1.23 k healing from every tick

 

And sages have to spamm deliverance their weak hot and the well healing healing trance (about 7-9k normally)

While they can be interrupted and CCD quite easily because they stand still in one spot.

 

To give you an idea how sage healing should be there's a video here(only one I found)

that shows how healing would be with this buff

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=uhntU6vDJ-rH0QWwy4GYBw&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5vCWVhTOzoI&cd=1&ved=0CB8QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNFNvi73RbY5CQYqlmw7jxVhxd8qLw

The only thing that would be different ist that we have a instant every 12 seconds and salvation

 

If I am right the sage should be a direct healer chunking out big pure heals and preventing people from taking DMG with force armor.

 

The scoundrel is a healer over time while having casted burst heals

 

The commando is a mix of both healing people by trauma probe (it's a bit like shielding),

with a koltopack like ability advanced medical probe and a hot to its bursty aoe heal.

 

But if I read the class changes to sage seer in patch 2.10 I could cry. They don't buff us they just give us a little bonus to our escape and our mental alacrity. In my opinion its just there to make us stop complaining but the heal output imbalance stays there,

[aristrokratie]

I don't know why they close their eyes the pre 1.2 state of healing with the sage is the best solution plus the buff to the area effect heal

[OrionSol]

"Our feeling was that there are many players who want the experience of playing as a Jedi/Sith who relies almost solely on their mastery of the Force to resolve the challenges they face, with the lightsaber serving only as a secondary weapon"

 

It is NOT used as Secondary weapon. NO ONE, not a single sage uses their saber attacks past level 10.