Baras or Thanaton. Who died first?

[Antonfourteen]

Can anybody tell out of Baras and Thanaton, who died first?

Because in the Sith Warrior story, when you go to confront Baras there is no sign of Thanaton showing he is most likely been killed by Kallig already. But when you confront Thanaton as Kallig, Darth Baras is not their showing he too has been killed by the Wrath. So who was killed first in the canon?

[Loc_n_lol]

I would say Baras died first, because Vorawn is present at Thanaton's death.

 

Thanaton not being present while the Wrath fights Darth Baras could simply be because he has not arrived to Korriban yet, or is still making preparations for the inquisitor's arrival. He was personally on Corellia after all, and he was quite busy too.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Loc_n_lol

[Darth_Wicked]

Your premise is flawed, seeing that Baras can be spared; It's up to the player to choose and no canonical outcome has been set in stone.

 

Can anybody tell out of Baras and Thanaton, who died first?

Because in the Sith Warrior story, when you go to confront Baras there is no sign of Thanaton showing he is most likely been killed by Kallig already. But when you confront Thanaton as Kallig, Darth Baras is not their showing he too has been killed by the Wrath. So who was killed first in the canon?

 

I would say Baras died first, because Vorawn is present at Thanaton's death.

 

Thanaton not being present while the Wrath fights Darth Baras could simply be because he has not arrived to Korriban yet, or is still making preparations for the inquisitor's arrival. He was personally on Corellia after all, and he was quite busy too.

 

This is incorrect.

 

 

Thanaton was there; He was to the left of Darth Marr. Only Acharon, Decimus and Hadra were at Corellia at the time.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7345766&postcount=46

 

^^ Screenshot above.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Beniboybling]

Your premise is flawed, seeing that Baras can be spared; It's up to the player to choose and no canonical outcome has been set in stone.

I'm not sure about that, the SWTORE seems to strongly suggest that at the very least for the Sith Warrior DS choices are canon. In the case of sparing or killing Darth Baras it says:

 

...the Wrath battles Darth Baras in a fierce duel. The Wrath emerges triumphant, striking down the ruined and seething Darth Baras...

 

Sounds like hesa dead. Not that it matters, given your just nitpicking.

 

But yeah, the Sith Warrior 'defeats' Baras first, they probably waved at each other while passing through.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Darth_Wicked]

I'm not sure about that, the SWTORE seems to strongly suggest that at the very least for the Sith Warrior DS choices are canon. In the case of sparing or killing Darth Baras it says:

 

...the Wrath battles Darth Baras in a fierce duel. The Wrath emerges triumphant, striking down the ruined and seething Darth Baras...

 

Sounds like hesa dead. Not that it matters, given your just nitpicking.

 

But yeah, the Sith Warrior 'defeats' Baras first, they probably waved at each other while passing through.

 

Suggestion ≠ Fact

 

Also, relying on what the game allows and / or shows can hardly qualify as "nitpicking".

 

The only thing that is set in stone is that Baras is removed from his Sphere of Influence and another Sith takes his place shortly after, namely Darth Arho.

 

Other than that, I'm not the one "nitpicking" really.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Beniboybling]

Suggestion ≠ Fact

 

Also, relying on what the game allows and / or shows can hardly qualify as "nitpicking".

No it doesn't, which is why I employed the phrase. However because the SWTORE is the official reference guide for the game it is a fact that Baras was "struck down", which I find difficult to interpret as anything other than "he was killed."

 

Which in turn suggests that all DS choices for the Sith Warrior are canon. But that's not exactly relevant.

 

Nitpicking was pointing out that the OP should have said 'defeated', not 'died' which is an irrelevant semantic issue.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Darth_Wicked]

No it doesn't, which is why I employed the phrase. However because the SWTORE is the official reference guide for the game it is a fact that Baras was "struck down", which I find difficult to interpret as anything other than "he was killed."

 

That's your interpretation, not FACT.

 

Regardless, that which the game allows obviously supersedes that which the Encyclopedia implies. In other words, three possible outcomes are allowed.

 

1 ) Baras is killed by the Wrath.

2 ) Baras is exiled.

3 ) Baras is imprisoned.

 

The above is FACTUAL and it's up to each player to choose the final outcome. In other words, your interpretation is irrelevant.

 

Which in turn suggests that all DS choices for the Sith Warrior are canon. But that's not exactly relevant.

 

Again, that which is FACTUAL takes precedence over your "suggestions".

 

Nitpicking was pointing out that the OP should have said 'defeated', not 'died' which is an irrelevant semantic issue.

 

Pointing out an inaccuracy is not the same as nitpicking, seeing that the former is more of a correction; Nitpicking is more along the lines of arguing for the sake of arguing, even against that which is FACTUAL, which is what you're doing now.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Beniboybling]

I fail to see how exile and imprisonment can be reconciled with the phrase "struck down", on top of that the guide also states that the Sith Warrior "broke" Jaesa and turned her to the dark side, which only reinforces that DS options are canon. I'm not arguing that that part in particular is a fact, but it has not yet been disproven.

 

Anyway The Encyclopedia isn't suggesting anything here, "struck down" is a fairly concrete, non-suggestive statement. Which, may I add, supersedes the game, its long since been established that game mechanics, which player-choice obviously falls into, are not necessarily canon, whereas references guides objectives are. Feel free to look it up.

 

And you needn't bold the word FACT so incessantly, especially given that you aren't even dealing with facts but possibilities. These are possible outcomes, the SWTORE is establishing which of these outcomes is fact.

 

P.S. Nitpicking has nothing to do with arguing for the sake of arguing, and certainly nothing to do with arguing on false premises. Nitpicking is fussing over minuscule faults, which is what you did I'm afraid.

[Darth_Wicked]

I fail to see how exile and imprisonment can be reconciled with the phrase "struck down", on top of that the guide also states that the Sith Warrior "broke" Jaesa and turned her to the dark side, which only reinforces that DS options are canon. I'm not arguing that that part in particular is a fact, but it has not yet been disproven.

Poor wording perhaps? Regardless, just like Hall Hood says this...

 

https://twitter.com/hallhood/status/256796592433139712

 

Concerning one's depiction in the Encyclopedia, I'll take whatever is written there with a grain of salt, concerning canonical outcomes.

 

Anyway The Encyclopedia isn't suggesting anything here, "struck down" is a fairly concrete, non-suggestive statement. Which, may I add, supersedes the game, its long since been established that game mechanics, which player-choice obviously falls into, are not necessarily canon, whereas references guides objectives are. Feel free to look it up.

 

If that was the case, then I guess it would be considered canonical that the Hero of Tython was a male human or that the Emperor's Wrath was as fat as Darth Baras.

 

Which is something that Hall Hood, as shown, clearly disregards.

 

And you needn't bold the word FACT so incessantly, especially given that you aren't even dealing with facts but possibilities. These are possible outcomes, the SWTORE is establishing which of these outcomes is fact.

 

Last I checked, it is FACTUAL that the ending allows three possible outcomes. That's the only FACT we're dealing with here.

 

Also, you don't see me complaining about your poor taste, concerning the color for your writing, do you?

 

P.S. Nitpicking has nothing to do with arguing for the sake of arguing, and certainly nothing to do with arguing on false premises. Nitpicking is fussing over minuscule faults, which is what you did I'm afraid.

 

Stating that there's more than one possible outcome for the SW storyline ending is not a "minuscule fault" I'm afraid.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Beniboybling]

Poor wording perhaps? Regardless, just like Hall Hood says this...

 

https://twitter.com/hallhood/status/256796592433139712

 

Concerning one's depiction in the Encyclopedia, I'll take whatever is written there with a grain of salt, concerning canonical outcomes.

 

 

 

If that was the case, then I guess it would be considered canonical that the Hero of Tython was a male human or that the Emperor's Wrath was as fat as Darth Baras.

 

Which is something that Hall Hood, as shown, clearly disregards.

 

 

 

Last I checked, it is FACTUAL that the ending allows three possible outcomes. That's the only FACT we're dealing with here.

 

Also, you don't see me complaining about your poor taste, concerning the color for your writing, do you?

 

 

 

Stating that there's more than one possible outcome for the SW storyline ending is not a "minuscule fault" I'm afraid.

1. Feel free to perceive it in that manner, but ultimately that is was has been written, and there is little room for interpretation, and despite what Hood says player choices have been overridden in the past.

 

2. The images are purely aesthetic, I wouldn't say (and clearly they don't) they can be defined as statements.

 

3. We are dealing with continuity here, not out-of-universe RPG mechanics. A fact made in regards to continuity cannot be overidden or disproven as fact by a game mechanic. There is no precedence to speak of, unless you have an actual in-game, story event that outright states Baras' fate to be undetermined post-choice.

 

If you don't then your just using the word "fact" as a means of inflating your opinion. I mean its unnecessary to use the word "fact" when making a simple observation, unless your using the term in reference to a canonical fact.

 

P.S. Yes it would as silly to complain about the colour of someone's text as it would be to complain about their signature or their avatar, I'm sorry that it frustrates you so, my apologies for not sticking to the norm. On the other hand I find your bolding of the same word over and over again as if drilling it into the mind of a child to be quite obnoxious.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Beniboybling

[masterplaygus]

You can see Thanaton in the background sitting when you kill baras.

[Chaloss]

It is warrior ending since otherwise it raises question of why inquisitor not present for so important question. Edited December 2, 2015 by Chaloss

[Ardim]

Baras, because Thanaton is there when Baras is confronted by the SW and Vowrawn.

[nimmerstil]

3. We are dealing with continuity here ...

 

Your posts show you haven't the slightest notion of what continuity means or why it is important.

 

If the story (chosen by and) presented to him has Baras's live being spared then any other source claiming otherwise is breaking the continuity of the story. A major sin in storytelling.

 

The 'encyclopedia' can not represent the multitude of possible outcomes of the events that play in the game, compared to the actual game the encyclopedia is an inferior work.

[Katahn]

The Emperor's Wrath confronts Baras before the Inquisitor confronts Thanoton. Thanoton is present in the Council chamber while the Wrath and Baras battle. After the Inquisitor confronts Thanoton the latter is dead and the Inquisitor ascends to his position. Since we see Thanoton and not the Inquisitor (which Inquisitor would we even see?!?!?!) the Wrath's battle has to happen first.

[Archanubis]

It is warrior ending since otherwise it raises question of why inquisitor not present for so important question.

Well, there's the old standby of "the newly installed Darth is off doing his own thing" - but considering Thanaton is present for Baras's fall (even if he's not clearly visible), it's a rather moot point.

 

You could reconcile the events of the Warrior and Inquisitor storylines as such (unmasked spoilers ahoy): Thanaton earns his seat on the Dark Council in time to be present for the "trial" of Baras and the Emperor's Wrath (Warrior). Not long after, he receives word that the upstart Lord Kallig (Inquisitor) has finished and successfully tested the Silencer, a project he personally scrapped. Now embarrassed both politically and personally by an upstart he has constantly failed to put down (especially if you chose to spare Thanaton's apprentice, which the apprentice expresses gratitude), Thanaton then contacts Kallig to challenge him to the Kaggath. And the rest, as they say, is history.

[sentientomega]

I definitely saw Thanaton bow to the Wrath after Baras' defeat, his outfit is pretty visible.

 

I have to say, I didn't notice Vowrawn in the chambers for Thanaton's final duel though.

[adormitul]

I definitely saw Thanaton bow to the Wrath after Baras' defeat, his outfit is pretty visible.

 

I have to say, I didn't notice Vowrawn in the chambers for Thanaton's final duel though.

Was not most of the council then in Hologram form? I am pretty sure he was there also.

[sentientomega]

Now you mention it, I think some of the council was there in holographic form, for the Inquisitor story line anyway, as far as I recall.

 

Oh, and from my old screenshots I took of one of my Inquisitors, Vowrawn is definitely present, in the flesh. Darths Decimus and Hadra are hologramatically present, as is Darth Acheron. These people I specifically mention because they don't say anything during the Inquisitor's story line at the end there, fortunately I managed to make out the holographic figures' identities from the screenies I took.

 

Vowrawn, as I said, was there in person, as were Darths Marr, Mortis, Ravage, these were all seated spectators.

Edited December 7, 2015 by sentientomega

[adormitul]

Now you mention it, I think some of the council was there in holographic form, for the Inquisitor story line anyway, as far as I recall.

 

Oh, and from my old screenshots I took of one of my Inquisitors, Vowrawn is definitely present, in the flesh. Darths Decimus and Hadra are hologramatically present, as is Darth Acheron. These people I specifically mention because they don't say anything during the Inquisitor's story line at the end there, fortunately I managed to make out the holographic figures' identities from the screenies I took.

 

Vowrawn, as I said, was there in person, as were Darths Marr, Mortis, Ravage, these were all seated spectators.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xue7kkBoo8w yep look at 20:23.

[sentientomega]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xue7kkBoo8w yep look at 20:23.

 

I wonder when they added a hood for Darth Marr...?

[adormitul]

I wonder when they added a hood for Darth Marr...?

 

Maybe someone told him he looks more cool with a hood.

[Kaedusz]

Baras is first, Thanaton is second.

What more is there to talk about? The thread is solved.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kaedusz