Advanced class switch

[Sithsombrero]

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

[Ratajack]

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

 

Did you miss the FOUR SEPARATE warnings from TWO SEPARATE NPC's that your choice of AC was PERMANENT? Did you NOT click the confirmation button in the confirmation window that you were making the choice you wanted to make and that you understood that your choice was PERMANENT?

 

If you want to play another AC, you already have the ability to do so. That functionality already exists within the game. It's called roll a new character.

 

Also, a forum search would have turned up many other threads started by players to averse to the effort of actually leveling a new character asking that they be handed a new class for no effort.

[LordKitana]

I think where he was goig is duel specing . Duel specing needs to happen in this game . To be able to switch to tank or dps class istelf not just skill tree but the class itself. Also i think it would ve awesome to pay like 2000 credits per repsec id adv class . Too many ppl queing up fp and not knowing their roles .

[Ratajack]

I think where he was goig is duel specing . Duel specing needs to happen in this game . To be able to switch to tank or dps class istelf not just skill tree but the class itself. Also i think it would ve awesome to pay like 2000 credits per repsec id adv class . Too many ppl queing up fp and not knowing their roles .

 

Read the OP again.

 

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

 

The OP is clearly not talking about dual spec, as it relates to changing spec within a given AC, say from madness assassin to deception assassin. IMO, we have a much better version of spec changing with the field respec option than WoW's "dual spec". We have the ability to change our spec in many variations, on the fly, without cost for subscribers. We may not have the "one button does it all, easy mode" spec change, but it takes very little time to allocate skill points and change action bars and gear. It takes me far less than a minute, rarely more than 30 seconds.

 

WoW may have the "one button does it all easy mode", but only the option to switch between two preset specs. To change to anything other than those two preset specs, you must go to a trainer to reset your talent points, for a cost.

 

The OP clearly is asking to be able to change AC, to change from a mercenary to powertech, for example. This is a far cry from changing from madness assassin to deception assassin. Going from a stealthy assassin tank who fights at melee range to a sorcerer that heals and fights from a ranged position is much different than simply changing specs, IMO.

[Vhaegrant]

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

 

That very feature is being discussed at some length on this thread

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=644159

You may recognise some names

 

The current Bioware stance is that it is something they have considered and is likely at some future point.

[Ratajack]

That very feature is being discussed at some length on this thread

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=644159

You may recognise some names

 

The current Bioware stance is that it is something they have considered and is likely at some future point.

 

There was a statement made over 18 months ago that AC changing would "likely happen eventually". There was NO indication of any time frame, or even a definitive statement that class (AC) changes would be implemented. There has been NOTHING further from anyone associated with BW since that time, despite the many threads, including one that is over 500 pages. There has been not one word, hint of a whisper or even a peep since that statement. The silence on this topic from BW has been deafening.

 

That statement also included an indication that species changes would eventually be implemented as well. Those species changes (which are purely COSMETIC) have been implemented, but the class (AC) changes (which would be a change in the fundamental game play mechanics for a given character) have not.

 

So, we have an ambiguous statement that class (AC) changes (something that would affect the fundamental game play mechanics) "would likely" (might) be implemented "eventually" (at some undetermined point in the future, possibly far into the future) that also mentions a species change (a purely COSMETIC change) option being implemented. The latter has happened, but the former has not. They implemented a purely COSMETIC change option, and yet have so far chosen NOT to implement something that would change the fundamental game play mechanics of a given character. They have also chosen to remain extremely silent about class (AC) changes, while being much more transparent and vocal about other topics and issues.

 

Those are the facts. Interpret them any way you choose.

[Sendrel]

Those are the facts. Interpret them any way you choose.

 

I choose to interpret it as the devs not having anything of importance to say on the topic at this point. You guys have devoted pages of back and forth in the other thread to what basically amounts to trying to shout down the other guy when neither of you have any clue about the devs actual intention.

 

Pretty silly.

 

@ the OP: I think AC swapping is a great idea, and would love to see it implemented in SWTOR.

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

There are reasons to say just "no" to a re-spec of an advanced class, or to say "yes" to an advanced class respec.

 

Posted above me are plenty of why "not" reasons, starting with a lawyer attitude of what part of "permanent" you do not get, to everybody would be changing all the time and everyone would be newbs permanently...

 

But I have not seen anyone explore the reason for why "yes", so below I will list a few that comes into mind.

 

As a new player to SWTOR coming from another MMORPG:

 

1) By level 10, you still have no idea of how the game is really played, you really don't understand the principles of melee DPS, ranged DPS, Healing, Tanking, heck you just got a companion and don't really know what to do with him. So asking a person to make a permanent decision with so little knowledge is a bit ludicrous.

 

2) Most contemporary MMORPGs that has something like an advanced class concept uses SPEC Trees and does not force you into a locked down advanced class, in fact, I wish instead of having 3 skill trees to chose from, let me have all 6 and let me make my own hybrid like say Rifts let me do. So when a player comes to SWTOR, the advanced class concept is a bit alien, and all they have to go on is the extremely vague, and sensationalized description of the advanced class can do, which is likely to mislead more than anything else.

 

3) You really can't get a feel of a class, until you have experienced a significant number of skills up your tree, for instance many indicates that you are not much of a tank until level 32 where you begin to get the skills that makes a significant impact on your ability, and yet yu had to decide at 10? Not very bright IMO.

 

 

Old to the Game:

 

1) You are a Role Player, I know not all of us are, but still a significant component of the player base. As RP players, we always create characters iwth a concept in mind, those the abilities, looks and what not are all important. We make the alt and begin to level them, by the time you reach 32, guess what, the alt turned out not to be what we thought they could have been, after all by level 10, really how much did we know about the class? So naturally you would like to change and not loose the investment on time because the game's poor descriptions?

 

2) You are a role player, or even a PvE or PvP player, you build a character in concept, a PvP player maybe enamoured with the drag to me and stun or what not,and thus build his alt with that in mind. Later after you finally reach 55 and you are just about right, the developers decide to make changes and a key power is removed, was ithte player's fault, Id on't think so, should the player be able to react to this change? I think so.

 

I think if we try hard enough, we can find reason for having this ability, frankly the cons and pros must be looked to achieve an intelligent solution

 

Sue

[Phyltr]

There was a statement made over 18 months ago that AC changing would "likely happen eventually". There was NO indication of any time frame, or even a definitive statement that class (AC) changes would be implemented. There has been NOTHING further from anyone associated with BW since that time, despite the many threads, including one that is over 500 pages. There has been not one word, hint of a whisper or even a peep since that statement. The silence on this topic from BW has been deafening.

 

That statement also included an indication that species changes would eventually be implemented as well. Those species changes (which are purely COSMETIC) have been implemented, but the class (AC) changes (which would be a change in the fundamental game play mechanics for a given character) have not.

 

So, we have an ambiguous statement that class (AC) changes (something that would affect the fundamental game play mechanics) "would likely" (might) be implemented "eventually" (at some undetermined point in the future, possibly far into the future) that also mentions a species change (a purely COSMETIC change) option being implemented. The latter has happened, but the former has not. They implemented a purely COSMETIC change option, and yet have so far chosen NOT to implement something that would change the fundamental game play mechanics of a given character. They have also chosen to remain extremely silent about class (AC) changes, while being much more transparent and vocal about other topics and issues.

 

Those are the facts. Interpret them any way you choose.

 

To be fair, they literally didn't say anything about guild ships in any of the threads (and even denied them in cantina events) until they were announced so I wouldn't take their silence as meaning anything.

[SW_display_name]

Heeeeeeeeere we gooooooooo again!

 

d'aw Ratajack already got here I didn't get to herald his arrival

Edited May 22, 2014 by SW_display_name

[Lorrimar]

I still do not understand why this requested feature makes some people's blood absolutely BOIL. If they put it in the game & you don't like it, don't use it. I don't like PvP in this game, so I don't do it. I don't go to the forums & lose my mind on anyone who suggests a change or enhancement to PvP. Why are you so against a change that only effects you should you decide to make use of it?

[Vhaegrant]

@ the OP: I think AC swapping is a great idea, and would love to see it implemented in SWTOR.

 

Me too

[Phyltr]

I still do not understand why this requested feature makes some people's blood absolutely BOIL. If they put it in the game & you don't like it, don't use it. I don't like PvP in this game, so I don't do it. I don't go to the forums & lose my mind on anyone who suggests a change or enhancement to PvP. Why are you so against a change that only effects you should you decide to make use of it?

 

I mean, to some degree it devalues the time people have spent leveling alts. It makes your time investment in your Powertech and Mercenary worth less because you now have completely redundant characters. It also will contribute to a lot of flavor of the month stuff. I mean, there's already a lot of FotM playing already, but this would amplify it to a significant degree. It also could lead to lower server populations and almost certainly lower populations on leveling planets. If you don't have to level a tank and a healer, a lot of people won't bother so the game will be less alive and leveling will be even more of a solo experience.

 

For my part, as I mentioned in another thread, I think there should be AC switches available, but with a significant cost and a massive lockout (think like 180-365 days).

[Lorrimar]

For my part, as I mentioned in another thread, I think there should be AC switches available, but with a significant cost and a massive lockout (think like 180-365 days).

 

I am perfectly fine with that. I also feel that it should be on a significant cooldown possibly coupled with a legacy level or a completing of the mirror class leveling (as was mentioned in another thread today).

[Zharik]

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

 

Congratulations! You are officially the one millionth person to ask for this!

 

Your reward is a special title:

the Unobservant AND Fashionably Late

 

Wear it with pride (and only on the toon that you don't "like" anymore)

[Ratajack]

 

As a new player to SWTOR coming from another MMORPG:

 

1) By level 10, you still have no idea of how the game is really played, you really don't understand the principles of melee DPS, ranged DPS, Healing, Tanking, heck you just got a companion and don't really know what to do with him. So asking a person to make a permanent decision with so little knowledge is a bit ludicrous.

 

 

It's ok to make a PERMANENT decision as to class at CREATION in other games, but level 10 in this game is TOO SOON?

 

Sorry, but, IMO, that's just trying to find any excuse to allow people to change their class.

 

 

I do understand that people may have unique and no longer obtainable items and may wish to keep those items. I have suggested a way to allow players who are attached to their character or those players with unique and no longer obtainable items to keep them while addressing many of the concerns that those against class changes have expressed.

 

AC change resets character level to level 10

All planetary quests are reset

Class story quests are not affected.

Companions are not affected.

Passive XP buff is granted until the character reaches the level held when the AC was changed.

--This XP buff is to help offset the loss of XP from any completed class quests.

 

 

This suggestion allows players with a strong attachment to a given character to keep that character, and those with unique and no longer obtainable items to keep those items. It does require a modicum of effort to level that character from level 10, but since so many claim this is not an "laziness" issue, that should be not be an issue.

[Ratajack]

I still do not understand why this requested feature makes some people's blood absolutely BOIL. If they put it in the game & you don't like it, don't use it. I don't like PvP in this game, so I don't do it. I don't go to the forums & lose my mind on anyone who suggests a change or enhancement to PvP. Why are you so against a change that only effects you should you decide to make use of it?

 

Every player with whom I come into contact in the game affects me and my gaming experience. Every player with whom I find myself grouped via group finder affects me and my gaming experience.

 

Why not just be honest and call a spade a spade. People are too lazy to actually level that new class they want to play and so they want BW to hand them a new class. Why should any player have to be grouped with someone who would rather ask for a handout than to actually earn what they want?

 

If that is the way you truly feel, then you and your guild can run a random player's characters through all of the NM OPS to gear them up. He can just follow you and roll need on the loot. After all, handouts are ok and it's insane to expect anyone to actually put forth the effort to earn something, right?

[Lorrimar]

Every player with whom I come into contact in the game affects me and my gaming experience. Every player with whom I find myself grouped via group finder affects me and my gaming experience.

 

You know, that's totally fair. This is an MMO & you are going to end up playing with these folks. However I don't believe it will be quite the "sky is falling" disaster that you believe it will.

 

Why not just be honest and call a spade a spade. People are too lazy to actually level that new class they want to play and so they want BW to hand them a new class. Why should any player have to be grouped with someone who would rather ask for a handout than to actually earn what they want?

 

I have a 55 gunslinger that I never play. Leveled him, did some FP's & Ops. Decided I didn't like the cover mechanic & shelved him. He's a crafting Alt right now. I will never play him as a gunslinger. Recently I leveled an operative on Imp side to heal with. I like operative healing & wouldn't mind having a scoundrel on pub side to heal on a bit too, but to be honest, I don't really feel like leveling another smuggler.

 

This is a case where not only do I have the understanding of the new class, I have already leveled it's mirror & taken it to end game content. I've already done the smuggler story line, wasn't that good, don't feel like I need to see it again. You say I'm lazy after leveling 5 characters to 55 because I don't want to level a 6th & already have a leveled character that is just kinda sitting on my roster disused, unloved & unplayed. I don't see it as lazy. I've already leveled both Ac's & don't feel like doing it again. It would be convenient for me to be able to pay a fee to make a useful character out of a completely useless one.

 

If that is the way you truly feel, then you and your guild can run a random player's characters through all of the NM OPS to gear them up. He can just follow you and roll need on the loot. After all, handouts are ok and it's insane to expect anyone to actually put forth the effort to earn something, right?

 

Maybe we do, maybe I don't consider an AC change a handout like you do. I am not in favor of everyone being able to change Ac's at the drop of a hat. I believe that there should be some serious criteria that has to be met before & or a long cooldown on this type of service. However I believe it is a service that should be available for situations exactly like the one I have presented here.

[ScarletBlaze]

I think that bioware should make it possible to change ones advanced class say for a price of 500-1000 cartel coins you could switch while still keeping skill points and possibly being give that class's weapon. (switch from marader to juggernaut would not supply the weapon)

 

Even though I am not agreeing to this your suggestion of 500-1000 cartel coins is too low. If and only if they do this they should make the cost significantly higher say 2000-3000 cartel coins and with a legacy level of at least 35 and a cool down period of 180-360 days.

Edited May 22, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[Lorrimar]

Even though I am not agreeing to this your suggestion of 500-1000 cartel coins is too low. If and only if they do this they should make the cost significantly higher say 2000-3000 cartel coins and with a legacy level of at least 35 and a cool down period of 180-360 days.

 

Sounds good to me. Were it available, I would buy that right now.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Lorrimar

[Ratajack]

You know, that's totally fair. This is an MMO & you are going to end up playing with these folks. However I don't believe it will be quite the "sky is falling" disaster that you believe it will.

 

I don't recall saying that it would be a "the sky is falling" disaster. I do think that it will have more of impact than many of those in favor of allowing class changes seem to think it will. I think it will cost BW some subs if they allow players to change their class. I do not know how many. Only BW could make even an educated guess as to the numbers.

 

I think if they allow class changes, the impact will fall somewhere near the middle of the "What I do with MY character doesn't affect YOU at all" and "we'll be up to our ears in players who have no idea how to play their class". We'll have some players like yourself who are familiar with their new class, and we'll have some who had no idea how to play the class they leveled, let alone a totally DIFFERENT class.

 

 

 

I have a 55 gunslinger that I never play. Leveled him, did some FP's & Ops. Decided I didn't like the cover mechanic & shelved him. He's a crafting Alt right now. I will never play him as a gunslinger. Recently I leveled an operative on Imp side to heal with. I like operative healing & wouldn't mind having a scoundrel on pub side to heal on a bit too, but to be honest, I don't really feel like leveling another smuggler.

 

I would consider you to be in the minority of players. If you are attached to that character, then my suggestion would allow you to keep that character and all his items, gear and companions while still giving you the opportunity to play him as a scoundrel.

 

 

This is a case where not only do I have the understanding of the new class, I have already leveled it's mirror & taken it to end game content. I've already done the smuggler story line, wasn't that good, don't feel like I need to see it again. You say I'm lazy after leveling 5 characters to 55 because I don't want to level a 6th & already have a leveled character that is just kinda sitting on my roster disused, unloved & unplayed. I don't see it as lazy. I've already leveled both Ac's & don't feel like doing it again. It would be convenient for me to be able to pay a fee to make a useful character out of a completely useless one.

 

I've worked for the same company for over 23 years. I've held several positions in that time. I've been in the same title doing the same job for over 14 years. Using your logic, I guess that means I would not be lazy if I told my boss I had no desire to work anymore, but I still expect him to continue to pay me for just showing up. I'm not really lazy since I already put over 14 years into the same job doing the same thing day in and day out, right? After all, it would just be a convenience for me if I could just show up and get paid without having to do the work.

 

 

 

Maybe we do, maybe I don't consider an AC change a handout like you do. I am not in favor of everyone being able to change Ac's at the drop of a hat. I believe that there should be some serious criteria that has to be met before & or a long cooldown on this type of service. However I believe it is a service that should be available for situations exactly like the one I have presented here.

 

There have been posters in other threads who want/expect to be able to change their class willy nilly any time they want, with no cost and no restrictions.

 

I am against class changes, but I did put forth a suggestion that would address the majority of the concerns of those against class changes while still enabling players to retain a character to whom they may feel a strong attachment, or who may have unique and no longer obtainable items.

[SW_display_name]

IMO the cost should be extreme.

 

It should not be something you want to do, it's something you're allowed to do if you hit 50-55 and change your mind but love your Class, your Story, and your character.

 

Like 5000 CC or 10 million credits (Legacy-panel only, not available on GTN) and a 30-day cooldown.

 

Nothing like Field Respec (just delete ACs if you're going to do that), and nothing forgiving, cheap, or frequent enough that heavy-progression players would feel obligated to swap on a boss-by-boss basis or something.

 

The idea is to leave leveling a new character as a legitimate and appealing option, but not the only option.

[Ratajack]

IMO the cost should be extreme.

 

It should not be something you want to do, it's something you're allowed to do if you hit 50-55 and change your mind but love your Class, your Story, and your character.

 

Like 5000 CC or 10 million credits (Legacy-panel only, not available on GTN) and a 30-day cooldown.

 

Nothing like Field Respec (just delete ACs if you're going to do that), and nothing forgiving, cheap, or frequent enough that heavy-progression players would feel obligated to swap on a boss-by-boss basis or something.

 

The idea is to leave leveling a new character as a legitimate and appealing option, but not the only option.

 

If you love your class, then there is no need to change.

 

Do a /who on fleet. Sort the results by CLASS. How many BOUNTY HUNTERS or TROOPERS are there over level 10? Now how many MERCENARIES, POWERTECHS, COMMANDOS or VANGUARDS are there over level 10?

 

My suggestion meets your criteria, IMO. It carries an extreme cost, as it would reset your character to level 10, in addition to any credit/CC cost tied to class change. It is not forgiving or cheap. It allows players to keep their characters and those character's items and gear, etc. It does not, however, simply hand a new class of equivalent level to a player.

[Lorrimar]

I don't recall saying that it would be a "the sky is falling" disaster. I do think that it will have more of impact than many of those in favor of allowing class changes seem to think it will. I think it will cost BW some subs if they allow players to change their class. I do not know how many. Only BW could make even an educated guess as to the numbers.

 

I think if they allow class changes, the impact will fall somewhere near the middle of the "What I do with MY character doesn't affect YOU at all" and "we'll be up to our ears in players who have no idea how to play their class". We'll have some players like yourself who are familiar with their new class, and we'll have some who had no idea how to play the class they leveled, let alone a totally DIFFERENT class.

 

Why do you think it will cost them subs?

 

Additionally, most of what you said here is why I would like it behind a legacy/high CC cost/level the mirror AC/all of the above gate. I think that if you gate it hard enough people will really think about making a change & unless they are in a situation like mine (55 toon on your account that you absolutely are not going to play) I think they will not bother. It should absolutely not be a "switch every time the other AC for my class gets a buff" that would be silly.

 

I would consider you to be in the minority of players. If you are attached to that character, then my suggestion would allow you to keep that character and all his items, gear and companions while still giving you the opportunity to play him as a scoundrel.

 

I read your suggestion about setting everything back to 10 except class stories & to be honest that sounds more painful than KDY to 50 & then just going back & running class stories & then into Makeb to 55. I'm not attached to the character so much as I don't want to go through the leveling process again.

 

Leveling for me has never been part of the fun of the game, it's the gate that keeps me from playing the real game (for me that's end game PvE content & I understand that many people are the exact opposite). I will say that the leveling in ToR is head and shoulders above most MMO's out there (wow, rift, star trek, lotr to name a few I have tried), I just didn't really dig the smuggler story that much & have no desire to replay it & after leveling 4 characters normally though planets, I can assure you I never want to do any of the side quests ever again. I liked the JK story line enough that after leveling a guardian, I'm already working (level 29 so far) on a sentinel for the express purpose of replaying the story.

 

I've worked for the same company for over 23 years. I've held several positions in that time. I've been in the same title doing the same job for over 14 years. Using your logic, I guess that means I would not be lazy if I told my boss I had no desire to work anymore, but I still expect him to continue to pay me for just showing up. I'm not really lazy since I already put over 14 years into the same job doing the same thing day in and day out, right? After all, it would just be a convenience for me if I could just show up and get paid without having to do the work.

 

Here's where I think we may have to agree to disagree. You are talking about a game you pay money to play as if it was a job that pays you money to show up. I apologize but I see those as two completely different dynamics that are really not compatible. One I am paying to have fun, the other is paying me for my hard work & expertise. I do not believe that those are the same thing.

 

There have been posters in other threads who want/expect to be able to change their class willy nilly any time they want, with no cost and no restrictions.

 

That is just crazy talk. There should absolutely be STEEP restrictions on it.

[Ratajack]

Let's not forget that the devs intentionally designed the classes (AC's) such that no single character could fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, and not just at the same time. They did this by keeping the tanking and healing skills in different classes (AC's), and making the choice of class (AC) permanent. The result is that no single character can fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, which was the intent of the devs. Tanks do not have access to healing skills and healers do not have access to tanking skills.

 

Allowing class (AC) changes would negate this design intent.