gtn high prices

[draxcil]

so why the high prices on level 55 hilts and crafting material

[horrorfaneightys]

I'm guessing because the mats and schematics are rare.

[Essence_of_Light]

cuz science

[OddballEasyEight]

so why the high prices on level 55 hilts and crafting material

 

/sarcastic I'm sorry... I'll lower my prices and lose money so that you don't feel cheated

 

Seriously tho, this is a pretty un-thought out question... These things do not come to people without any effort at all.

Hilts need to be crafted, which needs materials.

Some materials can be gathered, but that takes time and effort which means a cost.

Other materials can only be gotten through missions (some only when you get a critical on a mission) and since missions cost money, these mats cost money.

 

The reason the prices are "so high" is because the costs for getting those are high.

 

Say I want to make a black and red dye, for example... I'd need 4 each of 3 different high-level (and kinda rare) colour crystals. 4 of a common power crystal (still high level tho) and 1 of a very rare gemstone.

The gemstone alone goes for 10k each on the GTN.

The other mats can be gathered "for free" but that still takes time and effort.

The gemstone can be got by missions, but missions cost money and you'll ned a crit to get the gemstone.

 

That's why the black and red dye sells for around 20k to 30k for example.

Same thing goes for hilts and other stuff.

 

It costs money to make and the people who make them want to make some money off making them.

[Fidelicatessen]

I always debate whether to answer stupid questions with snark or not to post at all.

 

Guess the former won out this time.

[TarisKnight]

In my opinion the threadstarter´s question is kind of justified.

 

In general, of course, the relation of supply and demand creates the market dynamics. Still, an immense amount of inflation is present.

 

1) About the lv. 55 modifications: indeed, to craft such an item is expensive (you need Mass Manipulation Generators, Isotope 5 etc.) - still, this doesn´t justify these huge costs.

 

2) Another example: I recently sold some lv. 7 starship upgrades that I crafted myself - for around 500.000 credits each. Well, of course I was happy to receive so much, still it left a kinda strange feeling - because I would never pay this much and I kinda felt that I took advantage of the buyers. Yes, crafting them is a little expensive (molecular stabilizers, 12 enriched durasteel each) - but not equivalent to 500.000. A justified price level would be like 150 k to max. 200 k, but not more.

 

But, to be really honest, it´s not the sellers that are the "guilty" party here - in general speaking, if you know that you can get the price, you will ask for that price. That´s rational. It is rather the irrational demand behaviour of a large number of - excuse me to express it like that - "lazy" buyers. Many players that invest a lot of credits usually don´t want to spend much time in the game and want to use shortcuts whenever they can. One (in my opinion absurd) example are these Tauntaun Domestication data. As I noticed, they are sold for around 40 k each. I mean - why the hell would you ever spend so much credits on one of these datas when they are so easy to get - it just requires a little patience. And it is much more fun to do these things by your own. Or, to go even further: why do you think there are so many credit spammers (god bless the ignore option in chat) on fleet? They are not just there to waste their time, but because there are lots of players that actually take them up on their offer and spend real money for credits. And this also skyrockets prices up.

[HelinCarnate]

I always debate whether to answer stupid questions with snark or not to post at all.

 

Guess the former won out this time.

 

Normally does with me too.

[Superman_AZ]

The GTN will bear what a buyer is willing to pay. Some prices are not far out of reach considering the time and effort involved, while others set down the glass pipe, pick up a dart, and chuck it at a pricing wheel. If someone is willing to pay it, it is likely priced just right. The truly outrageous either eventually come down in price, or keep posting when there are no other sale choices. Also, the same person might try to corner the market and inflate it all.

[Ryenke]

 

2) Another example: I recently sold some lv. 7 starship upgrades that I crafted myself - for around 500.000 credits each. Well, of course I was happy to receive so much, still it left a kinda strange feeling - because I would never pay this much and I kinda felt that I took advantage of the buyers. Yes, crafting them is a little expensive (molecular stabilizers, 12 enriched durasteel each) - but not equivalent to 500.000. A justified price level would be like 150 k to max. 200 k, but not more.

 

 

Wow - If I sold one of these for 200k - I'd be losing over 200k in the sale. Molecular stabilizers sell for a minimum of 70k on my server - average price is more like 89k. Enriched durasteel 10 to 30k. Even if I assume the minimum cost for just these two mats, not taking into consideration the weeks of grind it took to afford the schematic - the cost (or what I could sell mats for instead of crafting) would be 400k. On my server, these tend to sell for 600k. Considering the time, effort and mat cost I think that is a very reasonable price.

 

I myself am still in the grind for these schematics. I could pay the reasonable (imo) 600k but I decided to work to get these on my own and craft them for myself. I probably won't get into this market, as I imagine demand is not high for this specialty mini-game item - but I would certainly need to price at around the 600k mark for it to be worth my time and effort.

[Styxx]

2 mass manipulators at 400-500k a piece, 8 blue whatevers at 50-60k a piece and 8 isotopes at 100 - 100k a piece.

 

You can find crafters that only give those for the above mats, or you can choose to pay whatever price others ask. But you CAN get them for free, as long as you have the mats.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Styxx

[Daewan]

1) About the lv. 55 modifications: indeed, to craft such an item is expensive (you need Mass Manipulation Generators, Isotope 5 etc.) - still, this doesn´t justify these huge costs.

 

If you are not including the cost of learning the mods in the first place, you are not using the proper basis for the high costs.

 

Endgame mods and armoring require reverse engineering, and that requires having the items to RE in the first place. That means running ops and winning drops, or earning comms and ripping mods, or buying items from the GTN to RE. The cost to craft is a lot more than just the extremely expensive materials.

 

I hate when people blow that part off, as if knowing the schematic was as simple as walking up to a trainer and handing over some credits. Even if it was, it still requires getting to 450 in that particular craft, which is not trivial. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Yet no one does, and then they not only begrudge the crafter who put in the time and effort, they completely belittle the accomplishment behind being able to craft rare items.

[DOHboy]

If you are not including the cost of learning the mods in the first place, you are not using the proper basis for the high costs.

 

Endgame mods and armoring require reverse engineering, and that requires having the items to RE in the first place. That means running ops and winning drops, or earning comms and ripping mods, or buying items from the GTN to RE. The cost to craft is a lot more than just the extremely expensive materials.

 

I hate when people blow that part off, as if knowing the schematic was as simple as walking up to a trainer and handing over some credits. Even if it was, it still requires getting to 450 in that particular craft, which is not trivial. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Yet no one does, and then they not only begrudge the crafter who put in the time and effort, they completely belittle the accomplishment behind being able to craft rare items.

 

wait till they learn that the ones being sold..are actually FREE since majority of the time they are Crits from other people matts.

 

What gets me is how things like economics and time value of money are basic concepts that some people just don't bother to learn. They think you should be crafting and doing things for the good of the game and not trying to make actual money.

 

@OP Put it this way. If they DIDN'T bring in millions of credits, nobody would bother with crafting them. You are free to go run HM operations for main hands with a 1/8 chance of actually wining the roll and earn it yourself.

[KyaniteD]

If you are not including the cost of learning the mods in the first place, you are not using the proper basis for the high costs.

 

Endgame mods and armoring require reverse engineering, and that requires having the items to RE in the first place. That means running ops and winning drops, or earning comms and ripping mods, or buying items from the GTN to RE. The cost to craft is a lot more than just the extremely expensive materials.

 

I hate when people blow that part off, as if knowing the schematic was as simple as walking up to a trainer and handing over some credits. Even if it was, it still requires getting to 450 in that particular craft, which is not trivial. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Yet no one does, and then they not only begrudge the crafter who put in the time and effort, they completely belittle the accomplishment behind being able to craft rare items.

 

Indeed, people seem to forget that the price is not just determined by the actual material costs but also by the costs for meeting the prerequisites (investment costs), rarity (supply) and popularity (demand).

 

@OP, look at how the material supplies are "generated". The prices are high because supply is limited and demand is high due to the amount of materials needed per item. Many crafters, particularly those of item modifications like hilts, barrels mods etc., will craft the item for you at no additional costs if you give them the materials. So if GTN prices of the materials are not justified in your opinion, you can collect them yourself and trade them for the crafted item.

[anesvik]

I see this question very often in fleet. And i always respond in the same way (note: this response is longer than the one I give in fleet....obviously)

In real life, you have supply and demand and a few other real things to drive the market. But this is SWTOR economics.

Supply does influence some of the cost, sure. But demand is what drives up prices. If you want the hilt and NEED it, you will shell out whatever seller is the cheapest.

Keep in mind, these sellers want to buy something, so they jack the price high so they can justify the time spend running Ops. Also, keep in mind that in order to MAKE these items they had to destroy a drop from an operation that they took time to run...mats that came from farming dailies to get basic comms, and EEE's that had to be dropped in other areas. The Seller isnt going to look at all these mats and think, "I did all that, ill give these away" No, they want recognition for it, they want to have the creds.

So just from the few examples, you can tell that SWTOR economics is ran by whatever the seller wants to sell them for, and finding a sucker to pay for it. AND THEY DO FIND THEM....

[Andryah]

Just when I think everyone who plays an MMO understands basic economics of supply/demand in a player economy.... I get friendly reminders like this thread.

 

Just when I think everyone who plays an MMO understands that end game crafted items command top prices in an active player economy... I get friendly reminders like this thread.

 

OP.. there is a player economy. You can play in that economy or not... but what you cannot do is dictate or complain the economy into your liking. But.. if you have patience.... what is top tier at cap level today commands premium prices between players.... yet will be inexpensive once the bar moves on the top tier.

[ivanhedgehog]

If you are not including the cost of learning the mods in the first place, you are not using the proper basis for the high costs.

 

Endgame mods and armoring require reverse engineering, and that requires having the items to RE in the first place. That means running ops and winning drops, or earning comms and ripping mods, or buying items from the GTN to RE. The cost to craft is a lot more than just the extremely expensive materials.

 

I hate when people blow that part off, as if knowing the schematic was as simple as walking up to a trainer and handing over some credits. Even if it was, it still requires getting to 450 in that particular craft, which is not trivial. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. Yet no one does, and then they not only begrudge the crafter who put in the time and effort, they completely belittle the accomplishment behind being able to craft rare items.

 

it is also driven by the devs and their horrible job itemizing the drops. when you make a dread forged armor pice that has alacrity instead of defense you make it a necessity for tanks to get either another 180 piece to rip it from or to buy the mod in question.

[Tsillah]

the hilts are crafted with rare materials. You could spend the millions on the gtn or get the materials yourself and get it without spending credits. Crafter often advertise that they will trade you the hilt for materials only. Why because with the mats they can craft more and have a critical which gives them two. That's their profit. The items that don't give an extra like implants and earpieces will come with a fee of 300-500K usually, but that's still a lot less than spending 2-3 million on the gtn.

 

So really the biggest deal is getting the materials.

[Grayseven]

If you don't like the prices you can always take the time to learn to craft the item yourself. After all, it can't be that hard...right?

[OddballEasyEight]

If you don't like the prices you can always take the time to learn to craft the item yourself. After all, it can't be that hard...right?

 

Don't forget cheap... right?

[Thoronmir]

I just skimmed the two pages, so I apologize if someone mentioned this already:

 

When I sell a 55 mod, hilt, enhancement, whatever, I factor in, not only the time and costs of the materials that went into that item, but also the time and costs that went into leveling my Artifice (or whatever), as well as my Treasure Hunter (or whatever) skills to be able to (a) acquire the mats and (b) make the item.

 

This thread reminds of me of an old joke:

 

A 20-years-experience factory repairman was fired and replaced with a machine to do his job. A week later, the equipment broke down, so the bosses called him back in and offered to pay him to fix it. He studied the machine for one minute, walked to the control panel, and pressed a single button. The machine worked fine. The bosses (much relieved) asked him how much he wanted to be paid. He answered, "$10,000." The bosses complained, "But it only took you one minute of work! We need an itemized bill of your time." The repairman agreed and wrote out on a napkin:

 

"Pressing button: $10

Knowing which button to press: $9,990"

Edited May 21, 2014 by Thoronmir

[LordArtemis]

so why the high prices on level 55 hilts and crafting material

 

Short answer? Its what folks are willing to pay. If folks find the price too high the price eventually drops.

 

Good example is Mk-9 Augment kits. Used to sell for an average of 100k. Now down to a 50k average.

 

Supply and demand.

 

One way to fix this is to increase supply....and I think it wouldn't kill them to do this with resource drops. Just my personal slant.

[Daekarus]

While I agree that the higher prices for endgame items are justified by the trouble it takes to craft them, this doesn't apply to other things on the GTN.

 

Prices are so inflated on my server for low and mid-level items that the GTN is essentially useless before you hit max level. I have several crafting skills at max level, so I know what goes into making these early game items, and it's nowhere near enough to justify the prices. If BW hadn't done such a good job making sure quest rewards kept you geared well enough for the next content in your story, the game would be unplayable because no levelling character without a max level toon to feed it credits could ever afford to buy anything from the GTN. It results in a vastly underutilized GTN because some jerks just buy and mark up everything, leaving a zero-value proposition in their wake.

 

Regarding the price of top tier endgame gear - I never participate in that market because the cost/benefit of that stuff isn't anywhere near worth it to me.

[LordArtemis]

With an open market there is really no way to counter greed IMO.

 

Expect perhaps one way, as mentioned....have good mission reward systems and/or increase resource drops.

 

I say the latter would help immensely. They should double the current drops.

 

If you harvest one or two pieces from a mob, it should be 2 to 4 pieces IMO. Nodes should give 4 to 8 pieces instead of 2 to 4.

 

I think the amount you harvest should be effected by your skill level. If that is not possible, then simply boost all harvest payouts.

[Kourage]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[Thoronmir]

While I agree that the higher prices for endgame items are justified by the trouble it takes to craft them, this doesn't apply to other things on the GTN.

 

Prices are so inflated on my server for low and mid-level items that the GTN is essentially useless before you hit max level. I have several crafting skills at max level, so I know what goes into making these early game items, and it's nowhere near enough to justify the prices. If BW hadn't done such a good job making sure quest rewards kept you geared well enough for the next content in your story, the game would be unplayable because no levelling character without a max level toon to feed it credits could ever afford to buy anything from the GTN. It results in a vastly underutilized GTN because some jerks just buy and mark up everything, leaving a zero-value proposition in their wake.

 

Regarding the price of top tier endgame gear - I never participate in that market because the cost/benefit of that stuff isn't anywhere near worth it to me.

I agree with you about top tier endgame items. Just never seemed worth the price to me either.

 

As for low- to mid-level items, I have 450 in all Crew Skills and have never made an item to sell on the GTN. I GTN off the trash drops from leveling missions with my alts, and the mostly green (sometimes blue, sometimes purple) items sell pretty well. I post green gear at whatever price GTN recommends. I post blues and purples at the recommended price x10 (I just add a "0" to the price). It all seems to sell well ... eventually. I never bother to see how much similar items are posted for on the GTN. People either buy my stuff or not.

 

My point is simple: Players don't need the "best" gear to level up. Greens work fine for the journey to endgame. Anything better than that is a luxury, which means it's going to cost them more. Either more credits at the GTN, or more time in-game skilling up their own crafters, or more time in-game farming low-level Heroics or FPs for comms.

 

As you say, the game does a decent enough job of gearing up characters as they level. So, I'm not seeing exactly what's broken that needs fixing. I'm skeptical about the efficacy of simply increasing harvest drops. Even if I started crafting for the GTN, having more mats wouldn't encourage me to sell at lower prices. It would just let me make (and post) more at the same price I would otherwise charge ... i.e., the market price.

 

I believe strongly in helping new players. I recently cleaned out my "closets" to give stuff I had hoarded (yes, I'm a hoarder and have the "bank alts" to prove it) to some new players who recently joined my Guild (leftover adaptable armor pieces, mods for stats I won't need, color crystals, etc.). But with that gear came some advice about getting into crafting. I embrace the whole "Teach someone to fish" philosophy. I always advise new players to start crafting ... usually Cybertech, since it's the most versatile Crew Skill in my opinion (they can save hoards of comms by making their own armor mods). I made it to 55 on my first character on my current server without ever buying a piece of gear off the GTN. They can too.