Ask me anything / Training

[Krixarcs]

Thanks for all the responses! I'll definitely give this build a shot.

 

Krax, I think I dislike gunships mostly because I enjoy dogfighting and being in the middle of it all. Granted, scouts have paper for armor so dogfighting should be minimal, but the thought of sniping from a distance seems so dull to me. Haven't played on in a bit (as in, over a year) so maybe I'll give it another go.

 

I think you should give it another try. my build is tricky to master but it likely has the highest skill ceiling of any ship or build in the game.

[DakhathKilrathi]

I think you should give it another try. my build is tricky to master but it likely has the highest skill ceiling of any ship or build in the game.

 

Go find a match to self destruct in (because that's what you're good at right) and stop spreading misinformation, thanks.

Edited January 4, 2016 by DakhathKilrathi

[Krixarcs]

Go find a match to self destruct in (because that's what you're good at right) and stop spreading misinformation, thanks.

 

Misinformation thats a big word for you dakhath. what proof do you have? you want to 1v1?

Edited January 4, 2016 by Krixarcs

[Drakkolich]

Hey guys could we keep this thread clean of arguments I'd like to keep it about helping new players out. While I understand you seem to really like your build Krix, many players have agreed with the fact that the ship you run is underpowered compared the others available.

 

Dakhath while we both disagree with Krix's ship choice he actually didn't say it was more powerful, just that in his opinion it's one of the hardest ships/builds to play. I personally think there are plenty of ships harder to play then his build but that doesn't actually matter when you're comparing ships for the competitive scene.

 

 

Thanks for understanding guys.

[Greezt]

I have a couple of questions:

 

What is a build you'd recommend for a rampart to be useful in TDM?

 

How do I use feedbacks effectively?

 

Thanks

[Drakkolich]

I have a couple of questions:

 

What is a build you'd recommend for a rampart to be useful in TDM?

 

This one is really hard to answer because there really isn't any build I'd "recommend".

 

Sanic and I have both played around with a Seeker/Concussion mine build. You use Shield power converter and Overcharged shields to have a just ridiculous amount of health they have to chew through. You try to fight near Line of sight objects but you don't stay in one place the entire match like a regular Bomber build. You play it more like a Strike fighter with no missile break. On offense you basically just drop your mines on cooldown and that lets you have up to 6 mines around the map. It surprisingly does a lot of damage (scoreboard wise). It's very fun, although not super effective, if you're looking for something different give that a go, nothing like turning around to see you have a huge mine field behind you to drag enemies through.

 

How do I use feedbacks effectively?

 

The most effective way to use Feedback is as surprise damage, you trigger it while they are already shooting at you. If you just use it when someone starts to engage you, you're allowing them to play around it. They can either use power to shields to regenerate a buffer for the hit making it practically useless or even just finish you off with just their secondaries.

 

My favorite technique with Feedback is to fire a Slug railgun shot at whatever is coming straight for me then once they get in range fire a Burst laser shot while simultaneously activating Feedback. To them it just looks like one big Burst laser crit. (Props to Mikaboshi for teaching me this)

 

Thanks

 

You're very welcome, we still have to schedule a day of playing together, you should let me know when is a good time. I haven't played on Red Eclipse in awhile it's probably time to go back there.

[Kinsha]

I'd like to throw out to drak that you can use feedback shield as a preventative action as well. If you think you may be coming under fire soon you can just activate it. If its a scout attacking (usually is) and they're willing to take the hit , you'll shave off valuable seconds toward a second activation. If the scout continues to just throw cluster missiles at you, you also buy time because they're not willing to use blasters on you yet. Or in the best case scenario, the scout just decides he's not willing to attack you and goes somewhere else.

[Drakkolich]

I'd like to throw out to drak that you can use feedback shield as a preventative action as well. If you think you may be coming under fire soon you can just activate it. If its a scout attacking (usually is) and they're willing to take the hit , you'll shave off valuable seconds toward a second activation. If the scout continues to just throw cluster missiles at you, you also buy time because they're not willing to use blasters on you yet. Or in the best case scenario, the scout just decides he's not willing to attack you and goes somewhere else.

 

I didn't mention this because that seems to be how everyone plays it already. I figured Greezt was looking for more advanced uses. But you're absolutely right it's a great preventative tool if all you need is a little breathing room.

 

 

For anyone looking for an example of the burst damage you can do with it my friend sent me a video of him doing the exact thing I mentioned. Enjoy it's really awesome!

 

This is how you Feedback

[Greezt]

Thanks for the builds. I do know the usual way people use feedbacks, and I figure I'd rather be using it for actual damage. If I want to avoid damage, distortion is all around better, I think.

 

Also, great video. I don't think I can do that, but I'll try...

 

Come over to TRE! If the time is right, you can get some great competition.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Greezt

[caederon]

 

Hey I don't want to stir the pot but I just wanted to show you guys this screenshot of me beating 3 aces (sriia/zyreis, halkain/draelik, skywalkr/sithace) without any aces on my team. I was using a T2 gunship of course. this in itself does not constitute proof but i think it is close as we can get.

 

http://i.imgur.com/PogIhAa.png

 

now you might try to say that their bottom players were blah blah blah but the truth is both of their bottom guys played bombers which were actually kinda tough to kill. they didn't do kills and damage cus that aint their primary job

Consider the pot unstirred. You'll need to spice your argument up more than that if you want to properly cook a point. While the 'ace' designation is subjective, it'd be fair under most criteria to apply it to Syberi (who was on your side). He's been around quite a while and has performed very well for the duration. I know I always consider him someone who has to be accounted for when lining up against me. You'll have to find a better example to prove... um... what are you trying to prove? That the T2 gs was what swung the match and that it alone is the reason for your marginal dominance? It's a really weird crusade you're leading. You would have performed better in a T1 gs or T2 scout.

 

 

(argument stuff spoilered so as to de-clutter the thread. These aren't the posts you're looking for, move along.)

Despon

Edited January 7, 2016 by caederon

[jordocaust]

Drak asked you nicely to stop with the arguments and all that here on his thread that is aimed at helping newer players.

 

Rather than taking it elsewhere, like a separate thread that was created exclusively to get your drama OFF of Drak's thread, you bring it back into here. Not too respectful or classy at all.

 

So you disagree with Drak and the other pilots that have come here to mentor new pilots. Good for you. Take the drama elsewhere.

 

While you may retort, this will be my only post on the subject, as I do not wish to muddy up Drak's thread with this stuff.

[Lavaar]

This thread is quickly degenerating into the realm of slapstick comedy. While I am the type that often enjoys watching this type of exchange unfold, I really do not think that this thread is the place for it. The GSF community is usually seen as being more mature and helpful than the ground pvp community, but the negativity here lately certainly doesn't illustrate that to the new players who we try to direct to these forums. This thread is a good resource, and is probably one of the main threads that new players will see when they are looking for tips.

 

I would like to derail this line of conversation and ask another question to drak, which I am sure a lot of newer players are probably wondering about. I don't think anyone has asked you this here yet, but if they have and I didn't see it I apologize for asking twice.

 

When you are facing a bomber on the opposing team who is "ticking" under a satellite (stacking themselves in a corner and placing mines all around themselves to absorb fire) what is the best method to dig them out OTHER than utilizing the ion railgun? I know that this tactic is universally frowned upon, and is quickly dispatched by competent players, but it is also a tactic that confuses and frustrates a lot of players who don't have much team support.

 

Thoughts?

[tunewalker]

This thread is quickly degenerating into the realm of slapstick comedy. While I am the type that often enjoys watching this type of exchange unfold, I really do not think that this thread is the place for it. The GSF community is usually seen as being more mature and helpful than the ground pvp community, but the negativity here lately certainly doesn't illustrate that to the new players who we try to direct to these forums. This thread is a good resource, and is probably one of the main threads that new players will see when they are looking for tips.

 

I would like to derail this line of conversation and ask another question to drak, which I am sure a lot of newer players are probably wondering about. I don't think anyone has asked you this here yet, but if they have and I didn't see it I apologize for asking twice.

 

When you are facing a bomber on the opposing team who is "ticking" under a satellite (stacking themselves in a corner and placing mines all around themselves to absorb fire) what is the best method to dig them out OTHER than utilizing the ion railgun? I know that this tactic is universally frowned upon, and is quickly dispatched by competent players, but it is also a tactic that confuses and frustrates a lot of players who don't have much team support.

 

Thoughts?

 

Personally, though I havent played in a while. What I used to do was dive straight down far enough away from their guns and begin locking a missile onto them, they would typically have to move, or if I was in a gunship again same thing. generally what I dont do is use a Scout against it, since getting a tick in a scout is kind of difficult as you have to make yourself vulnerable to their weapons if they positioned themselves right. If you have a team mate Ioning of course its ok to use a scout. For a Strike I only move into Heavy laser range when I have already stacked the odds in my favor, maybe double front shields, and a Conc missile already landed on them, but even that is dangerous. In the end the Ion is the best bet for this, but mostly its just get them in LoS by diving down, and make sure you get enough range on them that they cant just shred you with Heavies. If they are ticking they have no missiles, so this is one of the few times long range missiles are of use.

[ALaggyGrunt]

There's no rule against ticking with a conc on your dronelayer.

 

If you want to get rid of a tick, you have lots of choices:

 

Park a gunship under the sat. Most gunships go straight to the sat so they're in range sooner, leaving the enemy bomber all the time they need to set up on the side of the sat toward their spawn.

Ion+EMP missile. Ion rips off their shields, EMP messes up their drones. If they come out after you, they're unticked and vulnerable to everyone else.

Anything with concentrated fire + retros. You have lots of time to line up and perfectly center them before they're in range. You could put BO/TT+DF on a scout, or you could put directionals and either heavy missile on a T1 strike. If they move, clean out all their drones.

Range cap + heavies. Set up between 6300 and 6900m, and they have to move to hit you.

Protorps and/or thermites. If they don't move, they're going to get hit.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ALaggyGrunt

[MDVZ]

There's no rule against ticking with a conc on your dronelayer.

 

If you want to get rid of a tick, you have lots of choices:

 

Park a gunship under the sat. Most gunships go straight to the sat so they're in range sooner, leaving the enemy bomber all the time they need to set up on the side of the sat toward their spawn.

Ion+EMP missile. Ion rips off their shields, EMP messes up their drones. If they come out after you, they're unticked and vulnerable to everyone else.

Anything with concentrated fire + retros. You have lots of time to line up and perfectly center them before they're in range. You could put BO/TT+DF on a scout, or you could put directionals and either heavy missile on a T1 strike. If they move, clean out all their drones.

Range cap + heavies. Set up between 6300 and 6900m, and they have to move to hit you.

Protorps and/or thermites. If they don't move, they're going to get hit.

 

All the above.

 

I'm not sure why 'ticking' is frowned upon so severely. It's an act of either laziness or desperation that's quite easy to counter. Just a tactic, imo. Take that as a genuine question - I really don't know why people hate it so much. To my mind, it's using the bombers strengths in conjunction with the 'terrain', for want of a better word. Am I missing something that makes it hated?

 

But anyway, as per Grunts post, anything and everything that can get LoS on the bomber and kill them or threaten to will get them out. I'd just like to add to the above, as perhaps an attitude rather than tactic per se (now, this might just be me, because can be a suicidal maniac in dom), but the general choices are out-range and get a sure kill/force to move, or take a chance on out-damaging, but maybe die in the process. That's fine, imo. Digging bombers off nodes is top priority in dom and worth a couple of points in deaths to do it. Unless you care more about your KDR than winning, feel free to suicide at a bomber that's dug in, on the chance you kill them first, or so that other players can finish them off. imo.

 

Also, GS above and below a sat makes it an extremely inhospitable place for bombers. But obviously that needs coordination. Generally GS line up on one side and any number can be LoSed; top and bottom shuts bombers down.

Edited January 7, 2016 by MDVZ

[Greezt]

To my mind, it's using the bombers strengths in conjunction with the 'terrain', for want of a better word. Am I missing something that makes it hated?

 

I have to disagree here. The strength of bombers is area denial. Spreading mines in a small corner of a node is not area denial, it's laziness (like you said). You're leaving most of the node open for enemies, and you're only delaying your own death.

 

I personally dislike ticks because their actions aren't benefiting anyone (except in games where no one knows how to kill them). In TDM, you can just ignore them. In DOM, kill them quick and you get a free node. It's much more annoying if you have one on your team than if he's against you.

 

Also, I've seen peole do this on strikes, scouts and gunships... I've never actually seen it work against competent players.

[MDVZ]

I have to disagree here. The strength of bombers is area denial. Spreading mines in a small corner of a node is not area denial, it's laziness (like you said). You're leaving most of the node open for enemies, and you're only delaying your own death.

 

I personally dislike ticks because their actions aren't benefiting anyone (except in games where no one knows how to kill them). In TDM, you can just ignore them. In DOM, kill them quick and you get a free node. It's much more annoying if you have one on your team than if he's against you.

 

Also, I've seen peole do this on strikes, scouts and gunships... I've never actually seen it work against competent players.

 

All valid points.

 

The other thing I called it was an act of desperation. When I'm in a bomber and there are GS around me, I LoS, like everyone. When they move to cover more space around the node in lines of fire, I try to hide. Where does said hiding, because you have nowhere to go, become ticking?

 

In case you haven't guessed, I sort of, kinda do this (I think) in my minelayers (don't use dronecarriers in dom, and very little in general). I only do it when the area around the satellite is denied to me. I sit and appreciate the irony of my area denial ship being denied area and wait for the next gs or a half decent scout to end it all. Hence my question.

 

I say 'I think' I do it, because I'm really not sure now - the 'when does hiding become ticking' question was genuine. Am I missing some detail or circumstance where it's gamey/exploitative?

Edited January 7, 2016 by MDVZ

[Drakkolich]

Alright so how to deal with Bomber Ticks without Ion Railgun, man this is this ever going to be a wall of text.

 

While Ion Railgun is certainly the most powerful tool to deal with this strategy, there's still plenty of others that can defeat it. Any Railgun has the necessary range to disrupt this strategy you just keep pelting them until they die or move.

 

Now other weapons you can use are Heavy Laser Cannons or Rocket Pods. You're basically looking for weapons that out range the mines that can shoot reasonably fast to keep killing the mines as he puts more out.

 

Alright so now we have the weapons to do it we've flown under the satellite to get the correct angle on him and we both start shooting. You have to kill his mines and he has a higher health pool so there is no way assuming you're both aiming well for you to win in one exchange. This will be a multiple battles engagement, but you have the advantage because you're willing to move. So simply move away heal up and reposition as fast as possible and hit him again. Here is the tricky part, assuming your team wants to win they will be doing this too, and as you rotate with other people that Bomber will fold really fast, because the next person doesn't even have to shoot the mines. If you continually keep going in killing his mines and retreating when low to heal your shields someone else is going to eventually come help you finish him off.

 

Now you might be saying well that means that it takes more then one person to beat this strategy doesn't that make it really good? Here's the thing though you are taking a ship whose single biggest strength is defending a satellite and basically just letting one single person completely shut you down.

 

 

Alright so we've neutralized his mines and softened him for our teammates, but what if every time we try to engage this Bomber his teammates come shoot at us? This is easy by the way kill everyone else first, you know where the Tick is going to be he doesn't move just avoid that area and kill everyone else. That Bomber has already given your team a 8v7 advantage, he's not going to help his teammates at all. Just use that advantage to clean up the Tick's teammates and then gang up on him with the as before mentioned strategy.

 

 

Some players have asked why this strategy is looked so far down upon, it isn't because it's particularly good. It's because it preys on new players that just don't understand the controls or game mecanics yet. It's also because you basically shun your own teammates by doing it.

 

Now many players while piloting a Bomber will stop under a satellite to avoid line of sight of their opponents hell they might even get right up in a corner and put mines on top of themselves to help stall for reinforcements and this can be a great strategy when used at the appropriate times. The difference is if you start to get shot at by someone you need to move if you don't think you can win the engagement, don't just sit there and let yourself die.

 

 

That's the broad strokes of the best ways to deal with Tick Bombers. I'm going to leave a list of useful components at the bottom here because I think this is already long enough. I hope that helps.

 

- Charged plating (to clear mine fields for teammates)

- Emp (to clear mine fields for teammates)

- Directional shields (gives you a huge advantage in jousts, which is basically what you're doing vs the Bomber)

- Mines (you can angle your ship to send your mine into the area where all his are and it will trigger all of them)

- Ops chat (you can ask for someone to rotate with to finish off the Tick Bomber)

[Krixarcs]

My T2 is better at killing ticks than ion. Why? Because I have two options

 

I can first shoot him with a thermite and then get closer and kill mines and then kill him with heavies and range capacitor

 

Or I can use a 1/4 charge slug railgun and shoot all the mines and keep shooting slug until I run out of blaster pool and then fly closer and finish him with a thermite remember they do redicklous damage st8 to hull kids

[tunewalker]

My T2 is better at killing ticks than ion. Why? Because I have two options

 

I can first shoot him with a thermite and then get closer and kill mines and then kill him with heavies and range capacitor

 

Or I can use a 1/4 charge slug railgun and shoot all the mines and keep shooting slug until I run out of blaster pool and then fly closer and finish him with a thermite remember they do redicklous damage st8 to hull kids

What makes Ion good, is the AOE, you never have to be in LoS to destroy the mines AND strip the shields of the Bomber in just one shot, making them a sitting duck for even standard burst laser scouts. Thermite TECHNICALLY does less damage to hull then Proton's will do, assuming the shields are up, its been calculated. One of the primary reasons to use Thermites is the Armor ignore that is added to all weapons, even those of things like Quads and the like, as well as the added shield pierce for other weapons, which is great for helping out "new" players on your team who lack armor piercing weapons. This is an interesting Idea, but I would still personally prefer going on the Ion Route, or just going in a T3 Strike personally, but I am a strike fighter pilot, and its not like the strike is any more of a "meta" ship then the T2 Gunship. Still sounds like an Interesting and fun build to try even if it isnt the most effective, and it DOES still have a slug rail gun.... still though as I said in the other post, we should consider the average player here who wont neccisarily be able to use this T2 GS build well enough to make it worth while to teach those new players to use it instead of T1's or T3's.

Edited January 8, 2016 by tunewalker

[SeCKSEgai]

My T2 is better at killing ticks than ion. Why? Because I have two options

 

I can first shoot him with a thermite and then get closer and kill mines and then kill him with heavies and range capacitor

 

Or I can use a 1/4 charge slug railgun and shoot all the mines and keep shooting slug until I run out of blaster pool and then fly closer and finish him with a thermite remember they do redicklous damage st8 to hull kids

 

Normally I'd get annoyed with misinformation but I don't think most pilots can take you seriously with that attitude - plus it's really silly to try to convince people you're an ace (even goin as far as including it in sig), let alone the only one for a specific ship.

 

There are multiple reasons quarrel/mangler is the primary gunship of choice. That's not to say that the other gunships are horrid, but simply that they're less versatile. With only a limit of 5 maximum ship choices and the inability to modify said list (or component load out) once in a match, it makes sense to pick the most useful of the options.

[tunewalker]

Hey drak, I got a question for you. How have the matches been lately? You think I would be able to jump into a game and play a T3 trike, or T1 strike and have fun and contribute, or are games to Hard/ to Easy for that at this point. How are the newer players doing lately has the overall skill of players increased or is it still around the same?

 

Just getting a feel if I want to jump in and play some games tomorow, dont want them to be to easy and boring like I could sleep and win games, but I dont want to have to stress and play super serious either. If you know what i mean. So I trust you can give me a good gauge of the games on Harb pub side lately.

[MDVZ]

Some players have asked why this strategy is looked so far down upon, it isn't because it's particularly good. It's because it preys on new players that just don't understand the controls or game mecanics yet. It's also because you basically shun your own teammates by doing it.

 

Now many players while piloting a Bomber will stop under a satellite to avoid line of sight of their opponents hell they might even get right up in a corner and put mines on top of themselves to help stall for reinforcements and this can be a great strategy when used at the appropriate times. The difference is if you start to get shot at by someone you need to move if you don't think you can win the engagement, don't just sit there and let yourself die.

 

Makes sense.

[Drakkolich]

Hey drak, I got a question for you. How have the matches been lately? You think I would be able to jump into a game and play a T3 trike, or T1 strike and have fun and contribute, or are games to Hard/ to Easy for that at this point. How are the newer players doing lately has the overall skill of players increased or is it still around the same?

 

Just getting a feel if I want to jump in and play some games tomorow, dont want them to be to easy and boring like I could sleep and win games, but I dont want to have to stress and play super serious either. If you know what i mean. So I trust you can give me a good gauge of the games on Harb pub side lately.

 

From the little bit I've played the last couple of weeks pub side is definitely the weaker faction on Harb but not by that much. (depending whose on ofcourse)

 

There is definitely plenty of games you could play a Strike in and mess around and still get a win though. However there are a lot of really good pilots that play on Harb, many players that play on multiple servers. Sometimes they just decide to all play at the same time and it can get kind of dicey.

 

In my opinion Tune play a few games and just get a feel for it, Harb really seems to be a time of day/who is on type of server. It really has a lot of ups and downs. I like it for that, you never know whose going to be on the other side.

 

This is all just my opinion from the little bit I've played in the last couple of weeks though so take with a grain of salt.

[Greezt]

About the bomber killers - how would a condor with directionals work, in your opinion? I've recently switched to directionals and wanna know if you think it's worth it.