Is the F2P/Preffered system too prohibitive, and if so, what should change?

[Volthorne]

I would like to see a relaxing of the ridiculous restrictions on the forums. Yeah, you heard me. You can't even bloody well reply to a topic unless you're a subscriber (fun fact: I only decided to pick up a single-time 60-day subscription because it was overall cheaper than buying 1500 CC and RotHC individually). Not even preferred users get to post. Just because we "freeloaders" (another fun fact: people will give you more money when they don't feel forced to do it, which the restrictions in-game don't accomplish in the slightest.) don't pay a monthly toll to have access to basic features doesn't mean we don't have good ideas or that we'll spam useless garbage (not spamming useless garbage not guaranteed, since you can't fix stupid. Then again, the subscribers don't always crap gold either).

 

Heck, roughly 5 months ago - and I just started playing at the end of this April - I was talking to a friend who has played since almost day one and I had the amazing idea to offer Basilisk War Droids as mounts, because they're so damn awesome (which has totally already been suggested a million times or so, I checked, but I came up with that idea within literally 10 seconds of my friend mentioning mounts). What if another "freeloader" had a similarly good/awesome idea and wants to get feedback on it or give the devs some inspiration? They're screwed, that's what.

 

Now, you might make a case that "the vast majority of people don't visit the forums anyway, so why does it matter?" Because there are people like me who want to get involved with the community even though we might not be dropping a ton of cash into the developer's laps (or the more likely scenario of the publisher's laps since TOR is published by EA after all) every week or month or two months. With all the people who play TOR, there's got to be a substantial quantity of them who want to contribute and get involved but they can't because a basic form of communication is locked behind a paywall.

 

TL;DR:

locking the forums to only subscribers is dumb and whoever made that decision needs to be given a good beating.

/rant /mic drop

Edited May 14, 2014 by Volthorne

[LordArtemis]

If someone believes that mail restrictions encourage a sub or help Bioware reach their player goals then so be it. So far I have yet to hear anyone say this specifically.

 

My other suggestions are to remove either the sound from the credit cap spam (very annoying) and add a chat channel for P2P/Preferred players.

 

All other restrictions, IMO, are not serious issues. The mail restriction IMO is the only real prohibitive restriction.

[wjrasmussen]

just sub, dont be a freeloader .... Beggars cant be choosy imo

 

+1000.

[wjrasmussen]

Regardless of this validity of this statement it does have a point. F2P should be restrictive. I don't understand why anyone would differ whether it be from a business stance or gamer stance. You don't pay to play the game in anyway so you face restrictions. Simple as that! I don't get to play Call of Duty for free nor Halo. I have to actually buy the game and buy new map packs to play everything.

 

Nonetheless yes little restrictions like title and whatnot is kind of silly. You want to impose restrictions that would urge people to invest money to remove. These don't accomplish that.

Well, if it wasn't a point of leverage, they wouldn't complain about it.

[DarthMaulUK]

I love how the remaining few subscribers claim the rights to everything and that F2P are 'freeloaders'. Without F2P, this game would be DEAD.

 

Servers now have 'Light' populations for longer durations of the day, then 12 months ago and I firmly believe it's the F2P restrictions on content that is making this happen.

 

Bioware have now shown their same arrogance with the Cartel Market as they did with their game during launch - 'people will pay no matter what' - news flash - no they wont! The CM has become lazy, the item details for armour costing 1440 CC is a joke, the packs full of crap with zero value.

 

Yes, people can choose not to buy them but it's time for Bioware to remove the restrictions on the older flashpoints, warzones and operations and open it up to everyone. If they do this, EVERYONE would benefit from faster Q pops, more players online and its time for the subscribers who think otherwise to get off their high horse. Just because someone is F2P, doesn't make you better than them

[Never_Hesitate]

Just because someone is F2P, doesn't make you better than them

 

No, it just means I pay a sub so I don't have the same restrictions they do.

[slafko]

The big thing to me about the system is the restrictions on Unify, Hide Helmet, Companion Unify and Hide Helm, Title and Legacy Title display.

 

I feel like these are restrictions just to be restrictions and would be better off not restricted.

Indeed.

 

Those restrictions, along with the 200k credit cap, are so annoying I can't even begin to describe it. Managed to play only a couple of days with those restrictions after coming back from a 6-month pause; had to re-sub because I couldn't play like that. Guess that's what EA was going for.

[milehighclub]

Instead of complaining of what you dont have as F2P you would be better off tossing that Socialist attitude, get a job and sub. Do you remember what Thatcher said? “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Sadly today it is very popular to be a leftist and demand constantly from others! It is way beyond sickening! Edited May 14, 2014 by milehighclub

[Volthorne]

Instead of complaining of what you dont have as F2P you would be better off tossing that Socialist attitude, get a job and sub. Do you remember what Thatcher said? “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Sadly today it is very popular to be a leftist and demand constantly from others! It is way beyond sickening!

 

In a well-designed system, no, you won't run out of "money" (which is synonymous with "debt", but that's a rather confusing discussion best left for elsewhere). I would rather have a very tax-heavy, socialist society than one where I'm literally a slave to the corporate capitalists, thanks very much.

[slafko]

Instead of complaining of what you dont have as F2P you would be better off tossing that Socialist attitude, get a job and sub. Do you remember what Thatcher said? “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Sadly today it is very popular to be a leftist and demand constantly from others! It is way beyond sickening!

 

This forum needs a :facepalm: emote.

[DarthMaulUK]

Instead of complaining of what you dont have as F2P you would be better off tossing that Socialist attitude, get a job and sub. Do you remember what Thatcher said? “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Sadly today it is very popular to be a leftist and demand constantly from others! It is way beyond sickening!

 

It has nothing to do with people having a job. If people don't see value in spending, they won't and hey, 1.7 million didn't because they left. WoW manages to hold around 8-10 million subs for a reason - content.

 

But again, another high mounted subscriber who hasn't the brain capacity to see the damage done by restricting content - especially the stuff thats 2 years old!

[Vhaegrant]

If someone believes that mail restrictions encourage a sub or help Bioware reach their player goals then so be it. So far I have yet to hear anyone say this specifically.

 

My other suggestions are to remove either the sound from the credit cap spam (very annoying) and add a chat channel for P2P/Preferred players.

 

All other restrictions, IMO, are not serious issues. The mail restriction IMO is the only real prohibitive restriction.

 

I'll come out and say it then.

 

If it wasn't for the Mail restriction (which I believe is necessary as much to deter Gold Farmers as it is to incentivise subbing) I'd be unsubbed and playing as preferred status.

 

I have 19 characters, 6 core crafters and serious amounts of gear and credits flowing between them at various times. I may not buy the Cartel Packs directly but I do hoover up their contents when they hit the GTN, at costs that it'd probably be more expensive to get the escrow unlocks than just subscribe.

 

The trouble is, I value my time more than I do the subscription fee, if I'm happy to spend a couple of hours most days playing a product I'm happy to pay the rather small subscription fee.

[KyaniteD]

Let them trade items.

They should be able to give and receive. When I get stuck with an undergeared group I often try to improve their gear with some leftovers and them not being able to trade affects the whole group in such case. But also the other way around, if they won the roll on an item that someone else wants or needs more, they should be able to trade it. F2P are often also new players who are not yet familiar with the gear/stats for their class/role and the timer on the roll does not always give the time to explain or discuss before they roll.

Edited May 14, 2014 by KyaniteD

[Umbura]

The non-subscriber offer is not enough restrictive.

And it's not my opinion.

 

This is the opinion of thousand of F2p players who are the majority of swtor players. More than 50% made this choice. It's not mine, but I respect this.

For most players, F2p is not restrictive enough to prefer a subscription maybe to expensive.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Umbura

[Petnil]

" If you're not a subscriber we dont want to listen to your ideas and suggestions on how to improve SWTOR"

 

That's how it feels to me to drop to preffered. It's feels like they dont realy care about F2P players, so why should i care about them and their game ?

 

IMO the locked forums is just a bad idea, but i admit it was part of what made me resub 2 months. That and the May promotions.

 

One thing we cant unlock is subscriber only emotes. Not sure why though, it's not enough to make me sub, far from it, but i would pay to unlock some of them. Ex. not beeing able to /salute on my trooper feels a bit wrong, but i can do /me salute so it's not that big a loss.

[Umbura]

IMO the locked forums is just a bad idea

You can find worst : Bioware sells content in Cartel Market to F2P but... but... without any support in case of trouble.

Is it legal ?

[DarthMaulUK]

" If you're not a subscriber we dont want to listen to your ideas and suggestions on how to improve SWTOR"

 

That's how it feels to me to drop to preffered. It's feels like they dont realy care about F2P players, so why should i care about them and their game ?

 

IMO the locked forums is just a bad idea, but i admit it was part of what made me resub 2 months. That and the May promotions.

 

One thing we cant unlock is subscriber only emotes. Not sure why though, it's not enough to make me sub, far from it, but i would pay to unlock some of them. Ex. not beeing able to /salute on my trooper feels a bit wrong, but i can do /me salute so it's not that big a loss.

It's very true. It feels like Bioware are blaming everyone else but themselves for the failure of this game after launch. So it's a 2 finger salute!

[Gokkus]

It is fine the way it is. I have been preferred for half a year when I had some money issues. You can play the game just fine. I think they are quite generous actually, being able to do FP's, WZ's, space missions, pretty much everything.

 

Yes, you need to sub or pay serious cash to enjoy the game to its fullest but this is entirely logical.

[Superman_AZ]

I love how the remaining few subscribers claim the rights to everything and that F2P are 'freeloaders'. Without F2P, this game would be DEAD.

 

Do not paint such a broad stroke. I am a sub, and I don't believe F2P to be freeloaders. In fact, if I did a side by side comparison of what they had to spend in the CM just to get the same content, I would say they spend more than the subs. While it is possible to enjoy the game without spending a dime on CC, it is not highly probable. But without solid data showing what is spent in micro-transactions vs subs, it is all hypothesis.

 

TL;DR - Not all subs are short sighted snobs. But much like PvPers, I can see why we are judged by our weakest links.

[Superman_AZ]

IMO the locked forums is just a bad idea

 

The forums already incur heavy damage on a daily basis from people who pay to play. I could only imagine the intense amount of moderation which would be required if ANYONE could join. I usually think of the WoW forums, and then MMO-Champ.

[KyaniteD]

At some times during the day general chat is rife with hate for F2P. Somehow I don't think this will convince anyone to subscribe and spend paid time in such lovely, welcoming company.

 

Fact is that the F2P crowd is very heterogeneous. There are many different reasons why people choose F2P or Preferred. There are the new players who want to check it out before they decide to spend money on it. There are those who have been laid off and can't afford the sub in between employments. There are those working shifts who only get to play a week out of 4 weeks subscription (and despite subscription have weekly limits imposed on everything, so they can't do in one week what others do in 4). And there are probably many more reasons, all personal and individual. In the end, the F2P offer is there, and no one should be berated for taking the offer.

 

Due to all those different reasons people will react differently to the restrictions. New players may decide to pay to get a richer experience. Since they don't really know what they're missing, they're probably the least likely to be frustrated. Former subs going F2P are much more likely to get frustrated since they notice the restrictions around every corner. But they knew what they got themselves into when they made the decision. By now, we have many unlocks available that can make the preferred status an enjoyable experience. Most of the few restrictions that cannot be removed through unlocks should remain, at least until better (more enticing) subscriber rewards have been implemented.

 

ETA: One of the things I agree they should have access to in addition to the trade option that I mentioned before, are bug reports and access to the customer service forum for Preferred players. Bugs affect us all, it doesn't matter who ran across them first, the sooner they are reported, the sooner they can be investigated and fixed. Preferred players by definition spent real money on the product and should have an option to get support for it.

Edited May 14, 2014 by KyaniteD

[milehighclub]

In a well-designed system, no, you won't run out of "money" (which is synonymous with "debt", but that's a rather confusing discussion best left for elsewhere). I would rather have a very tax-heavy, socialist society than one where I'm literally a slave to the corporate capitalists, thanks very much.

 

Go back to your Magic Castle where either only Utopia or slave to CC exists. The world is a bit more complex, but that would be a very confusing discussion for you.

[milehighclub]

It has nothing to do with people having a job. If people don't see value in spending, they won't and hey, 1.7 million didn't because they left. WoW manages to hold around 8-10 million subs for a reason - content.

 

But again, another high mounted subscriber who hasn't the brain capacity to see the damage done by restricting content - especially the stuff thats 2 years old!

 

Damn right I'm high-mounted but I worked for it without asking from others. Dont try to make any connection to brain capacity here because obviously you and many others are the ones worring about some ****** 20CHF per month, not me. So obviously I got more back for my brain capacity. Damn beggars

[LarryRow]

I recently returned as preferred status and have just been leveling my lowbie, so the credit sound spam didn't bother me. I haven't tried mailing items. Can't you send multiple mails with 1 item each? You can still send stacks, right?

 

What is driving me NUTS is having to pay to respec. Doesn't BW realize it severely limits our ability to queue for multiple roles for Flashpoints, thus making pops take longer for subs? And you know, I don't even mind the fee so much as the fact that it increases exponentially. A flat fee based on your character level would be perfectly fine. But don't let me respec for 1k credits without telling me it will be 15k credits to spec back.

 

I also think the warzone limit should be rethought, since that also provides content for subs. Maybe chop the rewards in half after the first five warzones or something? I dunno, maybe that's not as important since there are passes you can buy. (Ops I can understand, and you can still do unlimited FPs, just not roll on the last item)

 

If you're wondering how I'm typing this, I found a refer-a-friend link that granted me a week's subscription. I used the opportunity to consolidate credits among my toons, delete the ones I didn't want, and buy a couple of unlocks, like the account-wide artifact gear unlock. Also, the refer-a-friend gave each of my toons a bind-on-pickup unlock for an inventory slot, crew skill, and a couple cosmetics (titles and unify colors I think).

[LordArtemis]

We have one person that has indicated that the mail restrictions encouraged them to sub. Anyone else?