Battle scout beats...

[Verain]

Battle scout versus Speed/Sensor scout : Battle scout chases, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Spearpoint : Battle scout chases, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Starguard: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Pike: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout by quite a bit

Battle scout versus Quarrel: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Clarion: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Comet Breaker: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout by quite a bit

Battle scout versus Legion: Battle scout pops offensive cooldowns and nukes. Evasions all seekers simultaneously, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Rampart: Battle scout runs away DRAW:::: Or battle scout charges, LOSER BATTLE SCOUT

 

 

 

2.8 Patch notes: "Nerfing Rampart kk"

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to see battle scouts eviscerate, gutted, or deleted. But they have every good component it seems, and they are very, very low on ships and components strong against them.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Verain

[Magira]

Battle scout versus Speed/Sensor scout : Battle scout chases, Winner Battle Scout

 

Battle Scout with Burst Laser and Cluster vs Speed Scout with Laser and Pods: Winner Speed Scout

 

Without knowing the build AND the Situation is your list rather pointless.

[Verain]

Battle Scout with Burst Laser and Cluster vs Speed Scout with Laser and Pods: Winner Speed Scout

 

....what? Lasers and Pods is a terrible build versus a battle scout.

 

Without knowing the build AND the Situation is your list rather pointless.

 

Sadly not in general. A more relevant point might be that 1v1s are of limited importance, but battle scouts more than contribute to a group scenario.

[tommmsunb]

You're valuing the dogfighting ability of the pure dogfighter in 1 v 1 vs all of these other ships. You're also not basing any of this on concrete evidence/testing and making a QQ thread because you can. Oh how you've fallen Verain.

[Magira]

....what? Lasers and Pods is a terrible build versus a battle scout.

 

Only when the battle Scout Distortion Shield used. But that was not specified.

[Verain]

You're valuing the dogfighting ability of the pure dogfighter in 1 v 1 vs all of these other ships. You're also not basing any of this on concrete evidence/testing and making a QQ thread because you can. Oh how you've fallen Verain.

 

It's not dogfighting though- it's just general burst damage and ability to solo.

 

We are running the very real risk of returning to a battle scout meta. Hard counters to scouts might be kind of lame, but they are better than the world where you can't really justify flying anything else except for the experience.

 

Also, if you think I need "concrete evidence" that battle scouts are very exceptional even in the current meta, dude, what?

 

What would count as concrete evidence? How about the number of people who have a damned flashfire as their icon and conveniently always come in to defend the ship? How come so many people just fly ONE ship, only have ONE ship on their bar- and that ONE ship is totally always a starguard. Wait, no, a Pike. Wait, no, a Comet Breaker. NOPE ALWAYS FLASHFIRE. It's always like that man.

 

If you run through that list for any other ship type, you will see wins and losses.

 

Where's our laser that ignore evasion COMPLETELY? I have several that ignore armor entirely. The only things that ignore evasion are aoes, and the battle scout has to opt into those.

 

 

 

Again, the scout doesn't need a myriad of changes. And you could address this issue by simply making it such that battle scouts can actually bleed from something. If strikes messed up scouts as hard as scouts messed up gunships- that is to say, they would win in a long war, but it is not guaranteed- then we could talk about that.

 

 

 

But we really risk returning to the days where it's not worth queueing with anything but a type 2 scout on your bar, and there are people here who already do that.

[Verain]

Only when the battle Scout Distortion Shield used. But that was not specified.

 

Actually, it's bad versus any scout that is smart enough not to joust.

 

 

But you can crap the thread up with Quick Charge shield battle scouts. That's useful. I think I saw one of those in January, so it's relevant and topical.

[tommmsunb]

It's not dogfighting though- it's just general burst damage and ability to solo.

 

We are running the very real risk of returning to a battle scout meta. Hard counters to scouts might be kind of lame, but they are better than the world where you can't really justify flying anything else except for the experience.

 

Also, if you think I need "concrete evidence" that battle scouts are very exceptional even in the current meta, dude, what?

 

What would count as concrete evidence? How about the number of people who have a damned flashfire as their icon and conveniently always come in to defend the ship? How come so many people just fly ONE ship, only have ONE ship on their bar- and that ONE ship is totally always a starguard. Wait, no, a Pike. Wait, no, a Comet Breaker. NOPE ALWAYS FLASHFIRE. It's always like that man.

 

If you run through that list for any other ship type, you will see wins and losses.

 

Where's our laser that ignore evasion COMPLETELY? I have several that ignore armor entirely. The only things that ignore evasion are aoes, and the battle scout has to opt into those.

 

 

 

Again, the scout doesn't need a myriad of changes. And you could address this issue by simply making it such that battle scouts can actually bleed from something. If strikes messed up scouts as hard as scouts messed up gunships- that is to say, they would win in a long war, but it is not guaranteed- then we could talk about that.

 

 

 

But we really risk returning to the days where it's not worth queueing with anything but a type 2 scout on your bar, and there are people here who already do that.

 

You are presenting an argument, however you are failing to support that argument with any 1 v 1 testing, or concrete evidence. Yes the flashfire will beat out a gunship almost any time in a headon battle, but its a quite a lot less one-sided in starguards. Also, on 3 servers that I play on, the only person I know who equips only one ship and it being a flashfire is scrab, and scrab is a troll. Bombers can beat scouts in 1 v 1s but most bombers don't have the clairvoyance to actually shoot at the scout. Spearpoints can beat flashfires, novadives can beat flashfires and hey guess what, flashfires can beat flashfires.

 

The core of the problem lies here. There exists 4 types of players, and these 4 types all have a certain level of potential dictated by their attitude.

 

First there's the obvious "I tried it once, I didn't like it." player, they clearly have no potential because they will never work at it.

 

Then there's the "I play to max out all of my ships." player, while there's nothing wrong with this attitude, it's whatever floats your boat and you find fun, but this player will plateau after a certain point becoming a jack of all trades.

 

Then there's the "I came top damage once, I must be an ace" player, this player will plateau in skill level and plateau quickly, and when some bigger fish comes along will play less and less and sometimes go to the forums to complain that they're no longer on top.

 

Then there's the "top is never good enough, I need to go higher." players. These players are naturally gravitated towards high scores, myself included. These players will practice ad nauseum until they're satisfied, which we never really are. The flashfire is great because its kit is entirely built around killing things and killing them quickly, the trick is to do this while still being able to survive. All in all this makes it a great ship for the high score seeker, the old gunship and even the new one to a certain extent worked very well with this playstyle. However, you take this pilot out of the flashfire and into anything else the pilot doesn't necessarily just stop being effective, I'm a pretty good strike pilot because a lot of the principles are the same when focussing on dogfighting. All this to say, the pilots who are going to improve quickly are drawn to the flashfire for its benefits, but the flashfire doesn't make the pilot, a moron in a flashfire is actually even more food than a bomber.

 

And I honestly don't think this is disputable, high score seekers are naturally attracted to the flashfire.

Edited May 13, 2014 by tommmsunb

[tunewalker]

You are presenting an argument, however you are failing to support that argument with any 1 v 1 testing, or concrete evidence. Yes the flashfire will beat out a gunship almost any time in a headon battle, but its a quite a lot less one-sided in starguards. Also, on 3 servers that I play on, the only person I know who equips only one ship and it being a flashfire is scrab, and scrab is a troll. Bombers can beat scouts in 1 v 1s but most bombers don't have the clairvoyance to actually shoot at the scout. Spearpoints can beat flashfires, novadives can beat flashfires and hey guess what, flashfires can beat flashfires.

 

The core of the problem lies here. There exists 4 types of players, and these 4 types all have a certain level of potential dictated by their attitude.

 

First there's the obvious "I tried it once, I didn't like it." player, they clearly have no potential because they will never work at it.

 

Then there's the "I play to max out all of my ships." player, while there's nothing wrong with this attitude, it's whatever floats your boat and you find fun, but this player will plateau after a certain point becoming a jack of all trades.

 

Then there's the "I came top damage once, I must be an ace" player, this player will plateau in skill level and plateau quickly, and when some bigger fish comes along will play less and less and sometimes go to the forums to complain that they're no longer on top.

 

Then there's the "top is never good enough, I need to go higher." players. These players are naturally gravitated towards high scores, myself included. These players will practice ad nauseum until they're satisfied, which we never really are. The flashfire is great because its kit is entirely built around killing things and killing them quickly, the trick is to do this while still being able to survive. All in all this makes it a great ship for the high score seeker, the old gunship and even the new one to a certain extent worked very well with this playstyle. However, you take this pilot out of the flashfire and into anything else the pilot doesn't necessarily just stop being effective, I'm a pretty good strike pilot because a lot of the principles are the same when focussing on dogfighting. All this to say, the pilots who are going to improve quickly are drawn to the flashfire for its benefits, but the flashfire doesn't make the pilot, a moron in a flashfire is actually even more food than a bomber.

 

And I honestly don't think this is disputable, high score seekers are naturally attracted to the flashfire.

 

You are forgetting a 5th type of player. One that seeks a specific playstyle and wishes to be helpful to the team and strives to constantly make themselves better not for epeen but because the people they play with are really good and they want to contribute along with them. They can be of multiple skill levels but they try to better themselves for all situations. Their favorite ships vary from person to person.

 

The other ships arent going to magically become better if all the flashfire pilots decided to fly them instead of the people who have loved those ships and have dedicated hours upon hours mastering them, potentially mastering them first.

 

I love the idea of strike fighters and their play style so much that once I am done mastering all the rest of my ships for the achieves, I am going to place all 3 on my bar each with a different shield set up and a different intent. This will leave me 2 slots left open. 1 will likely be a flash fire, because though my love for strikes is evident the Flash fire is to good not to use when the chips are down. The other is the Quarrel, because some times my team really needs strong long range offense.

 

This will leave me with out a bomber, but I feel my clarion can make up for that if I wish it to and I know plenty of allies and enemies run bomber so when I am queing since it is largely in a group I am more helpful to my team in a strike in those situations, and its more fun for me.

 

Competitive players dont play flash fire because they like the play style or its inherently takes more skill to fly. Competitive players fly flash because when played half decent it has the defenses to counter just about everything evasion to dodge Railguns, 2 missile breaks to effectively shut down all ships that require long missiles locks for burst damage. Speed that allows it to choose the range of its fight, all the while not being shut down by anything, as its burst comes from a nice systems ability along with supremely powerful burst lasers and easy to lock missiles or dumb fire rockets.

 

If scouts werent OP then a majority of your type 4 people wouldnt fly them. The type 4 people you are talking about are the people that swing to the flavor of the month constantly. They will fly anything that gives them the best edge, not because they like the ship but because they like having that edge.

Edited May 13, 2014 by tunewalker

[Urglab]

You are presenting an argument, however you are failing to support that argument with any 1 v 1 testing, or concrete evidence. Yes the flashfire will beat out a gunship almost any time in a headon battle, but its a quite a lot less one-sided in starguards. Also, on 3 servers that I play on, the only person I know who equips only one ship and it being a flashfire is scrab, and scrab is a troll. Bombers can beat scouts in 1 v 1s but most bombers don't have the clairvoyance to actually shoot at the scout. Spearpoints can beat flashfires, novadives can beat flashfires and hey guess what, flashfires can beat flashfires.

 

The core of the problem lies here. There exists 4 types of players, and these 4 types all have a certain level of potential dictated by their attitude.

 

First there's the obvious "I tried it once, I didn't like it." player, they clearly have no potential because they will never work at it.

 

Then there's the "I play to max out all of my ships." player, while there's nothing wrong with this attitude, it's whatever floats your boat and you find fun, but this player will plateau after a certain point becoming a jack of all trades.

 

Then there's the "I came top damage once, I must be an ace" player, this player will plateau in skill level and plateau quickly, and when some bigger fish comes along will play less and less and sometimes go to the forums to complain that they're no longer on top.

 

Then there's the "top is never good enough, I need to go higher." players. These players are naturally gravitated towards high scores, myself included. These players will practice ad nauseum until they're satisfied, which we never really are. The flashfire is great because its kit is entirely built around killing things and killing them quickly, the trick is to do this while still being able to survive. All in all this makes it a great ship for the high score seeker, the old gunship and even the new one to a certain extent worked very well with this playstyle. However, you take this pilot out of the flashfire and into anything else the pilot doesn't necessarily just stop being effective, I'm a pretty good strike pilot because a lot of the principles are the same when focussing on dogfighting. All this to say, the pilots who are going to improve quickly are drawn to the flashfire for its benefits, but the flashfire doesn't make the pilot, a moron in a flashfire is actually even more food than a bomber.

 

And I honestly don't think this is disputable, high score seekers are naturally attracted to the flashfire.

 

You forgot a type of player. Those who play to have fun, don't really give a **** about getting those high numbers but fight hard in every match to get the win.

 

PS type 2 gunship with thermite and protorps >>>> everything

[tunewalker]

You forgot a type of player. Those who play to have fun, don't really give a **** about getting those high numbers but fight hard in every match to get the win.

 

PS type 2 gunship with thermite and protorps >>>> everything

 

oh shoot you are right I forgot player number 6.

[mr_sim]

First off Verian, You said Legion and not Warcarrier, Way to not be consistent bro .

 

Otherwise I'm behind Verian for the most part. IMO the only thing keeping people from Type 2 scout > 50% select is that people have other ships that need working on and their Scouts are finished with and mastered. So basically when the shinny new toys get boring nothing keeps the Battle Scout fest away.

 

I do to some degree disagree with some of Verians matchuo scenarios. vs GS is 50/50, vs Type 2 Strike depends so much on the Strike build and there is no "Standard" build for any strike(probably why I like the class so much) to have a default comparison by.

 

Speed scout with LC and RP pfft no unless it's a head-head and the Battle scout doesn't alter course at all.

 

How they should change the Scout I have many ideas and exhausted from listing them though no 1 dea stands out too much. Part of that problem is I utterly suck at Scouts and am far more effective with other classes. So when I fly scout it doesn't become OP.

 

I think we need a game mode that disfavors Scouts, such a thing should not be hard to do. Essentially a PvP/PvE hybrid we could call it Assault Mode. BLC turret = goodbye most scout builds and makes the more ranged fighters look attractive.

[Loc_n_lol]

I don't think a scout, no matter what type, should be able to win a head-to-head with a strike fighter (assuming the strike pilot can shoot straight)...

...or any non-scout for that matter.

 

BLCs are far too effective in general, and them ignoring armor on top of everything else is just wrong.

Brute force and durability should favor the strike. The scout can outurn and/or outrun anyone.

[Altheran]

Battle scout versus Speed/Sensor scout : Battle scout chases, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Spearpoint : Battle scout chases, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Starguard: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Pike: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout by quite a bit

Battle scout versus Quarrel: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Clarion: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Comet Breaker: Battle scout charges, Winner Battle Scout by quite a bit

Battle scout versus Legion: Battle scout pops offensive cooldowns and nukes. Evasions all seekers simultaneously, Winner Battle Scout

Battle scout versus Rampart: Battle scout runs away DRAW:::: Or battle scout charges, LOSER BATTLE SCOUT

 

 

 

2.8 Patch notes: "Nerfing Rampart kk"

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to see battle scouts eviscerate, gutted, or deleted. But they have every good component it seems, and they are very, very low on ships and components strong against them.

 

Scout being strong or not, the Bomber rebalance is due in my opinion, because I don't see how a ship, should be able to wipe off multiple ennemy ships (regardless of class, scout, strikes, gunships, everything is wiping) by himself without particular effort or team play.

 

Now, Flashfires/Stings ruling over the rest of the world, is another problem that I think should be looked at.

 

 

However, the problem in my opinion is nor coming from the ship nor the components. It's how evasion builds work too well, which applied to an highly offensive ship (which is fine design) results in a big OMGWTFBBQ.

 

Oh but don't get me wrong. I don't want evasion to be gutted so badly that the stats are worthless. Numbers as they're now are fine. They're approximately as good as other proposed counterparts (DR, HP...) when considering pure probabilities and accurate damage.

Where I'd like to see changes, is the accuracy on the offenders side. 15% of misses due to the weapon here, 15%-20% due to tracking penalties there... Added to evasion, it takes monstrous proportions.

 

It's fine that cannons are disadvantaged against evasion considering missiles and mines bypass it... Just the proportions are not in my opinion.

 

In my opinion, tracking penalties are fine. (Maybe that the 5% per degree of Rails and Pods should be looked at, and reduced) But I think that no weapon should have dead center accuracy below 95%.

 

Of course it should come from a deeper "reform", rebalancing cannons one by one... But that's basically my take on the matter : it's not because of the scout components, but the overall weaponry.

(Maybe we can argue that it's abnormal that the last tier of Distortion Field almost negates the only weakness of the build, and that Burst Laser have an odd balance -which should be looked at in the cannon reform I'm suggesting-, but that's it.)

Edited May 13, 2014 by Altheran

[Zoom_VI]

i'll just leave this here

Once more the Battle Scouts will rule the Meta, and then we shall have...peace.

 

[...]

 

Execute Order 66, I don't want any non-scout left alive.

 

[...]

 

So this is how balance dies, with thunderous BLC.

[Zoom_VI]

Flashfires are a craft designed with the sole purpose of running a man-to-man offense and winning while doing so. Any good FF pilot will attempt to take a giant battle and separate it into a series of 1v1 duels which it can win at. B*tching about it being good at 1v1 dueling is hilarious since its that crafts sole purpose, you might as well go into the regular PvP forum and complain about stealth classes being too good at 1v1. Complaining about FF winning all the 1v1s is like complaining about gunships being to good at range or bombers being to good at support and area denial.

 

A better question is why are you complaining about your gunship not being a good dueling class. Like seriously did you even think bombers or gunships are supposed to be dueling ships?

[SammyGStatus]

Vs Type 2s that I've played against A LOT, I'd say it's close to 65/35 with the scale towards the flashfiires, but that's only because the people that I play against a lot know how to lock down a GS. Versus less skilled players, it's quite easy to take down scouts. Versus the insanely good ones though, they have the advantage in a jousting situation or an "I'm gonna stalk you" scenario because that's their cup of tea. This is how it's been for a while. Granted there are only a few scouts I consider to be at that level. They go down when they don't blow their cds. Situational awareness is key, as is utilizing a wingman I think. While these scouts are dangerous, I think any good player is still going to do well in almost every other ship....

 

And the best scouts I've seen use quads anyways. The BLCs are more of a pain to dogfight, but we're not supposed to be dogfighting in our GSs anyways

Edited May 13, 2014 by SammyGStatus

[Verain]

You are presenting an argument, however you are failing to support that argument with any 1 v 1 testing, or concrete evidence.

 

If you believe I need to do a study to tell you that the battle scout is generally the best at every imaginable dogfighting situation, get out. Quite honestly, the ball is in your court on this one. Ludicrous numbers come out of battle scouts regularly, be they a clusters/burst build or a quads/pods build. You COULD try to defend this and say that these scouts are just best at farming food- while true, I would point out that:

 

1)- Kill farming is two of the five maps. Or two of the ten, if you count Kuat Mesas domanition six times, as it seems to pop that much. In any event, the ability to eat food DOES have value.

2)- Put aces against each other in high stakes game and some of them will fly battle scout by perceived necessity. It's just simply that good.

 

I'm not going to try to justify to you further that the battle scout is a very highly tuned ship. It has several valuable builds that all work well, and it blows the competition out of the water at its rolls.

 

 

Bombers can beat scouts in 1 v 1s but most bombers don't have the clairvoyance to actually shoot at the scout.

 

Girl bombers can't out turn the scout, can't snare him unless they are running interdiction AND he doesn't pop it, and have to live for quite a long time right next to an object to have a chance- and heaven help you if you are running a fleet support build with concussion instead of seekers. Girl bombers get eaten by scouts normally for being out of position even briefly.

 

Boy bombers are the only ship on live that can actually deny an area to the battle scout. And that's being nerfed.

 

 

 

Other folks are in here taking a high level view:

 

the Bomber rebalance is due in my opinion, because I don't see how a ship, should be able to wipe off multiple ennemy ships (regardless of class, scout, strikes, gunships, everything is wiping) by himself without particular effort or team play.

 

And that's absolutely fair. This isn't a thread about the mine nerf- it's a thread about what it will do to the meta. We STILL have a meta where battle scouts swarm everything all the time forever. Do we want to give them dominion of the nodes back?

 

If the mine nerf is happening, it can't happen in a vacuum. Do we think the railgun snare buff will scare scouts enough? I'm really not sure, especially given how hard it is to hit them.

 

Spearpoints can beat flashfires, novadives can beat flashfires

 

By numbers, most of my absolutely forgettable targets know nothing of anything. They fly forward slowly and shoot aimlessly. Up from food we have noobs, who use up their cooldowns early and can be pounced upon because they figure, I guess, that them popping disto and then hanging out under my sites has no downsides.

 

But if you compare at equal skill, I'm pretty sure you don't see any of these things beating flashfires. At best, you can have a fair fight, something the flashfire sees precious few of.

 

 

 

And I honestly don't think this is disputable, high score seekers are naturally attracted to the flashfire.

 

It's not just score. It's also contribution.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Verain

[Verain]

And the best scouts I've seen use quads anyways.

 

No, the best scouts use all the stupid weapons. There are very good quad builds and very good BLC builds and they have different strengths.

[Verain]

Flashfires are a craft designed with the sole purpose of running a man-to-man offense and winning while doing so.

 

Really? Why are the other ships supposed to be so good at dogfighting then?

 

I think at this point we can say that the flashfire is overtuned. And while in the current meta "being the best dogfighter" definitely is a sought after and played role, it's not the ONLY role.

 

But in the 2.8 meta, my big concern is that it mostly will be again, except we'll have MORE dead ships than in the past.

 

B*tching about it being good at 1v1 dueling is hilarious since its that crafts sole purpose,

 

The ability to pop any target while invincible, and then either escape or pick a new target, is hardly an acceptable "sole purpose". The fact that mines allow for a sidestepping of this defense gives an area of danger that the scout can't instantly assassinate people inside of. And for all of this, the scout is perfectly reasonable solo outside of cooldowns completely, with amazing turning, speed, and boost efficiency, as well as the ability to capitalize on sub half second damage windows.

 

you might as well go into the regular PvP forum and complain about stealth classes being too good at 1v1.

 

Which people regularly do. I don't play the ground game, but I can't scamper all the way to my chill spot anymore, because scamper has some gimpy charge system. I'm sure that was for pvp balance and no other reason. So lets not pretend that scouts should be immune because it's intended that they solo literally every ship in the game, and the 2.8 mine nerf is meant to add the final ship that isn't them to that list.

 

A better question is why are you complaining about your gunship not being a good dueling class. Like seriously did you even think bombers or gunships are supposed to be dueling ships?

 

What on earth are you even saying? This isn't about gunships, and only narrowly about bombers. Type 2 gunships are too easy to hound (especially by flashfires) and Type 1 gunships are in a fine spot- maybe even a bit too strong- and are actually getting ion railgun nerfed twice in the energy drain department (but there's a compensatory snare buff).

 

I would expect any scout to be able to knock a gunship off his roost. Heck, I'd be fine with HALF of that list staying the same. But it's just silly that nothing has any edge here, there's little play in the meta enough, and I fear it becoming less.

[Altheran]

If the mine nerf is happening, it can't happen in a vacuum. Do we think the railgun snare buff will scare scouts enough? I'm really not sure, especially given how hard it is to hit them.

 

Same here. If that's not hitting him consistantly, it will not really hinder him.

Worse, since it will hurt others as well, and considering that the slower the target is, more afterburners he'll be forced to use to move "normally" and take cover, I fear that this particular upgrade will turn the weapon into an OP/FOTM weapon, just like the current SIM build, or the old Ion tap.

 

That's why I think they should rather look at how weapons can hit a target more constantly, without altering further the Evasion/DR ratio, but by either altering cannons' base accuracy, or Rails and Pods tracking penalties. While it will hurt anyone on the recieving end, it will mainly hurt the most evasive targets, namely Scouts, which is the intended target after all.

[Toraak]

I have a few points on this.

 

1) GS's can kill a t2 scout if it's a good pilot.

 

2) GSF is not a 1 V 1 game. It is a Team game, so who cares about 1 V 1!!! people should mass target every ship possible.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Toraak

[Zoom_VI]

Really? Why are the other ships supposed to be so good at dogfighting then?

Where did you ever see this? The only other craft that even operates in the dogfighting area, is the strike, which is intended as a "jack of all trades, master of none" ship.

The ability to pop any target while invincible, and then either escape or pick a new target, is hardly an acceptable "sole purpose". The fact that mines allow for a sidestepping of this defense gives an area of danger that the scout can't instantly assassinate people inside of. And for all of this, the scout is perfectly reasonable solo outside of cooldowns completely, with amazing turning, speed, and boost efficiency, as well as the ability to capitalize on sub half second damage windows.

 

If you want to complain about evasion stacking or offensive cooldown stacking you should write threads about evasion stacking or offensive cooldown stacking instead of writing a thread that insinuates that the entire class is overpowered on principal.

 

Which people regularly do. I don't play the ground game, but I can't scamper all the way to my chill spot anymore, because scamper has some gimpy charge system. I'm sure that was for pvp balance and no other reason. So lets not pretend that scouts should be immune because it's intended that they solo literally every ship in the game, and the 2.8 mine nerf is meant to add the final ship that isn't them to that list.

The scamper nerf had nothing at all to do with the classes' 1v1 capability, rather it was due to how scamper broke every single objective based warzone. Besides deception assassins are the superior 1v1 class, and other than occasional QQ from bads, nobody has issues with them.

[TrinityLyre]

2) GSF is not a 1 V 1 game. It is a Team game, so who cares about 1 V 1!!! people should mass target every ship possible.

 

That's a terrible argument. If one ship is decidedly superior to every other, an armada of these ships would completely destroy a squadron comprised of anything else. Given the skill and coordination of both sides is equal, one side still has a decided advantage simply for choosing Flashfire/Sting at the opening screen.

 

I love scouts. I love playing scouts. But I also love playing other ships as well. Are people really so blind they can't see what this is going to lead to?

Edited May 13, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Rollory]

I just want to note that I explicitly choose the Pike / Quell to fly when I know I'll be facing T2 scouts, because I know I can hunt and kill them that way.

 

There are a few pilots who can still reliably kill me in those matchups. The really good ones. But I will keep them busy for several minutes, during which they're not rampaging through the rest of my team. Also if several scouts gang up on me then I'll have trouble - but that's a tradeoff that's fine with me.

 

Fighting these ships depends on figuring out their weaknesses and then pressing on them relentlessly, and they do have weaknesses.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril, The Ebon Hawk