2.8 PTR Ship changes wave 3 (Interdiction mine nerf+more)

[tunewalker]

Wouldn't remove distortion fields missile break but would give other components a missile break. Especially on strike fighters.

 

[

 

That would kind of kill any uniqueness to final upgrades. If the awnser to make everything equal is give everything the same choice as distortion then clearly distortion is the problem not the other things.

 

They nerfed engine maneuvers as a whole specifically to allow missiles to have more of an impact, that has been subjugated entirely by Distortion field. They would solve 2 birds with one stone by removing missile break from it and giving it a buff else where with it in line with its OTHER option of 3 seconds longer duration that NO ONE takes any more for the missile break.

 

The reason it wasnt taken before was a 10 sec CD barrel Roll or Retro was enough to keep missiles off you, now its the only one taken because people are RIGHTFULLY threatened by missiles. Strikes are fine at dodging missiles. A good strike can dodge missile breaks with just LoS and barrel Roll, its about time scouts and the Good gunship joined that party. Though I worry about the Gun ship in this regard.

 

I wont cry over a scout losing its ability to have a second missile break (except nova which currently has 3) but something would need to be done for gunships. My suggestion is a slight revert on BR nerf. Keep it costing more energy then the other maneuvers but bring its CD in line with them.

[Kalphitis]

They nerfed engine maneuvers as a whole specifically to allow missiles to have more of an impact, that has been subjugated entirely by Distortion field. They would solve 2 birds with one stone by removing missile break from it and giving it a buff else where with it in line with its OTHER option of 3 seconds longer duration that NO ONE takes any more for the missile break.

 

Well we all whined a lot about the ion railgun, eventually the devs changed it. We all whined about seismic/interdiction mines, devs are changing that now.

 

Is the distortion field missile break the next thing to whine about? Makes sense to me. Somebody go make the 'Distortion Field is a Farce' thread and let's go from there...

 

GS play would significantly change...it would be worthwhile to make a GS actually have to move to break a missle though.

[Verain]

Tdistortion then clearly distortion is the problem not the other things.

 

No one doubts it is the most powerful option. But would removing this missile break be better for the game?

 

They nerfed engine maneuvers as a whole specifically to allow missiles to have more of an impact, that has been subjugated entirely by Distortion field.

 

If you think it is the same as before the patch, you're simply nuts. It's much harder on all ships to dodge missiles, and much easier on all ships to land them.

 

They would solve 2 birds with one stone by removing missile break from it and giving it a buff else where with it in line with its OTHER option of 3 seconds longer duration that NO ONE takes any more for the missile break.

 

If disto field lost the missile break, it would be the largest possible change in the meta. Currently type 2 scouts and type 1 gunships need this.

 

Strikes are fine at dodging missiles. A good strike can dodge missile breaks with just LoS and barrel Roll, its about time scouts and the Good gunship joined that party.

 

Sure, just make sure that the gunship can railgun while moving.

 

Strikes can't dodge missiles just fine, by the way. This is a big part of why we don't see as many strikes as we should at top levels of play.

[Verain]

well what if Feedback did 600 damage for every hit you landed on it for its duration.... then it would be a sufficient defense/ offense.

 

Obviously that would be a ton of damage, but:

 

1- "reflects damage every time you are hit" would favor BLC, make rapid fire terrible.

2- enough damage to really matter- such as 600 per hit- would basically mean it's an invincibility button except versus bads, who would tunnel you and die and come to the forums and cry.

3- I think the entire idea of telling a scout "if you hit this guy you will die" is bad. So if it does enough damage to say that, it's bad design. If it doesn't do enough damage to say this, it's not worth pressing. So it's a bad move!

[Verain]

But if you're saying it's either 1600 or 1760, that means the 10% buff DOES apply.

 

It was already pointed out that this number is with or without the T5 talent- 1600 if you don't have it or take left, 1760 if you have it and take right.

 

But if the f settings did apply, you'd see three numbers there, not two (1520,1600,1760).

[Kalphitis]

If disto field lost the missile break, it would be the largest possible change in the meta. Currently type 2 scouts and type 1 gunships need this..

 

Do they really need it? Really?

 

Strikes can't dodge missiles just fine, by the way. This is a big part of why we don't see as many strikes as we should at top levels of play.

 

They can dodge missiles just fine, just have to be smarter about it and use your surroundings to your advantage. It requires smart play, as opposed to randomly pressing one button and 'Yay - auto missile break woowoo!'

 

I agree that this is one of the big reasons we don't see as many strikes. Tune and I are some of the rare ones that frequently do play it. I personally feel that the SF missile break is fine as is.

 

Should not scouts have the same constraint? They are more maneuverable, and faster. Do gunships really need the ability to break missiles while simultaneously firing railguns? Really?

[Devrius]

Do they really need it? Really?

 

 

They can dodge missiles just fine, just have to be smarter about it and use your surroundings to your advantage. It requires smart play, as opposed to randomly pressing one button and 'Yay - auto missile break woowoo!'

 

I agree that this is one of the big reasons we don't see as many strikes. Tune and I are some of the rare ones that frequently do play it. I personally feel that the SF missile break is fine as is.

 

Should not scouts have the same constraint? They are more maneuverable, and faster. Do gunships really need the ability to break missiles while simultaneously firing railguns? Really?

 

This is coming from a guy who would gladly see GSF have all GS removed from the game: yes they really need it.

 

I play a T1 striker, almost exclusively now. I almost always end up having shot all my Proton torpedoes by the time my ship gets blown up. Many of those end up turning a GS into space debris.

 

To shoot they need a clear shot, and it's not like they can out speed or out maneuver me when I put double shield in front of me and fly at them zig zaging with running interference and hit retro thrusters once I'm in range of HLCs they have 2 choices: stay their ground and gamble that their railshot will hit me or fly away and hope someone peels for them, that's it.

 

Unlike a T2 scout that can run for cover or dogfight a GS has 2 modes: run like a headless chicken while praying for a peel or stand and fight.

[tunewalker]

No one doubts it is the most powerful option. But would removing this missile break be better for the game?

 

 

 

If you think it is the same as before the patch, you're simply nuts. It's much harder on all ships to dodge missiles, and much easier on all ships to land them.

 

 

 

If disto field lost the missile break, it would be the largest possible change in the meta. Currently type 2 scouts and type 1 gunships need this.

 

 

 

Sure, just make sure that the gunship can railgun while moving.

 

Strikes can't dodge missiles just fine, by the way. This is a big part of why we don't see as many strikes as we should at top levels of play.

 

Check my edit, the gunship I feel would have a serious problem if they lost the double missile break, the scout on the other hand would be in the same boat as the strike, and yes if you fly right you can dodge missiles with a strike. The real reason people dont play strike is because Scouts and Gunships can easily dodge their strongest hitting maneuvers and then completely shut them down.

 

A Gunship has the range and the Damage along with 2 missile breaks (if it only had 1 on a 20 Second CD it would be WAY TO WEAK maybe if it was only 15 seconds it might be fine) while the scout has the speed 2 missile breaks with 1 of them being a 15 second CD. Landing a missile other then cluster on a scout is like pulling teeth especially if you only have 1 missile, and minus the Pike which specializes in this all ships only have 1 missile.

 

yes its easier to land missiles then before the patch, but ultimately it hasnt put Strikes on the map because its still to hard to land missiles, Specifically Concussive missiles. If Protons were easy to land every where it would be OP, so balancing this is a problem, but ultimately its not that easy to land a proton on a good strike that knows to LoS right when they blow their defensive maneuver. When i get a missile finished on me in my Strike I go whoops I played stupid or I go, well played sir you got me. I dont feel like i need MORE missile breaks I always feel like others need less.

 

Again Save for gunship really unless some of the BR nerf was reverted to allow it to have a modicum of a chance against anything that looks at it funny. Because the Gunship just doenst have the speed or the maneuvering to remove a Strike once it closes. if it didnt have the double missile break it would be way to easy for a strike to close on it and completely nuter the gunship. So I am not sure what the awnser is, but its not give every shield a missile break, that would cripple Strikes more, not less as while the strike can now dodge missiles landing one is nearly back to pre patch as EVERYONE now has 2 missile breaks rather then every one having 10 second missile break and only SOME haveing 2.

 

 

Also Type 2 scouts DO not NEED a double missile break. They have some of the highest burst while also being some of the most maneuverable ships, their evasion is high enough in conjunction with their shields and their speed to give them good laser defense, and they have a 15 second CD missile break option. One of the best in the game with retros. They dont NEED 2 missile breaks. Having 2 missile breaks are why they are to strong at the moment. Hard to hit with lasers, hard to hit with missiles and impossible to remove with out assistance or with out being another scout once they are on. The only counters right now to a Scout is a GS that the scout hasnt noticed which is rare. A bomber that is on a node which counters everything on a node cus thats its job, and another scout.

 

This is why Strikes arent even considered in the Meta beyond the clarion bringing the heals.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tunewalker

[Pilgrim_Grey]

They can dodge missiles just fine, just have to be smarter about it and use your surroundings to your advantage. It requires smart play, as opposed to randomly pressing one button and 'Yay - auto missile break woowoo!'

 

I agree that this is one of the big reasons we don't see as many strikes. Tune and I are some of the rare ones that frequently do play it. I personally feel that the SF missile break is fine as is.

 

Should not scouts have the same constraint? They are more maneuverable, and faster. Do gunships really need the ability to break missiles while simultaneously firing railguns? Really?

 

At first I was wanting to say "no, strikes are not fine at missile breaks, scouts have it a lot easier," but I guess you were going in that direction.

 

I'm... less keen on removing distortion field's break for gunships, though. I don't think they're in the weak place some people want to put them, but they are a lot more vulnerable than they used to be. I think the main solution there is to make their other defensive choices viable options, and the devs are going in that direction.

 

Given that, I think the better option is working on some other aspect that just affects scouts, particularly since Types 1 and 2 both have an extra break option. Even then, they do have armor weaknesses (compared to strikes) that make it so you do have to be careful of how far you go--as the interdiction mine issue shows.

 

Personally, I have a lot more success at landing missiles now with the change to missile breaks, so I don't know if I'm all the way to thinking scouts need to be more vulnerable to them than they are now. I'm more worried about how good BLC and cluster missiles are at the moment.

[Verain]

Check my edit, the gunship I feel would have a serious problem if they lost the double missile break

 

It would really take away gunships as anything but very well monitored support.

 

the scout on the other hand would be in the same boat as the strike, and yes if you fly right you can dodge missiles with a strike

 

Anyone can evade missiles. The question is, can you also do anything else? And in the case of a scout, trivially. In the case of a strike, no. In the case of a gunship, absolutely not at all- which is, I would imagine, why there's the extra missile break.

 

The real reason people dont play strike is because Scouts and Gunships can easily dodge their strongest hitting maneuvers and then completely shut them down.

 

I'm... not sure if it is that simple.

 

 

Strikes almost work. I don't think distortion field is all of it.

 

Ex: A scout boosts towards me. The fact that he has disto is icing on the cake- he's going to shoot me and blast past me, at which point if I try to chase him in a turn fight, I'm boned. The disto allows him to burst under pressure and it allows him to deal with multiple targets a bit. As a strike, my best option is to change to a different target and harass him, and call for peels on the dumb scout.

 

Ex: I see a gunship. He doesn't see me, he's sniping my friends. I have two options: make a tone play, at which point he'll boost, line of sight, barrel at the last second, or disto at the last second. OR, I can just boost towards him and begin firing lasers point blank. I don't have rocket pods to augment, I don't have a strike fighter version of rocket pods, I don't have a damage cooldown. What I have is heavy lasers or at best quads firing at their full rate, making the gunship have to leave his roost.

 

 

These are the strike problems- in neither of these cases does the strike have a good tactic to kill. The extra range on the strike doesn't help in the first case, and doesn't actually stop the gunship from shooting in the second.

 

 

Any further nerfs to gunship escapes would make them absurdly hard to snipe with. It would be trivial for any bad to shut one down forever.

 

As a great example, check out what happens if you are on your Dustmaker versus just a couple decent enemies. Do you think that's the baseline that the game should be designed around?

 

 

Distortion field is definitely too strong. But I'm not sure if we want to play a game that is just missile spam either.

 

 

Also Type 2 scouts DO not NEED a double missile break.

 

This one I could kind of get behind.

 

 

I think my real point is this: if we want to get rid of the disto field missile break- which I think would improve the game, because the disto field missile break is a big difference between baby and experienced ships, and because it has precious little animation and already allows for very strong tanking during burst- then we would probably also want to fix the low cooldown missiles, specifically cluster spam.

 

 

aka: you could kill the disto field missile break, but you also need to adjust other things then.

[tunewalker]

Didnt think about it, actually the second Gunship I dont have that much issue with, but then again it also has a missile as its second option. It can be rough to snipe when you get some one on you, but its not absolutely aweful unless the pilot on you is really good. At which point it should be aweful...... I am not sure. Part of me wants to say from the experience of playing the Comet breaker that not having 2 missile breaks isnt terrible.

 

 

Edit: honestly if they removed it the quarrel would be the best sniper but most vulnerable while some one was on it and then it would slightly less for the second gun ship and the least for the new one. With out the disto field break all of the gunships now ahve a different intersting role. So would it imprve the game.... YES.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tunewalker

[JeepWithGuy]

If you think it is the same as before the patch, you're simply nuts. It's much harder on all ships to dodge missiles, and much easier on all ships to land them.

Let's not get hasty and say 'much harder'. The gunships got their CD doubled, so that's say 3x per minute instead of 6x? Was a gunship spamming barrel roll every 10 seconds really contributing offensively?

 

It's when gunships are left alone that they are nastiest. So IF someone engages a gunship, AND they are using missiles, AND there is no cover, AND the attacking ship can get a 3 second missile lock, AND all this happens in that 10 second window, then yes, the gunship eats it. The gunship has to survive 10 seconds longer than before. Other ships suffered less significant nerfs, making the increased chance to hit them even smaller.

 

I'm not debating the good/bad in engine ability missile break nerfs, I'm just pointing out that it was a small buff for missile ships, not a backbreaking game changer. You can tell this by the number of people that dropped the t2 scout for the t2 strikes, and by all the players that abandoned gunships.

Edited May 12, 2014 by JeepWithGuy

[Kalphitis]

....get rid of the disto field missile break- which I think would improve the game......

 

aka: you could kill the disto field missile break, but you also need to adjust other things then.

 

Kill the disto field missile break *thumbs up*

 

As far as adjusting other things, I wouldn't worry about things like cluster missile spam becoming an issue. It's not an issue for me in a SF now.

 

The only adjustments would really need made to gunships, to make playing them more palatable. So how do you adjust the GS if disto field missile break is removed?

 

Reducing the cooldown of BR seems unlikely, since Bioware just lengthened it and said they didn't like BR being utilized as a speedy movement tool.

[Kuciwalker]

Let's not get hasty and say 'much harder'. The gunships got their CD doubled, so that's say 3x per minute instead of 6x? Was a gunship spamming barrel roll every 10 seconds really contributing offensively?

 

Yes.

 

I'm not debating the good/bad in engine ability missile break nerfs, I'm just pointing out that it was a small buff for missile ships, not a backbreaking game changer.

 

Yes, it was. I don't fly gunships against good players anymore because it isn't worth it. I fly a Flashfire.

 

The gunship has to survive 10 seconds longer than before.

 

10 seconds is for *********** ever in GSF.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[JeepWithGuy]

Yes, it was. I don't fly gunships against good players anymore because it isn't worth it. I fly a Flashfire.

So there's no players you know of doing well/good/great with gunships anymore? No gunships outperforming you in your Flashfire on more than a sporadic basis?

10 seconds is for *********** ever in GSF.

I agree, but I already mentioned i'm not debating the merits of the Nerf to gunships. You're focused on gunships. If all 8 enemy ships were always gunships, then I'd have to agree with you. There are usually only 2-3 gunships, leaving 5-6 other ships. A 10 second advantage on few ships, and 5 seconds on many ships, is not a huge advantage. As a gunship, that 10 seconds affects you 100% of the time. As a strike fighter, it affects me 25-33% of the time.

[Verain]

I feel that the type 2 gunship is generally a bit too weak. I wouldn't want the type 1 gunship to fall to that level. I'm certainly not surprised that all the strike mains do, however!

[tommmsunb]

Flat-out, you need 2 missile breaks in this game. Even with LOS, even with cooldown management. If you want to nerf this, suggest adding more things that "waste" the cooldown. For instance, seeker mines and cluster missiles waste the cooldown because they're spammable. A neat tool they could maybe give to strike fighters is to trick a target into thinking a missile is being launched.

 

And for the record, if you think strikes aren't in the meta, you're doing it wrong. Strikes are the single best bomber killer there is. There is no comparison when compared with gunships and scouts and even other bombers. Gunships are easily countered by LOS and scouts are limited by their low EHP and close range. Strikes can just pummel bombers with protons and HLCs from range.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tommmsunb

[tunewalker]

I feel that the type 2 gunship is generally a bit too weak. I wouldn't want the type 1 gunship to fall to that level. I'm certainly not surprised that all the strike mains do, however!

 

well what would your solution be to make strikes actually useful in a game. Strikes are the only ones with the dangerous missiles and the whole arguement for them doing less damage having shorter range and being able to dodge out of easier (which would still be the case even with everyone just having 1) is that you can fire your lasers and move with them. Which is fair enough, but because of the double missile break and their shorter range and smaller damage Strikes are not even considered truly useful in the meta.

 

People talk about how distortion feild is the best shield out there because it allows some one to get another missile break making every other shield option not worth it. So we have 2 birds here. The first bird is Distortion is to strong because it is the only shield that offers a missiles break. The second is that Strike fighters are still to weak because other then bombers and themselves everything has 2 missile breaks save for 1 other type of gunship, thus every ship has much stonger defenses against strikes then those ships have against anything else as only the strikes offensive abilities are really killed by this. The only stone that need casting to fix this discrepency is to remove the missile break from DF. If it puts GS into a bad place, make BR down to a 15 second CD while retaining its slightly larger energy drain.... done.

 

If I can get even K/D on a Comet breaker in a rough game and the Comet breaker doesnt have BLC or Ion Rail to help it out then clearly even with a single 20 second missile break there is something to be said for the strength of a sniper.

 

 

Try a comet breaker for a few games. Watch in amazement as you still can top the score board and get kills left and right thanks to range and damage of a slug gun alone. Will you die.... likely yes, but personally If i dont get killed in a match its because their was nothing but noobs in that match any way. And if you are fighting such people they are likely to just leave the GS alone any way, or your going to be able to Ion and or BLC them and be done with them any way.

 

Seriously the worst solution would be add missile break to every shield in an attempt to balance DF, because then we are right back to where the devs specifically said they didnt want to be with the whole "missiles are harder to land then intended".

[tunewalker]

Flat-out, you need 2 missile breaks in this game. Even with LOS, even with cooldown management. If you want to nerf this, suggest adding more things that "waste" the cooldown. For instance, seeker mines and cluster missiles waste the cooldown because they're spammable. A neat tool they could maybe give to strike fighters is to trick a target into thinking a missile is being launched.

 

And for the record, if you think strikes aren't in the meta, you're doing it wrong. Strikes are the single best bomber killer there is. There is no comparison when compared with gunships and scouts and even other bombers. Gunships are easily countered by LOS and scouts are limited by their low EHP and close range. Strikes can just pummel bombers with protons and HLCs from range.

 

The bomber has very little to no role in TDM. Also while Strikes can be better at killing Bombers. GS and Scouts can still do it and still be the best at killing everything else as well. Strikes are best at killing bombers and meh at everything else. Scouts and GS are amazing at everything except alright at killing bombers.

 

 

Edit: seriously besides giving every shield a missile break whats your solution to balancing DF? What would make the other shields usable over it? As long as it has its missile break I garantee you the awnser is nothing. That doesnt make for a system that rewards different play styles.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tunewalker

[Altheran]

I feel that the type 2 gunship is generally a bit too weak. I wouldn't want the type 1 gunship to fall to that level. I'm certainly not surprised that all the strike mains do, however!

 

Technically, type 2 isn't that weak.

Type 2 strikes with Concussion and Proton are good, the gunship just has Slug Rail instead of Concussion. It works differently, but in theory, it's good enough to land kills, and enough to stand his own.

 

In my opinion, the problem is more than it's clunky to use compared to the type 2 strike and type 1 gunship, because of hybrid playstyle mixing sniping and regular flight, and that the type 1 overperforms the type 2. (especially on survivability, higher damage is normal considering this one specializes in killing "the regular way" while the other specializes to kill "ignoring shields")

[tommmsunb]

The bomber has very little to no role in TDM. Also while Strikes can be better at killing Bombers. GS and Scouts can still do it and still be the best at killing everything else as well. Strikes are best at killing bombers and meh at everything else. Scouts and GS are amazing at everything except alright at killing bombers.

 

 

Edit: seriously besides giving every shield a missile break whats your solution to balancing DF? What would make the other shields usable over it? As long as it has its missile break I guarantee you the answer is nothing. That doesn't make for a system that rewards different play styles.

 

You have a distinct lack of creativity friend. Never guarantee that my answer is nothing. Also you clearly haven't seen the refuel and recharge station tactics that we've developed in TDM.

 

Bombers create choke-points. They also destroy choke-points. While yes, they are less effective in flat-out killing than gunships and scouts, that is not their role. They are support, and if you are trying to dogfight in a bomber you are doing. it. wrong.

 

Secondly, distortion field is balanced the way it is. As far as scouts are concerned, the other options that are presented do not fit with the mentality of the ship. The ship is meant to use speed as its main line of defense and yet it is trying to pass off shields as the tool to be used? I'm sorry but that was just lazy game design, either come up with new shield abilities or don't bother trying to balance it because these play styles are more suited to strike fighters or bombers.

 

Same story with gunships. Their main defense is distance and stealth. I would be happier with them coming up with something that disables shields entirely in favor of a cloaking device than anything that buffs shields. Or, alternatively something that creates a hologram of their ship to throw off opponents where they would have to guess which one was real.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tommmsunb

[General_Brass]

You have a distinct lack of creativity friend. Never guarantee that my answer is nothing. Also you clearly haven't seen the refuel and recharge station tactics that we've developed in TDM.

 

 

Under current conditions it's suboptimal. If you have 4 premades fighting each other both using voice, yes then you can have the coordination to make that work. As it stands just having voice coordinating premades is enough to destroy the other sides day, and killing quickly in a focused way gets the job done faster.

[tommmsunb]

Under current conditions it's suboptimal. If you have 4 premades fighting each other both using voice, yes then you can have the coordination to make that work. As it stands just having voice coordinating premades is enough to destroy the other sides day, and killing quickly in a focused way gets the job done faster.

 

This is a multiplayer game. It should be the status quo to run pre-mades.

[tunewalker]

I am aware but you generally dont see more then 1 or 2 bombers in a 8-12 man team as you dont need more then that the same can be said for strikes. Obviously having a few of these ships is fine, but the problem is the rest of the team can stack all the rest, and even if you dont have strikes to counter these bombers stacking gunships and scouts still works fine.

You dont see any TDM team stack bombers or strike only ever do you see stacked GS and Scouts.... but lets really get to the bottom of this shall we.

 

 

 

What does Distortions missile lock break do for a ship with it? It protects it from ships that use Hard hitting long lock on time Long reload time for their burst damage potential.

 

Who has the ability to use DF? Scouts and Type 1 Gunship (Nova Dive, Flash Fire, Spear point, Quarrel)

 

Who requires Long lock on time/ reload time missiles to dish their burst damage? Spear Point, Star Gaurd, Pike, Clarion, Comet breaker (to a lesser extent), Rampart who opts for single target to be more useful in TDM with Protons, Warcarrier who opted for Missiles instead of Mines for again long range support in TDM.

 

Who has the ability to burst with out long lock times? Nova Dive, Flash Fire and Quarrel, Comet breaker(to a lesser degree)

 

Who are the Strongest ships as of right now? Flash Fire, Nove Dive and Quarrel.

 

Why? because their defensive ability protects them from all other options while their offensive ability is not as badly hindered by the same said option. AkA their Defense counters all competition except themselves, while their Offensive burst options are not specifically countered by anything else. By removing the missile lock and replacing it with "Distortion field adds an additional 15% evasion" or something to the like instead. It brings Distortion in line with other abilities similar to it and it helps make the ships that require Hard missile locks for burst damage in line with the ships that dont.

 

One or the other is not enough as we see with the comet breaker and the Spearpoint, but the lack of disto missile drop would up both these ships to an extent.

 

In other words it nerfs the 3 strongest ships while buffing all of the weakest ships. Which correct me if I am wrong but when trying to balance things thats generally the goal. To make those that are to strong weaker, and those that are to weak stronger.

Edited May 12, 2014 by tunewalker

[Magira]

This is a multiplayer game. It should be the status quo to run pre-mades.

 

Right. Therefore, you should also play with all together, not only with your schoolyard gang. PUGing is MMO, Premade NOT.