Solutions to issues faced by Carnage/Combat

[scylence]

If you feel the need to put so many people on your ignore list I wonder who really is the "childish one" here...

 

I see what you are trying to do but it won't work. Logically if we have already proven they cannot provide a single piece of evidence for over 30 pages in a thread when burden of proof was on them, evidence that is extremely easy to obtain (if what they were arguing was true), clearly they are trolls.... and when the only thing they can provide are links to unrelated videos like my little pony or something and just about every fallacy in the book, in what was supposed to be an intelligent debate they have proven that their maturity, much less intelligence brings any opinion they may have to a level where it is not even worth the read.

 

 

Idiotic.

 

Carnage needs execute to work as a stacking debuff up to 3 like they did with madness.

 

Ataru form gives 1 stack of execute, each stack increases the damage deal by 3.33% (10% at 3 stacks)., increases the crit chance by 33.33% (100% at 3), and reduces the rage cost by 1/2/3. Making scream free instead of costing 2 and refunding 1 after use will fix flow problems. It will also reduce the rage starvation carnage maras face. Stacking buff for execute also removes RNG.

 

Slaughter should not be able to proc while gore is off cooldown.

 

And that's pretty much it. You cannot give carnage marauders cc immunity. Vengeance seems broken now because of ED. Carnage has more burst than veng, less control, and the ability to be shut down. CC immunity = me globalling your entire team.

 

Same situation as the other thread......

If you can global people so consistently, providing video evidence should as easy as breathing.

 

 

I'm not going to troll scylence this time and try to engage in constructive discussion.

 

1) No reflecting CC. This is a bad idea, and I think you know it. GBTF/UR is a powerful ability with a powerful drawback. I think GBTF should free you from CC effects in addition to its normal effect, instead of providing CC-immunity for the duration. While CC is an issue for the Marauder (and non-Vengeance Juggernauts), total immunity might not be the way to go. I think escape abilities would be a better idea. Combined with your normal CC-break and Resolve, this should give Marauders enough tools to avoid/escape CC.

 

2) 1.5%/3%. Stacks twice. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with Marauders being tanky, but 10% might be a bit too much.

 

3 & 4) This has already been suggested before in a previous thread. Still, I think it's a great change and is in-line with the developers' move towards less RNG-based specs.

 

5) Might wanna make it 3s. If you Leap from max distance, 1s of the immunity is eaten up by travel time, they way it does for Unstoppable/Unremitting. Your target can still interrupt the last tick of Ravage if they time it right (like they can do with Vengeance Juggernauts).

 

Yes, Someone already covered the CC reflect for #1, and I retracted/modified my suggestion in the reply but I will do it in the OP as well

 

as for #2. It was only a 4% total increase in DR and minus 1 stack max. The defense increase was removed, from what is an already lackluster and underutilized talent. If it remains at 6% might as well drop it way lower in the spec tree as it is not worthy of it's position, or replace it all together. Sometimes I feel like there are people who see some number like 10% in 1 spot and they go crazy. I could have added the same effect to a completely different talent in the same tree that would give another 4% DR for 10s and people wouldn't mind.

Edited May 8, 2014 by scylence

[Dawginole]

I would like to see a change to Opportune Strike. I am either chewing through a bar of Focus waiting for it to proc or I am not able to stay on target any more due to changes to ranged classes long enough to get it to proc. Some sort of move to an auto proc like many of the other classes have gotten is really all I'm looking for in a change to this class atm. Other than that the possibility of our root not costing Focus since it is absolutely necessary to use now that most players are playing classes with a roll or speed burst escape. And using the root further eats Focus leaving less to try to get that damn OS to proc. Of course an auto proc solves this and it would be fine to continue to keep it the same using up Focus.

[XeniusX]

Let me just say to the people that say UR is the best DCD in the game: Do you even play marauder bro ? I'd gladly change the entire DCD to pretty much anything. 5 seconds of 40% dmg red, heck 30 %.. It's an almost useless ability in regs. 50% of the time you are CC'ed and other 50% you might do a little extra dmg but that dmg will prob 1/100 games be useful for your team because if you are dying like that then your team is prob dying fast and you won't win anyway.. if you are uber lucky then maybe you could save yourself in ranked with it, but if the team is half decent then they would CC me. Hell, i'd even remove the entire DCD and get Force camo on lower CD instead.

 

Over to topic:

 

No, i'm sorry but you have a lot to learn. Yes carnage marauders have an annoying RNG aspect over itself, and it would be nice to get a more reliable rotation (spamming 5 massacres, lol no scream fml) but giving carnage ANY type of CC protection will be OP. i would destroy vs any class. The point is that if you don't stop a carnage from attacking (i'm thinking gore+ravage party here) and getting his procs to scream etc etc you are going to have a bad time, which means; if you CAN't stop them because he is CC immune then sucks to be you i guess. KB immunity i don't get ? why would you leap a KB capable fella in the back when you could just go up to him and leap him after KB ? which is much better. Think about it. if you do that, then you won't have to deal with slowed movement after KB when u have to move up to him (cause obviously a skilled player would wait for your KB immunity passes) besides: Predation bby!!... When i think about it, it would be nice to get to leap closer to objective and controll situation without worrying about a KB but that is highly situational.

 

The fact of the matter is that Carnage marauders just are very very hard to play in regs and thats because of lots of different factors that i'm not going to go in too. The class just requires a lot of practice in WZs, how to respond to situations, how to utilize your surroundings, how not to leap in get KB and die instantly etc etc.

[MusicRider]

Slaughter should not be able to proc while gore is off cooldown.

 

That is one change that I would support even if I don't main the class anymore, as first gore now is pretty much forced to avoid overlap. +1

[scylence]

Let me just say to the people that say UR is the best DCD in the game: Do you even play marauder bro ? I'd gladly change the entire DCD to pretty much anything. 5 seconds of 40% dmg red, heck 30 %.. It's an almost useless ability in regs. 50% of the time you are CC'ed and other 50% you might do a little extra dmg but that dmg will prob 1/100 games be useful for your team because if you are dying like that then your team is prob dying fast and you won't win anyway.. if you are uber lucky then maybe you could save yourself in ranked with it, but if the team is half decent then they would CC me. Hell, i'd even remove the entire DCD and get Force camo on lower CD instead.

 

Over to topic:

 

No, i'm sorry but you have a lot to learn. Yes carnage marauders have an annoying RNG aspect over itself, and it would be nice to get a more reliable rotation (spamming 5 massacres, lol no scream fml) but giving carnage ANY type of CC protection will be OP. i would destroy vs any class. The point is that if you don't stop a carnage from attacking (i'm thinking gore+ravage party here) and getting his procs to scream etc etc you are going to have a bad time, which means; if you CAN't stop them because he is CC immune then sucks to be you i guess. KB immunity i don't get ? why would you leap a KB capable fella in the back when you could just go up to him and leap him after KB ? which is much better. Think about it. if you do that, then you won't have to deal with slowed movement after KB when u have to move up to him (cause obviously a skilled player would wait for your KB immunity passes) besides: Predation bby!!... When i think about it, it would be nice to get to leap closer to objective and controll situation without worrying about a KB but that is highly situational.

 

The fact of the matter is that Carnage marauders just are very very hard to play in regs and thats because of lots of different factors that i'm not going to go in too. The class just requires a lot of practice in WZs, how to respond to situations, how to utilize your surroundings, how not to leap in get KB and die instantly etc etc.

 

**** UPDATED THE ORIGINAL POST *****

 

2-3s of KB protection on leap is conservative, and would be useful. 2-3s on leap is not enough time for a full rotation, and they would still be open to being stunned/mezzed. Also, CC is thrown around at a whim, so are knockbacks, so you can't just justify it doesn't make sense because of some specific X situation where some random KB user has no friends around to KB you as well.

 

Other then that, I agree with you on UR. I think it is actually one of the worst DCDs in the game, if not the worst. I'd also prefer not having it at all if Camo had like a 20s cd

Edited May 8, 2014 by scylence

[Savej]

Reflecting stuns(for 5 seconds followed by half health lost) is a "hard counter to all classes"? Hah! People really love their cccrutches. Edited May 8, 2014 by Savej

[XeniusX]

You can't challenge me on my argument being a set situation 1v1, which should be the case, with "where some random KB user has no friends around to KB you as well". Here you bring in another factor to the game, you say "friends around", who's to say I don't have friends for instance that stun or otherwise controll the situation like this guy's friend. Random events, like KBs etc etc in a WZ is a problem that all melee classes have, not just marauders and although we are probably topping the charts of CC in the game, i don't think a KB resistance only after leap would help much but thats my opinion. What I would rather see tho is marauders getting some sort of HO, immunity to snare and root effects for say 3 seconds or something would be very helpful in those crowded annoying matches. It would be a QoL tho and not that nessecary.

 

You're argument for CC immunity is, i dunno, it just makes sense to not have it. Everytime i get full resolve i am almost giddy in my chair for now i can finally just leap a ****er and gore+ravage him, with berserk up and rage available the target is pretty much done for. I melt people easily enough without CC immunity sticking up peoples behinds.

 

The biggest problem with the spec is the RNG of Scream proc imo.

[scylence]

You can't challenge me on my argument being a set situation 1v1, which should be the case, with "where some random KB user has no friends around to KB you as well". Here you bring in another factor to the game, you say "friends around", who's to say I don't have friends for instance that stun or otherwise controll the situation like this guy's friend. Random events, like KBs etc etc in a WZ is a problem that all melee classes have, not just marauders and although we are probably topping the charts of CC in the game, i don't think a KB resistance only after leap would help much but thats my opinion. What I would rather see tho is marauders getting some sort of HO, immunity to snare and root effects for say 3 seconds or something would be very helpful in those crowded annoying matches. It would be a QoL tho and not that nessecary.

 

You're argument for CC immunity is, i dunno, it just makes sense to not have it. Everytime i get full resolve i am almost giddy in my chair for now i can finally just leap a ****er and gore+ravage him, with berserk up and rage available the target is pretty much done for. I melt people easily enough without CC immunity sticking up peoples behinds.

 

The biggest problem with the spec is the RNG of Scream proc imo.

 

FIrst off I updated the OP before and already, removing the CC reflect...

 

 

Second, I can argue the validity of /with friends more then you can argue the validity of 1v1. What part of the game is based on 1v1s? the dueling feature? What part of the game is based on gvg? 99% of it.

 

KB immunity right after a force leap is still very useful. I have already pointed out why, and the need for it

Predation already counteracts portions of snares that we may encounter, so does leap itself (ofc the opponent can always kite smart but that is a diff story). KB protection, even for that short period of time is far more useful then a 2-3s immunity to snares and roots, something of which wouldn't even be useful on something like leap.

[MusicRider]

5.) Stagger

Knockback immunity is now granted for [1.5 / 3] seconds immediately after a Force charge.

 

WHAT? NO MORE UNSTOPPABLE SUGGESTIONS??? AND WITHOUT ANY "VIDEO" EVIDENCE BY SOMEONE? Tsts. I am disappointed. You are starting to lose it kid. ROFL.

 

I guess those troll kids must be right. LOL.

 

PS: If you want kb immunity on leap you have to increase cd time of precision slash and lockout of hand of justice to at least 30s each.... Surely you can't even imagine why that is so, but I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the cds of mezzes/stuns, the number of PS windows you can have in their cd duration, the resolve bar and the burst a sentinel can do in a PS window (yeah yeah we know /24 video).

[XeniusX]

FIrst off I updated the OP before and already, removing the CC reflect...

 

 

Second, I can argue the validity of /with friends more then you can argue the validity of 1v1. What part of the game is based on 1v1s? the dueling feature? What part of the game is based on gvg? 99% of it.

 

KB immunity right after a force leap is still very useful. I have already pointed out why, and the need for it

Predation already counteracts portions of snares that we may encounter, so does leap itself (ofc the opponent can always kite smart but that is a diff story). KB protection, even for that short period of time is far more useful then a 2-3s immunity to snares and roots, something of which wouldn't even be useful on something like leap.

 

I was more thinking in the line of if we would get KB immunity i would rather have it wiht a HO ability thing. Although to be frank i was thinking along the lines of sages and snipers root, using force camo to rootbreak is so annoying. but whatever. i dont care, predation is the ***** for thos snare moments that's true.

 

Well, i would argue that its more reasonable to think in the lines of *how much can a guy protect himself VS how many utilities I need to counter it. This makes more sense to me than to have abilitys that could potentially counter yet another persons DCD, which i don't personally see the reasons for. The 2-3 seconds tho is not much, and it most likely would not be gamebreaking.

[scylence]

I was more thinking in the line of if we would get KB immunity i would rather have it wiht a HO ability thing. Although to be frank i was thinking along the lines of sages and snipers root, using force camo to rootbreak is so annoying. but whatever. i dont care, predation is the ***** for thos snare moments that's true.

 

Well, i would argue that its more reasonable to think in the lines of *how much can a guy protect himself VS how many utilities I need to counter it. This makes more sense to me than to have abilitys that could potentially counter yet another persons DCD, which i don't personally see the reasons for. The 2-3 seconds tho is not much, and it most likely would not be gamebreaking.

 

Yes I understand your reservations, I originally had the KB protection set at 2 seconds, but another poster pointed out the delay from leaping itself, which Is why I raised it to 3s.

 

 

I was even thinking as an alternative, for UR that is, would it not make a ton more sense if it was more of an activate + fire and forget ability like Kolto overload?

 

Like this:

Undying Rage/GBTF:

 

Instant

Activating this ability surrounds the user in the protection of the force that lasts up to 60 seconds, Undying Rage is triggered when your health is reduced to 20% health or less. If your health is already 20% or less, Undying rage triggers immediately. Once triggered, Undying Rage goes on cooldown for 3 minutes, reduces all damage taken by 99% for 5s. Undying Rage also clears the user of all movement impairing effects once triggered and again when the effect ends. When the effect of Undying Rage ends the player loses 50% of their current HP

Edited May 8, 2014 by scylence

[Savej]

The problem with kbs is that there are so many on short cooldowns and most are aoe. So if Joe the Sage kbs the op that he's dueling next to me, my mara could easily get caught by that and interrupted - Joe might not know or care about me but I'm still f'd. Many 4v4 melees can have 8 or more aoe kbs firing every minute - making ravage impossible unless i get my char and his target away from his friends. But guess who decides where the melee fight happens? A: NOT Maras!

[davaniel]

Seems the discussion has gone back to relatively realistic levels.

 

Just bear in mind OP claimed in the other thread that it's impossible to keep track of who used their cc-breaker.

[scylence]

Seems the discussion has gone back to relatively realistic levels.

 

Just bear in mind OP claimed in the other thread that it's impossible to keep track of who used their cc-breaker.

 

feel free to quote where I said impossible, or end up on ignore like the rest. One can only assume you are just a troll if all you do is try to put "words in my mouth".

 

 

Any input on the kolto overload version of UR above?

Edited May 8, 2014 by scylence

[XeniusX]

I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break

[scylence]

I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break

 

yea maybe have that version of UR have 3 min CD like KO does.

The nice thing is the fact it root breaks when the ability triggers and when it ends and u get hit with the 50% hp hit.

 

 

 

Maybe if Camo naturally broke roots and snares by default, the Unbound talent could be simply changed to reduce the cooldown of camo

[Cordorian]

I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break

 

I like the Idea of making camo passive, since i guess one of the biggest problems of watchman is that it doesnt have a root breaker at all.

I think they really should change UR in some way, since in most cases it is a pretty useless CD. It was OP with smash and pocket heals pre 2.5 but that is thing of the past anyway.

[L-RANDLE]

Well now that the kid has put himself in timeout. I can actually see this thread going somewhere. When I said just about every reputable Carnie says "its about right", I think a simple tweak is in order.

 

 

One of the constant issues I see being brought up is Rage and Window issues. This spec has always seemed Rage starved part if the issue is that just about everything cost Rage and our "refund" is really only for one attack that we "Spam". If the burst is dependent on spam you either need to decrease the cost of Spam(pun intended, but who really eats that stuff?), decrease the cost of everything else, or increase the refund on rage. Personally, I think the last one is the best way to tweak it and we can somewhat address two bird with one stone.

 

Change Frenzied Sabers to "gain 2/4 rage when stunned, sapped, knocked down".

 

Part of the issue isn't that we are shutdown by cc, its the fact that the spec is built on steep ramps. A bit too steep, as the down time between peaks by cc is enough in itself, let alone be subject to energy management isssues while waiting for peaks when not under cc. Plus, an increase in Defense, as the skill is currently, is pretty useless against the bulk if attacks in PvP because of the bias towards Force/Tech attacks.

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 8, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[Cordorian]

Well now that the kid has put himself in timeout. I can actually see this thread going somewhere. When I said just about every reputable Carnie says "its about right", I think I simple tweak is in order.

 

 

One of the constant issues I see being brought up is Rage and Window issues. This spec has always seemed Rage starved part if the issue is that just about everything cost Rage and our "refund" is really only for one attack that we "Spam". If the burst is dependent on spam you either need to decrease the cost of Spam(pun intended, but who really eats that stuff?), decrease the cost of everything else, or increase the refund on rage. Personally, I think the last one is the best way to tweak it and we can somewhat address two bird with one stone.

 

Change Frenzied Sabers to "gain 2/4 rage when stunned, sapped, knocked down".

 

Part of the issue isn't that we are shutdown by cc, its the fact that the spec is built on steep ramps. A bit too steep, as the down time between peaks by cc is enough in itself, let alone be subject to energy management isssues while waiting for peaks when not under cc. Plus, an increase in Defense, as the skill is currently, is pretty useless against the bulk if attacks in PvP because of the bias towards Force/Tech attacks.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Part of the reason Carnage is actually harder play in pve as well, is despite bad RNG and quick fingers you need, that is raged starved quite easily. So totally agree, seeing how easy rage management, is in Rage (both mara and jugg), Vengeance and Anni, some QoL changes here would definitely be warranted.

I know spec or class spam auto attack that much for energy management.

 

And I think what would be an interesting tweak, would be to be able to use cloak of pain while stunned... since a stun mara without CDs up is as squishy as an operative.

[XeniusX]

I can get behind using CoP while CC'ed, Juggs have it and assassin can teleport while CC'ed, so why not.

 

I also like the idea of getting rage while stunned and KB'ed, it would open up for me not having to move backwards in order to leap and get rage that way ^^ Although, leaping is a bonus to dmg so in theory ud want to do it a lot but nonetheless it sounds like a good idea.

[foxmob]

I can get behind using CoP while CC'ed, Juggs have it and assassin can teleport while CC'ed, so why not.

 

I also like the idea of getting rage while stunned and KB'ed, it would open up for me not having to move backwards in order to leap and get rage that way ^^ Although, leaping is a bonus to dmg so in theory ud want to do it a lot but nonetheless it sounds like a good idea.

 

zero range leap is a specialty of anni. you can't take that (uniqueness) away from them. they're the interrupters who have steady dps and the interrupts and resource pool to maintain it. the basic philosophy is fine. if you took the interrupt off of leap and just use it as a resource regen, then I'd say that's fine for carnage.

Edited May 8, 2014 by foxmob

[XeniusX]

zero range leap is a specialty of anni. you can't take that (uniqueness) away from them. they're the interrupters who have steady dps and the interrupts and resource pool to maintain it. the basic philosophy is fine. if you took the interrupt off of leap and just use it as a resource regen, then I'd say that's fine for carnage.

 

I think you misunderstood me, i never said i would want the minimum range of leap from anni. We were talking about getting some rage building up when CC'ed and i was just commenting on my moving backwards (keyword right here) in order to get him in leap range for the extra rage, i tend to do this if my battering assault is off CD and other situational stuffs.

 

edit: typos

Edited May 8, 2014 by XeniusX

[Vodrin]

Here is a compiled list of suggestions I have that would solve the balance, and QoL issues Carnage/Combat tree currently faces in PVP.

 

First off, the biggest issue that the spec faces is the mass amount of CC that is easily thrown around. CC in this game has far too little of a drawback, drawbacks as in better resolve system, CC reflects, and larger cooldowns. Extremely simple, low cost and low cooldown CC can just be thrown around at a whim, with little thought and sometimes it is even AOE. Even this simple CC can completely shut down the burst rotation of Combat/Carnage that, depending on the scenario/opponent takes thought and adaptation without even considering throwing the CC in. No other DPS spec suffers this in practice.

 

Now don't get me wrong CC should be the counter to the spec, but what it should counter is the pressure that the marauder/sent should be the best at applying, not completely shutting it down consistently without effort. You have to remember as well, in a game where AOEs exist, add Ranged classes are given kiting tools as well as burst, melee classes succumb to the most potential damage taken. Without a self heal, this fact is even more compounded on because even after a win or escape, the Mara/sent has to take longer to reset and try again.

 

 

Onto the suggestions:

 

 

1.) Undying Rage

Instant

Cooldown: 120s

Reduces the damage you take by 99% and reflects 450 energy damage back at attackers for 5 seconds. Activating this ability purges all movement impairing effects. When the effect ends, 50% of your current health is lost.

 

 

 

2.) Frenzied Sabers

When your Ataru Form deals damage, your damage reduction is increased by [1.5 / 3]%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 10 seconds. At 2 stacks, your alacrity is also increased by 5% for the duration.

 

 

3.) Execute

Your Ataru Form hits grant a stack of Execute, each stack makes your next Force Scream deal [2.5 / 5]% more damage. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 5 seconds.

 

4.) Towering Rage

Each stack of Execute now additionally increases the critical chance of Force Scream by [25 / 50]%.

 

 

5.) Stagger

Knockback immunity is now granted for [1.5 / 3] seconds immediately after a Force charge.

 

 

Note:

These are more conservative changes for the most part, even though I am sure there will be a mass following of trolls that enter this thread that will claim some math or supposed consistent scenario involving Combat/Carnage that these changes would make overpowered but will be unwilling to provide even a shred of evidence to support it (even though consistency would dictate easy access to proof)

 

On that note, I welcome constructed criticism, as long as it is mature and if you are going to make a claim at least do the presentable, or rather intelligent motion of a debate and supply evidence.

 

 

This is generally a more reasonable set of suggestions than what you had talked about previously in other threads so I applaud you for taking feedback. That said I just don't think you can give even brief knockback immunity to sents/maras without overbuffing them.

 

The execute changes you propose are similar to those that have been talked about for a long time now and may work, although I suspect if we see them it will require three ataru proc's per execute.

 

The frenzied saber change is the wrong buff I think. Ataru proc's come so quickly that getting to a 3 stack is not a problem. The problem is with the short duration of the buff it is easy to lose during CC. I'd rather see the duration increased to 15 seconds and it otherwise left alone.

 

For undying rage/GBTF, I do not think making it reflect damage would be the way to go. I'd rather see the duration dropped to 3 seconds and have the health loss on activation again instead of at the end of the ability. Or reduce the amount of damage reduction to something like 50% for 5 seconds, make it usable only under 50% health, and remove the health loss altogether.

[scylence]

This is generally a more reasonable set of suggestions than what you had talked about previously in other threads so I applaud you for taking feedback. That said I just don't think you can give even brief knockback immunity to sents/maras without overbuffing them.

 

The execute changes you propose are similar to those that have been talked about for a long time now and may work, although I suspect if we see them it will require three ataru proc's per execute.

 

The frenzied saber change is the wrong buff I think. Ataru proc's come so quickly that getting to a 3 stack is not a problem. The problem is with the short duration of the buff it is easy to lose during CC. I'd rather see the duration increased to 15 seconds and it otherwise left alone.

 

For undying rage/GBTF, I do not think making it reflect damage would be the way to go. I'd rather see the duration dropped to 3 seconds and have the health loss on activation again instead of at the end of the ability. Or reduce the amount of damage reduction to something like 50% for 5 seconds, make it usable only under 50% health, and remove the health loss altogether.

 

Again, the knockback immunity being 3s, 2 for actual attacks is not much at all. It is also based off an ability that has a cooldown anyway. The mara/sent would still be susceptible to stuns and mez. If anything this is one of the most important things we need, or some variation of it unless they plan on completely gutting the AOE knockbacks that are near spammable without thought involved. You won't get off the major part of your burst in the duration of the knockback immunity doesnt matter if stars align and you have zerk up. The real in practice benefit is the chance to profit off an opponent blowing their knockback the moment they are leaped too, which is the natural order of good timing and skill vs bad timing and skill.

 

 

As far as the ataru proc DR talent. Actually testing it in practice, I never had an issue with the duration, not one bit. The problem is the effectiveness, and on top of that the effectiveness does not justify it's tier placement in the tree. This is a tier 1/2 talent AT BEST. It is simply the worst talent atm in Carnage/combat tree, and when you go full Combat/Carnage there are simply better choices in the other trees as well in the low tiers.

Another possible solution to this is to remove the talent completely, keep the effects and duration the way they are and add them to a preexisting talent located lower in the tree.

[Ld-Siris]

Let me just say to the people that say UR is the best DCD in the game: Do you even play marauder bro ? I'd gladly change the entire DCD to pretty much anything. 5 seconds of 40% dmg red, heck 30 %.. It's an almost useless ability in regs. 50% of the time you are CC'ed and other 50% you might do a little extra dmg but that dmg will prob 1/100 games be useful for your team because if you are dying like that then your team is prob dying fast and you won't win anyway.. if you are uber lucky then maybe you could save yourself in ranked with it, but if the team is half decent then they would CC me. Hell, i'd even remove the entire DCD and get Force camo on lower CD instead.

 

Over to topic:

 

No, i'm sorry but you have a lot to learn. Yes carnage marauders have an annoying RNG aspect over itself, and it would be nice to get a more reliable rotation (spamming 5 massacres, lol no scream fml) but giving carnage ANY type of CC protection will be OP. i would destroy vs any class. The point is that if you don't stop a carnage from attacking (i'm thinking gore+ravage party here) and getting his procs to scream etc etc you are going to have a bad time, which means; if you CAN't stop them because he is CC immune then sucks to be you i guess. KB immunity i don't get ? why would you leap a KB capable fella in the back when you could just go up to him and leap him after KB ? which is much better. Think about it. if you do that, then you won't have to deal with slowed movement after KB when u have to move up to him (cause obviously a skilled player would wait for your KB immunity passes) besides: Predation bby!!... When i think about it, it would be nice to get to leap closer to objective and controll situation without worrying about a KB but that is highly situational.

 

The fact of the matter is that Carnage marauders just are very very hard to play in regs and thats because of lots of different factors that i'm not going to go in too. The class just requires a lot of practice in WZs, how to respond to situations, how to utilize your surroundings, how not to leap in get KB and die instantly etc etc.

 

I agree with this 100%. Maras of an spec is by far the hardest class to learn to play but especially carnage. I usually never pop UR unless there is a particular situation. My first character was my mara and it has taken me a long long time to get it down. I'm not saying I mastered it but I never blindly jump into the fray. I sit back a sec (will I pop BT/predict and then get my berserk going) to assess the most viable target. Most classes will not survive a carnage maras burst rotation. And if they do they are sitting in a bad spot.