2.8 patch notes regarding sorcerers and madness

[KeyboardNinja]

Regarding shadows it is absurd to give them a 30m instant cc, they will be the only melee class with a ranged cc where its uses are numerous and very powerful.

 

To get an idea of what shadows go through, spec balance on your sage, and then stand within 4 meters of any target you wish to attack before you use Telekinetic Throw or Disturbance. Make sure you're within 10 meters before you use Weaken Mind or Mind Crush. If they move out of range, break your channel and follow them. That should give you a decent notion of why balance shadows need more control and more situational survivability tools than sages do.

 

I do agree that Force Lift shouldn't be 30 meters for shadows. Even today, that strikes me as quite dodgy. 10 meters would be more than sufficient to resolve the control problems we have now, since most of our (non-cheesy) use cases are within that range anyway.

[MusicRider]

To get an idea of what shadows go through, spec balance on your sage, and then stand within 4 meters of any target you wish to attack before you use Telekinetic Throw or Disturbance. Make sure you're within 10 meters before you use Weaken Mind or Mind Crush. If they move out of range, break your channel and follow them. That should give you a decent notion of why balance shadows need more control and more situational survivability tools than sages do.

 

I do agree that Force Lift shouldn't be 30 meters for shadows. Even today, that strikes me as quite dodgy. 10 meters would be more than sufficient to resolve the control problems we have now, since most of our (non-cheesy) use cases are within that range anyway.

 

I have a shadow and a sin and although I haven't played balance shadow for ages as far as I remember shadows filler is instant (double strike). But anyway that was not the point. My brief objection is not with the instant element of force lift, but with it having 30m range, which is not a situational survivability but purely an aggressive cc in an area they shouldn't have access to from that distance. In an ideal world both classes should be able to spec instant like before, but shadows should have it at 10m while sages at 30.

[ceazare]

To get an idea of what shadows go through, spec balance on your sage, and then stand within 4 meters of any target you wish to attack before you use Telekinetic Throw or Disturbance. Make sure you're within 10 meters before you use Weaken Mind or Mind Crush. If they move out of range, break your channel and follow them. That should give you a decent notion of why balance shadows need more control and more situational survivability tools than sages do.

 

That works both ways though

 

You can simulate your TKT being interrupted and being forced to delay melee attacks to get instant Mind Crush proc. When you're on an enemy healer and he goes around the corner you can wait 3 seconds before pursuing, because it's more difficult for ranged to get line of sight again. You can also try to create distance from melee attackers more often, because avoiding damage is the only way to reduce intake.

 

I absolutely agree melee class needs more survivabilty tools, but compared to balance sages they already have them. (In ranked, the benefit of being a ranged class loses much of its value, but that's another topic.) But I don't see a reason not to give sages instant lift as well. Besides, shadows already have more control in form of stealth mez and stun on opener.

[Galothor]

Tbh I think something like a pull ability (maybe 15m) would have been more helpful for madness sins.

But since they don't have such an ability and adding it without giving it to the cc king deception sin tehy would have to alter the madness tree, which they can not do since it is shared with sorcs. Thus they had this brilliant idea of giving them a 30 stun.

 

While I agree that madness sorcs did need something, and due to the problem discribed above it was probably the best alternativ, but a low range would have been nice since they can stealth up on you anyways. And madness sorcs need it just as badly as madness sins need it, if not more since we will use it defensivly while they are likely to use it offensively.

 

It is a stupid concept where a given class has only 1 stun/mezz while other have 100. If you know the other class and know that they only have 1 stun, you can always break instantanously. Optimal combination is a hardstun and mezz which will give you some tactical choices and requires the opponent to use his brains to figure out which one to break (but maybe that's the problem. Warriors don't strike me as being too smart, charging out of heal range into the entire enemy team, same goes for sins in stealth. So maybe that's the reason why we only get 1 stun).

[PloGreen]

Sages need instant lift back, it was a poor change and it hurt the class.

[Sosajoshua]

I just think the only madness/balance problem is the instant cc. Once we get that back (and not give it to Sins) we will have nothing to complain about I think

[Aetrus]

Madness sorcs don't need any more control, its already the best kiting spec in the game. And if you're losing to Warriors as Madness they are either Carnage and got lucky with procs or they are a better player. Madness beats Vengeance in most scenarios. You can static barrier and absorb the first 2 ticks of Ravage and then Overload them after Unstoppable wears off and before the 3rd tick lands unless they're playing with perfect ping or running 2 pieces of Alacrity in their gear. Then save your Force Speed to root break their second Ravage when they Force Push you. From there it's basic kiting. You'll have to burn through about 70k HP in order to kill them, but with bubbles and Unnatural Preservation they'll have to burn through more.

 

Our best spec is getting buffed. Stop complaining. I'm more upset that Lightning isn't getting anything even though it's probably the worst arena spec in the game, maybe tied with Corruption.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Aetrus

[SuetGroundwalker]

Sorcs need this buff, if they wont give them more defensive cooldowns, they would indeed to pput out dmg

[Eyesmindassassin]

Madness sorcs don't need any more control, its already the best kiting spec in the game. And if you're losing to Warriors as Madness they are either Carnage and got lucky with procs or they are a better player. Madness beats Vengeance in most scenarios. You can static barrier and absorb the first 2 ticks of Ravage and then Overload them after Unstoppable wears off and before the 3rd tick lands unless they're playing with perfect ping or running 2 pieces of Alacrity in their gear. Then save your Force Speed to root break their second Ravage when they Force Push you. From there it's basic kiting. You'll have to burn through about 70k HP in order to kill them, but with bubbles and Unnatural Preservation they'll have to burn through more.

 

Our best spec is getting buffed. Stop complaining. I'm more upset that Lightning isn't getting anything even though it's probably the worst arena spec in the game, maybe tied with Corruption.

 

As someone who has all classes 55 including a Sorc and a Jugg that I've PvP'd on extensively, this is correct. Madness Sorcs are very very strong ATM and will probably get nerfed when it's all said and done. Maybe against really bad ones I can melt them on my Vengeance Jugg, but against good ones that kite, it's a nightmare. They definitely should win that fight more times than not. No idea how Sorcs are complaining about Warriors when they shouldn't lose to any in their current state. Even seen one Sorc in this thread complaining about Snipers having more tools when Snipers are bottom of the barrel in both solo and group ranked arenas (along with Mercs) and guess what? The best spec of Sorc (Madness) that already has higher rep than any Sniper spec in the game got buffed tremendously while Sniper received no buffs at all.

 

What a joke.

[Galothor]

Well while I agree that sorcs are not in a bad state, you statement is not entirely correct.

 

Killing juggs with their 40sec ED was a problem for any class. Only the worst juggs would deny that this was completely OP. Now that their DCD is in line with the other DCDs I think the fight is more balanced.

 

Concerning the snipers. I don't know what you are complaining about. They are in a good spot. Their damage output is huge, they can not be charged at (unlike all the other range classes), they can not be interrupted (unlike all the other range classes), they can detect stealth all the time, they can make themselves immun to cc. They can also roll from cover to cover to build up some distance (and again melees can't use chage to get to them). So they really got a ton of tools. They may lack the healing ability but their immunity to interrupt and cc as well as their tremendous damage output makes up for that.

 

As for the buff for madness sorcs ... well I don't get that quite either. Other changes would have been much more appropriate. But I guess this change can solely be attributed to PvE. As you won't be able to constantly spam FL in ranked warzones (unless your team is superior or the enemy ignores you - which usually is not the case). Thus the buff is not as big as you make it seem. 25% seems like a big number, but when you think about it, it is nothing but a 5th tick of your FL on a specific target. And as I mentioned above, you are usually not able to spam that much FL anyways since you are usually being focused or got a melee sitting on you which prevents standing still and casting this attack (if you want to survive). So it is a buff, that was implemented probably for PvE and is thus not fully appropriate for PvP, but it is not as tremendous as you are trying to make it seem.

[Atamasama]

I pretty much only PvE with my Sorcerer. But the 10m Electrocute is annoying. I hate the fact that I have to run up to someone to stun them. It's stupid with every other ability I have being 30m (except for Overload, which is intended to knock away people that get too close so I understand it). I strongly suggest they change it to 30m for Sorcerers, not to balance the class, but just because it's an annoying skill otherwise.

[Malinok]

I pretty much only PvE with my Sorcerer. But the 10m Electrocute is annoying. I hate the fact that I have to run up to someone to stun them. It's stupid with every other ability I have being 30m (except for Overload, which is intended to knock away people that get too close so I understand it). I strongly suggest they change it to 30m for Sorcerers, not to balance the class, but just because it's an annoying skill otherwise.

 

I miss the original Days, pre 1.2, waaay pre 55, when Electrocute was 30m, Whirlwind was talent instant, Overload was 360, and Chain Lightning could be used off of Wrath Procs..........ahhhhh those were the god mode days.