Fevee Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Force Push has to be the most annoying move in this entire game! It exceeds Force Wave, Cover Pulse, Ambush's knockback, Concussion Charge by a longshot. Except for the few moves that make you entirely immune to controls and pushes there is no defense against it. It also pushes you way farther back than any other pushbacks. And finally, it's the only move that knocks you down. The other moves that root you after the knockback are at least tolerable since you can continue firing/healing/whatever. But Force Push sends you barreling helplessly back; at the mere whim of the pusher; it's overpowered, and that needs fixing. I think making Force Push a charged move will fix it. At least needing a second to charge, but charging it up like it already has the appearance of will make the move less overpowered; since it will then be capable of being interrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korithras Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) It also has the longest cooldown compared to other knockbacks at 60 seconds. So no. It does not need nerfing, you just need to stop whining and read up on things before you go complaining about the need for changing them. And you want to talk about the most annoying move in the game? Try the fact that operatives and scoundrels are so OP now with their damage output because they needed "increased survivability." So instead of doing what 'should' have been done and increasing their damage reduction benefits, they were made unstoppable killing machines that can stun-lock a tank coming out of stealth and just backstab them to death. Edited April 26, 2014 by Korithras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRacer Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) I'm fine with the push distance and instant cast, but I agree that knockdown has to go, especially when it's in combination with the resetting leap-ravage. Edited April 26, 2014 by HeatRacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Troll post? Not sure if serious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I'd said... With the op knockdown, which was under even harsher conditions then just a cooldown, gone; Force Push knockdown has to go too. Simple.... If the single squishiest class in this game have lost its knockdown, then everyone should lose it. Warrior doesn't need it. Concealment needed it to survive its alpha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I use it as an added interrupt, well a semi-interrupt, if the enemy casts something while my proper interrupt is still on cooldown. If it has a charge or cast time, it rends it rather useless and it will no longer be used at all by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthObitious Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 aww QQ garudian and juggs pushed me of a ledge it's fine qq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Force Push has to be the most annoying move in this entire game! It exceeds Force Wave, Cover Pulse, Ambush's knockback, Concussion Charge by a longshot. Except for the few moves that make you entirely immune to controls and pushes there is no defense against it. It also pushes you way farther back than any other pushbacks. And finally, it's the only move that knocks you down. The other moves that root you after the knockback are at least tolerable since you can continue firing/healing/whatever. But Force Push sends you barreling helplessly back; at the mere whim of the pusher; it's overpowered, and that needs fixing. I think making Force Push a charged move will fix it. At least needing a second to charge, but charging it up like it already has the appearance of will make the move less overpowered; since it will then be capable of being interrupted. so what class do you play so I can tell you all the moves we need to fix.... BTW - The Sentinel I am currently playing has no ability to push or pull or pretty much do much to you except slow you down and occasionally get a stun or a root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) [EDIT] Edited for irrelevant comment. Edited April 30, 2014 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Actually, the knockdown part is a legit complaint. If Scoundrel/Operative lost theirs and Shadow/Assassin lost theirs, why would the Juggernaught get to keep theirs? Trick question, there is no reason. If other classes provided reasons why they should keep theirs and lost it, there really is no reason anyone should have a knockdown. Leave the push alone, but be consistent with anti-knockdown and remove the Juggernaughts. Edited April 30, 2014 by undiess get = keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet that push is single target, unlike every other knockdown the OP contrasted it to, all of which are AoE. The increased pushback distance is certainly a fair tradeoff for not being AoE like the others. I used to agree that having knockdown was also part of the tradeoff for single-target restriction but now with Bioware removing knockdowns all over the place I'm not so sure, and I'm starting to sympathize with the consistency arguments made by other posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet that push is single target, unlike every other knockdown the OP contrasted it to, all of which are AoE. The increased pushback distance is certainly a fair tradeoff for not being AoE like the others. I used to agree that having knockdown was also part of the tradeoff for single-target restriction but now with Bioware removing knockdowns all over the place I'm not so sure, and I'm starting to sympathize with the consistency arguments made by other posters. Op talked about knockback.... Force Wave knockdown weak and standard NPC only.... Knockdown are few in this game.... Concealment op/Scrapper scound had one on shoot first... Shadow/Sin had one... Jugg/Guardian still have one whichis both a knockback AND a knockdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlnvifun Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) At the start of battle, warriors and knights have the disadvantage of an empty power meter. Unlike any of the other classes, they must build their meter 2 use most of their moves. They r also right in the centre of battle, not 2 the side shooting blaster bolts/lightning/rocks whilst their companion draws the enemy's fire (A tactic I use often:D). Force Push often offers the only breathing room a warrior or knight can get from being completely overwhelmed (especially when playing solo), and since all other classes have a full power meter at the start of battle, Force Push evens the playing field between the classes. I don't mind the removal of the knockdown, but I am against removing the other benefits of 1 of the most needed and relied-upon powers when I choose 1 of these classes. Edited April 30, 2014 by Mlnvifun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stridentzephon Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Are you guys stuck on stupid? First all its a single target knock back that does not stun lock like all the other classes. Second of all its no where near accurate as force wave due to server lag. Many times I have push and due to lag missed ledge you should have gone off. Followed up as so one said before. The cooldown on it by far is the longest knock back stun ability we have and is the only non channeled knock back stun ability we have. Unless you are a defensive tree we have to channel to stun or interrupt while further lowering damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Are you guys stuck on stupid? First all its a single target knock back that does not stun lock like all the other classes. Second of all its no where near accurate as force wave due to server lag. Many times I have push and due to lag missed ledge you should have gone off. Followed up as so one said before. The cooldown on it by far is the longest knock back stun ability we have and is the only non channeled knock back stun ability we have. Unless you are a defensive tree we have to channel to stun or interrupt while further lowering damage output. Now, now. You know perfectly well they won't just remove the knockback. They're replace it with something else, like a root or stun. If Scoundrels/Operatives and Shadows/Assassins could escape that, why would another class get to? Or, why do other knockbacks not knock down players, and only specifically certain types of mobs? Because of balance issues. So which would you rather hope for, a root or a stun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevee Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 So which would you rather hope for, a root or a stun? I'd rather be rooted after being thrown back. Commandos already have a rooting throwback, so it's nothing new. Plus, while rooted, one can still perform actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korithras Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It doesn't need to be a charged move. It's drawback is that it has the longest cooldown for any knockback move in the game. That is it's weakness. Others only have a cooldown of anywhere from 20-30 seconds, usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlnvifun Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It also requires a higher lvl 2 unlock than any other class' knock-back skill (I have checked), so stop complaining and trying 2 weaken other players:mad: We fight like this because like u, we don't want 2 be defeated and the tactics that work best at preventing defeat r the 1s we're going 2 use. This is Star WARS not star gazing, so don't moan and whine about other players using force (pun intended:D) against u when they r on the opposing side in a pvp situation:rolleyes: It just makes u look like a sore loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicktopus Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I believe balance with this whole combat system is going the wrong way. Rather than removing something from a class which is causing grief for others, the others should instead have their own circumstantial advantages, else one winds up tightening the rules more and more, constantly scanning metrics until everyone just winds up with the same abilities. It happened in WoW, it'll happen here. GSF conversely, has done it right. Each ship has their own distinct advantages and disadvantages. No one's complaining that the gunship's range outstrips that of a scout, nor that a scout can outmaneuver a gunship. It's fine, they're different things and they should be treated as such. Capitalise on each classes strength. Don't standardise, diversify, lest we defeat the very purpose of having classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevee Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 I don't care if it has a cooldown of 5 hours, the I-Win button is still overpowered, and the poor sap the move is used on is done for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I don't care if it has a cooldown of 5 hours, the I-Win button is still overpowered, and the poor sap the move is used on is done for. I get tossed around all the time. Its HARDLY an I win button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptureRocker Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I get tossed around all the time. Its HARDLY an I win button. Yes, but it's so much easier to make Bioware nerf something so you'll shut up if you use terms like "OP" and "I win button" a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think knockdown for PVP needs to go, the rest is fine IMO. However, for PVE the knockdown absolutely has to stay exactly as it is. Not only is it fun for me to be a victim of it, it is double fun to knock down NPCs in that way. One of the few pluses this game has in PVE play compared to other games. Make players immune to the knockdown effect in PVP, make them root instead and problem is solved IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevee Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 I think knockdown for PVP needs to go, the rest is fine IMO. However, for PVE the knockdown absolutely has to stay exactly as it is. Not only is it fun for me to be a victim of it, it is double fun to knock down NPCs in that way. One of the few pluses this game has in PVE play compared to other games. Make players immune to the knockdown effect in PVP, make them root instead and problem is solved IMO. "Standard and weak enemies are knocked down..." That would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliOrion Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 "Standard and weak enemies are knocked down..." That would help. No. Keep PVP problems to PVP. Nerfing iconic PVE abilities to make whiny PVPers happ--- well, to force them to find something new to whine about -- won't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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