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Guardians / Juggs, ED needs a tone down?

Xinika

By Xinika
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Jadescythe

Jadescythe

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If you aren't balancing for the type of player that plays ranked, what are you balancing for? Are we going to balance the game around the middle 50%? There are two possible outcomes of that:

 

1) The game gets dumbed down to the point that higher level players get bored with the combat. There is no skill difference, because the skill cap is so low that 40% of the player base play within 1% of each other. There is no room to outplay your opponents, because everyone knows you just spam flame burst. Then the better players leave.

 

2) Similar to the resolve changes of 1.3 (1.4?), by making the game more casual friendly, it actually makes more skilled player have an even larger skill gap from the rest of the field. Reducing the effects of overlapping CC made it less punishing for teams lacking coordination. However, coordinated, skilled players could take advantage of this by CC'ing players even longer by intentionally overlapping stuns by 1 second to get more out of resolve. By balancing to the lower levels, the top levels can get buffed.

 

I'm not saying that the casual player base or the regular warzone queue should be disregarded when making changes, but you have to take the consequences with the most impact into account. This DCD is not OP in a competitive environment, but is difficult to deal with in a PUG reg warzone based on feedback in this thread. That means that a change is most likely necessary to help balance, but it needs to remain helpful in the competitive realm so that you don't kill a class that is finally becoming somewhat viable.

 

The other note I will make is that you can't really say that in conjunction with 3 other abilities you can heal to full and blame that on this one ability. If you think 24k healing is what you'll get and that is too much, then I can take that as a valid point. If I have to use Enure, AOE taunt, medpac, and friendly leap, that's a lot of CD's down to get that "second life". Considering an Operative or Sin can do the same thing with cleanse/stealth out and heal to full and Sorcs can not only LOS and heal to full, but also make them pay, I don't think there are too many issues with this one CD. :rak_03:

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Savej

Savej

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Seeing juggs with 250K + healing in warzones. That is crazy. They need to tone it down.

 

From what I've seen, unless it's a long wz, a non-tank jugg that does that kind of healing needs to be focused by several characters and he wouldn't survive without an external healer.

 

And non-heal-spec'd sorcs that do more than that? They need to be toned down too, right?

 

Really, you can't make balance decisions by looking just at scoreboards - they don't include numerous things. Like gbtf and shroud - those can shrug off hundreds of thousands of pts of dmg too but characters that use those don't show up anywhere on those boards. Rebuke cuts 20% off the top of all incoming dmg - make that a healing effect and numbers could get very high if a sent has a healer on him keeping him alive.

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sithBracer

sithBracer

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From what I've seen, unless it's a long wz, a non-tank jugg that does that kind of healing needs to be focused by several characters and he wouldn't survive without an external healer.

 

And non-heal-spec'd sorcs that do more than that? They need to be toned down too, right?

 

Really, you can't make balance decisions by looking just at scoreboards - they don't include numerous things. Like gbtf and shroud - those can shrug off hundreds of thousands of pts of dmg too but characters that use those don't show up anywhere on those boards. Rebuke cuts 20% off the top of all incoming dmg - make that a healing effect and numbers could get very high if a sent has a healer on him keeping him alive.

 

1. Sorcs do not heal more than 250k on average.

2. healing as a sorc has a COST. Dark heal kills your force management, is castable and wastes a GCD. Dark infusion takes forever to cast, still costs force and only heals for a little more than dark healing.

3. healing is part of their defenses, sorcs only have 1 decent DCD that takes them out of the battle first. Jugg has many very good DRs. If you want to take away their saber reflect, saber ward, endure pain, unstoppable and passive armor and give them light armor, then we can compare.

 

Once again (for dumb people like you), ED has no counter at all. It can't be interrupted, it can't be waited out (30 seconds is too long for PVP), it can't be prevented since it can be activated while stunned, it can't be out-damaged since it heals for 2.5k-4.5k and it heals them up for 30k average passively. They don't even have to to waste GCDs or keep track of anything, they just pop it and continue fighting. It's a free heal2full.

 

And once again no one is asking to get rid of it, just lower the timer from 30 to 5-8 seconds so we can at least wait it out or mezz. Every move needs some kind of cost or counter, this one has none.

 

And FYI savej, you have no right to defend this since you were b*tching about op HEALER spamming emergency medpacks to stay alive before. This is the same damn thing, expect it is passive, doesn't require a GCD, doesn't work only when you are under 30%, can be combined with better DCDs and is on a f*cking DPS.

Edited by sithBracer
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MooTheCosmicCow

MooTheCosmicCow

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I am fighting one, I am winning, boom, opponent back to almost full, so I have to beat them down all over, let's assume somehow I am managing to live then opponent stealths pops a med pack and he is healed up again for the THIRD time!!!

 

Yeah, everyone knows it's to strong including the people playing those classes, but of course those people will say it is fine. Now imagine what would happen if you were using a TK sage...the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

 

Doubt its coincidence you see so many of them in warzones now....fotm rings a bell.

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maverickmatt

maverickmatt

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I am fighting one, I am winning, boom, opponent back to almost full, so I have to beat them down all over, let's assume somehow I am managing to live then opponent stealths pops a med pack and he is healed up again for the THIRD time!!!

 

Yeah, everyone knows it's to strong including the people playing those classes, but of course those people will say it is fine. Now imagine what would happen if you were using a TK sage...the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

 

Doubt its coincidence you see so many of them in warzones now....fotm rings a bell.

 

Since when can Guardians stealth? I think you're talking about something else....

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howieloader

howieloader

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I am fighting one, I am winning, boom, opponent back to almost full, so I have to beat them down all over, let's assume somehow I am managing to live then opponent stealths pops a med pack and he is healed up again for the THIRD time!!!

 

Yeah, everyone knows it's to strong including the people playing those classes, but of course those people will say it is fine. Now imagine what would happen if you were using a TK sage...the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

 

Doubt its coincidence you see so many of them in warzones now....fotm rings a bell.

 

WTB: Translation for whatever I just read...

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Telaan

Telaan

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I am fighting one, I am winning, boom, opponent back to almost full, so I have to beat them down all over, let's assume somehow I am managing to live then opponent stealths pops a med pack and he is healed up again for the THIRD time!!!

 

Yeah, everyone knows it's to strong including the people playing those classes, but of course those people will say it is fine. Now imagine what would happen if you were using a TK sage...the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

 

Doubt its coincidence you see so many of them in warzones now....fotm rings a bell.

 

Drugs are bad.

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sithBracer

sithBracer

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Seems like everyone is STILL forgetting the fact that ED/FD heals ONLY when taking damage. If you heal your opponent to full, its your own fault.

 

Leaving someone alone for 30 seconds to do what they want is also not ideal. If someone had complete attack immunity for 30 seconds but was able to attack anyone he wanted, the entire forum would cry OP. Heck they did with undying rage, and that was only for 4 seconds.

Edited by sithBracer
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GrandLordMenace

GrandLordMenace

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I plan on holding my stance against the QQ. In PVE, ED has actually given us utility! WE CAN ACTUALLY TEMPORARY TANK! We can H2F on a nefra dot! We're the easiest to heal DPS spec in the game when the **** gets heavy, as a Guardian SHOULD be.

 

And in PVP, we're no longer a free kill. Period. The Guardian class should be a Guardian, a class capable of taking a hit when need be, and as a DPS, just for a little while. I FEEL like when the **** gets heavy in PVP, I can hold off a few guys for the next 5-7 seconds before I get obliterated. I don't want to feel like the dumb ****** who wears the guardian name only to die 2 seconds later cause heavy armor is ****.

 

In exchange for said survivability, we lack advantages other classes have that we don't:

 

A Stun

 

A speedboost

 

AOE DR

 

Rootbreak

 

Maybe its time people learn to focus down the vigilance and draw out the enraged defense just as you focus down a sorc healer to draw out the barrier, hmm? Or focus the Vanguard to draw out the Kolto Overload, the list goes on and on. To counter a God Cooldown you just need the person to pop it earlier than needed.

Edited by GrandLordMenace
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sithBracer

sithBracer

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In exchange for said survivability, we lack advantages other classes have that we don't:

 

A Stun

 

You have an AoE mezz and a pushback, stop complaining. It's becoming embarassing.

 

A speedboost

 

You have a leap and an intercede, neither of which can be rooted mid animation, and both of which can be used to get to vertical platforms. I would trade force speed for those on my shadow any day in this meta game.

 

AOE DR

 

Right, to protect you from the big bad ... ummm ... orbital strike? the only AoE move that it was worth anything against is smash, and that spec is now garbage.

 

Rootbreak

 

Welcome to melee.

 

Maybe its time people learn to focus down the vigilance and draw out the enraged defense just as you focus down a sorc healer to draw out the barrier, hmm? Or focus the Vanguard to draw out the Kolto Overload, the list goes on and on. To counter a God Cooldown you just need the person to pop it earlier than needed.

 

If you want to make it so it only heals up to 35% hp and only lasts 8 seconds, I'm ok with that (and so would anyone else). Or if you want to be a sitting duck for 10 seconds while getting healed, I'm fine with that as well. Seriously, L2P without your stupid "I win" button.

Edited by sithBracer
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L-RANDLE

L-RANDLE

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My .02 pub credits,

My tank with about 80% DPS gear doubled its typical healing output from 150k to 300k in the one and only WZ I tried. Using this with Warding Call feels a bit OP, for my gear and spec, but tanks needed some luv so I am torn in how to fix this....

 

I finished a CW with these slash lines.

 

400k/280k/300k

 

I was a PuG tank, no doubt a premade could increase those numbers.

Edited by L-RANDLE
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