Underworld Trading - Reduce rate of companion gift/cloth missions

[EnkiduNineEight]

I've posted something like this several years ago. Its been a perpetual problem since the game began. A simple look at the GTN gives you all the information you need to have on how this is a damaging part of the in game economy.

 

Synthweaving mats are cheap as cheap can be. They are used solely in one profession and the volume of mats required are very small. As such there is a huge glut in the market for these materials that get very little use.

 

Companion Gifts are availbale through MULTIPLE crafting skills. They are also in every cartel box you buy. They are in no short supply either.

 

Underworld Trading Mats though are sky high. Their mission costs are usually higher (from slicing found missions etc) because the underworld trading metals are needed and its very difficult to rely on your normal gathering missions to get anything useful. Underworld Trading Materials are needed across MULTIPLE crafts AND the items used by this gathering skill in their creation are some of the most essential and plentiful items in a characters 'kit'.

 

Every Mod, Every Armour Plate made with Cybertech, requires an underworld trading material. A significant number of the Medium Armor and Heavy Armour 'shells' made with Armouring require Underworld Trading Metals.

 

There are several solutions, (Such as making strength and wisdom enhancing armour mods/plates use cloth materials while still residing in cybertech) but the easiest one would require modifying just one Skill.

 

Make Underworld Trading have a heavier bias towards providing Underworld Trading Metals missions. Alternatively, increase the number of materials returned with the current missions and increase the chances of getting a 'critical' result with Artifact level (purple) materials.

 

As it is, the missions for Underworld Trading are completely biased towards Companion Gifts and Synthweaving both of which are in no short supply in the game economy. You really need to balance things out more.

[Rusah]

I disagree on this one, but have a solution that would work for everyone which i will put at the end after my reasons for disagreeing

 

I run UT simply for the companion gifts since i have 8 characters who's comp affection i will need to max for the presence bonus. A lot of the time out of the 5 missions in the range i need for rank 5 rich i only see a couple of missions and i can currently send out 4 companions, i see more metal and cloth missions than i do companion gifts, and that is in the 49-50 range which gives only rich comp gift missions, and the 41 -48 range that sometimes has rich.

 

The solution as the system is now to get more metals ones, is the same as the solution to get more cloth or companion gift ones. Change areas it refreshes the list. To get all 4 out i go to my ship hanger, pick up the ones available then go into my ship which refreshes the list so i can get more to fill all my comp slots, if needed i can exit my ship to refresh the list again. or if i am out in game, go between one area and another.

 

To fix it permanently is easy. Add in an option for all mission skills (meaning all ones that have mission options) to refresh the mission list, it should cost a token fee, maybe a few hundred credits, when used it reloads the mission list with a new set. That way whether you want gifts, cloth or metal you can just reload to get more, and it would also provide a small credit sink to the game.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I'm aware that you can zone in and out to get different missions but its a really clunky mechanic. It shouldn't cost tokens/real world cash equivalent to refresh your list and players shouldn't be forced to mindlessly zone back and forth to get missions they need.

 

You can get companion gifts from more crafting skills than just UT. But you can't get more UT metal from any other craft.

 

Right now, the frequency, even when you zone and rezone, of UT Metal missions is really low, compared to cloth and gifts and the number of 'rich' missions for metal is really low (except for the highest tier). Its quite frequent I have three companion gift missions (rich) A bountiful cloth mission and a moderate metal mission.

 

The issue isn't just the rarity of the metal missions, its that the mats are needed more than in any other craft.

 

Just looking at cybertech....

At least 7 armouring mods are needed, so 14 every two levels.

You have 9 mods, and these are even more expensive in terms of mats. At 4 each but only gained every 4 levels)

so 36 mats, or 18 mats every 2 levels.

Then, do you want an earpiece? That's another 2 artifact level mats. every now and again.

 

There's no other craft skill that chews up materials at the same rate and there is no other craft that has the same artificial rarity of the missions.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Yeah, I know this is 'anecotal' as it was my own experience, but in order to speed things up I have MULTIPLE characters with underworld trading. More often than not they have THREEE companion gift missions and often more, with the remainder being filled out with cloth and occasionally a moderate Underworld Metals mission.

 

With the rate that all three of these things are consumed in crafting etc, I do really think that a re-analysis of the rate of materials generation should be performed.

 

Underworld Trading materials are consumed in far greater quantities. My note above was incorrect as I was saying 2 mats per armour mod but it's actually 4 for most of them. at 7 of 8 armour mods every two levels that's 28 to 32 Underworld Metal pieces alone needed. If it happens to be a level you also need Straight Stat Mods, that's 9 more at 36 total cost, bringing your needed metals to make mods to 66. Let alone earpieces.

 

No other materials are needed in that quantity that are that difficult to get.

 

Please just look at the rate of UT Metals missions vs the rate of UIT Cloth/Comp Gift missions and the rate these materials are actually consumed. There appears to be a clear imbalance and players shouldn't be made to get on their ship/get off their ship/get on their ship/get off their ship repeatedly in an attempt to try to get more appropriate missions and when they do get metals missions, having 'moderate' be the most frequent result isn't desireable, not when there are three rich companion gift missions most every time the list refreshes.

[Kalfear]

Disagree

Companion gift is the most ran missions I have period.

 

Doesnt matter what skill, be it investigation, underwolrd, treasure hunting

 

I go after companion gifts more then anything else (unless im offered a RICH resource mission)

[EnkiduNineEight]

Disagree

Companion gift is the most ran missions I have period.

 

Doesnt matter what skill, be it investigation, underwolrd, treasure hunting

 

I go after companion gifts more then anything else (unless im offered a RICH resource mission)

 

The point being, there are companion gift missions in most every 'special' gathering tree.

Diplomacy? Companion Gifts.

Investigation? Companion Gifts

Treasure Hunting? Companion Gifts.

See the pattern?

 

These missions are available in large quantities.

Who uses Medical items? JUST Bio Analysis. AND you don't need very many Bio items per level.

Who uses researched compounds? Just Armstech, and excepting Barrels which are used by just Rogues and Meat, and for them, maximum needed barrels every other level is 2.

Treasure hunting gets a little tougher, because you'll need 7 enhancements every four levels. But they are cheap to make comparatively.

 

Underworld metals are used in Cybertech and Armoring and you need A LOT every two levels. Up to 8 armour pieces at 4 metals each for 32. Every four levels you need 9 Mods at 4 metals each for another 36. Essentially, not even counting Earpieces. Every two levels you need 50 Underworld trading metals. But there is only one tradeskill that provides them and they are HARD to get because not only do you need a critical gathering skill to get them BUT you have to deal with the rarity of the missions that result in them.

 

There are 'better' fixes. In MY OP for example I note maybe if you made the mods that are crafted with cybertech use ingredients from multiple gathering disciplines.. so Sybertech mods for Sages/Sorcs require treasure hunting mats, Etc.. then you are spreading it out better and lessening the burden but this would take a MAJOR overhauls of the entire cybertech line orf recipes and thus is more complicated a fix.

 

on the otherhand, acknowledging that the Metals are needed by EVERY class, in LARGE quantities, maybe there should be a trimming back of the number of companion gift missions OR at the very least an increased frequency of the top tier of missions AND an increased chance of critical results.

 

Companion Gifts are super easy to come by. They are present in every major gathering skill line. There is no good reason to have them be 3 or 4 of the available missions 90% of the time.

[Brucesim]

UT's companion gifts frequency frustrates me something chronic. I've lost tract of the number of times I've had a screen of 5 companion gift missions and no other mission available. There have actually been times where my UT400 has had no metal mission available at any mission level.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, once you have passed the "only two missions available" threshold, there should always be at least one of each mission available at each level. That way, no matter what, you can always have a useful mission in the list.

 

Cheers

 

 

Bruce

[Zharik]

Or...

 

How about making cloth materials yield something more desirable than the garbage they make now?

 

In fact, how about some crafter love other than Cybertech (armorings, mods and ear pieces), Biochem (implants, med consumables), Artifice (hilts and enhancements), and Armstech (barrels). Synthweaving and Armormech are really left out in the cold. (MK-9 mod kits which SUCK to craft)

[branmakmuffin]

I've posted something like this several years ago.

Several years ago?

 

Just because you don't like gift and cloth missions doesn't mean others don't.

[GatorAndy]

I think the problem is that you're trying to upgrade your armorings every 2 levels. Space it out a bit, leveling is so fast in this game, it's not worth it trying to stay that on top of the gear. Edited April 9, 2014 by GatorAndy

[Starglitter]

Mmm...

 

I have found that when I transition from on eplace to another, it re-spawns the mission list fo rmy skills. So what I do is I go to fleet and bounce back and forth between my starship and fleeet to get my 5 missions of whatever type I want.

 

It would be good, if there were a menu of missions, which you could click on one and then it would open a new window with 5 missions of that class. So in the case of underworld, you have the ones for mats, other for gifts and a third one for something else, thus 3 menu choices. Click gifts and you get a choice of 5 gift acquiring missions.

 

With regard to the material mission, the rela problem is the need to crit to get the mats, remove the crit requirement, and supply will increase and thus price decrease as a result. also have the mission have the mat gaining ones with out needing the mission discovery, if a mission discovery one is used, just quadruple the mat gains for its use, thus remaining appealing.

 

Sue

[Rusah]

On the companion gifts, they only go up to the 49-50 missions on UT. There is not even any companion gifts in the last mission tier level at all, so once you hit them you can get the higher level missions without having companion gifts in them at all, you say you have three characters running ut, and they often have companion gifts three times, firstly that means you do not run the end tier ones cuz they never have companion gifts, and secondly i wish i had your luck. Yesterday i had to zone 3 times to get my 5 companions out on gift ones.

 

Onto what you said about needing a lot of these items every two levels. I am sorry but no you certainly do not. For one you don't have to upgrade every two levels at all, in fact upgrading mods, armor and enhancements every two levels is a waste because during leveling the stat gain is not all that much. Really every 4 levels is more than enough.

 

Upgrading every four levels is easy, you need 95 planetary comms to fully replace all items in mod slots, the blue quality is plenty good enough for flashpoints and questing. So there's a way to upgrade without the metal costs and without spending a single credit on your chars gear. That way no purples needed till you hit level 53, at which point the mission tier required has ZERO companion gift missions

 

If you absolutely have to have purples while leveling, of course that is your choice but the way i listed takes out cost, makes upgrading easy, then when you get to the endgame setup gearing (66 from trainer, or 69, 72, 78 if you have obtained them), you only have cloth and metal missions.

 

Now here's an idea to address it, instead of nerfing those of us that like the companion gifts or cloths how about this. A specialization option for UT. You can keep it as it is now or choose to specialize in gifts, cloth or metal. Once the choice is made it is permanent, the only way to undo it would be to remove and start the skill from scratch. Once specialized a minimum of 3 of the missions are the specialization type, the other two random with at least one rich or better in your chosen specialization.

 

That way no matter which you want you can tailor to your choice, which is a lot fairer that asking for things that others use to be nerfed, yeah a nerf would help you, but also negatively impact others like me. So instead of a nerf how about asuggestion that will work for metal, cloth and gift runners.

[Kalfear]

The point being, there are companion gift missions in most every 'special' gathering tree.

Diplomacy? Companion Gifts.

Investigation? Companion Gifts

Treasure Hunting? Companion Gifts.

See the pattern?

 

These missions are available in large quantities.

Who uses Medical items? JUST Bio Analysis. AND you don't need very many Bio items per level.

Who uses researched compounds? Just Armstech, and excepting Barrels which are used by just Rogues and Meat, and for them, maximum needed barrels every other level is 2.

Treasure hunting gets a little tougher, because you'll need 7 enhancements every four levels. But they are cheap to make comparatively.

 

Underworld metals are used in Cybertech and Armoring and you need A LOT every two levels. Up to 8 armour pieces at 4 metals each for 32. Every four levels you need 9 Mods at 4 metals each for another 36. .

 

So your complaint (as I read it anyways) is you dont have enough UT metal missions offered.

 

Thats ultra easy to fix.

 

ROLL ALTS and put each of them in UT.

 

I currently have the following crafters, see if you notice a patern

 

LvL 55 Trooper = Armor, scavanging, UT (all 450 skill)

Lvl 55 Sage = Artifice-Arceology-Treasure Hunting (all 450 skill)

Lvl 50 Smuggler = Arms. Scavange, Investigation (all 450 skill)

Lvl 50 Knight = Cyber, Scavange, UT (all 450 skill)

Lvl 20 Shadow = Bio, Bioanalysis, Diplomicy (all 450 skill)

 

LvL 53 Bounty Hunter = Bio, Bioanalysis, Diplomicy (all 450 skill)

Lvl 30 Inquiz = Slicing, Scavangeing, UT (all 450 skill)

Lvl 23 Sniper = Slicing, Scavanging, UT (all 450 skill)

Lvl 11 Warrior= Slicing, Bioanalysis, UT (All 450 skill)

Lvl 11 assassin= Slicing, Bioanalysis, UT (all 450 skill)

 

And to answer your next question I only send the none 55s on a single round of missions when I log in and single round of missions when I am logging out (I dont constantly switch over to reque them).

 

Got more then enough high end UT metal to use in my Armor and Cyber crafting and more then enough scavanged metal to use in Arms/Armor/Cyber crafting.

 

It takes maybe 4 hours to get to level 11 WITH OUT using a xp bonus item.

[Brucesim]

The thing is, we shouldn't have to fiddle the system to get the mats. Read my last post. When a UT400 doesn't have a single metal mission available in any screen, there is something wrong with the system. You may think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. It's happened to me more than once.

 

Cheers

 

 

Bruce

[EnkiduNineEight]

And I am also not suggesting getting rid of cloth or gifts. And if I thought they would do it, I would have suggested an actual wholesale revamp of the system so that one set of materials have more utility and necessity than any other set of materials, thus balancing things out.

 

But those solutions require significantly more work for a dev team that is unlikely to make that sort of change given their commentary and past history of dealing with issues.

 

So, suggesting that they _reduce_ the number of Gifts/Cloth missions (Not eliminate them) and increase the frequency of UT Metals missions (and of those, making the Rare, Bountiful options more common) and perhaps slightly increasing the chances of a critical success and the number of mats gathered, they can balance the system a little better while not seriously imparing anyone else.

 

Companion Gifts are the most common available mission and they span all the major gathering skills. A slight reduction in their number under Underworld Trading is not going to significantly diminish their availability.

 

Even choosing to upgrade mods etc every 4 levels, the number of UT mats required to do this are disproportionate to the materials required of any other trade.

 

While you suggest work arounds for UT 'woes' and then bring up complaints about how I'd be 'nerfing' Companion Gifts, there are workarounds for companion gifts as well. The same workarounds suggested for Metals, well you can do that for companion gifts. Additionally, I can't get Underworld Metals by going and completing planetary quests I vastly outlevel and just talking to the quest giver.. all it takes if for me to pull out the appropriate companion and boom, they get an affection plus. I've never had a problem getting all of my companion to 10k affection with minimal effort and occasional gifts purchases. Heck, repeating certain flashpoint solo is a quick and easy way to raise companion affection for very little cost.

 

I am just pointing out, that the volume of materials needed to keep someone optimally equipped, or even if they alternate and wait every four levels, exceeds the materials needed for any other craft and a quick look at the GTN's materials costs bears this out. Scavenging isn't quite as hard as you can get these mats from bots etc as well. But UT mats are by and far the most expensive and least plentiful because the market is artificially tilted away from their availability.

 

I would GLADLY support any effort to make other tradeskills more valuable. I just think that, as already stated, the devs are less inclined to change the whole crafting system when changing random number variables in a single table can be done.

Edited April 10, 2014 by EnkiduNineEight

[branmakmuffin]

So, suggesting that they _reduce_ the number of Gifts/Cloth missions (Not eliminate them) and increase the frequency of UT Metals missions (and of those, making the Rare, Bountiful options more common) and perhaps slightly increasing the chances of a critical success and the number of mats gathered, they can balance the system a little better while not seriously imparing anyone else.

Simply because you would prefer it that way.

 

[Rusah]

So i post a idea that would give you your more metal missions, and instead of commenting on it (agree, disagree counter suggestion ect) you just go on about increasing metal and nerfing the others in every post you make. Clearly you are not interested in a fair system that would give cloth metal and gift runners a fair mission list, you just want it so your chosen item has most of the list and the others get very few.

 

So basically you want yours to be the plentiful missions and shift the shorted missions onto others. If you were really interested in balance you would be willing to discuss a system that would work for all, but you just want yours buffed and the others nerfed into the ground. You claim it is unfair cuz metal is needed more, but you don't seem to have a problem dumping that problem in the lap of others if it benefits you.

 

No chance of a proper discussion of a way to fix the metal mission issues without affecting others as all you care about is getting yours buffed and to hell with everyone else. Reply to this how you like, i am done here.

[MillionsKNives]

I sell a lot of items that use ciridium, and I have 3 characters constantly running underworld missions to accommodate this. I have found that there are 4 missions total that can give you grade 6 underworld metal (ciridium). There are at least 7 companion gift missions at that level. I know this because I have sent my companions on a couple companion gift missions and rezoned to refresh the list and hopefully get more underworld metal missions and what did I find? A full list of 5 companion gift missions. There are more companion gift missions than you could even send your companions out on.

 

It is incredibly frustrating to try and get all 4 underworld metal missions running at once between getting cloth and gift missions. They either need to add a refresh button, make it so that there is at least one of each mission shown, or remove some of those companion missions. I've spent 10-20 minutes before just going between the ship and the fleet to get the 4th mission. I shouldn't have to do that just to get the mission I want.

[Brucesim]

...make it so that there is at least one of each mission shown,---

 

This is what I've been saying for some time.

 

But, my past experience with this forum is that it is so corrosive, that a section of the community will defend the undefendable, and get quite abusive at times if you want the slightest change to anything in the game. God knows you better not suggest any change that, either

1: is totally optional and will not effect them in any way,

2: makes an extraordinary event that you don't like optional.

 

Cheers

 

 

Bruce

[Korithras]

The problem is not metals vs. cloth vs. gifts. The problem is a lack of options to filter out what we don't want to find the missions we do want. This is true for the specialty skills like UT, diplo, etc. as it is for the gathering ones i.e. scavenging, slicing, etc.

 

What we "need" is either of the following:

 

1 - A filter to select the types of missions we actually need, based on skill level or...

2 - A simple master list of all missions available for a particular skill level.

[Brucesim]

... A filter to select the types of missions we actually need, based on skill level or...

 

That wont help if the missions aren't being generated. UT400 has 25 slots....when not one is metals, something is wrong.

 

Cheers

 

 

Bruce

[chillshock]

Are you aware of getting a new set of random picked crew-mission on every major loading screen?

Also, the list resets every time a crew member completes a mission.

 

Like "entering your starship" -> check missions -> "land on fleet" -> check missions again.

Or sending a companion on a 3 minute level 1 mission.

 

It used to reset the whole list every time. So, unless they changed that since I ditched crafting and became rich you can get your crew to only do the metal missions without ever needing to send them anywhere else.

[JamieKirby]

I think there should be a reset button or refresh or whatever you want to call it to get a new set of missions, or they could just make it give 2 metal, 2 cloth and 2 gift missions with every refresh.

 

There have been instances of not getting any metal missions for several zone changes...quite annoying, i am not sure why bioware never added it in, in the first place, i mean its common sense.

[EnkiduNineEight]

So i post a idea that would give you your more metal missions, and instead of commenting on it (agree, disagree counter suggestion ect) you just go on about increasing metal and nerfing the others in every post you make. Clearly you are not interested in a fair system that would give cloth metal and gift runners a fair mission list, you just want it so your chosen item has most of the list and the others get very few.

 

So basically you want yours to be the plentiful missions and shift the shorted missions onto others. If you were really interested in balance you would be willing to discuss a system that would work for all, but you just want yours buffed and the others nerfed into the ground. You claim it is unfair cuz metal is needed more, but you don't seem to have a problem dumping that problem in the lap of others if it benefits you.

 

No chance of a proper discussion of a way to fix the metal mission issues without affecting others as all you care about is getting yours buffed and to hell with everyone else. Reply to this how you like, i am done here.

 

I am sorry I did not address your suggestion.

 

Your suggestion involves a more complex change to the code as presently the system is not set up for specialization. If you set up specialization for UT, you would need to set it up for Diplomacy, Investigation, Treasure Hunting, etc.

 

It is a more complex solution than manipulating random number results t slightly favour one set of missions more than present and another set of missions slightly less than present.

 

So your idea is less workable and implementable and requires more effort AND it removes the ability to get certain types of missions and I AT NO TIME suggested _every mission should be metal_. I have never suggested that we get rid of gifts or cloths missions, or that I didn't want any at all. What I didn't want was very fequesntly having 3-5 companion gift missions, nearly as frequently having them all be 'rare' mission types, and then having an abundant cloth and a moderate metal.

 

Slightly increasing the frequency of metal missions and increasing the odds of those metal missions that occur from being moderate to abundant, rare and bountiful is not asking for a 'nerf' to the other mission types. They will still exist, you will still get them. But if you are taking UT because it has the most plentiful companion gifts this as well suggests that there is poor game design involved because the gathering skill that has the highest need for Materials every 2 or 4 levels, however you want to put it, has the least amount of those missions in favour of missions that are plentiful in every major gathering skill.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Are you aware of getting a new set of random picked crew-mission on every major loading screen?

Also, the list resets every time a crew member completes a mission.

 

Like "entering your starship" -> check missions -> "land on fleet" -> check missions again.

Or sending a companion on a 3 minute level 1 mission.

 

It used to reset the whole list every time. So, unless they changed that since I ditched crafting and became rich you can get your crew to only do the metal missions without ever needing to send them anywhere else.

 

This has been addressed multiple times.

Its a bad system to make people have to zone back and forth and hope to get the mission they want. Its a needless waste of a players time AND the mission frequency is still such that the majority of the time you still get a list of missions that are predisposed to being companion gift missions.

 

It may be an acceptable solution were UT Metal missions to come up more frequently but they do not. And when they do hit, more often than not they are moderate or abundant. Bountiful or Rare missions are much less frequent where-as it is not uncommon for me to log in, have 3-5 Companion gift missions with at least 3 of them being 'rare' missions zone, check again and have the same basic results but this time its 4 rare companion gift missions.

 

The frequency at which UT Metal Missions are provided is artificially low considering the demand for the materials they produce. There is no other tradeskill gathered material that is used in such quantity (EVERY CLASS uses them for mods, armour, ear, etc.. except for Treasure Hunting for making Enhancements, which you need fewer of, no other tradeskill has even close to the same demand for its materials) and it is not unreasonable to suggest that they slightly increase their frequency and/or their returns.

 

Companion Gift missions will still exist, will still be represented in a significant way and all the things being suggested to 'help' someone seeking metals you can also say.. why don't you do that to get your companion gifts.

 

IF you find needing to zone repeatedly to change your list of missions an inconvenience then, don't suggest it as a solution for others.

 

Companion gifts especially are significantly overrepresented in the list of available missions, no matter how many times you zone.

 

There are multiple 'better' ways to resolve this issue. I would love it if I thought BioWare would be willing to make some of those sorts of changes but evidence is that they will not change the core system they have in place presently. As such, my suggestion remains to change something within the core system that requires the least amount of effort for the devs. Updating a random number and table lookup so that is slightly favours one existing category more than present while slightly reducing another category from present values and then slightly adjusting rate of return/chance of critical success with one category of the missions available.

 

This slightly reduces the number of gift/cloth missions that appear, slightly increases the number of UT Metal missions that appear and when a metal mission is performed, your chances of ciritical success would be slightly higher than present and your number of materials gathered would be slightly higher.

 

It creates the smallest level of impact, requires the least amount of code changes, _does not_ change the core mechanics, and thus is the most 'elegant' albeit perhaps not the most preferable solution to the identified problem.

 

If I had my druthers I would overhaul the entire system. I would likely change the mats needed for Cybertech to have them more accurately reflect needing specialized materials from the gathering tree that best represents the class attribute that would be benefitted (same with Enhancements in Artifice). If the Cybertech needed UT for Aim, Diplomacy for Wisdom, Investigation for Cunning, Treasure Hunting for Strength materials, then the demand for materials would be more spread out and artificial rarity of any one of these doesn not create a signficiant economic imbalance.

 

As it is, the artificial rarity of UT missions creates a significantly different supply/demand model for UT Materials AND these materials are the most in demand by the community in general as they are _necessary_ for every class and every player if they are using slottable equipment.

Edited April 11, 2014 by EnkiduNineEight