Marauder Top 3 Answers!

[Altheran]

One thing that might be really neat is stun immunity during Gore. Still vulnerable to roots, knockbacks, pulls, etc. Raises the skill floor required to shut down the spec without raising it to the same level required to shut down Rage. This would also give Carnage a bit more utility in that it would sometimes be advantageous to pop Gore just for the immunity (e.g. while walking through a Fire Trap).

 

That would be nearly no different from a total CC imunity given how Carnage Marauders can root people.

[KeyboardNinja]

That would be nearly no different from a total CC imunity given how Carnage Marauders can root people.

 

Not really, no. All three of the ranged classes have knockbacks, as do two of the melee classes. Three of the melee specs, all three healer specs and all but three of the ranged specs have escapes that are root-immune. Even for the specs which don't qualify under these criteria, some element of control has been removed from Carnage since they would need to burn their root immediately prior to Gore, rather than using it at a potentially more opportune moment.

[Altheran]

Not really, no. All three of the ranged classes have knockbacks, as do two of the melee classes. Three of the melee specs, all three healer specs and all but three of the ranged specs have escapes that are root-immune. Even for the specs which don't qualify under these criteria, some element of control has been removed from Carnage since they would need to burn their root immediately prior to Gore, rather than using it at a potentially more opportune moment.

 

Technically, yes most have one way to get out of this. But since gore is off-GCD and barely noticable, and since the escape tool is rare because unique, how to properly counter that ?

Use Massacre outside of the burst window, people will panic and bump/deroot because they'll mistake that for the burst.

Root them, and try to force them to facetank a marauder, they'll panic and bump/deroot.

 

Do whatever you want, but they won't wait calmly that you use this barely noticable ability to use their one and only escape that works during Carnage's deadly burst. Moreso that normally people should use this kind of escapes before the hard CC they may have because the longer CD make them "a last resort".

 

So yes there's a counter in theory. But practice has great chances to show the Carnage Marauder as a nearly unstoppable beast.

[TheCourier-]

Wow. The answer to the annihilation question is basically "annihilation spec sucks, but don't expect a buff in the near future".

[waterboytkd]

The good news is snipers aren't getting god-mode buff. So at least they're not pouring salt into our UR wound.

 

As far as Carnage is concerned, the only thing I'd like is a QoL change to Slaughter (like, it can't proc while Gore is off cooldown). That's it. Otherwise, I feel the spec is in a good place.

 

Rage...I don't know. Has anyone tested to see if the 30% AoE damage reducers affect Smash damage if you're the primary target? Because if they do, anyone who says Rage is still going to be the best burst spec for Maras is out of their mind. It's already considered below Carnage in the single-target burst realm. Against one opponent, it's ONLY redeeming quality is that it's on-demand, whereas Carnage is RNG-based. Without its AoE damage, I don't know why anyone would run it over Carnage.

 

DEAR DEVS: If the change to Rage is sticking around, could you at least make sure AoE reducers won't apply for the primary target of the attack?

[Dedrayge]

For PvP, rage will probably still be a better choice than annihilation. However, carnage would be the absolute best choice. Not only does it have some good burst but it has good sustain damage to consistently pressure a target. This good sustain is very helpful in between burst phases. Despite rage's on demand burst, it lacks any sort of single target sustain damage to truly pressure a target.

 

I've torn through people a hell of a lot faster with carnage than I have rage.

 

I would also expect to see the majority, if not all, juggs moving away from rage into vengeance. So really, after 2.7 hits, the only reason for any jugg or marauder to go rage is for the occasional regular WZ or some super fast dailies.

 

 

And despite BW's issues with strong AoE attacks being part of a rotation, they've completely managed to ignore AP flame thrower, which they've gone so far as to increase it's crit chance and chain lightning which as of 2.7 will be seeing more insta casts. Both of which also come with added utility to keep players in one spot.

 

Death field to a lesser extent...

 

Rage smash is definitely a bigger issue...But it really is hypocritical to make an issue out of only two strong AoEs - OS being the other - and ignoring the other ones...Ones which really do have some easy fixes.

 

The OS nerf is at least a part of a plan...This rage nerf isn't and coming off as lazy...I mean, they admitted the spec is broken and this is their solution? Seriously, what the **** is this ****...Just turn the spec into a proper single target burst spec which people have bloody well been requesting for well over a year.

 

 

I also think it's kind of wasteful that the guardian questions are going to have to again address the future of rage/focus.

[Sappharan]

The changes made to Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force were necessary to bring Marauders/Sentinels down a notch and give other classes and enemy NPCs a fighting chance against a Marauder/Sentinel that is being backed by a healer. The negative impact these changes have had on Annihilation/Watchman self-healing is an unfortunate side effect. We might consider making a change to allow Annihilation/Watchman healing to thrive while Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force is active, but due to engine limitations it would probably not be possible to have it work as described in your question.

 

I have a question. Has any other class suffered a debuff because of synergy?

 

You overbuffed Focus/Rage spec and, because of whining and the putative "mandate of the people", you debuffed--wait, did you do anything too draconian?--oh yes, you debuffed SENTINELS AND MARAUDERS because of ONE spec, but left Guardians and Juggernauts alone. You'll argue that it was because the class was too strong with healer support, but curiously the CLASS was not a problem until Focus/Rage garnered so much attention due to your (plural) blundering. Now you tell us that restoring some of the core ability of Watchman/Annihilation during UR/gimpedbtf is impractical because the ENGINE has limitations. You have admitted inability to indemnify Watchman properly because of engine limitations. And your response is, in essence, "oops". That's nice.

 

Next, you gutted Focs/Rage savagely enough that you actually repealed some of the debuffs on test. Overbuff the spec to ridiculous levels, blame the WHOLE CLASS for being too durable because of synergy (I disagree categorically) while "unintentionally" affecting Watchman/Annihilation twofold when no one was complaining about the latter spec (or Combat, come to that) at the time.

 

??????

 

Do you think about these debuffs or do you just debuff first and ask questions later? Whatever you answer yourself or us, it does not seem like it sometimes.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Sappharan

[Vodrin]

Not really, no. All three of the ranged classes have knockbacks, as do two of the melee classes. Three of the melee specs, all three healer specs and all but three of the ranged specs have escapes that are root-immune. Even for the specs which don't qualify under these criteria, some element of control has been removed from Carnage since they would need to burn their root immediately prior to Gore, rather than using it at a potentially more opportune moment.

 

Trust me. CC immunity during gore would be extremely overpowered and would result in a nerf no more than a patch cycle after. Giving charges of full armor penetration with a longer duration (maybe 15 seconds) is much less OP and would still accomplish the same thing.

[Leafy_Bug]

At this point in time, the developers need to re-evaluate watchman a bit and realize that the more they design content around burst, the more DOT specs will suffer. Do not get me wrong, I am in no way asking for combat nerfs, I am simply trying to emphasize, yet again, the fact that I need 1 minute to start chucking out real numbers in watchman. This also depends on that gosh darn mindsear which for the love of god l do not understand lately. I giggle when under 30% i use two abilities with a 66 % chance to reset cauterize yet I don't hear 'hey'. I am aware 66% is not 100% but something happened to mindsear as it has become very unreliable.

 

 

If Bioware does decide to change Watchman please stop adding merciless slash stacks. It is not the way to go. I was joking around with a very good sentinel the other day that in patch 4.0 we will have 10 stacks of merciless slash to aim for . A very simple buff would be to give us the 7.5 % crit back like in the good old days. Flip momentum with swift slash in the focus tree. With one stone you increase the damage of two specs. Ataru gets a straight buff and watchman a major buff in the 30% phase. It is not very nice when I see 1 or two dispatch crits on most bosses and none on the damn dummy. I have had parses where 16 dispatches and none crit!

 

 

For any HP level above 30% watchman can get a buff from higher dot damage or even a slight change to how merciless slash works. Attach 4 instant stacks to valorous call to avoid the long ramp times and decrease the influence of our offhand weapon in this ability. We miss too much with it and when non-crit merciless slash is, for the lack of a better word, useless.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Leafy_Bug

[Vodrin]

 

 

For any HP level above 30% watchman can get a buff from higher dot damage or even a slight change to how merciless slash works. Attach 4 instant stacks to valorous call to avoid the long ramp times and decrease the influence of our offhand weapon in this ability. We miss too much with it and when non-crit merciless slash is, for the lack of a better word, useless.

 

I have a full obroan sentinel and did a stint running watchman this past week. Ramp up was the largest issue I saw with the spec, along with a few times that ops were cleansing DoT's with a roll. Damage was actually pretty good and I could reliably kill just about anything once I had stacks using Zen with DoT's and merciless with dispatch. The problem always was building stacks quickly enough through getting hit with CC's. Juyo less so than merciless. Being able to stack both with valorous call, or creating other mechanisms to increase stacks quickly would help a lot.

 

After we had a way to frontload stacks we could evaluate the need to make DoT stacks uncleansable or buff damage further.

 

Once that is done we could evaluate the need for other damage increases.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Vodrin

[ParagonAX]

(Paraphrase from OP)

 

Rage burst > caranage burst

 

LOL

[JediMasterSLC]

Wow. The answer to the annihilation question is basically "annihilation spec sucks, but don't expect a buff in the near future".

 

Yeah that's what I got from it as well. But hey, it's only been underpowered for a year and half, nbd.

[TheCourier-]

At least Bioware sort of admitted that annihilation spec might need a "boost". Hopefully that "boost" is a 5% damage buff and 2% self healing per critted dot tick.

 

Undying rage should still be made to not penalize a healer for healing a marauder while the marauder has undying rage on.

Edited March 14, 2014 by TheCourier-

[waterboytkd]

I have a question. Has any other class suffered a debuff because of synergy?

 

You overbuffed Focus/Rage spec and, because of whining and the putative "mandate of the people", you debuffed--wait, did you do anything too draconian?--oh yes, you debuffed SENTINELS AND MARAUDERS because of ONE spec, but left Guardians and Juggernauts alone. You'll argue that it was because the class was too strong with healer support, but curiously the CLASS was not a problem until Focus/Rage garnered so much attention due to your (plural) blundering. Now you tell us that restoring some of the core ability of Watchman/Annihilation during UR/gimpedbtf is impractical because the ENGINE has limitations. You have admitted inability to indemnify Watchman properly because of engine limitations. And your response is, in essence, "oops". That's nice.

 

Next, you gutted Focs/Rage savagely enough that you actually repealed some of the debuffs on test. Overbuff the spec to ridiculous levels, blame the WHOLE CLASS for being too durable because of synergy (I disagree categorically) while "unintentionally" affecting Watchman/Annihilation twofold when no one was complaining about the latter spec (or Combat, come to that) at the time.

 

??????

 

Do you think about these debuffs or do you just debuff first and ask questions later? Whatever you answer yourself or us, it does not seem like it sometimes.

 

This. I've tried to make this point numerous times: that there's a crap-ton of stuff in this game that, in PvP, gets completely busted when you combine it with a healer.

 

The nerf to SENTINELS and MARAUDERS as a whole were done because of one specific spec. What annoys me about it, though, is that when we got the chance to bring it up to them, they basically told us they're not reviewing it.

 

As it stands, UR/GbtF is a decent panic button in PvP, especially in 1v1 situations, but it is almost completely worthless in PvE as a panic button.

[TheCourier-]

If Bioware had given the top 3 marauder questions' answers to the sorcerer community, there would probably have been lots of complaining at Bioware. It's kind of sad that so few players play marauder, that Bioware can ignore the class, and get away with leaving the class with only 1 viable PVP spec.

[oofalong]

If Bioware had given the top 3 marauder questions' answers to the sorcerer community, there would probably have been lots of complaining at Bioware. It's kind of sad that so few players play marauder, that Bioware can ignore the class, and get away with leaving the class with only 1 viable PVP spec.

 

So we need more drama queens here? I think Smashers are the most maligned group out there so I am not surprised by the lack of vocal Marauders/Sentinels. For some reason the rest of the community seems to take solace in the misery of Marauders.

 

Don't get me wrong, I DO think Smash was OP. Still, the answers BW gave were not very insightful. Their lack of help/direction implies two things:

 

1. Every PvE Marauder should be rolling Dotsmash - if you are not, you are not reaching your full damage potential.
   
2. There are no beneficial changes coming for PvP so continue to play whatever spec you were playing. If Carnage worked for you keep at it. If Smash was your cup of tea, stick with it, but don't expect to do as much damage. If Annihilation was your thing, you are doing it wrong.
   

 

It seems changes to every other class include beneficial as well as adverse things, but we just get nerfs (This could be a perception problem though.)

[MrRuck]

We are not completely satisfied with how Annihilation/Watchman performs. In a vacuum, where no movement is required and the stars align, Annihilation/Watchman is capable of dishing out some massive sustained damage, but that is not the world in which SWTOR gets played. We do intend to make some changes to Annihilation/Watchman in order to improve its performance in both PvE and PvP, but we are not ready to discuss any of the specifics. As we work to improve the performance of Annihilation, we will definitely consider the suggestions made in your question!

Hope this doesn't mean the removal of the ramp up playstyle but rather a buff to mobility (and burst damage). A 15% passive speed buff would go a long way; we're no less melee (4m) dependant than Carnage & Vengeance.

Edited March 18, 2014 by MrRuck

[TheCourier-]

Seriously, annihilation spec's self healing being buffed wouldn't completely ruin PVE, since in a HM DF or DP annihilation spec's self healing still wouldn't keep a marauder alive by themselves. The mobs on Gate Commander Draxus on SM do around 5000+ damage each when they explode, the fingers on Brontes hit hard, etc. Buffing annihilation spec's self healing would help massively in PVP.

 

A 5% DPS buff for annihilation spec would cause some marauders to actually run annihiliation spec, instead of dotsmash and carnage specs (passive 2% per critted heal self healing and slightly higher damage than dotsmash would be a reason to run annihilation spec instead of dotsmash).

 

Right now, annihilation spec is significantly hurt by some fights were keeping annihilation stacks is very difficult to do, and even if a marauder keeps his annihilation stacks at 4, his damage is on par with carnage spec.

Edited March 18, 2014 by TheCourier-

[Rasen]

If Bioware had given the top 3 marauder questions' answers to the sorcerer community, there would probably have been lots of complaining at Bioware. It's kind of sad that so few players play marauder, that Bioware can ignore the class, and get away with leaving the class with only 1 viable PVP spec.

 

Worst comment ever. I say this all the time. If you say Sentinels/Marauders are underpowered or underplayed you should never speak again. Why don't you get off the forums for once and go in game and ask in general how many play a sent or marauder? Posts like these disgust me and I'm speaking as a Sentinel main player here. I kick rear ends in PvP with combat and focus. Devs clearly see Watchman needs help which means eventually all 3 I will kick rear with.

 

I need a shower to wash off the filth. Oh and btw most people who play this game don't even know the forums exist. Again go log on the game and ask everyone their opinion on anything going on in the forums.

[Raansu]

Worst comment ever. I say this all the time. If you say Sentinels/Marauders are underpowered or underplayed you should never speak again. Why don't you get off the forums for once and go in game and ask in general how many play a sent or marauder? Posts like these disgust me and I'm speaking as a Sentinel main player here. I kick rear ends in PvP with combat and focus. Devs clearly see Watchman needs help which means eventually all 3 I will kick rear with.

 

I need a shower to wash off the filth. Oh and btw most people who play this game don't even know the forums exist. Again go log on the game and ask everyone their opinion on anything going on in the forums.

 

Experience is subjective. Personally I see way more sorcerers and mercenaries than I do marauders. And with the constant nerfs lately I've actually been seeing even less marauders.

[KarethRiker]

Long time sentinel here, can't agree more with Annihlation comments. The ramp is just too long and the self-heal nerf from long ago, makes no sense with current class balance or content. I also agree with the Undying Rage comments, it's really hard on healers especially in regs when you're not on voice comms. In premades I tell my healer when I'm going to pop it.

 

For Carnage I would like better Gore protection. Nothing is worse than proccing Slaughter on your leap at the start of a fight. In NiM that one proc could mean the difference between a wipe and a clear (it sure did on a few Dread Guard pulls pre-nerf last time).

 

I get the crying about the Smash nerf. But here's the thing, Smash is very powerful in the best hands, but there are tons of mediocre players in WZs. For every 1M dmg regs match I get on my Smasher there are 2-3 other sents/maras who are putting up only 400K or so. So personally I don't think the spec is overpowered. Is it easy to play, yes, I can't dispute that, but you're in the thick of it and you get picked on by opposing teams. You're utility is also limited with no node denial, self-heals, or stealth/stealth protection and plenty of talent trees having an AOE damage reduction. I see many more sorcs putting up big numbers in regs than marauders. PTs are just devastating in AP with the slow AOE. In ranked matches, good players stand apart to avoid the AOE bringing skill into play as a counter to the class.

 

I know the ship has sailed and I'm fine playing Carnage in WZ, but I do think we as a community should be a little more critical of the claims that Smash is simply OP.

[Bugattiboy]

So the answers are pretty much identical to the ones on the Sentinel forums.

 

"We know your class is underpowered and we don't care solely due to the fact because your melee." Or to paraphrase Don Mattrick, "We have an playstyle for people that like damage and it's called range".

Edited March 27, 2014 by Bugattiboy

[Adaliaya]

Two words, nothing more.

 

Buff. Watchman.

 

Also why do for example Sage and Gunslinger have 3 active abilies via skill tree and Sentinel only 2? I think they should be given for example:

Watchman: Valiant's leap. Sentinel leaps to other side of target, dealing immediately 3000 dmg and other 6000 over 6 seconds (would add some mobility for pvp)

Focus: Blade Dance. Two seconds channeled attack that deals 9000 dmg to up to 5 targets closer than 5 meters to Sentinel. AoE capacity.

 

Combat could use a little buff indeed too.

 

And yeah, there was more words:D

[Vodrin]

So the answers are pretty much identical to the ones on the Sentinel forums.

 

"We know your class is underpowered and we don't care solely due to the fact because your melee." Or to paraphrase Don Mattrick, "We have an playstyle for people that like damage and it's called range".

 

That's really not what they said. They basically said that carnage/combat is not underpowered and is performing well therefore they do not wish to change it to make it more noob friendly. That part I agree with.

 

They also said watchman/annihilation is underpowered in PvP due to ramp up time on damage and they are considering options to buff it. This I also agree with, although they may be looking at the wrong buff.

 

They feel that focus/rage is still fine post nerf despite the AoE reduction and have no plans to give it a PvP buff. This I disagree about as I think some changes need to be made to improve sustained single target damage for the spec to perform as intended.

[arkzehhh]

Hey everyone,

 

Below you will find the answers to your top 3, relayed from the Combat Team. Thanks!

 

According to the response given in the Jedi Sentinel forums, the development team stated that Annihilation was intended to be the superior spec for sustained DPS. However, this does not hold true when comparing Annihilation to Carnage and hybrid DPS OPs parses. This discrepancy is due to Annihilation's lack of on demand DPS required with target switches. The developer response in the Jedi Sentinel forums regarding Annihilator stacks and buff duration promises to address some of these issues. However, the community feels that additional changes are required. For example, Annihilate could be improved to do bonus damage on bleeding targets or apply a separate bleed. Furthermore, Annihilation DoTs could feature better protection against cleanses and/or provide better options for application/reapplication, such as a bonus effect added to the Pulverize/Rupture reset mechanic (i.e. Annihilate stacks, cooldown reduction, reduced rage costs, crit rating boost etc).

 

Does the development team believe that the design of Annihilation as a sustained DPS spec is performing as expected, especially in a PVE/PVP environment that favors burst damage and target switches?

 

We are not completely satisfied with how Annihilation/Watchman performs. In a vacuum, where no movement is required and the stars align, Annihilation/Watchman is capable of dishing out some massive sustained damage, but that is not the world in which SWTOR gets played. We do intend to make some changes to Annihilation/Watchman in order to improve its performance in both PvE and PvP, but we are not ready to discuss any of the specifics. As we work to improve the performance of Annihilation, we will definitely consider the suggestions made in your question!

 

Any idea when these Annihilation 'fixes' will be implemented? A start would be a fix to the ramp-up time as you have mentioned, but more importantly than that.. make the bleeds undispellable... because as it is you're better playing RNGCarnage spec then trying to make Annihilation spec work outside of Ranked WZ's.

 

Sound's like some decent idea's to remove the RNG from Carnage, not for or against this tbh.

 

Rage nerf's were needed, nothing to say about those changes.. they've been long over due.

Edited April 1, 2014 by arkzehhh